Lamia Ambuscade V1

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Lamia Ambuscade V1
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 Leviathan.Celebrindal
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By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2021-01-19 12:35:46
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Odin.Karizo said: »
Asura.Gotenn said: »
What were you doing to get your JR numbers that high? I had 2 cors, and a bard, and my JR's were only 17-18k, with 13-14k crits

I've found GEO to be much more effective this Ambu.

COR Last Stands with GEO buff can hit 40k on Skathi (which while we're on this, are we sure Freyja is the one weak to piercing? I feel like Skathi takes more damage from Last Stand than Freyja lol).

I bet his JR can go even higher with GEO =P

Edit: GEO without BRD, for clarification

I think the Freyja just has a higher DEF, and all are weak to piercing.
 Fenrir.Kaldaek
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By Fenrir.Kaldaek 2021-01-19 14:10:32
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Has anyone played around with one-handed war using farsha this month? Not sure if the whitedmg is competitive.
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By Odin.Karizo 2021-01-19 15:36:03
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Fenrir.Kaldaek said: »
Has anyone played around with one-handed war using farsha this month? Not sure if the whitedmg is competitive.

Not 100% sure what your specific question is, but melee in general makes much quicker work of this month's Ambuscade mobs than any ranged job can dream of.

The question boils down to, do you have godlike reflex to turn for the dances lol (and super godlike to tank all 3 on PLD while holding enmity against R15 Gandiva)
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By SimonSes 2021-01-20 04:58:48
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Odin.Karizo said: »
Fenrir.Kaldaek said: »
Has anyone played around with one-handed war using farsha this month? Not sure if the whitedmg is competitive.

Not 100% sure what your specific question is, but melee in general makes much quicker work of this month's Ambuscade mobs than any ranged job can dream of.

The question boils down to, do you have godlike reflex to turn for the dances lol (and super godlike to tank all 3 on PLD while holding enmity against R15 Gandiva)

Idk, if Melee needs to frequently turn and RNGs can do constant damage, I dont feel like melee could beat RNGs by much or at all.

On Demhar video killing time was 3min, but 2nd RNG did half of Demhar's damage and Demhar was using Gandiva (Armageddon should be better) and COR damage doesnt look good too, so probably not bis either. On video with 2xCOR + RNG (with Arma this time, but /DRG), killing time took ~2min, but again I dont think thats optimal. Optimal would be COR + 2RNGs using Arma and /war and WS only at 2000+ This should go under 2min killing time (I could be wrong tho) and the fastest melee killing time I have seen is those JPs using 2 MNKs and mewing lullaby and it was 1:38min.
 Fenrir.Kaldaek
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By Fenrir.Kaldaek 2021-01-20 06:48:25
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It's just the 2 gaze moves and the aoe charm that you have to turn right?
 Asura.Wotasu
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By Asura.Wotasu 2021-01-20 07:13:58
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This is what I have in react.
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 Shiva.Arislan
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By Shiva.Arislan 2021-01-20 08:32:16
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SimonSes said: »
Idk, if Melee needs to frequently turn and RNGs can do constant damage, I dont feel like melee could beat RNGs by much or at all.

On Demhar video killing time was 3min, but 2nd RNG did half of Demhar's damage and Demhar was using Gandiva (Armageddon should be better) and COR damage doesnt look good too, so probably not bis either. On video with 2xCOR + RNG (with Arma this time, but /DRG), killing time took ~2min, but again I dont think thats optimal. Optimal would be COR + 2RNGs using Arma and /war and WS only at 2000+ This should go under 2min killing time (I could be wrong tho) and the fastest melee killing time I have seen is those JPs using 2 MNKs and mewing lullaby and it was 1:38min.

3x COR should theoretically beat everything riding fulltime cascading tripshots and Arma R15 AM3.

Problem is, good luck finding ranged optimized CORs these days, with Arma, and a tank who could hold hate off all that.
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By SimonSes 2021-01-20 11:41:34
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Shiva.Arislan said: »
SimonSes said: »
Idk, if Melee needs to frequently turn and RNGs can do constant damage, I dont feel like melee could beat RNGs by much or at all.

On Demhar video killing time was 3min, but 2nd RNG did half of Demhar's damage and Demhar was using Gandiva (Armageddon should be better) and COR damage doesnt look good too, so probably not bis either. On video with 2xCOR + RNG (with Arma this time, but /DRG), killing time took ~2min, but again I dont think thats optimal. Optimal would be COR + 2RNGs using Arma and /war and WS only at 2000+ This should go under 2min killing time (I could be wrong tho) and the fastest melee killing time I have seen is those JPs using 2 MNKs and mewing lullaby and it was 1:38min.

3x COR should theoretically beat everything riding fulltime cascading tripshots and Arma R15 AM3.

Problem is, good luck finding ranged optimized CORs these days, with Arma, and a tank who could hold hate off all that.

I actually wonder if COR can beat RNG. RNG has massive offensive advantages over COR for Arma build.

1. 16% higher max pdif (with JSE neck)
2. Velocity shot adding at least 11% DPS
3. Sharpshot boosting cap of racc to 99% (only 1 min duration but its a lot in zerg like this)
4. Probably the most important +53% crit damage
5. I guess Barrage can also be consider as an advantage in putting AM3 up.

I dont think all of that can be beat by just triple shot being better than double shot.

EDIT: I actually wrote this ~4 hours ago, but I havent posted, because wanted to make calc for COR white damage, similar that I did for RNG, but Im a little confused, so moving this to COR thread.
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By Odin.Karizo 2021-01-20 12:09:18
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Shiva.Arislan said: »
SimonSes said: »
Idk, if Melee needs to frequently turn and RNGs can do constant damage, I dont feel like melee could beat RNGs by much or at all.

On Demhar video killing time was 3min, but 2nd RNG did half of Demhar's damage and Demhar was using Gandiva (Armageddon should be better) and COR damage doesnt look good too, so probably not bis either. On video with 2xCOR + RNG (with Arma this time, but /DRG), killing time took ~2min, but again I dont think thats optimal. Optimal would be COR + 2RNGs using Arma and /war and WS only at 2000+ This should go under 2min killing time (I could be wrong tho) and the fastest melee killing time I have seen is those JPs using 2 MNKs and mewing lullaby and it was 1:38min.

3x COR should theoretically beat everything riding fulltime cascading tripshots and Arma R15 AM3.

Problem is, good luck finding ranged optimized CORs these days, with Arma, and a tank who could hold hate off all that.
Shiva.Arislan said: »
SimonSes said: »
Idk, if Melee needs to frequently turn and RNGs can do constant damage, I dont feel like melee could beat RNGs by much or at all.

On Demhar video killing time was 3min, but 2nd RNG did half of Demhar's damage and Demhar was using Gandiva (Armageddon should be better) and COR damage doesnt look good too, so probably not bis either. On video with 2xCOR + RNG (with Arma this time, but /DRG), killing time took ~2min, but again I dont think thats optimal. Optimal would be COR + 2RNGs using Arma and /war and WS only at 2000+ This should go under 2min killing time (I could be wrong tho) and the fastest melee killing time I have seen is those JPs using 2 MNKs and mewing lullaby and it was 1:38min.

3x COR should theoretically beat everything riding fulltime cascading tripshots and Arma R15 AM3.

Problem is, good luck finding ranged optimized CORs these days, with Arma, and a tank who could hold hate off all that.

I would honestly love to see a video of that lol. Now if only you're on Odin so that Ultime guy can tank 3 lamia with godlike reflexes while 3 R15 Arma COR wail on it.
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By Odin.Karizo 2021-01-20 12:25:08
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SimonSes said: »
Odin.Karizo said: »
Fenrir.Kaldaek said: »
Has anyone played around with one-handed war using farsha this month? Not sure if the whitedmg is competitive.

Not 100% sure what your specific question is, but melee in general makes much quicker work of this month's Ambuscade mobs than any ranged job can dream of.

The question boils down to, do you have godlike reflex to turn for the dances lol (and super godlike to tank all 3 on PLD while holding enmity against R15 Gandiva)

Idk, if Melee needs to frequently turn and RNGs can do constant damage, I dont feel like melee could beat RNGs by much or at all.

On Demhar video killing time was 3min, but 2nd RNG did half of Demhar's damage and Demhar was using Gandiva (Armageddon should be better) and COR damage doesnt look good too, so probably not bis either. On video with 2xCOR + RNG (with Arma this time, but /DRG), killing time took ~2min, but again I dont think thats optimal. Optimal would be COR + 2RNGs using Arma and /war and WS only at 2000+ This should go under 2min killing time (I could be wrong tho) and the fastest melee killing time I have seen is those JPs using 2 MNKs and mewing lullaby and it was 1:38min.

Yeah the JP video utilized the breif window of penance chi blast + lullaby to avoid turning, since if u need to turn it's either down to godlike reflex or react, and with react i don't think your dmg will suffer much since it's so fast (maybe?). I have yet to try it with react melee and just going nuts on them lol.
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By SimonSes 2021-01-20 12:30:11
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Odin.Karizo said: »
I would honestly love to see a video of that lol. Now if only you're on Odin so that Ultime guy can tank 3 lamia with godlike reflexes while 3 R15 Arma COR wail on it.

Another reason why RNGs are better. RNG doesnt need Preludes really, so you can Dirge them. RNG with Dirge has capped -50 enmity in both max dmg AM3 double shot set and Last Stand set. Rng also has Camouflage, which I think works beyond enmity cap, but Im not sure. Decoy shot cant be applied in Lamia ambuscade I think.
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 Odin.Karizo
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By Odin.Karizo 2021-01-20 12:40:51
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SimonSes said: »
Odin.Karizo said: »
I would honestly love to see a video of that lol. Now if only you're on Odin so that Ultime guy can tank 3 lamia with godlike reflexes while 3 R15 Arma COR wail on it.

Another reason why RNGs are better. RNG doesnt need Preludes really, so you can Dirge them. RNG with Dirge has capped -50 enmity in both max dmg AM3 double shot set and Last Stand set. Rng also has Camouflage, which I think works beyond enmity cap, but Im not sure. Decoy shot cant be applied in Lamia ambuscade I think.

I think you can pull off Decoy Shot, since the gaze is 15 range. you probably need to adjust positions though, but then again you'd probably only need to use it on the first one, since tank has time to build enmity on the latter two.
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 Leviathan.Celebrindal
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By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2021-01-20 12:44:37
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SimonSes said: »
Odin.Karizo said: »
I would honestly love to see a video of that lol. Now if only you're on Odin so that Ultime guy can tank 3 lamia with godlike reflexes while 3 R15 Arma COR wail on it.

Another reason why RNGs are better. RNG doesnt need Preludes really, so you can Dirge them. RNG with Dirge has capped -50 enmity in both max dmg AM3 double shot set and Last Stand set. Rng also has Camouflage, which I think works beyond enmity cap, but Im not sure. Decoy shot cant be applied in Lamia ambuscade I think.

Decoy is too dangerous to use this month- the benefits from it are going to end up being at best maybe 20 seconds saved in an already short fight? Not worth the added risk in my book. I still view using shooting strats as something we do for both quality damage but moreso safety.

I can see Camouflage being very effective with the Empyrean Weapons, but please- if you're gonna pop Camo, don't immediately use a WS and lose it! Ride your white damage! Otherwise, you just popped a /ja for 1-3 shots and then lose it. Considering how junk the SC dmg is this month, you're not losing much if you have a high end Empy Aftermath TP set by riding TP phase+Camo vs WS every chance you get.

As I know many who have done 3 COR setups know, the benefit comes from getting 5+ minutes straight of Tripleshot, not from the damage to each individual shot or WS. But a few things that always need to be in the back of your mind when doing this:

-you're gonna run out of bullets on COR. The lack of natural Recycle starts showing up bigtime in this type of scenario!
-Hate starts to become an issue if you can't ride Wildfire as a WS. I go COR/DRG in these types of moments, but this month popping that High Jump means that the Lamia has already turned towards you and the danger moment already exists before you get hit by the mob you just pulled hate on.

Once again, I'll espouse the benefits of RNG using Annihilator (any followers of the Ranger forum/sticky know I talk about the love affair I have with that weapon at R15 constantly).

-You will chain with the Fomalhaut or Armageddon CORs' Last Stands even without their Aftermaths up by using Coronach, which you can spam at 1k TP for full damage, and constantly keep your personal Enmity down.
-The +ranged attack part of Anni's aftermath means you can gear more Malignance gear and take advantage of the +PDL on neck and gear during white damage phase and still be at attack cap with just buffs, which shows up with those double-damage Relic AM procs.
-And lastly, you can still produce quality Last Stands when your TP overflow makes it too enticing to resist using in lieu of Coronach.

I think in Dehmar's video, he's just a lot stronger RNG in general when comparing his damage to the other RNG in the video using Annihilator, and a direct DPS comparison isn't reliable.
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By SimonSes 2021-01-20 13:22:11
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Leviathan.Celebrindal said: »
As I know many who have done 3 COR setups know, the benefit comes from getting 5+ minutes straight of Tripleshot, not from the damage to each individual shot or WS. But a few things that always need to be in the back of your mind when doing this:

I can see benefit of 6min TS with 3x COR (or longer with Revitalizers), but 2x RNG + COR will still have DS/TS for 3mins and thats longer than killing time here. Also I cant see how you would avoid getting to hate cap riding TS that long unless its a fight with multiply enemy like Schah + adds.

Leviathan.Celebrindal said: »
Once again, I'll espouse the benefits of RNG using Annihilator (any followers of the Ranger forum/sticky know I talk about the love affair I have with that weapon at R15 constantly).

I can 100% see benefit of Annihilator, but again on fight that is like 5min long and is against single enemy and when you cant use Decoy shot and dont have BRD for Dirge. With 3 targets in 2min fight, I dont see how you could pull hate with -50 enmity.

Leviathan.Celebrindal said: »
I can see Camouflage being very effective with the Empyrean Weapons, but please- if you're gonna pop Camo, don't immediately use a WS and lose it! Ride your white damage!

If I understand how aiming delay works (more about it in COR thread), then I dont see the reason to WS at all, since it could actually lower your overall dps..
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 Odin.Karizo
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By Odin.Karizo 2021-01-20 13:23:23
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Leviathan.Celebrindal said: »
SimonSes said: »
Odin.Karizo said: »
I would honestly love to see a video of that lol. Now if only you're on Odin so that Ultime guy can tank 3 lamia with godlike reflexes while 3 R15 Arma COR wail on it.

Another reason why RNGs are better. RNG doesnt need Preludes really, so you can Dirge them. RNG with Dirge has capped -50 enmity in both max dmg AM3 double shot set and Last Stand set. Rng also has Camouflage, which I think works beyond enmity cap, but Im not sure. Decoy shot cant be applied in Lamia ambuscade I think.

Decoy is too dangerous to use this month- the benefits from it are going to end up being at best maybe 20 seconds saved in an already short fight? Not worth the added risk in my book. I still view using shooting strats as something we do for both quality damage but moreso safety.

I can see Camouflage being very effective with the Empyrean Weapons, but please- if you're gonna pop Camo, don't immediately use a WS and lose it! Ride your white damage! Otherwise, you just popped a /ja for 1-3 shots and then lose it. Considering how junk the SC dmg is this month, you're not losing much if you have a high end Empy Aftermath TP set by riding TP phase+Camo vs WS every chance you get.

As I know many who have done 3 COR setups know, the benefit comes from getting 5+ minutes straight of Tripleshot, not from the damage to each individual shot or WS. But a few things that always need to be in the back of your mind when doing this:

-you're gonna run out of bullets on COR. The lack of natural Recycle starts showing up bigtime in this type of scenario!
-Hate starts to become an issue if you can't ride Wildfire as a WS. I go COR/DRG in these types of moments, but this month popping that High Jump means that the Lamia has already turned towards you and the danger moment already exists before you get hit by the mob you just pulled hate on.

Once again, I'll espouse the benefits of RNG using Annihilator (any followers of the Ranger forum/sticky know I talk about the love affair I have with that weapon at R15 constantly).

-You will chain with the Fomalhaut or Armageddon CORs' Last Stands even without their Aftermaths up by using Coronach, which you can spam at 1k TP for full damage, and constantly keep your personal Enmity down.
-The +ranged attack part of Anni's aftermath means you can gear more Malignance gear and take advantage of the +PDL on neck and gear during white damage phase and still be at attack cap with just buffs, which shows up with those double-damage Relic AM procs.
-And lastly, you can still produce quality Last Stands when your TP overflow makes it too enticing to resist using in lieu of Coronach.

I think in Dehmar's video, he's just a lot stronger RNG in general when comparing his damage to the other RNG in the video using Annihilator, and a direct DPS comparison isn't reliable.

Sorry not trying to nitpick, just want to get the actual context, since i haven't tried it.

For decoy shot, in my head what it means is that the tank face the mobs toward the group (but still 15+ away), and the RNG has to line up Freyja, Tank, and themselves, right?

To me that doesn't present any additional risk than if the tank was to face them away from the group at 15+, or am I missing something?

Not all the TP moves are labeled with the range on BG-wiki, but I assumed everything is 15.
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By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2021-01-20 13:28:07
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@SimonSes-

Oh I'm definitely gonna try some runs this week using Gandiva- I just started with Anni on our first night of doing runs and have been busy since :) I usually do things like this starting with a strat of higher safety, and then over time loosen things up for speed and performance while sacrificing some of that safety, and find the line.

A lot of the times, strats posted here or worse yet, videos posted, are all built around showing off a single run with prebuffs, 2hrs used, etc vs a strat built around the ability to spam wins without having to reset. I'd rather find a 6minute strat that can be repeated constantly than a 4minute strat that would require resetting 2hrs in between each run. As such, I value stability in the run more than ideal performance. Just call me a fan of a subaru over a ferrari ^^


**EDIT**

@Karizo- if all the TP moves have a range limited at 15', then yes, using Decoy would be quite viable.
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By SimonSes 2021-01-20 13:32:10
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Odin.Karizo said: »
Sorry not trying to nitpick, just want to get the actual context, since i haven't tried it.

For decoy shot, in my head what it means is that the tank face the mobs toward the group (but still 15+ away), and the RNG has to line up Freyja, Tank, and themselves, right?

To me that doesn't present any additional risk than if the tank was to face them away from the group at 15+, or am I missing something?

Not all the TP moves are labeled with the range on BG-wiki, but I assumed everything is 15.

Yeah this is how it works (assuming gazes arent 20+), but like I said, I dont see a reason to even do this, when you can simply ride Dirge and -50 enmity on RNG and targets having like 500k+ hp. With damage spread to 2 RNGS and COR, each RNG would do like 200-250k damage? I honestly dont see how you could pull hate from this.
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By Mrxi 2021-01-20 14:07:17
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Been tanking this as cor/run. Marcato prelude, AGI etude, Minne, Minuet for the cor. 2 march 2 minne for the WHM, 2 march madrigal minuet for the brd. sam/chaos geo-frailty indi-wilt. once main boss dies can use indi fury. my cor is pretty bad and can carry 2 leech np. You have to always be facing them so walk to 21 then lockon cast flash use pflug vallation swordplay, walk backwards while locked on till they line up right so can always face them. super easy month if can turn on right moves.
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By SimonSes 2021-01-20 15:07:36
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Mrxi said: »
walk backwards while locked on till they line up right so can always face them. super easy month if can turn on right moves.

If you go close to wall (right hand of your char to wall, thats important), then your enemies will all line up in front of you, sometimes even on top of each other.
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By Odin.Demhar 2021-01-20 15:25:43
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I see a lot of talks going on Gandiva /rng set up/ video I posted...

A) Gandiva is not ideal. We had several fails with this set up. I even commented on video about this. Too many things can go wrong in this fight and they were all mentioned by many people. Nothing special I used in Gandiva set up. The sets are posted in RNG forums. The RNG forum community is very active at finding optimal sets and keeping them updated.

B) Did this fight using all 7 RNG REMAs and this is my conclusion from my personal experience...
Annihilator R15: Easy mode. Spam Coronach 28-35k back to back don't even flinch get over it this gun is freakin amazing
Armageddon R15/Fomalhaut R15/ This two are kind of equal in this fight (from my experience so far not on paper) because its a short fight Arma doesn't get chance to pull ahead in white dmg while Fomal spams 35-40k+ Last Stands back to back+ Radiance (if you don't pull hate and die, yes you will pull hate)
Gastraphetes R15: Your best friend here is the speed and AM3. Last Stands not that impressive.
Fail-Not R15: I was able to pull off 40k Refulgent Arrows with this + Spam Apex Arrows 20k and Jishuns'20-30k for funzy. Didn't pull hate. Ideal? Not really...Fun!
Yoichinoyumi R15: Yes I did use it...Falls behind from other bows ~20k's on Namas Arrow + lots of skillchains No hate issues
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By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2021-01-20 15:34:51
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thanks for the concise rundown! Glad to know the Coronach Crowd is growing every day!
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By Asura.Essylt 2021-01-22 02:08:42
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If the entire party has react, then the fight is such a straight up zerg, you could probably turn on autows and go afk. Since you'll dodge every gaze move and hate reset doesn't really matter if everyone stands on top of each other in the corner.

Odin.Demhar said: »
Annihilator R15:
What would the party setup for that be like? RNGx2 Tank WHM GEO BRD?
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By Shiva.Arislan 2021-01-23 14:39:44
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Now a 1:45 clear >.>

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 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2021-01-23 15:53:01
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I haven't done a single ambu all month. Maybe I'll try this method. What is that, MNK x3 GEO COR/smn SMN?
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By Pantafernando 2021-01-23 15:58:40
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That subligar elvaan is always on daggers so i guess they matched each Lamia with its weakness for fast dps.

NVM, hes on H2h
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By Odin.Demhar 2021-01-23 20:14:52
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Asura.Essylt said: »
If the entire party has react, then the fight is such a straight up zerg, you could probably turn on autows and go afk. Since you'll dodge every gaze move and hate reset doesn't really matter if everyone stands on top of each other in the corner.

Odin.Demhar said: »
Annihilator R15:
What would the party setup for that be like? RNGx2 Tank WHM GEO BRD?

the weapon shouldn't be a deal breaker for pt set up. any range set up will work with Annihilator
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By Asura.Crowned 2021-01-23 23:14:49
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Having the brd use marcato/SV dirge as one of the songs emulates annihilator's AM effect. Would allow you to use arma/fomal and go full throttle just like you could with annihilator.

Edit: Simon already said the same thing I said, but yeah, was worth restating.

SimonSes said: »
Odin.Karizo said: »
Sorry not trying to nitpick, just want to get the actual context, since i haven't tried it.

For decoy shot, in my head what it means is that the tank face the mobs toward the group (but still 15+ away), and the RNG has to line up Freyja, Tank, and themselves, right?

To me that doesn't present any additional risk than if the tank was to face them away from the group at 15+, or am I missing something?

Not all the TP moves are labeled with the range on BG-wiki, but I assumed everything is 15.

Yeah this is how it works (assuming gazes arent 20+), but like I said, I dont see a reason to even do this, when you can simply ride Dirge and -50 enmity on RNG and targets having like 500k+ hp. With damage spread to 2 RNGS and COR, each RNG would do like 200-250k damage? I honestly dont see how you could pull hate from this.
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 Lakshmi.Buukki
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Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2021-01-24 10:02:40
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If going the shooting route, which moves does the tank have to turn for/stare at?

Charm (b dance) = turn
Petrification = turn
Noxious = turn
Imperiling disregard = stare

Is this all?
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