Resist Testing

Didn't we think that Resist! traits are different then Resist effects? Would those potentially be nerfed on NM's too? Loving the information btw.

My impression was that traits and resist+ from gear and food were all the same term. However, since food is apparently NOT nerfed on NMs while gear is, seems we will need a baseline to determine if traits are nerfed or not.

Was food tested on non nm just to make sure they didn't do something weird there?

Not yet, will add it to list for next set of dyna tests though

Thank you for the insight, CMB. This is really interesting.

If doing this method one thing to keep in mind is the range on stun is around 20' while the other debuffs are like 12ish I want to say so you can stay at a range to only get stunned which is nice since breakga will also give the stuns the no effect message and well lets you use the tester as the nuker too easier without worrying about sleep para petri etc and not wanting to count on trusts

So did Sang Buaya. Only have 1 character with such high resist and had to keep repopping so not quite the sample size of others. Had on Onca suit (90), Anu Torque (10), arête/arête+1 (15/20), Staunch talthum (10), 4/5 Ogma's cape (8), Icecrack ring, and run main. So +153 and iirc someone had icecrack at 5 and run is supposed to be 15 so ~+173 (approximate because unsure about icecrack and haven't confirmed jt has the same nm nerf. Actually have we confirmed gear that just enhances does as well?)


409 Casts
42 Stuns
364 Resist!
3 Resists

88.99% Resist!

6.66% resist

While can use more to get a more exact percentage think we can rule out 80% Resist! cap at least (where did that idea even come from anyways?)

Not sure we can make too much of the regular resist. We already know stun is accurate but against 129 nm and only with 355 meva don't think we can really say if it's just due to a ton of resist states (which has always seemed more likely to me) or whether just has enough macc bonus to cover my meva

Another thing that we might want to test is whether Cheer based Resist effects are nerfed by NMs.

The Snoll Cheer gives Resist Silence +10.

Also moglifications too. Like 5 or so resists from furniture

I about had a heart attack when it occurred to me that this might mean I need to retest resist death gear. Then I realized that nothing non NM can even cast Death, and I tested Shadow ring on an NM(Angra Mainyu) in the first place. /whew.

Edit: Oh crap. It does mean I need to test resist death gear with stated values though... Shadow ring doesn't have a stated value. But say, Warden's says +10 for example, but does that get nerfed vs NMs down to +5%? ugh. Time to die a few hundred more times.

That said... I may also need to retest Sagasinger's terror resist and see if it's subject to the NM nerf. Original tests were on Non-NM nauls. Maybe verify Founder's greaves on nauls, then retest vs an NM... That testing is gonna suck though.

Anyway, clearlyamule's test pretty much answers my earlier questions about when the nerf is applied in relation to caps. this has to be precap. else it wouldn't get above 50%. and it's significantly above 50%.

Also, this test fairly strongly implies that Tenacity is also subject to the NM nerf. estimated +173 resist+ /2 = 86.5. Observed result 88.99. 2.49 difference is within variance for the sample size. If tenacity wasn't being nerfed then we should be seeing 94% resist!. 158/2=79+15=94.

Testing Terror should be too bad. With Founder's Greaves and Sagasinger on, you should have a ~100% Terror resist (based on your testing of Sagasinger and the listed value on Founder's greaves), so you'd only need enough samples on NMs to distinguish between 100% (no nerf to either), 75% (nerf to Sagasinger or Founder's greaves) or 50% (nerf to both).

Really annoying NM that will spam Terror might be Ouryu II. Just swing away with a weak weapon and you can pretty much tank him until infinity, so long as you use Selt/KoH/Yoran for MP refresh. Unlikely to kill you as well (might get annoying once he starts flying though) The NM level of Ouryu should match the difficulty level you enter as, though it would cost you some merits if you wanted to try.

Or could try any of the other abyssea dragons, though I'm not sure if those are ilvl, or if that would matter.

88.99 is still the highest value seen thus far. Tenacity might not be nerfed and it could be running into a 90% cap, that is closer to the data. Need more samples with a higher resist+ to be sure.

What about Perdition?

I'll try to get more gear that was just what I had laying around. Actually could just do some lower value ones against non nms really

I'm not sure you can actually hit 100% resist rate? Clearlyamule had 153+ resist and still only hit about 90% resist.

Follow along. We already concluded that resist from gear is halved against NMs.

The text on the items is different. I don't think we can assume they are equivalent at this point. There's also Sagasinger + Talekeeper.

Oh, that possibility hadn't occurred to me. That could definitely be the case given what we know atm.

Your next test was going to be an attempt to hit 100% on non-NMs right? If that also hits 90% then that would support the idea. Well, unless they gave NM's a different cap as well. But I feel like that's very unlikely.

I'm honestly not certain that resist Death even works on anything but the spell Death.

I mean, Perdition is potentially a test option, but I think I'd need a control test first to see if it can be natively resisted. Also, that would be some painfully slow testing. Even with multiple mobs they cast spells and use other TP moves. The Perdition usage rate is likely to be very low.

On the other hand, Angra Mainyu does basically nothing but spam death, to the point that I was getting a cast about every 20 seconds. And well, it's the rate vs NMs that's important in any case.

Also Instant kill TP moves often have odd criteria as to if they kill you or not. Take Tera Slash from Arch Dynamis Lord. Sometimes it just does dmg. Sometimes you just fall over dead, no dmg inflicted. Is this just a proc rate, or is there some criteria? Or take Tyrant tusk or Tidal Guillotine for example with their HP based triggers. Does Perdition have any such criteria? And so on.

Regarding terror, I can already confirm that Sagasinger+Founder's is not 100% resist vs NMs. I have a very limited sample vs Kin's Eleventh Dimension. And by very limited I mean all of 16 samples. 13 of which were resisted. 81.25%. But the margin of error on a sample that size is huge. so it really only serves to say, "Not 100%"

I think that I just need to test everything. Test founder's alone, test talekeeper alone, then test Saga+Founder and then all 3. Ideally on both NMs and non NMs. But yeah... I dunno when/if that's gonna happen.

If you want to test death by Perdition, you can go to the assault Imperial Code and find tons of Ghosts ready to use it. In my experience, it's the TP move they favor.

I've seen resist death proc on "deathly glare" from Akvan

At least, assumed, since it's cone something weird could've happened.

NM Testing is far from over.

Gargoyles (NM) - Hearty Earring:
DS 1: (Resisted!): 38 Regular Resist: 802 Landed: 129 Total: 969 Percentage: 3.921569
DS 2: (Resisted!): 47 Regular Resist: 848 Landed: 138 Total: 1033 Percentage: 4.549855
Combined: (Resisted!): 85 Regular Resist: 1650 Landed: 267 Total: 2002 Percentage: 4.245754

Way more likely that no nurf is happening then one is on Hearty.

For now I'm done with Hearty and probably going to switch to Hands + Earring combo.

I'd like some bigger samples for some other stuff then just the body pieces and bigger samples with body only.

I think if anyone wants to be testing NMs atm it should be with smaller amounts rather then supposed 100% + sets

Yeah non spell tp moves do proc resist! But the message will be Resist! Something something misses instead of you resist the spell. And obviously you have to choose one that doesn't deal dmg or have other effects to mess with it.

As far as perdition part of why I choose that one specifically is because for the mobs that do use it it's very common. Specifically the bhoots in a couple of assaults as well as the ones in abyssea tend to actually use it upon aggro. Another reason is it's used by non nms. And 3rdly because it has no other component such as dmg it's straight up death as a tp move unlike some of the other weird ones you mentioned.

Note that when you resist Terror using a Resist Terror item (or at least, with Founder's greaves), there is no "Resist!" message, unlike standard resist gear.

In addition, Resist All gear has no effect on Terror.

It's quite time consuming to get a large enough sample to be confident of anything with small amounts. Maybe we're seeing a difference between 'resist all statuses' and 'resist status' for impact on NMs. However, even with the sample size I used, it's pretty easy to see that etio+shrieker's is working differently on the gargoyles in some way. I'd be interested in seeing the expanded data if you're working on them.

For 'resist all statuses', I'll reiterate that dobsonflies are a great option if alive on your server. Over triple the casts/hour, and their MP pool can last upwards of 3 hours, making them more time efficient and more afk friendly. Panacea cost a fair bit more than echos if removing slow, though, so may not be as budget friendly if gil is a concern.

I was thinking that might be the case too and now that I got 2k samples on the earring why I wanted to switch to the hands+earring since they are listed differently.

For reference, Death resist procs also don't show a resist! message. They get a plain resist message on proc. Easy to tell the difference in this case, since the death spell cannot be resisted via meva.
I'm aware that TP moves can proc resist! messages, but I'm talking about resist death specifically. which cannot be assumed to function the same. See above screenshot of death resists. This clearly differs from normal resist gear functionality. I'm interested in seeing if it displays the same way on death TP moves, assuming it works on those.

It's good to hear they have a high frequency of usage for perdition though. That will make testing much simpler.

Well yeah it's going to work differently due to not being an actual resist trait. But it's one of those easy to tell since the whole no meva resist thing similar to terror except that's weird because some forms are. Haven't actually tested this on them though I think I did try huge amounts of meva/dark resist before and didn't do so well.

What I meant was it be more useful and would help narrow down any variances if people shoot for 80-85% builds assuming the cap is 90%.

It would go pretty fast this way and if something isn't lining up either way(+,-). We have now narrowed it to a few pieces of gear,jts or w/e that need to be looked into further this way.

Except we can't assume the cap (if any) is 90% from what we know. Until we do, there's no reason to try to specifically shot for less than 90%.

Which Terror you talking about cause it sure seems like it works on stuff like Faze or Jettatura but not on Absolute Terror. Has anyone done recorded testing on non-dragon Terror?