Adoption is a option. So yeah pro-life.(if the mother is to die over the child's birth guess what pro-choice.)
So you're stating that:
1. Life begins at conception and any mistake made that led to pregnancy (lack of education, poverty, lack of access, broken contraceptives) is just an "oh well" for the mother who should become an incubator for the clump of cells.
2. The 9 months of carrying the child and hours/days of birthing the child is just a "tough luck" for getting pregnant?
Interesting perspective. And it's not called pro-life, it's called "pro-poor-women-incubators", common mistake.
edit: Also, women have millions of eggs that "die before every getting the chance to breathe". If you want to talk about "potential life", we better to get fertilizing every egg possible to prevent the MASS GENOCIDE!!
I for one am up to the task of this mass impregnation. Whose first?
Honestly don't even think abortion should be a word. The fact that it became so common or used that they needed to give it a word is sorta sick to me.
If someone gets pregnant it is their fault(guy and girl) (unless raped) it is a very harsh thing to tell people what they can/can't do with their own bodies but what about the person inside the woman's belly? who is going to speak for them? (edit later busy)
Easy there champ, you glossed over the main point of this debate:
It's NOT a person inside them. At least not until some time into the pregnancy.
You're basically just arguing "LIFE BEGINS AT CONCEPTION AND YOU CAN'T TELL ME OTHERWISE", in which case: Why are you even arguing here?
Every one of my sperm (sexy ones at that) is a "potential contributor of amino acids and protiens" to another batch of amino acids and protiens (an egg) that potentially may develop into a more complex life form.
You don't seem to be getting really upset over the mass genocide that happens everytime I masturbate, or everytime a woman has a period.
Why not? THOSE ARE POTENTIAL LIVES!!
Or is there some magic the moment my RNA sequences latch onto her RNA sequences? Is there a god that's waiting for that exact moment and going "BOOM SOUL TIME BABY"??
What about the fact that 40% of pregnancies don't even last past the first trimester (and women don't even know it), naturally. Is "god" MURDERING ALL OF THESE PEOPLE?
Or is it just a natural biproduct of a complex gestation period?
Every one of my sperm (sexy ones at that) is a "potential contributor of amino acids and protiens" to another batch of amino acids and protiens (an egg) that potentially may develop into a more complex life form.
You don't seem to be getting really upset over the mass genocide that happens everytime I masturbate, or everytime a woman has a period.
Why not? THOSE ARE POTENTIAL LIVES!!
Or is there some magic the moment my RNA sequences latch onto her RNA sequences? Is there a god that's waiting for that exact moment and going "BOOM SOUL TIME BABY"??
What about the fact that 40% of pregnancies don't even last past the first trimester (and women don't even know it), naturally. Is "god" MURDERING ALL OF THESE PEOPLE?
Or is it just a natural biproduct of a complex gestation period?
I think you know the answer.
you're right, however I've heard of abortions very late into pregnancy I just don't agree with someone killing a baby who is well into their stages of development. Just don't see the point in killing them besides having to take away the fact you won't have to take care of the child. You even posted the facts that most of the abortions are done are out of connivance.
Isn't the consensus here that late-term abortions (I think this is defined as after the child has a developed nervous system, ergo has even the most rudimentary of thoughts, but unsure) are murdering and that early-term is just a cluster of cells being extracted?
Every one of my sperm (sexy ones at that) is a "potential contributor of amino acids and protiens" to another batch of amino acids and protiens (an egg) that potentially may develop into a more complex life form.
You don't seem to be getting really upset over the mass genocide that happens everytime I masturbate, or everytime a woman has a period.
Why not? THOSE ARE POTENTIAL LIVES!!
Or is there some magic the moment my RNA sequences latch onto her RNA sequences? Is there a god that's waiting for that exact moment and going "BOOM SOUL TIME BABY"??
What about the fact that 40% of pregnancies don't even last past the first trimester (and women don't even know it), naturally. Is "god" MURDERING ALL OF THESE PEOPLE?
Or is it just a natural biproduct of a complex gestation period?
I think you know the answer.
you're right, however I've heard of abortions very late into pregnancy I just don't agree with someone killing a baby who is well into their stages of development. Just don't see the point in killing them besides having to take away the fact you won't have to take care of the child. You even posted the facts that most of the abortions are done are out of connivance.
I think you're twisting words. You're correct in stating that 93% are not done in "life threatening or rape" circumstances. However, using the word "convieniance" is very disingenuous.
If you don't understand why, go back to the statistics I showed you on what education, income, religion, and ethnic backgrounds are the most prone to unwanted pregnancy (poor white/minority religious women). There's nothing "convenient" about any of their lives or situations.
Onto your point however about later term abortions, here are some numbers to remove the ambiguity:
Less that 1% of all abortions are mid 2nd trimester or later and less than .02% are 3rd trimester (what we'd consider "late term abortions). Of those, 98% of the mid 2nd trimester abortions are due to health risks and virtually all of the 3rd trimester abortions are due to mother's health (she would die during pregnancy or there are severe problems with the baby's health).
We're talking about ending pregnancies 98% of the time during the stage that mother nature casually ends them due to gestation problems (first trimester), and not before significant biological development. We're also not talking about women using abortion as a form of casual birth control, because that is also a myth. Ending unwanted pregnancies is not ending a life. It's allowing a poor woman to wait til their ready to bring a person into the world, so that person and that lady can lead more productive and fulfilling lives.
What about the fact that 40% of pregnancies don't even last past the first trimester (and women don't even know it), naturally. Is "god" MURDERING ALL OF THESE PEOPLE?
Or is it just a natural biproduct of a complex gestation period?
I think you know the answer.
you're right, however I've heard of abortions very late into pregnancy I just don't agree with someone killing a baby who is well into their stages of development. Just don't see the point in killing them besides having to take away the fact you won't have to take care of the child. You even posted the facts that most of the abortions are done are out of connivance.
We're talking about ending pregnancies 98% of the time during the stage that mother nature casually ends them due to gestation problems (first trimester), and not before significant biological development. We're also not talking about women using abortion as a form of casual birth control, because that is also a myth. Ending unwanted pregnancies is not ending a life. It's allowing a poor woman to wait til their ready to bring a person into the world, so that person and that lady can lead more productive and fulfilling lives.
Is it? Because to me it seems it is a form of birth control what would you consider it? you say "It's allowing a poor woman to wait til their ready to bring a person into the world, so that person and that lady can lead more productive and fulfilling lives."
But it is a form of birth control, if they don't preform the abortion then they will have a baby.
My problem is why are people who can't afford to have a child having unprotected sex. Yet they can afford go get an abortion?(I'm sure there are free clinics, but my point still stands why are there free clinics? Why aren't there ways to help prevent unprotected sex instead?)
Honestly this boils down to where you view life starts. I'm still Pro-life (unless the birth will affect the mothers health) and yes I'm sure if abortion rates are as high as they are adoption rates are also very high and hard to do. But should people, companies and the government be spending money on abortion programs or should they be spending them on adoption or prevention programs? I just simply think their should be better options.
Yes they do. Those moms are going to make loads off mtv and such. Reality TV is not reality.
eh they probably won't make as much as you think. one of the things that gives rise to all this reality tv is because it's cheap as hell to produce.
The people on the first 16 and pregnant shows made a significant amount of money. As the seasons went on, it dropped lower and lower due to the influx of people wanting to do the show.
I can't remember the source, and I'm too lazy to google. So no numbers right now.
Amber from the first season made 60k. Source: she's from my hometown (sad to say) my wife waited on her numerous times blowing her money at her jewelry store. She now resides in jail where she has been for the last 2 mos.
Edit: Oh ya and she is broke again, the judge has ordered her to keep come up with 10k for her childs college fund, which she has yet to make happen. Local News paper & Another
Doesn't surprise me! I know plenty of mothers who had kids in their teens and can't/couldn't shed their immature, self-indulgent habits. (Not saying every teen mom does this, but I have seen it many many times over.)
So, another example that I saw in my very late teens. I was friends with a couple in HS who conceived early our senior year. She was homecoming queen, and ranked fifth in our class. All the potential in the world. When she found out about her pregnancy her HS sweetheart took off to California for a bit with another girl, because he didn't want to face the reality of being a father. (They were such a good little Baptist couple.)
Long story short. He ended up sticking a shot gun in his mouth and blowing his brains all over their dining room after we met up with him and his wife during summer break after our freshman year of college.
In college, a girl who was roommates with one of my friends intentionally overdosed on oxycodon after learning she was pregnant. She agonized over how ashamed she felt for two weeks to our group of friends before she did the deed.
And that's all I'm going to say about those instances. So, there you go Tenshi. Enjoy!
Shadowknoll, do keep in mind that birth control does sometimes fail. In my own family, there's been four children conceived while the mother was on birth control pills. I was one of them. There's been at least one conceived while the parents were using condoms, and one conceived while the mother was on another method of birth control. Birth control to begin with is always the preferable choice, but sometimes it just doesn't do the trick.
I also know of a guy who committed suicide after his girlfriend became pregnant. I didn't meet her until after he was gone, but I knew the girl and their child. I hope that most men who find out that they are to become fathers don't kill themselves, but it's not unheard of.
Shadowknoll, do keep in mind that birth control does sometimes fail. In my own family, there's been four children conceived while the mother was on birth control pills. I was one of them. There's been at least one conceived while the parents were using condoms, and one conceived while the mother was on another method of birth control. Birth control to begin with is always the preferable choice, but sometimes it just doesn't do the trick.
yeah I know but their are also other options afterwards. I understand people having something like a child being bumped on them unexpected is a huge thing to take. Sometimes like Zah( I'm sorry that happened Zah =/) has shown it can have a very bad outcome. Trust me I've not had a perfect life, I understand telling people how to live their lifes/ect when you don't even know what they have lived through is a stupid idea. Throwing guilt at people is not something I like doing, it just does not help anyone. However I still feel there should be more and better options for people then looking to abortions first.
Shadow is also ignoring the social and financial constraints that cause unwanted pregnancies to begin with (and i'm not talking about not being able to afford condoms, I'm talking about being poorly educated and from minority ethnicity that lead to these behaviors).
But hey, it's just another form of birth control right, by those lazy ***, right?
Shadowknoll, do keep in mind that birth control does sometimes fail. In my own family, there's been four children conceived while the mother was on birth control pills. I was one of them. There's been at least one conceived while the parents were using condoms, and one conceived while the mother was on another method of birth control. Birth control to begin with is always the preferable choice, but sometimes it just doesn't do the trick.
yeah I know but their are also other options afterwards. I understand people having something like a child being bumped on them unexpected is a huge thing to take. Sometimes like Zah( I'm sorry that happened Zah =/) has shown it can have a very bad outcome. Trust me I've not had a perfect life, I understand telling people how to live their lifes/ect when you don't even know what they have lived through is a stupid idea. Throwing guilt at people is not something I like doing, it just does not help anyone. However I still feel there should be more and better options for people then looking to abortions first.
of course there should be. and everyone should have food to eat, great health, and never be poor. unfortunately we live in this thing called reality which isn't pretty.
Shadowknoll, do keep in mind that birth control does sometimes fail. In my own family, there's been four children conceived while the mother was on birth control pills. I was one of them. There's been at least one conceived while the parents were using condoms, and one conceived while the mother was on another method of birth control. Birth control to begin with is always the preferable choice, but sometimes it just doesn't do the trick.
Yeah...I think we've talked about this in another thread. Threads like this always make me think about that night.
She's good now. She remarried, received her bachelors in education, and their daughter was too young to know what had happened.
Shadow is also ignoring the social and financial constraints that cause unwanted pregnancies to begin with (and i'm not talking about not being able to afford condoms, I'm talking about being poorly educated and from minority ethnicity that lead to these behaviors).
But hey, it's just another form of birth control right, by those lazy ***, right?
It reminds me of when people say that the poor people should just get jobs.
Well, yeah, duh, that would fix the problem.
But there's no just put on your job shoes and go door to door 'till you have a job an hour or two later. The economy blows, and has blown for as long as I remember, and it's hard as ***to get a job.
Shadow is also ignoring the social and financial constraints that cause unwanted pregnancies to begin with (and i'm not talking about not being able to afford condoms, I'm talking about being poorly educated and from minority ethnicity that lead to these behaviors).
But hey, it's just another form of birth control right, by those lazy ***, right?
It reminds me of when people say that the poor people should just get jobs.
Well, yeah, duh, that would fix the problem.
But there's no just put on your job shoes and go door to door 'till you have a job an hour or two later. The economy blows, and has blown for as long as I remember, and it's hard as ***to get a job.
I'll say it again I'm not going to give people sh!t for being poor or trying to get by and live their life, read what I said. No this is not a perfect world but yes I do think their should be more options then people going to abortion for the first pick. get mad at me for having an opinion if you want lol.
Shadowknoll, what exactly would you propose doing to make sure people who aren't ready for kids aren't having unprotected sex? Just curious.
I have heard the excuses of "I'm allergic to condoms." and "I can't take birth control because there's a history of blood clots in my family." from my own friends who became young mothers. There are people that don't know of places like Planned Parenthood that will give you a free year supply of birth control pills every year if you are poor or uninsured, as well as free or super cheap condoms. People get in "the heat of the moment" and forget to dig out a condom. Antibiotics can interfere with birth control pills and make them useless, and some women don't know that who are taking it. Lots of things happen that can lead to an unwanted pregnancy. A lot of it is just not being educated, but the information is out there, everywhere. How far can you go to make sure everyone is getting that information?
Also sometimes, people just have poor judgement and make bad decisions. I personally became pregnant with an ex who convinced me we were ready since we were going to be getting married anyway and maybe a baby would help our relationship because we were having some problems. I made the mistake of believing him and letting him throw out my pills, and wouldn't you know it, two weeks later he was leaving me, and I found out I was pregnant shortly after. We tried to work things out but the relationship was broken beyond repair. I had a miscarriage at about 5 or 6 weeks. I haven't seen the guy in almost 4 years and after the breakup I wasn't in any state to take care of myself, let alone a baby, so I consider myself and what would have been my child lucky, as terrible as it may sound. I probably wouldn't have chosen abortion if I hadn't miscarried at the time, but knowing how everything played out now, it probably would have been the best option for me. Adoption is hard and some women can't deal with the psychological effects of carrying and delivering a baby and then giving it away, and I know I certainly wouldn't have been able to deal with it given the circumstances. I never wanted to become another 20 something single mom on welfare endlessly chasing child support checks from some guy who didn't want to hold up his end of the deal, and I was far too messed up emotionally from everything to provide a proper life for a child. I'm not too proud to admit that I made a mistake, but I am glad that I have the choice to terminate a pregnancy if I feel it's in the best interest of my own well being and the child's.
Don't know and it seems no one else here has any answers on this subject either just facts about it and opinions. Sorry I gave mine and upset everyone, peace.
Christ! I don't know why those two instances are still dancing through my brain. I shouldn't have mentioned either walked foot in this thread.
With the girl in college, (I'm really not trying to make this about religion.) she was raised Catholic. That's pretty much where her anguish with an unexpected pregnancy came from, I think.
She was only an acquaintance, but her deterioration in those two weeks is something I will never forget. Such a sweet girl, and from what we talked about, she had never had sex before college, never drank, and had never done drugs. That circle of friends, they're very distant friends to me now, were very consumed by drugs.
I forgot the exact timeline, but one night when she was spilling to us, my friend pulled out a sheet of acid and offered some to her. I was on shrooms at the time. Minutes after what was truly going before my eyes finally registered with me, I immediately ran outside and induced vomiting.
We all knew she was pregnant. I don't know why they even offered it to her. Sometimes I wonder if her taking acid while she was pregnant was why she couldn't forgive herself, if she had already decided that the depression was so much that she just didn't care to look at alternatives, or if she had already decided that she was going to kill herself and this would be one of the last hoorahs.
I knew I didn't want to go back into that apartment. I just walked home, and cried the whole way.
Hrrrmmm...I'm going to have a hard time sleeping tonight.
Christ! I don't know why those two instances are still dancing through my brain. I shouldn't have mentioned either walked foot in this thread.
With the girl in college, (I'm really not trying to make this about religion.) she was raised Catholic. That's pretty much where her anguish with an unexpected pregnancy came from, I think.
She was only an acquaintance, but her deterioration in those two weeks is something I will never forget. Such a sweet girl, and from what we talked about, she had never had sex before college, never drank, and had never done drugs. That circle of friends, they're very distant friends to me now, were very consumed by drugs.
I forgot the exact timeline, but one night when she was spilling to us, my friend pulled out a sheet of acid and offered some to her. I was on shrooms at the time. Minutes after what was truly going before my eyes finally registered with me, I immediately ran outside and induced vomiting.
We all knew she was pregnant. I don't know why they even offered it to her. Sometimes I wonder if her taking acid while she was pregnant was why she couldn't forgive herself, if she had already decided that the depression was so much that she just didn't care to look at alternatives, or if she had already decided that she was going to kill herself and this would be one of the last hoorahs.
I knew I didn't want to go back into that apartment. I just walked home, and cried the whole way.
Hrrrmmm...I'm going to have a hard time sleeping tonight.
I know that my girlfriend has had a lot of stress put on her from her family and that sometimes the anticipated reaction to overwhelming parents is too much to bear for her, so I can imagine.
Sorry to hear about that, it's a good thing to remember: to always let your children know that you will be there for them and maybe they won't freak like that.
That being said, it is only legal because the law could not stop them from happening and women were dying from infections (clothes hangars are a hell of a thing).
Will it become illegal again? Probably not, the country is too divided on the subject.
However I'll leave you with the thought: If it there is the slightest chance that it is a human baby at conception, even if you don't believe it is, are you really willing to take the chance of committing murder and killing your child? Forget the law, forget any other extenuating circumstances, think in terms of "will you really be able to live with yourself?"
