Hundred Knives

so i realised this yesterday during abyssea; Dnc has become quite fast, and it with the new armor that came out it isnt hard to cap out your gear haste cap. and not to mention (i havent quite verified this yet) that with the equip like charis necklace and auric dagger, dnc's dual wield surpasses nin's. just out of speculation but do you think with /war and saber dnc that you will deal more dmg if you just ride it and not ws if you have capped out all your haste gear + dual wield?

I've been busy with school, so I'm way behind on the update.

But, I've looked at the new AF and it's actually better than I expected.

Having Auric/Charis Necklace already, I can attest that DoT is insane attack speed. Give DNC magic haste and it literally is hundred daggers!

Can't you guys use the dual wield enhancing throwing weapon too?

Edit: Acturraly Dnc doesn't get more dual wield than Nin its the same since NINs New Head Piece gives Enhance dual weild aswell, (does Dnc Af3 have dual wield on it?)

So both Jobs have 2pieces gear the other job can't wear with it, but there possible that Nin has the Next dual wield Tier @ 85,

thats possible, and no af3 head gives 6% haste (which i would prefer over 5% dual wield anyways), but set augments samba, which means a stronger haste samba.

My freind has the charis necklace and Auric dagger on her dancer and around... 21% haste? IDR <.<; but yeah with haste samba AND haste (spell) she hits super *** fast. pair it with march and she lags me with haste samba. lol

Your avatar is misspelled!

I saw "Hundred Knives" and I started think Monk + Hundred Fists + Trainee Knife. I've always wanted to do that quest and try it out, just to be weird.

Maybe today I will get to it, haha.

Hundred fists isn't as fast as mnk can go though. As far as zergs to, that 2hr is worthless if you have a dnc in your pt.

did you look at nin gear, it's extremely haste heavy.

I just meant a knife wielding monk could be fun...ny to look at.

Dont Forget that the new NIN set "Augments Dual Wield". Still all speculation as to what that might mean, however. I'm hoping it negates the TP reduction. But thats a dfferent story all together.

iirc its not as good as what dnc has access to

THF wil still out DD and dnc

I don't know if you counted it in your calculations, but NIN can get DW+ from old gear as well - AF1 body and AF2 legs both have it.

This guy Dova's dnc was 300 fistin at lv. 75. You dont need the new gear to have a lotta haste. jus sayin

Completely untrue statement, there are a ton of crappily geared thfs out there. Atleast there is on my server, and the opposite is true. I still dont understand why i see DNC's running around in almost full AF (fulltiming) >.>

XD hundred knives has been around. people have been capping the 25% haste cap and destroying everything since the church invented christmas. however... nin is going to be an effing whirlwind of chop chop with all the haste and dual weild enhancing they have going on. im seriously considerinng 85ing nin just to see the madness.

Thank you for knowing you could be good before SE made XI handicapped accessible

nin's lack haste samba and double attack

This is correct.

Saber dance is 50% DA for the first minute, /war is 10%, brutal is 5% for 65% double attack.

This makes DNC hit way more than a NIN

yet this really only procs the main-hand because your off-hand should be a joyeuse anyways....no? Thats what I damn sure would use on dnc (I have 8/8 sword merits, but its nothing sushi can't cover anyways)

I'm trying not to sound rude here, but you're completely wrong. First of all, joyeuse is stupid to use as dnc on anything that is of any difficult to kill. Why? Because you have a D rating in sword. That means 255 sword skill vs 311 dagger, so go ahead and do the math on that accuracy and attack difference on your own. You will have a much higher chance to hit 0's with it, and you will have to stack FAR more accuracy gear just to hit accuracy cap. Don't forget that you can also get the Occasionally attack twice magian trial dagger, or the occasionally attacks thrice one. Either would be much more useful since they are far more accurate and will hit harder due to the skill difference. Hitting 0's on dnc means no tp gain. It's probably a good thing you're not a dancer!

Now, secondly I'm going to respond to this little part of your statement:
yet this really only procs the main-hand because your off-hand should be a joyeuse anyways

Joyeuse has about a 50% chance to swing twice. If this procs, then you cannot double attack. If it does NOT proc, then you can still get a double attack. In other words, even if you're using a joyeuse or magian OAT dagger, you can still proc DA when you dont proc the OAT effect. This means you have a 82.5% chance to double attack with this weapon. If you miss with the first 50% chance to OAT the 65% DA gets a chance to proc, making it 82.5% likely that one or the other will indeed take effect.

Bottom line is, you could equip haste, attack, and str gear in slots while using daggers that you'd have to otherwise give up in order to hit acc cap with joyeuse. Any time you have to give up haste to cap acc you are losing out. The attack and str is also essential for dnc as the 0 damage hits net 0 tp gain, and both of these stats help prevent that from happening. It is not uncommon for people with inadequate str and attack to hit 0's on higher level mobs as dnc.

Note: This is a very lengthy post. If you feel like skipping the math you can just go to the bottom and look at the last 3 lines to see the gist of it.

By the way, here's the math a friend of mine did to illustrate a dnc's attack speed nowdays. I've reworded it and stuff to make it a bit more understandable to people who aren't as adapt at more complex equations though.

Dnc can obtain 45% Dual Wield.
--Dual Wield 4 = 30% DW
--Suppanomimi = 5% DW
--Charis Necklace = 5% DW
--Auric Dagger = 5% DW
Dnc can obtain about 70% Haste.
--25% Gear cap
--15% Haste Spell
--20% from 2x march
--10% Haste Samba

The combined delay of both daggers is 412 with Auric mainhand and OAT Parazonium +1 in offhand.

412 x 0.55 = 226.6 Delay
(this is figuring the 45% DW. 1 - .45 = .55)

226.6 x 0.3 = 67.98
(this is figuring the 70% haste)

67.98 / 60 = 1.133 seconds per round of attacks.

60 seconds / 1.133 = 52.95 rounds per minute.

Now, DNC/WAR can reach a potential 65% double attack, and the OAT off hand has around a 50% chance to occasionally attack twice I believe.

52.95 x 2 = 105.9 attacks per minute before OAT and DA
(An attack round is equal to 2 hits since you are dual wielding.)

--
Now it's going to get a little tricky. I am going to calculate the OAT chance of offhand first.
--

(Offhand will hit 52.95 times a minute before OAT is figured, so will main hand)
52.95 x 1.5 = 79.425 swings total only counting the OAT
(1.5 = 50% chance to OAT)

Now, the 65% DA cannot proc on the times that OAT does, so we need to figure that separately. Since 50% of attacks OAT, we can find the ones that do NOT OAT by dividing 52.95 by 2 (it's 26.45).

26.45 x .65 = 17.2 extra hits from double attack

79.425 hits + 17.2 = 96.625 hits with the offhand alone.

---
Now for the mainhand
---

52.95 swings per second x 1.65 = 87.3675 hits with the mainhand

87.3675 main hand + 96.625 off hand = 183.9925[/u]


---
The result
---

Dancer can swing 183.9925 times in 1 minute if they have capped haste and 45% dual wield with /war and saber dance up for the first minute.
This is about 3.07 swings per second, and is unbelievably fast.




---
For fun, here is the math on a kraken club assuming someone had 70% haste also.
---

Here's the swing chances of the k klub:
05% Chance of 1 hit
15% Chance of 2 Hits
25% Chance of 3 hits
25% Chance of 4 Hits
15% Chance of 5 Hits
10% Chance of 6 Hits
03% Chance of 7 Hits
02% Chance of 8 Hits

Average 3.82 Hits per round.

K klub delay = 264

264 delay x 0.3 (70% haste) = 79.2 adjusted delay

79.2 delay / 60 = 1.32 seconds per attack round

60 secs / 1.32 = 45.45 rounds per minute

45.45 x 3.82 = 173.619
(amount of attack rounds, times the average number of hits k klub gets per round)


---
Comparison
---

K klub swings 173.619 times in 1 minute and has 11 DMG
DNC/WAR can swing 183.9925 times in 1 minute and has 39 DMG with Auric Dagger in mainhand.



We should really call it 180 Knives, not 100 Knives.

Aye this is old news wayyy before update.... And I've parsed my DOT. Only job to beat me was a WAR Sry THF guys.... Lvl the job If you don't believe me'

No, way before the last two level cap increases dnc only had 20% dual wield with /nin and suppa. Thats a loss of 25% delay reduction. Also, you couldn't /war for +10% DA, and you couldn't /sam for increased WS frequency if you were dps'ing, it was a healer sub. (don't need that, you'll actually not want to burn your tp at 100 in important fights as /war cuz you gain it too fast, you'd be ws'ing every 5-6 seconds then die)

It did rather decent DoT before the update, but even with its max potential it was still outdone by the damage kings. Nowdays depending on what you fight you can beat pretty much any job.

would this be a good itemset for something like that?

'sup?



oh you said hundreds?

OAThree Parazonium +1 and Dual Wield +3/Whatever on the Mirke Wardecors.

ACC capped situations DA+2 would be best for the 2nd AUG on the Wardecors, otherwise ACC+10, or Crit+3 with Cavaros Mantle instead of the Sharpeye if you're crazy enough to try a critical hit combo using Charis Feather/Cavaros/DEX gear/food/Crit merits I guess? Meh.

Gear set has 26% haste (rounded down to 25%), DW+18, and OAThree offhand. Top it off with March, Haste, Haste Samba (w/ 5 Merits), and Blitz Roll for lulz.

Edit:

And Mirke Wardecors for an extra 3%.

So, total with your math is 48% Dual Wield, and about 70% Haste. Either way, it's pretty badass.