How Good Is Multihit Khanda For Atonement Spam?

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Trial_1206

now i could be missing something big, here, but it seems like paladin finally got its Ridill. as far as i can tell, this thing seems like it would be a dream for paladin atonement spam. Since paladins everywhere don't seem to have gone crazy over it, i am left to assume there is a catch to this thing i am missing.

assuming a ridill/mkris style 30/50/20 single/double/triple attack rate distribution, this would be beautiful

i notice the base damage is quite low. however, as far as i've read, base damage does not have anything to do with hitting for zero against high level mobs.

i'm ready to start checking the weather and start killing right now, but if this thing is worthless for some reason i'm not catching, i'd appreciate it if someone would enlighten me before i go kill seven million mobs to upgrade it

Assuming 30/50/20 (Idk if there are any tests, but just assuming), Khanda is only a tiny bit faster than Joyeuse. Technically, yes, it's faster for TPing, but it also has lower DMG and loses the piercing bonus during melee, meaning it will be more likely to hit for 0.

It's gonna pull faster tp than joyeuse, even if it's just a little more, it's gonna depend if you need the piercing bonus off joy or not.

All the OAT3 weapons are a shitload of kills, so as far as effort goes I would say just use joyeuse, it's only gonna be a little bit better.

Hopefully they add joy to magians later... but that's wishful thinking. Speaking of which, this sword may get extra dmg in next magian update to make it a lot better. It's really up to you if you wanna spend the effort on it or not.

I was pretty sure damage had zero effect on hitting for zero. however, on the bg thread here,

http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3907813&highlight=Khanda#post3907813

Tsuko_Asura says that base damage DOES have an effect on hitting for zero, but apparently it's not to the extent that attack affects it? cpu does some math and has OAThrice khanda coming out ahead even before remembering to factor in the greater tp gain for khanda.

this seems to imply that with the greater tp gain factored in and at 45%+ haste, OAThrice wins by a pretty decent margin.

however, i'd really be interested to know just how much that lower base damage would increase my hits for zero

SK, you make a good point. it's hard to get motivated to kill 3250 monsters when the next update might make it as worthless as 3/5 homam on a drg.

hell, it's hard to get motivated to do anything until ffxi gets back into a stable form

I think there was a thread here where someone mathed the effect DMG had on attack curves, but it only affected the lower end very slightly (think it was Haute vs Joyeuse?). Attack would have a much larger impact, since even with higher DMG weapons you'd still frequent 0s with low attack. Just from eyeballing in a strictly atonement scenario OAT would surpass Joyeuse decently assuming Pizza.

Well I don't see any magian weapons getting outdated, just more trials added.

But that might be because I have almost finished my OAThrice for MNK and I'll quit if it gets outdated lol

well, next update might reveal that you took the wrong path and killed 3250 mobs for nothing and now you'll have to start all over again

Why not do the OAT path and make a the new Joy? Would that not outdo the 2-3 in nearly every way?

Other than that I would rather wait and see what SE has planned for the 2-3 path before I go past the first split. Honestly can't tell what SE is up to.

True that, I didn't see the OA2-3 weapons coming out of this update. I just figured the lower dmg ones were made so an OAT weapon would obtainable to everyone.

please explain to me how in the hell the occasionally attacks twice would outdo the 2-3 times option for anything outside of campaign big enough for a paladin to be useful

in any case, joy already does what the OAT does, except better

if for some reason there IS a catch to his weapon i'm not seeing, i'll just keep the joy

Only thing the OAT weapon has on joytoy is like 7 base damage, and it has higher delay believe.

exactly.

as i'm sure you already know, base damage is essentially worthless for atonement spam, unless it is so low that it could cause you to hit for zero significantly more often

given that base damage apparently has has a very weak influence on your likelihood of hitting for zero, that does not seem to be the case with this weapon, pending word from math wizzes

the only thing that matters is how fast it gets you to 100 tp

the OAT has a way higher dmg and a bit lower delay? Would the Magian OAT out DoT Joy?

Would like to see the 2-3s get better augs as well, not dising on it.

base damage is worthless

dot is worthless

the delay isn't an issue, higher delay = higher tp return, lower x-hit

you're going to be hitting for such low numbers in your tp phase on anything worth fighting that the damage is completely irrelevant, as long as you don't hit for zero

getting to 100tp is the only factor that matters

oat is just a downgraded joy due to lower proc rate

I was going to make this point in my first post of the thread, but...

The OAT weapons supposedly have a lower proc rate than Joyeuse to begin with so it's not too farfetched to think that the 2-3 weapons would also have lower proc rates than their pre-existing counterparts. I'd test it myself, but, well...

once again, could be wrong, but i think i remember reading on bg that oathrice athame has the same attack spread as mkris/ridill so it's likely that the other weapons do as well

not a certainty by any means though. true, i will wait on some attack spread data before i make a serious commitment to getting it

I've read that the MNK one is 50/30/20, not sure about others though.

A BG poster named Cassiraa tested the OA2-3 Katana and found the same 50/30/20 multi-hit distribution.

http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90728&page=71
(Relevant posts are near the bottom of the page)

Assuming 50/30/20, that's 1.7 attacks per round, compared to Joyeuse's 1.45.

Not taking TP gain per hit into account (Some elitist will call me out for making this remark),
220/1.45=152 delay on Joyeuse
252/1.70=155 delay on Khanda.

Taking into account 57% Haste (22%+20%+15%)

152*(1.00-.57) = 152*.43 = 66 delay on Joyeuse
155*(1.00-.57) = 155*.43 = 67 delay on Khanda

Someone feel free to do the sTP math, if you wish.


-Editted for incorrect source.

Khanda has 264 delay, both OAx weapons have +12 delay augment

Asdf.

Okay without doing any math, that immediately puts Joyeuse ahead as far as attack speed goes.

:P

So 2-3 will win for atonement spam hands down. I'll agree on that. The last point I want to bring up is if PLD gets a physical WS that beats Atonement, what would be better in that situation? seroius question, Still got 19 levels anything could happen.

Doubt they will.

Sword dmg in general is too low for a physical ws to pull ahead.

Within the limits of our understanding of the damage equations, base damage does not affect how often you hit for zero damage.

This is purely controlled by pdif (which is your attack).

A few people have suggested base D does affect it, but they have never been able to prove it with maths or experimentation.

Joytoy averages 1.5 attack rounds per swing, whereas the OAT sword is 1.9.

But you also acount for the delay, 264 is 15% slower to swing.

Joytoy reaches 100tp in 17 hits, the OAT sword in 15.

So assuming no haste joy will reach 100TP in (((17/1.5)*224)/60) 42.31, but the OAT sword will do it in (((15/1.9)*264)/60) 34.73 seconds.

You must have been typing that for a very long time, lol.

Edit: Also, for as long as I can remember, Joyeuse has had a 45% proc rate, so 1.45 attack rounds per swing, and 1.7 for Khanda, assuming 50:30:20.

The sword beats Joyeuse in a High level situation only, Ie: when Atonement is your only resource. If its something you can physically damage even through melee DoT (even ignoring ws) then it'll fall way behind since even Atonement loses its wow factor on lower enemies.

When do you take a pld to anything you can tp burn?

When do you campaign or solo