Reisenjima T4s

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Reisenjima T4s
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 Fenrir.Montaeg
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By Fenrir.Montaeg 2016-02-25 16:50:36
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Verda said: »
Do you think it bugged out or is pawn, knight, bishop related to some famous chess move? I used to be in chess club but doesn't make sense to me I know there is 2 and 3 move checkmates but those use pawns and queens. Mainly wondered if it can be replicated. In either case, congratulations on your win.

This pattern would not fit the opening you are thinking about. That's with a pawn/bishop/queen. A lot of standard openings involve pawn > knight > bishop though, but nothing that checkmates that quickly.
 Fenrir.Cherrywine
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By Fenrir.Cherrywine 2016-02-25 17:02:04
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Thinking more on it, I do doubt myself a bit more. Kammavaca's adds have a similar mechanic wherein if you kill them in a specific order they no longer spawn, and that fight also doesn't signal success with !! or any other notification.
SCIENCE needed!!!
 Asura.Loire
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By Asura.Loire 2016-02-25 19:34:03
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Sylph.Jeanpaul said: »
Definitely good news if there's a way to reduce the amount of adds. The idea of fighting something that requires nearly the full 30 min and minimal room for error was quite a motivation killer.
I found it quite the opposite really.
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 Fenrir.Ramzus
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By Fenrir.Ramzus 2016-02-25 22:14:05
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I'll update the OP sometime this weekend hopefully with all the relevant info on the missing NMs now that I have first hand experience with all of them. I don't like blindly copying strategies without really having done it myself either but fortunately the thread is still short so it's not like it's hard to read through the thread. I'm still a little unsure on Schah since we got that cheesy *** kill on it, but I think I have a good idea on what to write.

Did anyone test to see if you can super tank the adds? We were gonna just do PLD/WAR and super tank instead of /BLU and dealing with the hate loss
 Sylph.Jeanpaul
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By Sylph.Jeanpaul 2016-02-25 23:23:41
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Asura.Loire said: »
Sylph.Jeanpaul said: »
Definitely good news if there's a way to reduce the amount of adds. The idea of fighting something that requires nearly the full 30 min and minimal room for error was quite a motivation killer.
I found it quite the opposite really.
Well, I'm all for a crazy challenge, but a challenge where there's zero room for people who aren't perfect, including mules, doesn't click with me.
 Fenrir.Ramzus
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By Fenrir.Ramzus 2016-02-25 23:29:55
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I don't think that's necessarily true. Our first real attempt ever (i.e. me not dualboxing the PLD and playing PLD for the first time ever) we got to the Mantri with 15 min left, and at least 3 or 4 people were multiboxing and there was quite a bit of messiness. Assuming my /WAR strategy works, the fight should be not very hard at all supertanking the adds. The biggest problem was the PLD losing hate when multiple adds were on him.
 Sylph.Jeanpaul
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By Sylph.Jeanpaul 2016-02-25 23:35:26
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Fenrir.Ramzus said: »
I don't think that's necessarily true. Our first real attempt ever (i.e. me not dualboxing the PLD and playing PLD for the first time ever) we got to the Mantri with 15 min left, and at least 3 or 4 people were multiboxing and there was quite a bit of messiness. Assuming my /WAR strategy works, the fight should be not very hard at all supertanking the adds. The biggest problem was the PLD losing hate when multiple adds were on him.
That's good to hear. I think it was really just certain testimonials describing some of the fights as being too close to allow for even a few errors.
 Fenrir.Ramzus
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By Fenrir.Ramzus 2016-02-25 23:43:04
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it's definitely significantly harder than the other 6, but i do think that as long as you are well organized it's very possible to do reasonably. i think we took down Schah in about 7 minutes once the adds were down (although i think we had bolster for some of it?) and vex pretty much crippled all of its tp moves.

i think tyche's group used 2-3 blms, but if you can afford using 4 blms for fights involving death it significantly speeds it up since you can death in pairs and never ever have to use comet.

again, this all entirely depends on whether /war works or not
 Fenrir.Montaeg
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By Fenrir.Montaeg 2016-02-26 06:05:50
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Pretty sure we used 2 bolsters for the main NM cause we only needed one to clear the adds (and we had 3 GEOs).
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By Arcto 2016-02-26 07:23:31
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Was kaz's idris equipped though????
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By Colossusx 2016-02-27 07:29:02
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Any of the T4s req RUN tank? Or is PLD good enough for all.
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 Bahamut.Tychefm
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By Bahamut.Tychefm 2016-02-27 09:17:24
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We did basically all but Erinys with PLD. but Ramzus tanked that with PLD, too. So PLD is good to go. Just need a 100% interrupt set for PLD/BLU for certain fights.

JPs seem to love their eregon RUNs tho. They used them for a lot of the fights.


Quote:
i think tyche's group used 2-3 blms

Ya we used only 2 BLMs for nukes and 1 SCH with them for the good buffs. Other SCH was in PLD party. 3 able BLMs are definetly a fair exchange for having 1 more person in Party.
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By Colossusx 2016-02-27 09:20:20
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Thanks. Looking to start soon on them, and just wanted to make sure since most vids I see have PLD tanks.
 Sylph.Shadowlina
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By Sylph.Shadowlina 2016-02-28 11:44:31
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The JPs i just played with Vinipata either got extremely lucky twice. but they got an extremely fast Stance change from Rakasha -> Yaksha.
As a result they managed to zerge it down in 6 minutes.

OFC they hard bards on sleeping duty, got a few resisted so had a RUN grabbing them, in case they woke up during the zerge.

By far one easier, in comparison to some of them where if a stuns missed or mewing lullaby runs over.

We also did it kinda of backwards in the sense we had tank up top and BLMs at the bottom of the Hill at #2, which meant for extreme Drastic WHM plays, and myself who was on GEO having to cover heal at times too.
The WHM also moved in the middle too which didn't help me

I was not told that i needed to help with status ailments, but seeing the WHM was using sacrifice anyways, and had capped magic haste Indi-haste, wasn't too bad, although he did die, so as i said, i had to cover heal.

I've seen only 1 English video of a kill of Vinipata, hopefully going to get a recording of the Mandy SOON.
(From my understanding these videos help some people when it comes to organizing strategy)

Here's Vini from our backwards? PoV:
YouTube Video Placeholder

(If its low quality, its cause its still processing)
 Fenrir.Snaps
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By Fenrir.Snaps 2016-02-29 11:48:35
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Sylph.Jeanpaul said: »
Fenrir.Ramzus said: »
Sylph.Jeanpaul said: »
Fenrir.Ramzus said: »
I should mention that all THF were basically geared from their other jobs without actually dedicated gear (they all geared it from their BLUs/NINs etc) and they all had 0 JP. So if we were to use 3x Aeonic THF with 2100 JP we could probably get the fight down to sub 15 minutes no problem.
Vajra performs much better than Aeneas in these situations

Vajra may be better due to the 30% SA/TA buff, but Aeonics are also a pretty massive boost with the 500 TP Bonus, and are also free. Vajra also loses the luster of not having the AM3 work since the only hit that matters is the first. I suspect any of RMA are fine, and Mandau is probably lolMandau.

Point is, anything is better than our izhikooh thf X_X
For a THF, the priority of mainhand daggers in this situation would be New Vajra > Old Vajra > Aeneas > New Twashtar > Max Taming Sari or New Mandau > whatever. AM is irrelevant unless you're using Mandau, which it would need to keep up with Sari. For offhand, it'd be New Twashtar > Magian TP Bonus Dagger > Max Taming Sari > whatever.

But yeah, Izhiikoh is pretty dated these days. Even a minimal augment Sari is better than all other Adoulin knives.

Long delayed response here, but I don't think Vajra is BiS for this application. The Sneak Attack/Trick Attack bonuses are applied outside of the fTP multiplier. Rudra's has a 13.0 multiplier at 3000 TP. Ignoring triple attacks and the offhand hit, you would need 650 DEX before the Sneak Attack bonus overcame this (possibly more if fSTR isn't floored). The way I simplified this will favor Aeneas although I didn't even mention how much WS TP +500 is going to tremendously going to help.

I would say Aeneas mainhand is the clear winner although Twashtar will be close or possibly better than this. Off handing magian means that any WS with TP > 1750 (if you're using Moonshade) will not benefit from the Weaponskill TP +500 on Aeneas. The 50 DEX on Twashtar will overcome the 16 damage delta and then some. Wings II give TP +2000 to you and nearby party members, Wings I give TP +1000. With six of these, a good Wing order would be something like the following.

(TA Rudra's > Wings II > SA Rudra's > Wings I) x people

You'll get at least 900 TP waiting for Trick Attack to be up again (due to Tactician's Roll.) So for all of those WS with the Wings II, you will have at least 2000+ TP and 1900+ for Wings I. You will basically be capped on fTP until you run out of wings with just Magian offhand, and by then (with good gear on all of your THFs), it might be dead. You might be able to make a case for Aeneas/Twashtar, although I feel like losing weaponskill TP + 500 would be a significant blow. You might even be able to make a case for Skinflayer over Aeonic if you have great luck with augments.
 Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia
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By Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia 2016-02-29 11:54:50
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Fenrir.Snaps said: »

Wings II give TP +2000 to you and nearby party members, Wings I give TP +1000. With six of these, a good Wing order would be something like the following.

Wings II give 1000tp and Wings I give 500tp as base values, however they are affected by Store TP I believe.
 Fenrir.Snaps
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By Fenrir.Snaps 2016-02-29 12:24:47
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Ah, it seems you're right. In that case then I think it would be hard to argue against anything but Magian offhand. Also, idling in Store TP is best... yee.
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2016-02-29 12:57:12
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Fenrir.Snaps said: »
Long delayed response here, but I don't think Vajra is BiS for this application. The Sneak Attack/Trick Attack bonuses are applied outside of the fTP multiplier.
Do we have a source for this? The only Vajra testing I found focused on melee hits and was not especially thorough. I haven't seen anything to rule out the possibility of a critdmg bonus or even a unique multiplier. Would only take ~half an hour to conclusively nail it down at this point, it just seems that it either hasn't been done, wasn't documented, or I simply missed it.

If it is a DEX/AGI multiplier then that's really quite underwhelming for this application.

edit: Found some quick testing by Byrth that doesn't seem to line up with an af/af3 hands style multiplier. Would like to see further testing, shouldn't take long to nail down the exact mechanics with the new pDIF equations.
 Fenrir.Snaps
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By Fenrir.Snaps 2016-02-29 13:03:51
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I don't have one, so I can't test it. I am just assuming it works the same way as any other Sneak Attack enhancing gear. Also, non-Aeneas THF/WAR can get 87 Store TP from gear, THF/SAM would be 102. So you could potentially toss the Aeneas for a really good Skinflayer.
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2016-02-29 13:04:46
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Check my edit.

somebody go poke things for science thx

edit again: actually it can't be critdmg+ from Byrth's numbers, has to be a straight 30% multiplier. Critdmg comes out too low.
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By Fenrir.Snaps 2016-02-29 13:09:20
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I see. In that case then it would certainly be BiS although I would be interested to see more recent testing.
 Sylph.Jeanpaul
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By Sylph.Jeanpaul 2016-02-29 16:36:14
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Vajra is definitely a unique +30% damage to SA and TA, calculated separately. Using Mandalic Stab with Vajra would likely overcome Rudra's, even at high TP amounts, depending on how much Def Down you can keep going. You'd likely need Bolster Frailty for Vajra's Rudra's to overtake Mandalic.
 Fenrir.Snaps
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By Fenrir.Snaps 2016-02-29 19:26:27
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I am actually curious as to whether Bolster Frailty will be necessary, and along those lines, if /WAR is a better choice.
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By Sylph.Systematicchaos 2016-03-05 21:54:28
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For Onychophora, in the note it says you did "Wind->Ice->Fire->Dark->Ice->"

Is one of these ice a typo and you used something else?

We went Wind >> Water (accident)>> Ice >> Dark >> Fire >> Wind >> Ice (With lots of absorbs) and it went doomvoid on the second Ice, so I'm trying to confirm if everyone is rotating 5 different skillchains, since the moment we repeated ice after 3 others we ate doomvoid.
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By Odin.Llewelyn 2016-03-05 22:12:49
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Should be 5, yes. From our experience, every element except Wind and Dark did pretty ***damage. Could use anything in their place, probably. Also keep in mind if you so choose, you could do one of the non-Wind/Dark elements without bursting just to get it out of the way faster and get set up for an Aero or Death volley sooner. We especially used that method below 50% while it was in magic absorb mode so we could immediately do non-crappy bursts once it went back to physical absorb.
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 Fenrir.Ramzus
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By Fenrir.Ramzus 2016-03-05 22:17:16
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The second ice is a typo, it should be Thunder. I fixed the OP, I thought I did when Lyra first pointed it out but apparently not.
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By Sylph.Systematicchaos 2016-03-05 22:43:00
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Thanks for confirming. That threw us for a loop so we just played with doomvoid for awhile. Funfact, if he kills everyone with doomvoid he'll immediately open with it when you engage him again.
 Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia
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By Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia 2016-03-05 23:38:50
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For anyone else with the people for it, Onychophora is absurdly easy with a pet setup. Puppet tank ignores literally everything he does while Beastmasters and Summoners razor fang and pred. claw it to death. Zero chance of failure unless your people can't figure out to stop doing ready moves during tp moves or after earth magic.

I'm under the impression this is an easy NM anyway, but pet stuff is fun.

Also, Teles is quite simple with pet strats also. Bring a bard to Scherzo your Beastmasters, let the puppet tank it. Easy peasy.
 Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia
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By Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia 2016-03-06 20:54:28
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Double post to bump and ask a question. Also add some details.

On Erinys, is there any particular reason people don't seem to chain Rudras? Or do they? I watched a video but I don't think I saw any Darkness from it. Also, is there any reason people don't seem to bother bursting a Noctohelix on a Darkness chain? I was doing some math on how much TP he generates, and if you can force his attacks to do 0, it's easy enough to generate small amounts of tp. Just Monk's roll can cap your Subtle Blow, which does affect spells incase anyone didn't know.

Also, if you are using THF/COR for Quickdraw, THF can use Culverin and Cannonshells. Ought to give you 240tp per QD before store tp, which is nice. I made a set that gives 57stp with QD recast and the mitts that add tp to QD. Throw in a 11 Sam roll and you are getting 575 tp per QD.

As for Teles, a PUP tank negates just about everything shitty she does if using melee/rangers. No enmity reset business from spells that way. We used Beastmasters and killed her in 15 minutes. Kinda long I guess but it was good. Give the Beastmasters Scherzo/Earthen Armor and Clarich call or whatever it is does almost no damage.
 Bahamut.Tychefm
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By Bahamut.Tychefm 2016-03-06 21:09:44
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Reason people don't bother with MBs or SCs on Erinys is that it just has a huge damage cut for magic. Fully buffed Blizzard Vs do like 1000.

Only SMN or BST shenanigans are a viable option to SA/TA orgy.
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