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You have no argument. Ok, so there's a parallel between me doing something that's blatantly against the rules and deserving of a ban according to TOS and SMN burns. Got it. Now elaborate on what that means and why it's relevant. I'm not making your arguments for you.

The same can be said about someone investing in a Weapon or HQ gear then realize it became trivial and ended up a /lockstyle!

The argument is right there:

-AC/AF burn is abusing one category of the game with zero risk and strategy.
-There are many players that do the same with multiple mules from a single screen with zero margin of error.

-They are both a form of abuse.

That is a valid argument.

It may very well be a valid argument, but what are you arguing with it? What's your conclusion on SMN and how does it relate to that? I agree that they are both a form of abuse, but you've drawn no conclusion from that..

My conclusion is trying to shift the debate from the emotional/moral aspect of the nerf and provide a valid draft of "balance" like what Brixy discussed earlier.
Keeping in mind that there are people who identify strongly with SMN.

Great, let's hear it. You've still said nothing of substance, it seems like you just wanted to drag me into an argument. I see no draft of balance, I see no suggestion of what to do with SMN, you just keep making indirect attacks on how I play.

No I'm not, maybe I'm trying to give Brixy's proposal a "Bump"?
Maybe the discussion should revolve around the functionality of the "Nerf"?
Also people who are calling for a Nerf should provide the evidence/proposal to do so, I didn't call for anything Im simply analyzing the debates.

If you're gonna start ***, at least be an adult about it. These veiled, passive-aggressive comments and the subsequent victim theater when you're called out are all getting really old.


Summoner's AC zergs invalidate content, which is the same issue I discussed last time we had a huge shitshow over game balance about a year ago.

Thanks Proth. I feel like I am browsing facebook all over haha.

It's obvious smn has 2 problems at the moment:

#1 it's so powerful at zerging without much if any negative effects compare to every other job.

#2 it doesn't have much to offer outside of said use.

The solution is simple: fix #2 and nerf #1. The question is how exactly.

Considering how SE has been "inspired" for the last decade or so, I don't really hold much hope for it.

I believe the correct way to do it is to break away from the traditional tank/DD/healer/support roles and put the job into a specialist niche the will out class everyone under certain conditions That people encountered a fair bit.

In the old D&D. Monks were squishy compare to tanks and aren't really that great as a DD. What they specialized on was mage killers. They can resist most enfeebles, moving at high speed, ignore any resistance a mage can put up and deal stunning attacks to prevent the mages from casting.

Smn and other pet jobs are a little bit of a rare breed. The classic case that make them weaker than most is because pet don't scale well with buffs that other DD normally get. They don't do enough damage. They might do okay in low or no buff situations. Pup can tank and smn deals damage while Bst is in the middle.

Like every single job balance discussion happened in the past, it isn't SEs fault that it's not fixed, it's the community's aversion to job adjustments (I mean nerf, but I should stop using this word just because).


Anti nerf people will never be happy, no matter how small and irrelevant the nerfs are.

by personal experience, smn, or rather ac/af is due to be nerfed into oblivion within 1-2 updates.
reason: I hopped the bandwagon, and started investing gil into nirvana.
past experiences showed that nerfs usually happen just in time for me not getting to benefit from an abusable gameplay situation.
the first time this happened was in 2004 I think, when ws tp return, in particular pentathrust, was nerfed the day before I hit drg49. w.

You need to not wait so long to abuse the system. It's been 8 months since smn was considered broken as ***, and you wait till now...

That's the exact reason they wait. To get more people into it, then ruin it. Majority won't ever touch smn again in the entire lifespan of the rest of the game, have to milk it.

Get in on the ground floor on day zero for the next broken as *** thing. Though i don't think anything can ever match the brokenness of conduit.

If a job's niche is to be the ultimate zerg weapon, why is that not a legitimate role? If it was the best DD for every situation then I could see an argument for it being an issue, but the plain fact of the matter is that its not even close to being true.

Its also an absolute truth that without quality in, and coordination with the rest of the group that most zergs are doomed to rapid failure. Please go and zerg some Schah or Albumen without a really good RUN and see how far you get!

In the final analysis, AC zerging is a very one-dimensional strategy. When it works it works great, but there's no absolute requirement to employ it, and outside of situations where that 30s burst of power is enough to get the win, what the party is left with is definitively sub-par dps-wise. This makes it an easy thing to subvert, as evidenced by Omen and Ambuscade.

Lastly, it needs to be recognized that SMN as a job gets practically no benefit to itself from Reisenjima mobs. Their aeonic is worthless, and the only pieces of armor or accessories of use come from Ru'Aun and Zi'tah NM that offer minimal resistance to any half-competent setup.

The truth is, and this I think is what's driving all the butt-hurt, SMN-zerging is actually far more beneficial to every other DD in the game than them. The only exception really being BST who also have a sh*t-sandwich of an Aeonic for their troubles.

More Aeonics = better and more competitive DD's. Not better SMN.

It already has a niche role, it's an absolute monster in pet oriented setups. SMN's avatar wards should be applied to pets and masters instead of just being applied to players, that would make them an even more brutal force when paired with PUP's and BST's.

Honestly the best solution is to treat BP's kinda like elemental nukes and enfeebles, successive uses of the same BP generate resistance. One SMN poping AC is still going to be a force, multiple SMN's poping AC are going to slam into a wall. Multiple SMN's working together to form SC's and MB on them won't face an issue. That would stop the abuse without harming the jobs versatility.

Now all those relying on that abuse to get stuff done are going to start shrieking against that in 3 ... 2... 1...

Only thing i see here are elitists getting butthurt.

Found the smn

so many page of butt hurt and crying, this will never ends as long people will find the next niche of strategy then another group will come out crying.

The end of the infamous Bonanza Balls.

That's... neat. 250 stacks of skirmish stones. That can be worth a billion gil.

Forever leaftips!

Lmao like S-E has a clue how to balance anything. Man you guys are delusional.

Balacing an MMO like this is difficult. That is why newer MMO stick to the triangle system of tank , healer and dps. Every job is just a reskin of each of those 3 classes with a rotation of simon says ability tree.

My LS and I are ready for anything.

SE is probably working on multiple adjustments.

They will release a bulk Nerf/Balance all at once for more than one job.

PUP will get another pupdate..

Nobody is doing t4 for the drops and they certainly aren't doing them for the challenge. If these NMs weren't tied to shiny weapons, nobody would be talking about them or SMN nerfs at all. Can you name a t4 drop that would warrant the effort let alone the discussion? You notice how little activity there is on the forums about master trials?Nobody cares about them. They don't lead to cool weapons that make the game easier. This is entirely about Aeonics.

There may not be new harder content (highly debateable) but there is definitely new more popular content that cannot be AC zerged in the form of Ambuscade VD and Omen. We'll see in a few days, but I'm guessing that iLvl Dynamis will again have more drops that people care about more than t4s and be less SMN zerg friendly just like Omen and Ambuscade are.


T4s are the middle. They aren't new content any more. You don't keep people playing by building an impenetrable wall. You keep people playing by building new walls every so often and lowering the previous walls so that the people who couldn't get over them can progress. The game would have died eons ago if 99% of the players still couldn't beat AV or PW.

The people who care about Master Trials already talk with other people who do Master Trials. There are already videos on how to do each zone, and there is less room for different setups (you can do slight variations, for the most part) given that you can only bring 6 people total and your outside buffs last for 1/6th of the entire run at most.

At least 80 people on FFXIAH have done them, which is surprising to me given the high entry requirements.

Balanced in the sense that a lot more jobs are viable in this era of the game. There's still a problem of balance in gear required to get to that point though, that's what I can agree with you there.

Only MNK and maybe NIN are in a weird state right now. I'm sure NINs have found their use, they're just being actual ninjas about it. I'm sure theres some potential for some super safe Subtle blow strats or something!

WAR/DRK/SAM - High buff DD or Zerg

WHM - Best healer

BLM & SCH - Mana burn Skillchain parties

RDM - Enfeebler for low man or safer strategies vs 145-150 mobs. Versatile party member. Decent enough DPS for the rest. Decent solo options. I'd argue RDM is a solid option to help not so geared players reach acc'/macc requirements. The problem is no one really wants set up for this scenario because people are more concerned about gearing to the teeth.

THF - Still always handy w/ TH & soloing stuff for drops. Has a niche of stealing 2hrs. It's a bit out of luck vs 145-150 mobs

PLD, RUN & PUP - Tanks ***/Resists ***/Can Do nice DPS if given the opportunity.

BST - People overrate this nerf. It's just bandwagon BSTs were so used to AFK mash button strats they couldn't adjust to running in and out, having a hybrid -DT set and actually having to bring a WHM & sometimes a PLD. It's still probably the most efficient and easily accessible soloer to catch back up in the game. 1-2 of the dedicated pet shell has used BSTs for 145-150 content. It just took people who actually knew the damn job and actually build Pet Acc sets to make it work.

BRD GEO COR - Buffing/sleeping/enfeebling/occasional DPS/bunch of versatile ***. You know the drill

RNG - Gun/Arrow burns pretty viable for a lot of things

DRG - Respectable enough DPS in high buff. Really damn good in low buff situations.

SMN - No Comment.

BLU - Versatile as ***. Can hang with the rest of them. You've all talked enough about this job.

DNC - set this job up for skillchains. Magic happens. Haste samba and steps are a plus.

Every other era this game had 6+ jobs that no one would even see doing things. This is the first time in this game I felt like the suggestion "level what you want" actually carried any weight.