The Last Dance II: The Show Must Go On

I lied. This: http://www.ffxiah.com/item/25849/dashing-subligar

It's not rare/ex anymore, so enjoy getting Stinky Subligars and doing some laundry with someone who has Smithing 98+.

I really appreciate the Herculean set for its DT and Fast Cast set upgrades.

So are those sets the new "goal" for TP/WS sets?

Work (the thing that pays my bills) is crazy at the moment, so all I'm doing these days is pretty much sleep, work, and LS event (if scheduled). New sets (and updated guide) are coming in 2 weeks for holidays, I hope.

So far, as far as I can see, if you are _very_ lucky, Herculean can outdo even Adhemar +1 in some slots with the right augments. The catch is that the "right augments" are difficult to get, because you need to get lucky with 4-5 rolls at the same time. So if you fancy your luck, Herculean can do wonders for you.

According to Wiki, only 1 shadow, for 30 seconds.

Slightly disappointed with the 1 shadow, but I am curious...
For tanking things, would a lower tier of Waltz spam be beneficial for the extra shadow(s)?

Anyone have any updated Waltz Sets that take advantage of this subligar?

Ear 5 (Roundel)
Body 15 (Maxixi+1)
Hands 5 (Taeon Aug)
Back 5 (Toetapper)
Legs 10 (Dashing)
Feet 10 (Maxixi)

Conveniently places us at 50% on the dot. (+9 received from Ring+Body)
Leaves Ammo, Head, Neck, Ear1, Ring1, Waist all available.
Personally, I still lug around my Anwig Salade, but I'm curious what others are using, what your max Waltz 3 results are.

ItemSet 340271

Taeon Gloves with potency +5% and CHR+10, obv.

I'm not focusing on self-targeted Waltzes too much, because I don't have the inventory slots and more often than not, it's to save other people instead of myself. If you're into maximising them, because you have a spaceship controlling dnc.lua, you can use these:

handler's earring +1
asklepian ring
passion jacket

Using Passion Jacket however means you need to make up for those Waltz potency +15% with Horos Tiara +1, Valseur's Ring, and Sonia's Plectrum. I don't have that inventory space, but your mileage may vary.

I also don't have numbers right now, because I'm not logged on and I don't feel like doing so just to Convert and Waltz myself. Especially since I'd have to change jobs and pull gear etc.

inb4 I don't make sense for carrying Aristo Belt and Unmoving Collar, but not Asklepian Ring. Enchanter Earring +1 and Carbuncle Ring +1 are sitting in my Wardrobe; don't ask me why I have those in there, too.

/edit: I guess you could be fun and make a Waltz potency piece with CHR+ by augmenting Herculean Gloves. ***, now I have to do that.

Thanks Skudo, so tonight I farmed the NQ Unmoving Collar, NQ Handler Earring, bought Aristo Belt, NQ carby Ring, and Tsar Egg. *My Taeon Gloves aren't Chr Aug'd...yet.

Hume/Sam - Self target
Waltz 5: 1901 (I think I capped?, 1969 max hp, and was at 30ish)
Waltz 4: 1486
Waltz 3: 1022
Waltz 2: 623
Waltz 1: 335

For those who were curious the 5 pieces above added 68hp to my Waltz 3, if my memory serves.

Out of curiosity, same set, removed both rings: (NQ Carb+Asklepian)
Waltz 3: 993
w/nq Carb: 1003
w/Asklepian: 1012
Both: 1022

So you can decide if the HP is worth 2 carby rings to be more 'people friendly' or Asklepian to be selfish.

Now... with these numbers, I decide to peek & tweak my old script adjustments in the Mote.Utility file that handles Waltz adjustments, to the following:

The rest is only for people who are interested in adjusting their Gearswap, automatic waltz adjuster script. (The one that picks the right Waltz based on amount of HP missing, to save the most TP possible)

Small tip for anyone who goes after Tsar's/Imperial Egg...

it makes you blink... even through lockstyle.

not gonna go into pros and cons of this -cough- being unfortunately paired up with horrible WHMs that complain about blinking -cough- but if you need an ammo that won't have you blink, try Light Satchet

THANK YOU soooo much for the information, especially the varying HQ HQ2 HQ3 teir sets for us to work on. This has been the most helpful thread in my 16 years of playing MMOs! So much thanks!

Quick question. I mostly just duo with a friend because he's really all I've got and I'm too shy (and I'm a Dancer) to join parties. So keeping in mind I don't do any of the super endgame stuff:

I got a Chiner's Belt +1 from goblin box and I was wondering if this would be a good belt for Rudra and/or TP? I've currently got full Taeon with all 5 pieces with TA+2, STR/DEX and some form of Att/Acc (snowslit stones hate me). Til now I either use the elemental belt or the Anguinus Belt. So, how about it? For either TP or WS and vs Windbuffet +1?

Thank you

Haha, thank you. The gear sets are somewhat outdated though; I will update them when it's holiday time.

Chiner's Belt +1 is mediocre for Rudra's Storm and TP. For TP, if you need Dual Wield still, Patentia Sash has crashed price-wise, because of Reiki Yotai. Otherwise, Windbuffet Belt +1 is superior for TP.

As for Rudra's Storm, I _think_ Artful Belt (+1) is still a very good option. There might have been something new recently, which I might have missed.

I always have Haste 2 either from my friend's Erratic Flutter or from Koru-Moru, so I don't feel like Patentia is worth my gil (I only have about 2-5m at any one time). I bit the bullet and bought the Windbuffet +1 yesterday though because I got it for 1.5m off, which was before I got this belt from the goblin which posed the question (could resell the Windbuffet, maybe for profit if the other was equal).

Thanks again, I look forward to the updated gear sets. :)

If you always have Haste 2, then all you need to cap haste, is a single march (even Joachim I believe) assuming you're using haste samba. In that scenario, Windbuffet+1 is what you want to be using.

As for parties, don't be shy. I'm convinced that Dnc is the best DD to have in Apex parties. Our ability to /war, haste samba, stutter step, cure, skillchain, tank, and pull faster than nearly every other job.

Dnc+Cor, Rudra->Leaden, Geo, Rdm, Blmx2 and we tipped the scales at 6.2M/hr yesterday with the campaign.

If I have a skillchain partner, and a Rdm who can keep up, I use a single step per mob, voke every other mob, and Animated Flourish each mob in between. Time each voke/AF with your partners SC, and it usually works out perfect. Depending on your partner, you can get off at least 1 Waltz II before every WS/SC and help the Rdm immensely.

On the other hand, if you have an accident building a party like I did yesterday... Geo, Rdm, Dnc and Blmx3 (The 3rd Blm answered to my Cor shout and I didn't realize till we got to camp)

Voke > presto/step(3FM) > PK > reverse > Evis = Darkness
Time your step with 5-6 seconds on Flourish timer
Time your first WS with 3-4 seconds on Flourish timer

Doing this, while a lot of work, we were able to keep chain consistently and hovered at 4M/hr for 90 minutes.
*Note that you might have issues locking your CP mantle, because (for me at least?) a 3FM reverse flourish was right on the verge of resulting in 900/1000 tp for the 2nd WS. So I just put mine in my TP set instead of locking it full time.

For these parties, I built a full set of Herculean gear with -PDT and as much accuracy as I could get. I use twilight/defending/vocane +4/5 herc (no body yet) to give me -41% PDT and 1136 accuracy without buffs/food. Which allows sole Sushi to cap accuracy on Apex Crabs, or at least ~95% range. Actually, I think I'm over 90% even with Cap Mantle locked, so there's some wiggle room.

Regardless, the point is, if you see someone shouting for a DD, Pld, Nin, or whatever for an Apex party, don't be shy, you can fill all those roles equally as well, if not better.

Edit to add:
For what it's worth, someone asked me to come /Run today, and use Flash instead of Voke for pulling. With Samba/Spell/Geo Haste the timer is roughly 18 seconds, which is considerably better than voke, and you don't have to bother with Animated flourish at all. They claimed flash is more hate than Voke anyways, but I'm not familiar. I did end up making an enmity set just in case. I didn't realize how little ENM was on our current gear, but for what it's worth, Emet Harness +1 has 10, Unmoving Collar+1 has another 10, if you're like me and carry your Aeolin Edge set with you, Friomisi earring has 2, Highwing Helm has 4. About 26 extra enmity from gear already in my Inv, and copy/pasted that set to Provoke/Animated/Flash just cuz.

I will say, my TP gain felt noticeable slower, but that could be because my SC partner in this specific party was another Dnc who subbed Sam, so it might just be because of the comparison. I was still noticeably faster than the Blu from the first party, and about the same as the Thf that was replaced.

Ninjas are the only partners that seem to TP faster than we can, at least of the jobs I see allowed into Apex Parties.

On that front, I have a question for the smart people.
When my main concern is TP gain, purely for curing and open/closing a SC... is there a better Dagger combination that Sarix2? The Dancer had Odium/Twatstar and combined with /Sam he seemed to TP about 50% faster than me. I assumed we were at the floor, and that delay wouldn't matter, but perhaps the OAT Atoyac would make sense for this? Or should I consider a low delay offhand.

You could always just go get Patentia yourself if you don't want to buy it. Cosmo-cleanse are just 1k now and if you kill all the things you pretty much get back all your Ancient Beast Coins.

Disclaimer: For pure maffs purposes, I'm neglecting "proper flooring". Furthermore, I'm assuming 100% hit rate; otherwise, STP+1 is valued slightly higher than DA+1%.


tl;dr: Ternion Dagger +1 and Atoyac OAT/STP is the combination that minimises cycle time, I think.

I finally implemented item set updating without having to deal with the obnoxious ffxiah.com item sets UI.

Read: New item sets soon! (And versionised in git, yay.)

I wish you wouldn't have even brought that up, lol.
Successfully augmented them with +10% Waltz Potency, allows me to ditch Taeon Gloves AND Roundel Earring for Inventory+1 to anyone interested in 1 extra Inv spot.

Though, I must admit, that Passion Jacket is interesting.
Hands 10
Legs 10
Feet 10
Cape/Earring 10
Horos Tiara+1 11

For 51% with use of Passion Jacket, but lose Anwigs -2 delay.
I guess I would have to know how much HP that extra 7% received is, before I could decide if it's worth losing Anwig. Would still need Anwig for Erase Waltz anyways...

Without Horos head, you would need a dagger with potency% to cap based on what I'm looking at. Anyone seen/read a Potency Augment on Skinflayer?

I've seen a bunch of those on Skinflayer, _I think_. I've been way more focused on getting something to cover my crappy Taming Sari with, so I skillfully ignored everything without high DMG + other useful things.

Hmm... I haven't been able to get my hands on one yet, but if you can recall, what spot did the Waltz take in the augments? I haven't augmented any weapons yet, but based on what you posted last page, I'm assuming a best case scenario of Dmg, Str, Acc, Waltz Potency?
Where it's Potency vs Triple Attack, or...?

So, went out and farmed one tonight.
First thing I noticed is that it's not Rare, so you can actually dual wield 2 of these. So, obviously I went straight to the spreadsheet to see if that's feasible and that's when I ran into a problem...

I can't get Skinflayer to beat a single Sari, yet alone 2.
How is a 136/210 dagger losing to a 125/211 dagger?

Sari has +7Str, +22Dex, 10 att, -15acc, -1% Triple Attack.
But 11 less Base Dmg.

On Apex Crabs, every Acc buff possible, Sublime+1... Hume/Sam

20Dmg, 15Str, 20Acc, 2% Triple Attack is required just to tie Sami when using Evisceration. When using PK, I have Skinflayer losing by 36 DPS, and showing a required 149Dmg (+33 Aug) just to Tie Sami.

I checked and rechecked to make sure I didn't screw something up. Oddly enough, it's actually the WS damage that's suffering most from Skinflayer main hand. PK is 87 less damage with Skinflayer than Sami.

Am I doing it wrong? On the bright side, I see a BG post that someone saw +23 Dmg on a weapon, leading them to believe the cap is 25.

I recently noticed Evis is ~100DPS more than my PK setup, which means I've been using the wrong WS for about a month. Is spamming Evis at 1000 tp the way to go, or for parser epeen, is the 1600tp PK still the best way to exploit delay efficiency?

Another stupid question...
I used some very basic math, but assuming you're perfect with berserk 3/5 minutes... Is /war actually better than /sam?
/Sam is 1315 DPS (x5=6,575)
/War is 1256 DPS Down (x2=2,512)
/War is 1469 DPS Up (x3=4,407)
(6,919) for the 5 min cycle.

Did I fudge that math by cheating DPS into a 'minute'? In my head, it extrapolates, but on paper I could be way off.

Edit to add...
It's the DEX of the Sari that cripples DPS when lost. I might have to play around with gear sets, and see why 12Dex vs 12Str is like 40 DPS in my current set.

I think there's something I'm probably missing from your post Cambion.
1600tp PK for delay efficiency? But why? PK damage doesn't scale with TP.
I'm unable to tell if nowadays it's worth or not to use "delay WS" strategies like during the Rudra's golden days, but regardless of this if you decide to go for it, you should pick a WS whose damage scales with TP, like Evisceration or Rudra.
Doing PK at 1000 or 2000 or 3000 is exactely the same WS damage :x

I know this is obvious, so probably I'm missing something from your post but I don't get what D:

I think he meant rudra...i hope, no reason to pk with overflow.

Ignore the 1600tp PK, I was confusing 2 different conversations from pages 15-17. (Holding TP to kill the Mob with WS to avoid 2 sec delay, and Tp thresholds where Rudra beats Evis, and the Att:Def ratio where PK accels)

For those of you who are smart enough to and avoid this augment system, but would still like to live vicariously the less intelligent people like myself... (Nothing but Augments below)
Tl;dr This augment system sucks, don't waste your time/money.

Depends on your ATK/DEF ratio. It's either Evisceration or Pyrrhic Kleos.


Again, depends on your ATK/DEF ratio. The first buffs you get in srs bizniz spots often are Chaos Roll and Frailty. With just that, Dia IV, and Box Step, you usually cap ATK/DEF, if not long before that already.

The main benefit of /WAR is having DA+10% when not using Fan Dance.



Likely dDEX and its effects on critical hit rate.

Okay, so then under the conditions outlined, for Skinflayer to beat out a perfect Sari you'll need:

15Dmg, 15Dex, 4% TA
20Dmg, 15Dex, 2% TA
20Dmg, 10Dex, 4% TA
25Dmg, 15Dex
25Dmg, 10Dex, 3% TA

Just as a guideline for people who decide to go this path, these are rough baselines of what your goals should be, using my gear/spreadsheet. (Any Acc/Att is gravy, all of the above are pretty much dead ties with Perfect Sari) (Take note that 15dmg 10dex, is the same as 10dmg 15dex, as I would never have guessed, and many would choose the former at face value, just don't get fooled by Dmg vs Dex)

*And you would still offhand Sari, even 2 of the absolute best dagger augments (25,15,4) wouldn't beat out Sari offhand... unless you also throw in some attack and accuracy, but good luck getting 2 of those daggers, yet alone 1.

**Keep in mind this is assuming capped accuracy. In reality, a large enough accuracy boost on the dagger(s), combined with similar augs on herculean gear, opens up a new path of DPS discussion where Dnc has the ability to eat meat on things other jobs are using sublime sushi for...

I don't think anyone is even considering to outdo a perfect Sari. (Or rather: I hope so.) The appeal is for people who have a mediocre Sari at best. Like this one:

/comfort

RNGesus can be cruel.

I guess I misunderstood you then?




I have a perfect Sari main hand, and the exact same 'mediocre' Sari offhand you just posted (9/6/9) as I mentioned above:


So, perhaps instead of (or rather in addition to) what it takes to beat a perfect Sari, here's what it takes to beat a mediocre Sari (9/6/9)

PerfectSari+PerfectSari: 1390.825
PerfectSari+MediocreSari: 1368.803

In order for Skinflayer to match a 'mediocre' Sari:

20Dmg, 15Dex
20Dmg, 11Dex, 2TA
15Dmg, 10Dex, 4TA
15Dmg, 15Dex, 2TA
10Dmg, 15Dex, 4TA

That should give you a baseline, and again, any Acc/Att is gravy on top. Because of the importance of DEX on this augment, the only stone worth using is Taupe, which allows the 15 attribute to occur.

*This is assuming you mainhand the above Skinflayer options, and are offhanding a perfect Sari, using Evis.

I have "my" Skinflayer with TA+2 instead of WSACC+1 outdoing capped Taming Sari on Evisceration by something like 5 dps. Nobody in their sane mind would try to make that happen, I guess.

If I have some time, I'll try to find the conditions for that to happen. I'm almost certain it's not "generally better" though.

To clarify 'your' Skinflayer's full Augments are?

20Dmg, 14Str, 20Acc, TA2%?

Yes.