The Last Dance II: The Show Must Go On

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The Last Dance II: The Show Must Go On
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 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2019-04-24 09:47:05
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20k + another 20k is not 200% that's 100%

And if you were doing 20k with taming/twash/terp/aen you will not do 40k with tauret. unless you're changing much more than just a weapon.
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By 2019-04-24 09:57:06
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 Leviathan.Katriina
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By Leviathan.Katriina 2019-04-24 11:01:10
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Sure, also; maybe it should've been mentioned before, that Evisceration was never even close to these numbers prior to PDL addition, maximum AVG was about 10-15k or something.

What was once a 10-15k WS before PDL now hits 20k with PDL and 35-40K (didn't even include the spikes of 48K) with Tauret+PDL.

But again, people tend to skip the history of things then call out on others for saying how much things have changed.
Still won't explain how that increase happened (which is a fact that its more than 50%).

K, noted.
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By SimonSes 2019-04-24 13:46:07
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If you say you go there and test stuff yourself, I dare you to go and test Evisceration damage. Same buffs, same mobs. First 50-100 Eviscerations with Tauret/Taming, then same amount with Taming/Tauret (Unless you have R0 Twashtar, then you can use it instead of Taming).
Looking forward to see that double damage with Tauret, but Im 100% sure I will be disappointed.
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By Spaitin 2019-05-02 06:37:50
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Something I am a little concerned about, just did 15 ambu runs with GEO COR BARD WHM RUNE DNC and had evis averaging 32.2k Fury/frail sam/fighters saber dance HM VM attack attack boost dex entrust dex. Might have to test it more, but the estimates on DPS might all be off. did not use building flourish.

Side note, if you switched the weapons and had tauret in offhand had it averaging around 21k. so yeah a pretty clear 50% increase.
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By SimonSes 2019-05-02 08:36:28
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Thx Spaitin. I'm starting to really like you for those tests :) I wanted to respond to Katriina 35-40k Evisceration calling it BS exaggeration, but had no evidence, but now I have your post :D

Another BS was Evis going from 10-15k to 20k just from PDL change.
PDL trait is only + 0.2 max pdif. That's a 6% increase for DNC. Now +10% max pdif from neck is very little improvement too, because you are dropping ele gorget for it and ele gorget was 7.5% increase.
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By eliroo 2019-05-02 08:41:00
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Spaitin said: »
Something I am a little concerned about, just did 15 ambu runs with GEO COR BARD WHM RUNE DNC and had evis averaging 32.2k Fury/frail sam/fighters saber dance HM VM attack attack boost dex entrust dex. Might have to test it more, but the estimates on DPS might all be off. did not use building flourish.

Are you concerned your damage is a bit lower? We noticed a similar drop off in average damage vs. this months ambuscade, I think the mob may have some minor % of DT or something else because our weaponskills were doing a bit below what we'd normally see at pdif.
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By Spaitin 2019-05-02 08:51:47
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eliroo said: »
Spaitin said: »
Something I am a little concerned about, just did 15 ambu runs with GEO COR BARD WHM RUNE DNC and had evis averaging 32.2k Fury/frail sam/fighters saber dance HM VM attack attack boost dex entrust dex. Might have to test it more, but the estimates on DPS might all be off. did not use building flourish.

Are you concerned your damage is a bit lower? We noticed a similar drop off in average damage vs. this months ambuscade, I think the mob may have some minor % of DT or something else because our weaponskills were doing a bit below what we'd normally see at pdif.

No my average WS is like 5k higher than what the suggested WS average should be. I did notice the drop off towards the ends of fights with whatever that ability was, still, 5k above suggested WS average. I was getting info saying that evis should be around 26-28k average. I was a good healthy chunk above that. I am suggesting that the spreadsheet/sim used in this thread is wrong.

next test ill eventualy be doing evis at 3k tp 100 times with abnoba and 100 with meg on something with sub 1k HP. so far it looks like spreadsheet was wrong on that too, but i dont have enough data yet. I just need to find the desire to do it one of these days.
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By Spaitin 2019-05-02 09:35:02
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Leviathan.Katriina said: »
Tauret/Twashtar: 7187.285
WS AVG:27494

Tauret/Taming Sari:6872.997
WS AVG:27056
These are the suggested WS average with those buffs.
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By SimonSes 2019-05-02 10:19:20
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I doubt boost dex and entrust dex was used for calculating those avg. That alone is probably almost 2k damage.

With those buffs you should have almost 500 DEX.

With 500DEX, floored fstr, 61% crit rate at 1000TP and +1.1 additional hit avg (Saber dance bonus drops with time. With max bonus it's much higher than +1.1 additional hit, but I'm getting avg here) I have Evis at around 32k+ assuming TP overflow. Around 30k if you account for misses.

61% crit rate assuming only dDEX, gear and WS own crit base, so if you were using Saber Dance right before the fight and also you were using Feather Step for additional crit rate, then I can easily see it goes above 32k avg.
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By Spaitin 2019-05-02 11:35:07
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Spaitin said: »
tauret crit bonus is not active during WS. I too would like to know where the 82% is coming from. And could you do the numbers assuming you Do NOT have capped crit hit rate. buffs being rogues boost dex geo dex capped attack and acc capped haste.
this is what I asked them to run the numbers on. I only really wanted the WS average so the haste is kinda irrelevant.

I did not use feather step in my ambu runs either.
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By SimonSes 2019-05-02 12:44:49
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Well, maybe she used different set or something, idk. Im getting what I wrote in previous post and this seems to be close to what you was experiencing.
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By Spaitin 2019-05-02 13:28:47
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SimonSes said: »
Well, maybe she used different set or something, idk. Im getting what I wrote in previous post and this seems to be close to what you was experiencing.
your sim might be right, but if they did as advertised, their sim is very wrong. unless i am missing something obvious
 Leviathan.Katriina
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By Leviathan.Katriina 2019-05-03 06:19:51
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eliroo said: »
re you concerned your damage is a bit lower? We noticed a similar drop off in average damage vs. this months ambuscade, I think the mob may have some minor % of DT or something else because our weaponskills were doing a bit below what we'd normally see at pdif.

V1 NM got guard, that's why its lower than normal.
Also, no one dropped Fotia Gorget for JSE neck on Evisceration, but w.e Simon~
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By SimonSes 2019-05-03 06:51:15
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Leviathan.Katriina said: »
Also, no one dropped Fotia Gorget for JSE neck on Evisceration, but w.e Simon~

You suggest you still use Fotia, or you suggest you weren't using Fotia? Because I'm confused at this point lol

Fotia was the best neck for Evis. JSE is the best now at attack cap. So I have really no idea what are you talking about.
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 Asura.Topace
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By Asura.Topace 2019-06-08 14:03:54
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Is terps a must have or worth making? Or is Aeneas and Twash still the best? New to dancer.
 Bismarck.Ringoko
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By Bismarck.Ringoko 2019-06-08 14:12:03
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Asura.Topace said: »
Is terps a must have or worth making? Or is Aeneas and Twash still the best? New to dancer.

Everything is situational!
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By Wordspoken 2019-06-08 15:56:58
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Asura.Topace said: »
Is terps a must have or worth making? Or is Aeneas and Twash still the best? New to dancer.
I'm under the impression that: worth making - yes. Must have - no.
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By ScaevolaBahamut 2019-06-08 16:11:51
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Wordspoken said: »
Asura.Topace said: »
Is terps a must have or worth making? Or is Aeneas and Twash still the best? New to dancer.
I'm under the impression that: worth making - yes. Must have - no.

This. The January buff to Presto really hurt Terpsichore's claim to fame, but it's still a great weapon. I wouldn't use it over Aeneas in a group situation but solo, the ability to reliably self-sc in 30% DT full-time and Fan Dance opens up a lot.
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By Afania 2019-06-08 20:20:01
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Asura.Topace said: »
worth making?


Subjective, imo. Since presto update and tauret release for TP spam I personally see it as one of the less job changing mythic compare with other powerful mythics like tiz or DP.

The answer really depends on how much you enjoy the job.
 Leviathan.Katriina
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By Leviathan.Katriina 2019-06-09 16:36:57
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This is a personal opinion and you're welcome to add yours~

Best daggers post update are:

Pure Zerg/High Buffs:

1-Twashtar/Centovente Spamming Rudra with Building Flourish.
2-Tauret/Twashtar Spamming Evisceration with Building Flourish whenever its up.
3-Terpsichore/Twashtar Spamming Pyrrhic Kleos with Building Flourish and Saber Dance up.

Multi-Step/High Buffs:

1-Twashtar/Centovente Spamming Rudra with Building Flourish.
2-Terpsichore/Twashtar Spamming Pyrrhic Kleos with Building Flourish and Saber Dance up.
3-Tauret/Twashtar Spamming Rudra with Building Flourish.

Low Buff/Gear Tier situations:

1-Terpsichore/Twashtar Spamming Pyrrhic Kleos with Building Flourish.
2-Tauret/Twashtar Spamming Evisceration with Building Flourish.
3-Twashtar/Tauret Spamming Rudra with Building Flourish.

Is Terpsichore worth it? depends on your play style and what you do in game and how much you're willing to invest in this Job. Personally I would recommend it.
 Asura.Celious
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By Asura.Celious 2019-06-09 21:59:01
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For group 1 merits:

Is 5/5 haste samba and reverse flourish still the go-to? Or should 5/5 Reverse + Building flourish be the goal?

I personally feel that the extra 5% haste is wasted most of the time on myself? Looking for other people's in-put. Does the added 5% for other party members out-weigh the likely excess for the DNC?

Thanks!
 Leviathan.Katriina
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By Leviathan.Katriina 2019-06-10 02:10:17
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The new Gere Ring from Odin is going to be BiS for [PK, Evisceration] by replacing Regal, and in TP Set by replacing Moonlight or Petrov, where:

Tauret/Twashtar
Evisceration with Gere 26990 and 2.33 Rounds/WS
Evisceration with Regal 26974 and 2.34 Rounds/WS

Terpsichore/Twashtar
Pyrrhic Kleos with Gere 20111 and 2.13 Rounds/WS
Pyrrhic Kleos with Regal 19986 and 2.14 Rounds/WS
 Leviathan.Katriina
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By Leviathan.Katriina 2019-06-10 02:26:13
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Asura.Celious said: »
Is 5/5 haste samba and reverse flourish still the go-to? Or should 5/5 Reverse + Building flourish be the goal?

In current meta for DNC [pure zerg, high buffs and skill chain coordination], provided that you are prioritizing building flourish, reverse flourish becomes less attractive.

I would assume in your case, to skip reverse flourish and make group one:
5/5 Haste Samba
5/5 Building Flourish

Its pointless to do Reverse/Building 5/5 since they share timer, and the benefits of Samba for everyone and even in solo outweighs others in Group 1.
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By Spaitin 2019-06-10 11:49:43
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Asura.Topace said: »
Is terps a must have or worth making? Or is Aeneas and Twash still the best? New to dancer.


I would say terp is not really worth making. I have it and it is pretty pointless. Not a great DPS weapon. kinda okay in solo. but tauret demolishes it in low ior high buff for DPS. In oddball healing situations it might be okay. it has a semi useful niche as a hybrid tank TP weapon.

twash/centovente is good, but pretty useless on anything with a lot of evasion. You are then forced to decide if you want capped acc or capped attack.

Tauret/twash seems to be the overall king for DPS. inside of escha though I had tauret/raetic winning by a decent chunk.
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By Changle 2019-06-11 09:42:17
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Hi, fresh level 99 here, is the guide on the first page still accurate?

I got invited to ambuscade just as I hit 99 so I currently have mummu set + 0 and the ambu DNC cape.

What should I be working towards next?

I am DNC/THF if that makes any difference.
 Asura.Patb
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By Asura.Patb 2019-06-11 10:11:52
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Work on getting the Mummu +1, then +2. Then work on getting the Meghanada set +0, +1, then +2. Make more Capes from Ambuscade, you'll need 3+ of them (more if you take the job seriously). Work on leveling your warrior and samurai to 50 for subjobs.
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By Changle 2019-06-11 10:24:07
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Thanks for the advice, I will do, Is THF not good for DNC then I assume?
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By Zeota 2019-06-11 10:34:48
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It isn't doing much for you outside of TH. NIN also worth having for situations where you'd want shadows. For weapons, you'll definitely want to start working on the ambuscade dagger ASAP, as well as the Oboro JSE one (Polyhymnia). So yeah, get ready to do lots and lots of 'scade!
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