The Last Dance II: The Show Must Go On

Langues: JP EN DE FR
users online
Forum » FFXI » Jobs » Dancer » The Last Dance II: The Show Must Go On
The Last Dance II: The Show Must Go On
First Page 2 3 ... 78 79 80
 Carbuncle.Skudo
Offline
Serveur: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
user: SKudo
By Carbuncle.Skudo 2014-12-30 16:53:49
Link | Citer | R
 
@Shirai I can do that when I'm back in Berlin. I don't have my lolXI files here in the US and A. ;-(

wormfeeder said: »
Skudo are you using food to get 1000 attack, or are you using the 1000 as n easy number to formulate from.

Easy number. I could have put 900 in there and the WSD+4% claim would still be correct, because WSD+4% = 1.04 > 1 + 35 / 900 = 1.0389.
[+]
 Asura.Sechs
Online
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Akumasama
Posts: 5558
By Asura.Sechs 2014-12-30 16:53:57
Link | Citer | R
 
Augmenting stuff like Hagondes and Iuitl is like hell. It's already painful on "easy" sets like Otronif and Gendewith, but on stuff like Iuitl it's really insane >.>
You could literally throw there the money to fund a gil and still walk out unsatisfied >_____>


Thanks for all the replies <3
[+]
Offline
Posts: 573
By wormfeeder 2014-12-30 17:29:08
Link | Citer | R
 
Looks like I should redo my atoyac from 30 acc 20 att to oat and crit.
 Bahamut.Flareon
Offline
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: Flareon
Posts: 96
By Bahamut.Flareon 2014-12-30 19:10:50
Link | Citer | R
 
Carbuncle.Skudo said: »
Bahamut.Flareon said: »
I'd Like to know which parameters you use to determine Haste % for each of the "phases": 15, 30 and Cap.

15% is a Haste I spell onry, e. g. when you're with a WHM and you can't summon any NPCs.

30% realistically is just Haste II, because whenever you might have a Haste bubble from GEO, there will be Haste to cap you. This level most often occurs when you're out there with your Trust NPCs and your BRDs decide it's better to sing Paeon or Ballad instead of Marches, leaving you with just Haste II from Koru-Moru.

The most common ways to cap magic Haste are March 2x + Haste, Indi-Haste (or Geo-Haste) + Haste, and Victory March + Haste II (from RDM or SMN). "Cap" here however means that you're dual wielding and you have 37%+ magic Haste, so the most notable addition to the scenarios above is Haste II + Victory March from your Trust NPC, which is just ~39.6% Haste, but still enough to cap delay reduction for you.

I see... i might be wrong then, but i didn't think you can specify Haste I and Haste II in the Lua file, can you? I thought that, for all the matters, it understands Haste as a single buff, regardless if I or II.
 Valefor.Sapphire
Offline
Serveur: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1822
By Valefor.Sapphire 2014-12-31 07:16:38
Link | Citer | R
 
I think the one thing that bothers me about the highend tp sets in the guide is that it fails to give guidance on incremental alternatives, namely the body slot.
If you look at all the sets so far, out of all our reforge only the horos tiara and feet make an appearance. Feels a bit weird, I think stuff like horos+1 body is pretty great and something everyone should make.
Listing alternatives in a heirarchy format per slot would work pretty well.

Guide doesnt have a step/flourish set (yeah we have 99% physical acc, but I still think its cool to have a stacked acc set for this on really hard content where you might not be capping hitrate)

Back to body selections, Thaumas wins on paper but its very easy to be tanking incursion megaboss or pop NMs and you are better off wearing dt iuitl body, qaaxo, horos+1 body or something of that nature instead so you don't like die or be an mp sponge, or panic and hit fandance and take a dps hit anyways.
Last time I tried to use thaumas body in a tp set I almost got myself killed (cowll hippogriff with fantod up hits for 800+, backheel for 1k+), also shiva rush or predator claws can kill you,etc.
[+]
 Lakshmi.Byrth
VIP
Offline
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
user: Byrthnoth
Posts: 5491
By Lakshmi.Byrth 2014-12-31 07:21:48
Link | Citer | R
 
I agree that Thaumas is too much of a liability these days, and I do also use a step/flourish set.
 Lakshmi.Amymy
Offline
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
user: Amymy
Posts: 881
By Lakshmi.Amymy 2014-12-31 11:45:15
Link | Citer | R
 
I'm kinda full timing emet harness. Is that bad?

Between climatic flourish and reverse flourish its steps build tp to 1750 climatic flourish rudra (insane damage) , steps build tp rudra reverse flourish rudra skillchain then repeat.

I think dancer is more powerful then thief. Is there a surge in dancer users now or the job is too complicated for some.
 Valefor.Sapphire
Offline
Serveur: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1822
By Valefor.Sapphire 2014-12-31 12:24:55
Link | Citer | R
 
Lakshmi.Amymy said: »
I'm kinda full timing emet harness. Is that bad?
Emet harness is pretty good (if i stopped getting golem shards and garbage isntead of the body drop i'd use it myself)
Its a solid -dt piece and its common to end up tanking these days just being a dd so that body with +enmity and accuracy for harder stuff just embraces that role.

Lakshmi.Amymy said: »
I think dancer is more powerful then thief. Is there a surge in dancer users now or the job is too complicated for some.
If you just do a /sea thf all and /sea dnc all, you'll see that THF is roughly 5x more (on my server at least).

I personally think DNC is a more interesting job to play, its very much a samurai in frilly clothing with daggers because you can self skillchain easily without a specific subjob.
Also our SP abilities allow us to crank out extra long skillchains just like a samurai.

Sabredance and Fandance are similar to Hasso/Seigan in a way if you wanna stretch analogies. I always thought people that liked samurai would find dancer an appealing job to play because it has 'stances' and good self skillchain ability.

Dancer solos better than thf, so it has some appeal to people there.
Its also a job that can swap from dd to tank+waltz spam to save the day when things go bad, healer disconnects or dies, etc.
The main draw of the job is diversity and adaptability, if people just want to focus on only a damage role then THF tends to be more appealing.

Random things that most people don't know about dancer:

-Dancer has the highest skillchain bonus trait in the game (Skillchain bonus V which is +23%, samurai only has IV which is 16%).
Dancer can hit the 50% sc bonus cap with maxixi tights+1, charis+2 hands and mujin band, rendering allies roll useless (not that you'd really use charis hands in a sc closing ws set, but Empy reforge hands are going to be amazing for ws'ing+sc closing I hope)

-Dancer has the highest tactical parry trait
(Ninjas even known for their cool parry JA 'Issekigan' is one tier lower in terms of tp gain per parry).
This again is a nod to the tanking role of dancer, closed position, and why horos toeshoes are awesome (and why you should always face your target like those overwhelm samurais and not stand behind the target like a thf)
 Lakshmi.Amymy
Offline
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
user: Amymy
Posts: 881
By Lakshmi.Amymy 2014-12-31 12:36:56
Link | Citer | R
 
Valefor.Sapphire said: »
Lakshmi.Amymy said: »
I'm kinda full timing emet harness. Is that bad?
Emet harness is pretty good (if i stopped getting golem shards and garbage isntead of the body drop i'd use it myself)
Its a solid -dt piece and its common to end up tanking these days just being a dd so that body with +enmity and accuracy for harder stuff just embraces that role.

Lakshmi.Amymy said: »
I think dancer is more powerful then thief. Is there a surge in dancer users now or the job is too complicated for some.
If you just do a /sea thf all and /sea dnc all, you'll see that THF is roughly 5x more (on my server at least).

I personally think DNC is a more interesting job to play, its very much a samurai in frilly clothing with daggers because you can self skillchain easily without a specific subjob.
Also our SP abilities allow us to crank out extra long skillchains just like a samurai.

Sabredance and Fandance are similar to Hasso/Seigan in a way if you wanna stretch analogies. I always thought people that liked samurai would find dancer an appealing job to play because it has 'stances' and good self skillchain ability.

Dancer solos better than thf, so it has some appeal to people there.
Its also a job that can swap from dd to tank+waltz spam to save the day when things go bad, healer disconnects or dies, etc.
The main draw of the job is diversity and adaptability, if people just want to focus on only a damage role then THF tends to be more appealing.

Random things that most people don't know about dancer:

-Dancer has the highest skillchain bonus trait in the game (Skillchain bonus V which is +23%, samurai only has IV which is 16%).
Dancer can hit the 50% sc bonus cap with maxixi tights+1, charis+2 hands and mujin band, rendering allies roll useless (not that you'd really use charis hands in a sc closing ws set, but Empy reforge hands are going to be amazing for ws'ing+sc closing I hope)

-Dancer has the highest tactical parry trait
(Ninjas even known for their cool parry JA 'Issekigan' is one tier lower in terms of tp gain per parry).
This again is a nod to the tanking role of dancer, closed position, and why horos toeshoes are awesome (and why you should always face your target like those overwhelm samurais and not stand behind the target like a thf)

Yea and I also waltz 3 for 700 hp while stilling missing like 20 waltz potency. I can also tank normal skcm chapter fights. Samurai is fun and all but when you talking big numbers. Even doing Kaggen is fun. Use dusty wing climactic flourish rudra. Oh another wing ready for use.rudra use dusty wing rudra.
 Cerberus.Doctorugh
Offline
Serveur: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
user: Doctorugh
Posts: 317
By Cerberus.Doctorugh 2014-12-31 18:55:56
Link | Citer | R
 
Upon running numbers for DNC/WAR and single wielding, during situations where you have capped magic haste and are using samba; single wielding (vs DW) is advantageous by about 18% which is significant.
 Asura.Darvamos
Offline
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Demmis
Posts: 234
By Asura.Darvamos 2014-12-31 19:04:14
Link | Citer | R
 
Cerberus.Doctorugh said: »
Upon running numbers for DNC/WAR and single wielding, during situations where you have capped magic haste and are using samba; single wielding (vs DW) is advantageous by about 18% which is significant.
Is this case with any "decent" 119 Dagger or Terp only? IIRC this was also the case at 75 with Terp only though back then? I'm presuming its any now though since updates to /war and RS etc...
 Lakshmi.Byrth
VIP
Offline
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
user: Byrthnoth
Posts: 5491
By Lakshmi.Byrth 2014-12-31 19:15:08
Link | Citer | R
 
I get that single wielding is a 5% DPS boost with Terpsichore if spamming Rudra's Storm (with AM3). However, Pyrrhic Kleos spamming with DW at 1000 TP is still stronger.
 Cerberus.Doctorugh
Offline
Serveur: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
user: Doctorugh
Posts: 317
By Cerberus.Doctorugh 2014-12-31 19:27:22
Link | Citer | R
 
I ran my numbers with no Terpsochore (since I and most dont have), meaning AM3 is less weighted (since less hits to next WS). That could be the difference. Did you account for ftp bonus(+20) and crit(+5%) AND +2 stp on shield also?

Basically the numbers I ran were using RS at 200 tp for DW and 180 for SW (with fencer RS should be the same damage at those values)
 Lakshmi.Byrth
VIP
Offline
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
user: Byrthnoth
Posts: 5491
By Lakshmi.Byrth 2014-12-31 19:32:35
Link | Citer | R
 
I used a modified version of Motenten's spreadsheet and ran it at 1600 TP with Rudra's Storm, which I find is the optimal WS point (1600 + 250 + 200). There is a benefit to WSing less often (less WS delay).

My version also accounts for JA delay associated with flourishes, JA uses, etc.

If you're already using Rudra's, then single wielding might be the best option at the delay cap.
[+]
 Carbuncle.Skudo
Offline
Serveur: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
user: SKudo
By Carbuncle.Skudo 2015-01-01 01:51:49
Link | Citer | R
 
Happy New Year, everyone! \o/

Changes to "To-do list":
Quote:
* Add more gear sets, especially side- and downgrades.
* Distinguish between capped and uncapped attack for gear sets.
* Finish Job Points & Gifts.
* Do gear sets for Mythic wielders

Changes to "Support Jobs":

Quote:
Unlike some other front-line jobs, Dancers unfortunately don't benefit from their support job as much as other jobs might do. With a native source of Job Ability Haste, native Dual Wield, and - most importantly - native curing, those things do not have to come from a Dancer's support job.




Warrior

Warrior as a support job comes with some offensive buffs, helping with the lack of attack that Dancers suffer from. Aggressor also is one of the few accuracy buffs that can come from a support job, which makes it very useful for fights that require at least some gearing towards accuracy. Be it by letting Dancers wear more offensive gear while maintaining capped hit rate or by helping with accuracy issues to begin with; being highly accurate does not mean Dancers have capped hit rate all the time, after all.

Warrior also provides "Double Attack +10%", which unfortunately does not stack with the effect Saber Dance. For fights where maintaining Saber Dance is not viable, e. g. because of constant Dispel effects, this Job Trait ends up being useful.

This support job is one of the prevalent ones for group content, especially if there is no need for damage mitigation.





Samurai

Samurai as a support job also adds to a Dancer's offensive capabilities, but it does so from a different angle. Both Meditate and Sekkanoki can be used for significantly easier multi-step Skillchains. Store TP +15 also makes it easier for Dancers with capped delay reduction to pull of self-Skillchains without any further help. Zanshin addresses possible accuracy issues by letting Dancers swing again 25% of the time they miss; those Zanshin-powered swings benefit from a 34 accuracy bonus, too.

On the defensive side of Samurai, Third Eye can be useful, but with its 60 seconds recast timer, it unfortunately is not something to build strategies around, due to the lack of Seigan. Hasso, the main reason for 2-handed front-line jobs to use Samurai as a support job, does not work with 1-handed weapons, either.

If there is not need for the extra attack and/or accuracy from a Warrior support job and maintaining Saber Dance is not an issue, Samurai pulls ahead. By enabling easier self-skillchains, it can also be very useful solo with Trust NPCs.





Ninja

Ninja as a support job comes with just two useful things. Namely Utsusemi: Ichi and Utsusemi: Ni. Anything else is either Ninja main job only or we already have it natively. Those two spells however are the main selling point for this support job, providing almost unconditional damage mitigation against a lot of current content. Dancers also have access to at least some equipment with "Fast Cast", which makes maintaining shadows a lot easier.

This support job is the other prevalent one for group content. Utsusemi, while a defensive effect by itself, can add a lot to a Dancer's damage output by letting them equip more offensive gear without any additional risk, especially if having shadows up does mean that there is no way for a Dancer to be hurt.





Rune Fencer

Rune Fencer as a support job mainly is about its Runes and the resulting additional effect damage they generate. Unfortunately, they block Haste Samba, which however means that you can use Fan Dance and maintain it without giving up anything. Pflug and Vallation are the two defensive Job Abilities that come with a Rune Fencer support job, adding to a Dancer's magical defense capabilities, as well as the "Magic Defense Bonus II" Job Trait.

Out of all the spells that come with this support job, Flash might be the most notable one, giving Dancers another source for fast enmity, in case of enmity resets. The Barspells can be useful, especially in solo situations with Trust NPCs only, because those do not cast Barspells (yet?), but wherever a mage is around, their Barspells will be better.

Last but not least, Swipe and Lunge are nice sources for elemental damage, which usually are used to handle some NM gimmicks. They however have long recast timers, which a Dancer needs to keep in mind, if there are potential gimmicks to be taken care of. These Job Abilities are the only way to get rid of Runes (you cannot manually click them away), which can be used to enable Sambas again, should there be no need for gimmicks anytime in the near future.

This support job can be crucial for some fights by giving Dancers a way to address their gimmick. The most notable spots for this support jobs are Wildskeeper Reives, the new high-level Avatar fights, and some other fights with heavy magic damage of one single element.





Red Mage

Red Mage as a support job has about one purpose: Haste. Other spells like Protect III and Shell II are nice to have, but Haste is the main selling point with Dia II probably being a distant second.

This support job pretty much only is useful when there is no access to Trust NPCs and there is no need for anything else from any other support job. It is capable of maintaining its MP Pool with Refresh, which is its advantage over White Mage.





White Mage

White Mage as a support job comes with Reraise and Haste. Similar to Red Mage, all other spells happen to be there, but they are no reason to use White Mage as a support job. It does not have any means of maintaining its MP pool, so it relies on MP replenishing gear to be able to cast the spells a Dancer is using this support job for, e. g. Refresh gear or "Converts damage taken to MP".

This support job is even moreso limited than Red Mage, because of its nearly inevitable MP issues. Since Reraise is its USP, a Dancer might be better off bringing items granting a Reraise effect and using another support job instead.
[+]
 Bahamut.Shirai
Offline
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: Shirai
By Bahamut.Shirai 2015-01-04 13:11:54
Link | Citer | R
 
Carbuncle.Skudo said: »
@Shirai I can do that when I'm back in Berlin. I don't have my lolXI files here in the US and A. ;-(

No probs!
I'll see when you get back home, and happy new year!

(Apologies for the off-topic.)
Offline
Posts: 312
By Creecreelo 2015-01-04 13:58:05
Link | Citer | R
 
Last time I checked, I'm fairly certain Zanshin doesn't proc on DW or H2H. It'll work on H2H if you offhand a shield or something silly so you only hit once. I tested this a few years ago in Abyssea after a ls friend told me it didn't work for DW, so maybe it was changed since then. It's pretty easy to test with PW's atma and DWing all-job weapons that jobs don't have any native skill in.
Offline
Posts: 1285
By mortontony1 2015-01-04 14:05:45
Link | Citer | R
 
Creecreelo said: »
Last time I checked, I'm fairly certain Zanshin doesn't proc on DW or H2H. It'll work on H2H if you offhand a shield or something silly so you only hit once. I tested this a few years ago in Abyssea after a ls friend told me it didn't work for DW, so maybe it was changed since then. It's pretty easy to test with PW's atma and DWing all-job weapons that jobs don't have any native skill in.

Pretty sure that's true as well.
 Lakshmi.Byrth
VIP
Offline
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
user: Byrthnoth
Posts: 5491
By Lakshmi.Byrth 2015-01-04 14:15:47
Link | Citer | R
 
Zanshin is restricted to proccing on attack rounds with 1 swing that missed/dodged/parried/countered/guarded/blocked or was absorbed by a shadow.
 Valefor.Bunsies
Offline
Serveur: Valefor
Game: FFXI
user: Bunsies
Posts: 15
By Valefor.Bunsies 2015-01-05 03:54:29
Link | Citer | R
 
Great work Skudo! As a currently infrequent player I've found the original thread particularly useful, so it's great to see a significant update :)

One small piece of feedback; you're missing a 0 from all the waltz TP costs ^^
 Carbuncle.Skudo
Offline
Serveur: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
user: SKudo
By Carbuncle.Skudo 2015-01-05 04:10:48
Link | Citer | R
 
Lakshmi.Byrth said: »
Zanshin is restricted to proccing on attack rounds with 1 swing that missed/dodged/parried/countered/guarded/blocked or was absorbed by a shadow.

Fixed.

(That's why I shouldn't write things on trips without any chance to verify it.)

Valefor.Bunsies said: »
One small piece of feedback; you're missing a 0 from all the waltz TP costs ^^

Fixed, too.
 Bahamut.Flareon
Offline
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: Flareon
Posts: 96
By Bahamut.Flareon 2015-01-07 12:10:28
Link | Citer | R
 
Speaking of Waltz, i would like to submit my set:

ItemSet 332136

It's capped on + 50% potency and filled with CHR+ instead of VIT so it can be more effective on any target regardless of their VIT.

I have 6 job points on Waltz Potency so far, being able to cure around 900h with Curing Waltz III.

There is one piece that increases Waltz that i'm not using, which is Alruna's Gloves +1 Slither Gloves +1. As much as i could use to liberate another slot for CHR / VIT (since i'm capped at 50%), no other piece of gear would stand up for the loss of CHR / VIT from Horos Bangles +1, so i keep Alruna's Gloves +1 Slither Gloves +1 for when i'm subbing DNC and can't use DNC exclusive pieces with Waltz Potency such as Head / Body / Feet / Back.

Anyway, under risk of missing something, i would like you to analyze / suggest improvements to this set.
 Lakshmi.Byrth
VIP
Offline
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
user: Byrthnoth
Posts: 5491
By Lakshmi.Byrth 2015-01-07 12:20:42
Link | Citer | R
 
For Waltz <= 3 and HW:
ItemSet 327781

For Waltz >3 and DW:
ItemSet 332138
[+]
 Bahamut.Flareon
Offline
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: Flareon
Posts: 96
By Bahamut.Flareon 2015-01-07 12:47:36
Link | Citer | R
 
And again i changed the names... it's not Alruna's, it's Slither... already edited
 Phoenix.Capuchin
Offline
Serveur: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
user: Anza
Posts: 2109
By Phoenix.Capuchin 2015-01-13 00:20:43
Link | Citer | R
 
Valefor.Sapphire said: »
-Dancer has the highest skillchain bonus trait in the game (Skillchain bonus V which is +23%, samurai only has IV which is 16%).
Dancer can hit the 50% sc bonus cap with maxixi tights+1, charis+2 hands and mujin band, rendering allies roll useless (not that you'd really use charis hands in a sc closing ws set, but Empy reforge hands are going to be amazing for ws'ing+sc closing I hope)

Has anyone done number crunching (in the post Rudra buff world) for when using SC Bonus gear is worth it, if ever? What's the difference between the SC bonus options and the "standard" Rudra's sets? I'm guessing it's not worth bothering with at low TP, but what about closing with a 3000TP Rudra (and/or Climactic Flourish)?

For that matter, is Mujin Band (+5%, right?) potentially worth it? Especially comparing to something like an NQ Ramuh for those who might not have the pricey +1.

And are we sure how Charis+2 hands compare to ilevel options? 10% is a lot of SC bonus, and they at least get DEX+9 as well. Compared to something like Nom+1, there's a big loss of STR (+14) and DEX (+25), but making up as best you can in other slots with potentially a 50% SC Bonus 3000tp CF+Rudra sounds like it might be at least worth looking at numbers before an outright dismissal.

Obviously you're gonna run a risk of significantly worse WS numbers if someone interrupts your SC, but if you're confident you can hit SC it's an intriguing thought...
 Shiva.Kienasia
Offline
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
user: kienasia
Posts: 92
By Shiva.Kienasia 2015-01-13 04:18:39
Link | Citer | R
 
Great Job on remaking the Dancer guide. Was looking through the tp sets and was wondering why the hq-tp(0) and hq-tp (15)(aka I want to be the very best) sets aren't gear haste capped? Sorry if I'm missing something. Was just curious.
 Carbuncle.Skudo
Offline
Serveur: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
user: SKudo
By Carbuncle.Skudo 2015-01-13 06:35:26
Link | Citer | R
 
Brainfart. Or: Ionis. But that's moot now, because new gear section on the way.
 Shiva.Kienasia
Offline
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
user: kienasia
Posts: 92
By Shiva.Kienasia 2015-01-13 08:23:45
Link | Citer | R
 
Ah okay. And looking forward to it.
 Carbuncle.Skudo
Offline
Serveur: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
user: SKudo
By Carbuncle.Skudo 2015-01-13 10:03:25
Link | Citer | R
 
Gear sets. Many of them. Ogawd, my brain. So mushy.

The bad part: I still need to create another bunch of gear sets...
First Page 2 3 ... 78 79 80
Log in to post.