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The New embrava and PD
 Bismarck.Luces
Serveur: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 517
By Bismarck.Luces 2012-10-23 18:37:00
Sch can accession something every floor, sub sch has 2 charges on long timers.
That's true, but the run is only 30 minutes. So how many times do you need to Accession these things? With the gear RDM gets to increase enhancing magic duration I'd think they could manage on two charges just fine.
I'd say the loss of Regen V is the biggest complaint between the two.
the point is, RDM is servicable now. It can do the job, whereas last week, there was no point in talking about it.
considering in order to increases RDM magic duration you have to sacrifice four pieces of equipment, 3/4 have 10+ enhancing magic on them so in order to increase duration you have to sacrifice over 40 skill. with enspells and phalanx you are sacrificing about +/- 2 damage. They need to rework the enspell formula, or make it so that enspell + gear only counts at time of casting and applies to every hit. At least with the gear that does the increase,hollow earing and fencer ring being the only ones both are worse then the other options for gear, because the damage has barely gone up on enspells while mobs have gained 2x-5x as much hp as they use too.
So even if a rdm subs sch and buffs, their buffs are going to be weaker then a sch doing them.
Fenrir.Elliott
Serveur: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 67
By Fenrir.Elliott 2012-10-23 18:51:14
Sch can accession something every floor, sub sch has 2 charges on long timers.
That's true, but the run is only 30 minutes. So how many times do you need to Accession these things? With the gear RDM gets to increase enhancing magic duration I'd think they could manage on two charges just fine.
I'd say the loss of Regen V is the biggest complaint between the two.
the point is, RDM is servicable now. It can do the job, whereas last week, there was no point in talking about it.
considering in order to increases RDM magic duration you have to sacrifice four pieces of equipment, 3/4 have 10+ enhancing magic on them so in order to increase duration you have to sacrifice over 40 skill. with enspells and phalanx you are sacrificing about +/- 2 damage. They need to rework the enspell formula, or make it so that enspell + gear only counts at time of casting and applies to every hit. At least with the gear that does the increase,hollow earing and fencer ring being the only ones both are worse then the other options for gear, because the damage has barely gone up on enspells while mobs have gained 2x-5x as much hp as they use too.
So even if a rdm subs sch and buffs, their buffs are going to be weaker then a sch doing them.
You can use Feet + Cape only and still get a decent duration boost without losing a thing, as both have best Enhancing Magic + for those slots.
By Zeota 2012-10-23 19:14:01
Was anything mentioned about Resolution? I saw it in the caption of some Tanaka pic someone uploaded here. Already getting twinges of buyer's remorse for this ragnarok that I've yet to finish.
Siren.Calnus
Serveur: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 796
By Siren.Calnus 2012-10-23 19:25:20
Was anything mentioned about Resolution? I saw it in the caption of some Tanaka pic someone uploaded here. Already getting twinges of buyer's remorse for this ragnarok that I've yet to finish. Ignore the dude who posted that pic hes a douche.
[+]
Serveur: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 182
By Odin.Ladyrikku 2012-10-23 19:46:45
Quetzalcoatl.Wakmidget said: »Cerberus.Maeldiar said: »This is all part of SEs master plan to make RNG the job of choice again. Ftfy Anni RNG actually got the biggest nerf from this. FTFY Not hard for Yoichi gear up 5-hit, and still maintain capped R Acc. Anni RNG's already *** about R Acc in Mul, and need to sacrifice damage gear/food for R Acc. Incoming, Rise of the Yoichi's? /evilgrin.
Wait what? Back when my LS calls me for Rng to Legion (All rooms inc Mul) (Old Strat) I was eating Red Curry and hardly missing my shots on ranger, those cors suck for not giving those rangers Ranger Roll.
P.S. Just woke up, so a little backdated on post.
By Gimp 2012-10-23 19:55:52
The PD change makes total sense.
As it works now, Alexander is as effective with a Summoning skill of 0 as it is with a Summoning skill of 500. This is very broken. It means summoners that have played summoner for years are having to compete with flavour of the month summoners who burnt theirs to 99 ASAP for PD and FFXIAH achievement points. With the change, those with a high summoning magic skill and those who take pride in their jobs will be highly sought after.
I for one am happy about this. My summoning is 498 with gear, because I actually give a ***about the job. Another two levels and my perfect defense will last 55 seconds. This means I'm much more likely to get invited to groups doing Legion than somebody who burnt theirs to 99 in a day and never touch it again, except to *** Alexander out to alliances.
I know I'm going to get trolled for this post, but ha *** ha. Take some pride in your damn jobs, people, and this 'nerf' wouldn't be an issue whatsoever. Kudos to the FFXI team for actually putting some emphasis on caring for your jobs. Summoner 99 with <100 Summoning skill is exactly the same as Perle BSTs.
A spellcast to spam summoning would fix that with time since some people can bandwagon it right(not that I like saying that). Could see summoning + pieces rising even higher after this implement and marrows rise in price.
and this is a great thing to wake up to.
 Carbuncle.Nynja
Serveur: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2553
By Carbuncle.Nynja 2012-10-23 20:15:18
A spellcast to spam summoning would fix that with time since some people can bandwagon it right(not that I like saying that). Could see summoning + pieces rising even higher after this implement and marrows rise in price.
Soulscorge: rare ex
OR
Kirin's Pole: 300k (most will already have this) + Byakko Tatter: 30k per, I expect price to jump)
Vox Grip: easy abyssea drop, but 50k atm
AF3+2 head: free
AF3 neck: free
Summoning Earring: 2 mil atm, rare ENM drop
Aptus Earring: free, rare aug
Anhur Robe: free, or 10m via cells
AF2+2 hands: Touch's are 7k each? I dont see a price spike on that
Evoker Ring: free
Fervor Ring: 150k, easy BCNM if price spikes
Sea Cape: Free
Cimmerian Sash: 2m, stupid BCNM
Ngul Pants: Proto-Ultima, free
Rubeus Boots: free VW
most of that stuff is rare ex. The only stuff thats not rare/ex accounts for +5 (Kirin+byakko over Soulscourge), +3 (vox grip), +3 (smn ear), +3 (AF2+2 hands over AF2+1 hands, whos upgrade is tied to currency if you're avoiding touches, but why would you do that if its the same cost pretty much), +4 (fervor ring), +5 (cimmerian Sash, Summoning belt doesnt exist)...so +23 in skill is buyable.
By Avitori 2012-10-23 20:18:00
Was anything mentioned about Resolution? I saw it in the caption of some Tanaka pic someone uploaded here. Already getting twinges of buyer's remorse for this ragnarok that I've yet to finish. Ignore the dude who posted that pic hes a douche.
yeah that guys a total d*ck
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By Gimp 2012-10-23 20:35:19
DRK thoughts:
Rag just got nerfed a little, regain+auto magic haste cap really helped make ridic builds
Apoc just got buffed a little, losing regain doesn't change much and auto curing just got a little better
In general I'd say DRK got a decent buff since it can still hit the haste cap with ease while other jobs won't be able to with just embrava and haste or will be further away.
SAM and DRK seem like the big winners in all this.
DNC got a pretty strong "boost" too. As did MNK.
Could you just say one-handers in general or no?
Forgot to mention with embrava it actually gave hvergelmir a bit of use but oh well. You still have Ele siphion after your pd but you could have had both that and Myrkr.
Edit: Also I wasn't implying that most of the gear came from buying but smn. earring has always been rather high even when it's not always necessary if you have a lot of skill to max duration (and yes phys/magic acc siphion) but I can see a jump to reflect the update if this is implemented
Bahamut.Sorel
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20
By Bahamut.Sorel 2012-10-24 00:15:17
DRK thoughts:
Rag just got nerfed a little, regain+auto magic haste cap really helped make ridic builds
Apoc just got buffed a little, losing regain doesn't change much and auto curing just got a little better
In general I'd say DRK got a decent buff since it can still hit the haste cap with ease while other jobs won't be able to with just embrava and haste or will be further away.
SAM and DRK seem like the big winners in all this.
No one is winning here. It's a matter of who is getting the least amount of ***on them.
 Ragnarok.Afania
Serveur: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2822
By Ragnarok.Afania 2012-10-24 04:27:20
The PD change makes total sense.
As it works now, Alexander is as effective with a Summoning skill of 0 as it is with a Summoning skill of 500. This is very broken. It means summoners that have played summoner for years are having to compete with flavour of the month summoners who burnt theirs to 99 ASAP for PD and FFXIAH achievement points. With the change, those with a high summoning magic skill and those who take pride in their jobs will be highly sought after.
I for one am happy about this. My summoning is 498 with gear, because I actually give a ***about the job. Another two levels and my perfect defense will last 55 seconds. This means I'm much more likely to get invited to groups doing Legion than somebody who burnt theirs to 99 in a day and never touch it again, except to *** Alexander out to alliances.
I know I'm going to get trolled for this post, but ha *** ha. Take some pride in your damn jobs, people, and this 'nerf' wouldn't be an issue whatsoever. Kudos to the FFXI team for actually putting some emphasis on caring for your jobs. Summoner 99 with <100 Summoning skill is exactly the same as Perle BSTs.
Getting priority invite for legion? :p More like making a legion alliance just get harder cuz I can no longer go on the street to /shout for a random SMN for legion and just have them come and PD ***. Most likely I'm not going to get anyone because all the SMN reply my /shout won't have enough skill to do it ;(
Ragnarok.Afania
Serveur: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2822
By Ragnarok.Afania 2012-10-24 04:47:24
The new RDM 2-hour will be somewhat decent for nyzul for those who still need gear. Floor 80 is not hard to reach at all without embrava. We reached it many times before adopting the SCHx2 strategy.
Anyway, I'm probably in the minority here, but I'm more pissed about the regain being removed from embrava. Not only do I, on ranger, now have to suffer through lolmarches being applied to melees, but I no longer have the regain effect from embrava either--which clearly benefits RNG more than any other DD.
On the bright side, RNG will possibly get to shine even more since they'll likely be the only job with 4 minuets.
RNG gets 4 attack songs, melee got 2 march 2 attack song(or maybe even 1 attack song 1 acc song since RNG has acc bonus) , I don't see how it benefits melee THAT much more.
Leviathan.Kincard
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1442
By Leviathan.Kincard 2012-10-24 04:55:29
Was anything mentioned about Resolution? I saw it in the caption of some Tanaka pic someone uploaded here. Already getting twinges of buyer's remorse for this ragnarok that I've yet to finish.
Ragnarok isn't even that good. Don't get me wrong, it's good, but the playerbase is really exaggerating how overpowered Resolution supposedly is. For a DRK, a Ragnarok is the Holy Grail, but for a WAR, even on Paramount Botulus and Gallu a 99 Ukon is falling behind by just a bit, and wins/breaks even pretty much every other situation.
Bismarck.Helel
Serveur: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1335
By Bismarck.Helel 2012-10-24 05:12:23
The new RDM 2-hour will be somewhat decent for nyzul for those who still need gear. Floor 80 is not hard to reach at all without embrava. We reached it many times before adopting the SCHx2 strategy.
Anyway, I'm probably in the minority here, but I'm more pissed about the regain being removed from embrava. Not only do I, on ranger, now have to suffer through lolmarches being applied to melees, but I no longer have the regain effect from embrava either--which clearly benefits RNG more than any other DD.
On the bright side, RNG will possibly get to shine even more since they'll likely be the only job with 4 minuets.
RNG gets 4 attack songs, melee got 2 march 2 attack song(or maybe even 1 attack song 1 acc song since RNG has acc bonus) , I don't see how it benefits melee THAT much more.
I'm guessing you misread my post because I said it benefited RNG not melee, and I was talking specifically about embrava, not songs. The songs obviously benefit RNG more than melee, considering, right now, there is no point in using march due to embrava's haste. Post-nerf, marches will likely be added to the rotation, effectively nerfing damage output of melees relative to pre-nerf settings. The songs for RNG however will remain unchanged.
I am slightly annoyed that regain was changed to refresh just because that was the only aspect of embrava useful to RNG.
And lol at people talking about resolution nerf when last stand exists...
Quetzalcoatl.Supahkronic
Serveur: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 31
By Quetzalcoatl.Supahkronic 2012-10-24 05:31:52
I agree that Embrava getting nerfed is going to suck. Entirely useless though? I'm not so sure.
Quote: By Fenrir.Sylow
I still wouldn't sacrifice 82/tic regen in an event where everyone spreads out.
Tabula Rasa + Regen V is 82/tic, yes. Embrava itself also gives an additional 72/tic for a combined total of 154/tic. That in itself is a cure III every 2-3 tics anyway.
Perpetuance + Haste lasts for 7m30s. The haste spell is a 15% magical increase. Embrava will add another 25% to that.
With so much readily available gear with DA/TA/QA, is losing regain going to hurt all that much? Now, granted, certain floors in nyzul where you aren't fighting are going to get hit. But Adloquium is still there. Granted it's not 5-6 tp/tic, but 1 is better than none.
If they are going to cut the time limit of Embrava down, at least keep the regain. If you want to add refresh, keep the time duration the same. I could even see keeping the duration the same and making the tp from regain less: ie 300 skill 1, 400 skill 2, 500 skill 3.
[+]
Leviathan.Kincard
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1442
By Leviathan.Kincard 2012-10-24 05:39:03
The regain was a pretty big deal in NNI since you spent so much time just running around. Opening a fight with a big WS would save several seconds on any kind of floor with killing as a requirement.
[+]
Serveur: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 36
By Phoenix.Elemosina 2012-10-24 05:39:57
Does this mean SCH is now useless, again?
 Quetzalcoatl.Kenrusai
Serveur: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1899
By Quetzalcoatl.Kenrusai 2012-10-24 05:40:47
@Kincard
3-5% is not "a little bit"
By Jassik 2012-10-24 10:08:34
Phoenix.Elemosina said: »Does this mean SCH is now useless, again?
Far from useless, no longer a one spell super buffer. Nothing has changed yet, its not even on the test server yet ffs.
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6052
By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2012-10-24 10:19:06
Ngen seraweels are from mul, not arch-ultima.
Ukon only compares to rag if you're not using proper buffs.
SCH will be replaced with a second daur99(or one SCH will in nyzul), that's about it. If you feel you need enspell/firestorm/regen5, you'll move ally around.
PD thing will be interesting, legion won't change much for the good groups. Probably have to PD at 65% for ADL to ensure both clones die in a safe timeframe, assuming your SMNs skill up. I guess alternative strats could be found(tp in some DT- and get a minne), but they're likely still less practical. The double TP is just gross.
Carbuncle.Nynja
Serveur: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2553
By Carbuncle.Nynja 2012-10-24 14:45:39
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »Ngen seraweels are from mul, not arch-ultima.
I stand corrected then, I didnt remember the names of the two pieces of gear AU gives, just figured since they were red seraweels it came from AU.
Bismarck.Iso
Serveur: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 52
By Bismarck.Iso 2012-10-25 09:47:09
this whole thread is making my eyes bleed. too much easy mode ***. I am glad they are bringing skill back to the table. too many crap players that rely on pd/embrava. love this, too bad it wasnt much sooner!!!
By Jassik 2012-10-25 09:55:52
Brd in nyzul doesn't compare to sch. Songs take too long and too short duration. You will fail if you spend a min at the rune waiting for 4 songs. And before you mention job abilities, the recast makes them useless outside of one set of good songs then you're better off with sch for everything else that spot would cover.
If you couldn't hit 100 at least 1/4 with the good embrava, better start buying wins while its still possible.
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 298
By Shiva.Kollosis 2012-10-25 10:04:23
Quetzalcoatl.Wakmidget said: »Cerberus.Maeldiar said: »This is all part of SEs master plan to make RNG the job of choice again. Ftfy Anni RNG actually got the biggest nerf from this. FTFY Not hard for Yoichi gear up 5-hit, and still maintain capped R Acc. Anni RNG's already *** about R Acc in Mul, and need to sacrifice damage gear/food for R Acc. Incoming, Rise of the Yoichi's? /evilgrin.
Wait what? Back when my LS calls me for Rng to Legion (All rooms inc Mul) (Old Strat) I was eating Red Curry and hardly missing my shots on ranger, those cors suck for not giving those rangers Ranger Roll.
P.S. Just woke up, so a little backdated on post.
This
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 229
By Asura.Chexmix 2012-10-25 10:08:21
Phoenix.Elemosina said: »Does this mean SCH is now useless, again?
Salvage v2!
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6052
By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2012-10-25 10:28:40
Brd in nyzul doesn't compare to sch. Songs take too long and too short duration. You will fail if you spend a min at the rune waiting for 4 songs. And before you mention job abilities, the recast makes them useless outside of one set of good songs then you're better off with sch for everything else that spot would cover.
If you couldn't hit 100 at least 1/4 with the good embrava, better start buying wins while its still possible. A good BRD has to cast 4 songs once normally, with 80% fast cast, takes 17 sec counting the annoying delay between casts. Follow up with night/troub, another ~11 seconds. Repeat twice(normal once + troub once = 10 min). You spend a grand total of 84 seconds casting. You could also cut it to march march min, or even march min if you found that more practical and cast one song per floor to (generally) keep all songs up.
Of course, if you bring a naked BRD with no fast cast gear, that'll impact your chances significantly.
Fenrir.Curty
Serveur: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 587
By Fenrir.Curty 2012-10-25 10:46:40
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »Brd in nyzul doesn't compare to sch. Songs take too long and too short duration. You will fail if you spend a min at the rune waiting for 4 songs. And before you mention job abilities, the recast makes them useless outside of one set of good songs then you're better off with sch for everything else that spot would cover.
If you couldn't hit 100 at least 1/4 with the good embrava, better start buying wins while its still possible. A good BRD has to cast 4 songs once normally, with 80% fast cast, takes 17 sec counting the annoying delay between casts. Follow up with night/troub, another ~11 seconds. Repeat twice(normal once + troub once = 10 min). You spend a grand total of 84 seconds casting. You could also cut it to march march min, or even march min if you found that more practical and cast one song per floor to (generally) keep all songs up.
Of course, if you bring a naked BRD with no fast cast gear, that'll impact your chances significantly.
In addition to these comments, out of interest my group tested brd instead of sch out a couple weeks back. If your group is decent, and you don't get completely icky floors, the brd can just do one song every floor up (while the SCH is ususally accessioning a buff anyhow) to keep 2-3 songs up consistently. It's obvious that embrava vs marches will hurt the speed of floors because of the regain, but the main thing I am not looking forward to (especially as someone who has solely gone kraken ranger) is the lack of regen. Your scholar needs to get much better and/or DDs need to be more self-sufficient after this update.
Asura.Werdxi
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 248
By Asura.Werdxi 2012-10-25 11:30:48
Honestly, the part that hurts this embrava nerf the most is the duration. You can live w/o the regain cuz the haste is so high you attack so fast, ws arent as big of a deal. But that duration is just dumb. I'd honestly suggest, after this nerf, replacing the 2 sch with perhaps a whm, because you'll actually need real cures since the regen is gone. Also, maybe a cor. you get fairly good, instant buffs with a job that does damage.
I know that its possible to do neo nyzul in an untraditional way because, believe it or not, my group has done floor 100 w/o clipper. But one, we were flawless, and two, had great floors/jumps. You throw in more than 1 order floor, you're done. Doesnt matter how good you are, order is designed to destroy your time.
Honestly this entire thing wouldnt be so stupid if people could spam nyzul. But the one-tag-a-day restriction makes it dumb when this new nerf is going to make it a probly 5% win rate. Then SE gives you voidwatch, which you can spam as much as you want, but the drops are so bad, its disgusting. Hundreds of floors on many many different NMs, and I've NEVER recieved a body or weapon. >_> I enjoy this game because I have friends I help. But other than that, this game is seriously starting to blow.
Job Ability Adjustments: Tabula Rasa & Perfect Defense
Hello!
Prior to reducing the recast time of the existing SP abilities and introducing new SP abilities, we believe that we must revise the effects of Tabula Rasa and Perfect Defense. The adjustment is planned to be introduced in this week's test server update, but we want to convey the changes ahead of that so that we can begin gathering your feedback.
*Perfect Defense
**Duration: The duration will be reduced from 90 seconds to 30 seconds +1 second for each 20 summoning magic skill. For example, at 600 summoning magic skill, the duration would be 60 seconds (30 + 30 seconds).
**Effect: No change
*Tabula Rasa
The effects of the white magic "Embrava" will be adjusted as follows:
**Duration: Reduced from 5 minutes to 90 seconds.
**Haste Effect: Reduced to 15% + 1% for each 20 enhancing skill. Maximum of +25% at 500 enhancing skill.
**Regain Effect: Changed to Refresh effect (the #/tick is the same as before, based on skill).
Since utilizing the above abilities has become mainstream in order to progress through certain battle content, we have planned to lower the difficulty of that content in accordance with this update.
*Nyzul Isle
**The required number of astraria to replace with the next higher floor equipment will be reduced from 25 to 5. The number in possession will be divided by 5 and rounded down. The premise that floor 100 will only be reached through a combination of great skill and luck does not change. Since the reliance on the effect of Embrava will be reduced, we will relieve this by reducing the number of required astraria for floors below.
*Legion
**Monster HP will be reduced by approximately 10%. All monsters will be included in this change. Since the progress as a whole will be faster but the support effects will be suppressed, we will maintain the 30 minute time limit, or keep it close.
*Einherjar
**Odin's HP (Odin's Chamber II) will be reduced by approximately 10~15%. Since the battle with Odin is more than with just the monster itself, Legion is slightly different, so we will reduce Odin's HP by slightly more.
We believe that Embrava and Perfect Defense have been used very significantly in other situations as well, such as with Provenance Watcher and Arch Dynamis Lord, but since these are very short battles, we want to see how the difficulty of these fights changes with the ability adjustments above before we make any adjustments to the fight difficulty.
These adjustments have been made in order to reduce performance of certain abilities that were too strong, with a reliance moreso now than ever on certain jobs and abilities in battle strategies. The purpose of the content adjustment along with these ability adjustments is to allow other strategies to be formed so that these events are not impossible. While reflecting on the adjustments in the test server this week, please recognize that balancing the adjustments will continue, and we would appreciate any comments you may have.
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