|
|
Abyssea Era Ending?
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10
By Asura.Shikabane 2011-02-27 16:22:12
Asura.Solara said: Asura.Shikabane said: I'd really like to see proof of PLD being such a bad tank PreAby. Aside from salvage and similar events... PLD was beast.
I mean, Nin tanks on Ixion were amazing...
oh wait
Prove what? That other jobs negated damage (Drk+Rdm), held hate (Drk+Rdm+Sam), or were overall more efficient for kills(Drk+Sam) than Pld? Basic game mechanics already prove that.
Both Sam and Rdm out tanked Pld on Ixion. Pld wasn't a beast on anything, it was an easy to play/cheap to gear alternative to using a better tank.
What type of logic is this? RDM I understand, but SAM would die in seconds.
 Leviathan.Draylo
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
By Leviathan.Draylo 2011-02-27 16:23:40
Asura.Shikabane said: Asura.Solara said: Asura.Shikabane said: I'd really like to see proof of PLD being such a bad tank PreAby. Aside from salvage and similar events... PLD was beast.
I mean, Nin tanks on Ixion were amazing...
oh wait
Prove what? That other jobs negated damage (Drk+Rdm), held hate (Drk+Rdm+Sam), or were overall more efficient for kills(Drk+Sam) than Pld? Basic game mechanics already prove that.
Both Sam and Rdm out tanked Pld on Ixion. Pld wasn't a beast on anything, it was an easy to play/cheap to gear alternative to using a better tank.
What type of logic is this? RDM I understand, but SAM would die in seconds. 
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4554
By Bahamut.Raenryong 2011-02-27 16:24:25
Asura.Shikabane said: What type of logic is this? RDM I understand, but SAM would die in seconds.
Do you believe PLD to have a significant defensive edge over other jobs?
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2011-02-27 16:26:27
Asura.Shikabane said: Asura.Solara said: Asura.Shikabane said: I'd really like to see proof of PLD being such a bad tank PreAby. Aside from salvage and similar events... PLD was beast.
I mean, Nin tanks on Ixion were amazing...
oh wait
Prove what? That other jobs negated damage (Drk+Rdm), held hate (Drk+Rdm+Sam), or were overall more efficient for kills(Drk+Sam) than Pld? Basic game mechanics already prove that.
Both Sam and Rdm out tanked Pld on Ixion. Pld wasn't a beast on anything, it was an easy to play/cheap to gear alternative to using a better tank.
What type of logic is this? RDM I understand, but SAM would die in seconds. 
 Bahamut.Dasva
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13835
By Bahamut.Dasva 2011-02-27 16:30:05
Bahamut.Raenryong said: Asura.Shikabane said: What type of logic is this? RDM I understand, but SAM would die in seconds. Do you believe PLD to have a significant defensive edge over other jobs? Shields and mastery of them
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10
By Asura.Shikabane 2011-02-27 16:30:16
Bahamut.Raenryong said: Asura.Shikabane said: What type of logic is this? RDM I understand, but SAM would die in seconds.
Do you believe PLD to have a significant defensive edge over other jobs?
No, but I don't see how a SAM can do any better than a pld in the present situation. Could probably hold hate better, but in terms of survivability.
I tried this once a year ago and we wiped cause the sam died in one tp move.
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4554
By Bahamut.Raenryong 2011-02-27 16:33:42
SAM can wear more or less the same PDT/MDT options that PLD can. Requires the SAM not to suck but yeah.
Serveur: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15065
By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-02-27 16:34:48
I was just talking about you in that mithra picture in the recent photo additions.
Leviathan.Draylo
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
By Leviathan.Draylo 2011-02-27 16:34:53
Bahamut.Dasva said: Bahamut.Raenryong said: Asura.Shikabane said: What type of logic is this? RDM I understand, but SAM would die in seconds. Do you believe PLD to have a significant defensive edge over other jobs? Shields and mastery of them  ?
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10
By Asura.Shikabane 2011-02-27 16:35:58
I guess it's a I'll have to see it to believe it issue.
But I've never once seen a SAM or DRK tanking efficiently. (By efficiently I mean lasting a substantial amount of time, cause all tanks have a chance of dying, you know comes with the job).
But if a job is going to tank to last around 5 minutes and die, that too me is well, not a tank.
Serveur: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6558
By Odin.Zicdeh 2011-02-27 16:38:22
Naked White mage with rose wand +1 Could tank, as long as ***was Elegied and Slowed.
Also, Paladin does have one defensive advantage on other jobs, the Shield.
It's wholly unnecessary, but lets suckfest not *** up your day in one second.
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2011-02-27 16:38:55
There's nothing wrong with a Rose Wand +1.
Bahamut.Dasva
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13835
By Bahamut.Dasva 2011-02-27 16:40:12
Bahamut.Raenryong said: SAM can wear more or less the same PDT/MDT options that PLD can. Requires the SAM not to suck but yeah. Yeah but shield blocks go past that. More importantly helps put ichi back up
By Serj 2011-02-27 16:41:16
Asura.Solara
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 536
By Asura.Solara 2011-02-27 16:41:52
Asura.Shikabane said: No, but I don't see how a SAM can do any better than a pld in the present situation. Could probably hold hate better, but in terms of survivability.
I tried this once a year ago and we wiped cause the sam died in one tp move.
Both had a similar amount of mdt/pdt, and Sam had 3e to fall back on if shadows go down. With the constant damage output, they were both more efficient for the overall fight and better at holding hate on any engaged mob than Pld was at 75.
Bahamut.Dasva
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13835
By Bahamut.Dasva 2011-02-27 16:44:21
Flash> 3eye unless using seigan... but then you kill your utsesmi recast so meh.
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10
By Asura.Shikabane 2011-02-27 16:48:12
Asura.Solara said: Asura.Shikabane said: No, but I don't see how a SAM can do any better than a pld in the present situation. Could probably hold hate better, but in terms of survivability.
I tried this once a year ago and we wiped cause the sam died in one tp move.
Both had a similar amount of mdt/pdt, and Sam had 3e to fall back on if shadows go down. With the constant damage output, they were both more efficient for the overall fight and better at holding hate on any engaged mob than Pld was at 75.
Okay, I'm actually quite pleased with this explanation, what I don't get is, all this stuff looks great on paper, but I've never once seen it done.
Same with a bunch of other mobs. RDM I agree with, always have. DRK and SAM tanks I've never ever seen though and if they're really as good as everyone claim. how come so few people ever did it?
I quit the game like 6 months after WoTG was released, these strategies can't have been developed between that time and when Aby came out, seems like to long for people to start experimenting.
By Serj 2011-02-27 16:48:27
Tank /war. Or be unlazy and cancel your seigan and reapply it when needed.
Serveur: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6558
By Odin.Zicdeh 2011-02-27 16:50:51
Asura.Solara said: Asura.Shikabane said: No, but I don't see how a SAM can do any better than a pld in the present situation. Could probably hold hate better, but in terms of survivability.
I tried this once a year ago and we wiped cause the sam died in one tp move.
Both had a similar amount of mdt/pdt, and Sam had 3e to fall back on if shadows go down. With the constant damage output, they were both more efficient for the overall fight and better at holding hate on any engaged mob than Pld was at 75.
I don't actually agree with that "Better at holding hate on Non-engaged" mob bit, but I've always been privy to good PLD's who use super-awesome cure-cheat sets. I wouldn't say PLD was better, but honestly, on a hate level, I've never seen a situation where it's less than equal, assuming proper buffs for either job.
inb4ugotshittyDDs
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4554
By Bahamut.Raenryong 2011-02-27 16:51:04
People didn't do it because there was no real advantage gained to doing so. That is to say, being more efficient did reduce the time taken to kill mobs but you were still limited by a certain number of kills per day. You could sometimes miss HNM claims etc if you took too long to kill but this was a rarity.
In Abyssea, faster killing and killing with as few as possible (ie, consolidating different roles into one job - hence the DD tank) became extremely advantageous. That and the change in gameplay just caused people to smarten up and realise that PLD wasn't this extremely necessary tank job.
Also, shield does not proc qq
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10
By Asura.Shikabane 2011-02-27 16:52:23
PLD would loose hate eventually anyways, it's about getting that hate back quickly that makes the difference between a shitty pld and one who knows his ***.
And in relation to the above post, I understand this.
I don't think PLD has much use inside Aby, but I still welcome them outside.
Leviathan.Draylo
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
By Leviathan.Draylo 2011-02-27 16:53:31
Asura.Shikabane said: PLD would loose hate eventually anyways, it's about getting that hate back quickly that makes the difference between a shitty pld and one who knows his ***.
Not really, most DD tanks could do the same. You shouldn't be losing hate to a mage anyway unless they suck. (Pre abby that is).
Asura.Solara
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 536
By Asura.Solara 2011-02-27 16:58:38
Asura.Shikabane said:
Okay, I'm actually quite pleased with this explanation, what I don't get is, all this stuff looks great on paper, but I've never once seen it done.
Same with a bunch of other mobs. RDM I agree with, always have. DRK and SAM tanks I've never ever seen though and if they're really as good as everyone claim. how come so few people ever did it?
I quit the game like 6 months after WoTG was released, these strategies can't have been developed between that time and when Aby came out, seems like to long for people to start experimenting.
Like I said, Pld is easy to gear and easy to use, most people just never felt the need to take the training wheels off. The majority of Sam and Drk purely played offensively, and lacked the gear necessary for tanking.
There's also the fact that in a lot of shells DD tanks rarely got an opportunity to try because at the first sign of failure the Pld got tossed back in. Most new Plds started off as second stringers in Dyna or add duty on Kirin, etc., so they had a chance to ease into tanking comfortably, while DD tanks weren't afforded the same luxury.
It was only the groups who were just plain bored at the ease of a lot of content that were willing to take the time to explore other options.
[+]
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 456
By Leviathan.Alkalinejoe 2011-02-27 16:59:44
Fenrir.Enternius said:
If we've learned anything from SE after the companies merged, all they're interested in is the money part.
Lol, I thought people were over the merge already.
Bahamut.Dasva
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13835
By Bahamut.Dasva 2011-02-27 17:02:41
Sentinel is pretty boss for HF mobs
Leviathan.Draylo
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
By Leviathan.Draylo 2011-02-27 17:03:42
So is PDT gear.
Ragnarok.Harpunnik
Serveur: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 867
By Ragnarok.Harpunnik 2011-02-27 17:04:42
This forum is obsessed with PLD. I think secretly, deep down, you all get on some alternate character late at night and play PLD until sun up.
[+]
Asura.Solara
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 536
By Asura.Solara 2011-02-27 17:07:40
Odin.Zicdeh said:
I don't actually agree with that "Better at holding hate on Non-engaged" mob bit, but I've always been privy to good PLD's who use super-awesome cure-cheat sets. I wouldn't say PLD was better, but honestly, on a hate level, I've never seen a situation where it's less than equal, assuming proper buffs for either job.
inb4ugotshittyDDs
Cure cheats are fine and all, but won't rebuild hate as quickly as simply dding will. A DD tank maintains capped enmity vs other capped players more consistently by simply swinging or wsing, while the Pld would be confined to cure cast speed when other hate building abilities were down. That's specifically for engaged mobs, not unengaged.
For unengaged tanking, Rdm and Drk won because they had higher enmity generation from their spells, a lot of which had very short cast/recast timers, and low mp cost. Those are for the most part nerfed now though, so Pld's only real unengaged competition post Abyssea will be Blu.
By Serj 2011-02-27 17:10:51
Seriously people. Go look up the enmity generation from blu spells. They can get almost 2/5th capped CE/VE in 1 spell. That's base enmity. Throw sentinel up and they are almost instantly capped (lol /pld).
I know cap is going up to 99 and there are no more abyssea expansions, so basically i been doing some thinking and it seems like abyssea is going to end soon and just turn into an event like limbus or dynamis after 90-99 expansion comes out. And all those empreyan weapons that were done are now going to be crap outside;;
What are your thoughts?
|
|
