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Abyssea Era Ending?
 Caitsith.Neonracer
Serveur: Caitsith
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2748
By Caitsith.Neonracer 2011-02-27 10:50:29
Unicorn.Ducea said: lol @ people complaining emp weapons took weeks or even months. people used to wait years for a single piece of gear from their ls events. people are obviously already spoiled by abyssea. try taking down old nms without atmas. people complain the game is too easy now but I haven't seen any threads about people mercing long standing nms. PW? AV? oh right cant use atma against those. abyssea makes leveling faster. nothing more. relax people
This is a good post. Exactly what I mean. if something is so easy and you want hard, Solo something on mainland( not abyssea ) or go into abyssea and don't brew, its that simple.
[+]
By Serj 2011-02-27 10:50:55
Cerberus.Finalvegeta said: Serj said: Cerberus.Finalvegeta said: Serj said: Bahamut.Dasva said: Sylph.Tigerwoods said: Let's take tiamat for example. We were 75, he's 95 (according to wiki anyway). 20 lvs. So now we're 90, if they were to make a tiamat clone that was lv 110, outside of abyssea, do you honestly think it'd be the same difficulty as tiamat at 75? No, because you can afford to ***mp for breakfast. Which implies that we would actually need to spend more mp therefore we would run out if we weren't being careful just like before. Can't face tank everything.
Idk, a whm with +2 legs, capped healing +%, a rdm, and a brd, on top of new subjob abilities, would be pretty hard pressed to run out of mp.
Implies that you actually have a rdm and a brd. That is 2 more players that you need compared to now.
You'd bring two people to a lvl 110 tiamat?
No, that's why it's not as easy. Can't just bring your MNK and WHM to kill it. Need actually ppl. Right now MNK and WHM can kill everything right? The more ppl you need = the harder something is imo. Now you can lowman everything without effort.
You could lowman content then, and still will be able to low man most content. Bringing 4-6 people to a nm isn't hard.
And there are nms in abyssea that mnk + whm can't duo. Are they hard? No, you just need a few more people and need to pay attention.
Serveur: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15065
By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-02-27 10:50:59
Bahamut.Dasva said: Sylph.Tigerwoods said: Bahamut.Dasva said: Sylph.Tigerwoods said: There'd be much less need to spam heal in this situation now though. The atmas only offer that refresh. Brd and rdm as sources of refresh bring elegy and slow II. The tank will be taking a lot less damage and will not need to be healed in the same fashion as face tanking in abyssea, so I don't see hate due to overcuring coming close to being an issue. Assuming people actually step up there game and stop face tanking. Ie try harder.
Also those atmas offer capped -emnity cure potency lots of mnd to cap slow/para easily. Stats/macc to land said debuffs and fast cast I don't see what part of casting slow II and elegy is hard. That'd actually make the fight easier, I don't see what part of anything I said that just casting those spells is hard and you shouldn't do it or something Well, you quoted my post and answered with info that had 0 to do with what I had just said, so I figured I'd do the same.
Serveur: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 488
By Cerberus.Finalvegeta 2011-02-27 10:52:46
Serj said: Cerberus.Finalvegeta said: Serj said: Cerberus.Finalvegeta said: Serj said: Bahamut.Dasva said: Sylph.Tigerwoods said: Let's take tiamat for example. We were 75, he's 95 (according to wiki anyway). 20 lvs. So now we're 90, if they were to make a tiamat clone that was lv 110, outside of abyssea, do you honestly think it'd be the same difficulty as tiamat at 75? No, because you can afford to ***mp for breakfast. Which implies that we would actually need to spend more mp therefore we would run out if we weren't being careful just like before. Can't face tank everything.
Idk, a whm with +2 legs, capped healing +%, a rdm, and a brd, on top of new subjob abilities, would be pretty hard pressed to run out of mp.
Implies that you actually have a rdm and a brd. That is 2 more players that you need compared to now.
You'd bring two people to a lvl 110 tiamat?
No, that's why it's not as easy. Can't just bring your MNK and WHM to kill it. Need actually ppl. Right now MNK and WHM can kill everything right? The more ppl you need = the harder something is imo. Now you can lowman everything without effort.
You could lowman content then, and still will be able to low man most content. Bringing 4-6 people to a nm isn't hard.
And there are nms in abyssea that mnk + whm can't duo. Are they hard? No, you just need a few more people and need to pay attention.
Can brew those then. Problem solved. Proc blue !!, pop brew, get drop. Never have to kill it again and not worry about it.
By Serj 2011-02-27 10:54:25
Cerberus.Finalvegeta said: Serj said: Cerberus.Finalvegeta said: Serj said: Cerberus.Finalvegeta said: Serj said: Bahamut.Dasva said: Sylph.Tigerwoods said: Let's take tiamat for example. We were 75, he's 95 (according to wiki anyway). 20 lvs. So now we're 90, if they were to make a tiamat clone that was lv 110, outside of abyssea, do you honestly think it'd be the same difficulty as tiamat at 75? No, because you can afford to ***mp for breakfast. Which implies that we would actually need to spend more mp therefore we would run out if we weren't being careful just like before. Can't face tank everything.
Idk, a whm with +2 legs, capped healing +%, a rdm, and a brd, on top of new subjob abilities, would be pretty hard pressed to run out of mp.
Implies that you actually have a rdm and a brd. That is 2 more players that you need compared to now.
You'd bring two people to a lvl 110 tiamat?
No, that's why it's not as easy. Can't just bring your MNK and WHM to kill it. Need actually ppl. Right now MNK and WHM can kill everything right? The more ppl you need = the harder something is imo. Now you can lowman everything without effort.
You could lowman content then, and still will be able to low man most content. Bringing 4-6 people to a nm isn't hard.
And there are nms in abyssea that mnk + whm can't duo. Are they hard? No, you just need a few more people and need to pay attention.
Can brew those then. Problem solved. Proc blue !!, pop brew, get drop. Never have to kill it again and not worry about it.
I rather have a few competent friends help me kill hero's trophy nms than brewing 75 trophy drops.
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Game: FFXI
Posts: 488
By Cerberus.Finalvegeta 2011-02-27 10:55:55
Like what? WHM MNK BLM can kill those easily
 Bahamut.Dasva
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13835
By Bahamut.Dasva 2011-02-27 10:56:01
Sylph.Tigerwoods said: Bahamut.Dasva said: Sylph.Tigerwoods said: Bahamut.Dasva said: Sylph.Tigerwoods said: There'd be much less need to spam heal in this situation now though. The atmas only offer that refresh. Brd and rdm as sources of refresh bring elegy and slow II. The tank will be taking a lot less damage and will not need to be healed in the same fashion as face tanking in abyssea, so I don't see hate due to overcuring coming close to being an issue. Assuming people actually step up there game and stop face tanking. Ie try harder.
Also those atmas offer capped -emnity cure potency lots of mnd to cap slow/para easily. Stats/macc to land said debuffs and fast cast I don't see what part of casting slow II and elegy is hard. That'd actually make the fight easier, I don't see what part of anything I said that just casting those spells is hard and you shouldn't do it or something Well, you quoted my post and answered with info that had 0 to do with what I had just said, so I figured I'd do the same. Not really. You say things aren't harder and yet assume people will be trying harder has everything to do with what you said.
You mention debuffs as something that help out. I mention those debuffs will be much less effective assuming you land them at all.
You say atmas only offer you refresh I say what else they give you.
Points and direct counterpoints not that hard to understand
Serveur: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6558
By Odin.Zicdeh 2011-02-27 10:57:23
Serveur: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15065
By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-02-27 10:57:41
Quote: You mention debuffs as something that help out. I mention those debuffs will be much less effective assuming you land them at all.
So you're telling me that mnk + whm w/ slow I and para I is and MND atma is going to be more effective than brd + rdm slow II para II elegy?
Don't need the other 2 jobs inside of abyssea, remember? And outside if you're going to use them as your atma (refresh) why not have them use the other ***they have available.
Serveur: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 488
By Cerberus.Finalvegeta 2011-02-27 10:58:48
Sylph.Tigerwoods said: Quote: You mention debuffs as something that help out. I mention those debuffs will be much less effective assuming you land them at all.
So you're telling me that mnk + whm w/ slow I and para I is and MND atma is going to be more effective than brd + rdm slow II para II elegy?
Don't need the other 2 jobs inside of abyssea, remember? And outside if you're going to use them as your atma (refresh) why not have them use the other ***they have available.
>IF< you will pretty much need them. Please answer my question tho :x
Serveur: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15065
By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-02-27 11:00:06
Cerberus.Finalvegeta said: Sylph.Tigerwoods said: Quote: You mention debuffs as something that help out. I mention those debuffs will be much less effective assuming you land them at all.
So you're telling me that mnk + whm w/ slow I and para I is and MND atma is going to be more effective than brd + rdm slow II para II elegy?
Don't need the other 2 jobs inside of abyssea, remember? And outside if you're going to use them as your atma (refresh) why not have them use the other ***they have available.
>IF< you will pretty much need them. Please answer my question tho :x Which one? Unless I missed it on the last page, I don't see one on this page that's directed towards me.
By Serj 2011-02-27 11:00:06
Cerberus.Finalvegeta said: Like what? WHM MNK BLM can kill those easily
Is that a duo? And you should have at least 2 stuns for Apademak. Rdm debuffs (Addle in particular) help a ton also for harder nms. Throw in another DD so you don't take 5 years and have a backup in case you bite it so you don't lose the pop and you're up to 4-6 people.
Edit: This goes for anything, inside or outside. Have a brd for more refresh and debuffs and you're golden.
Serveur: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
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By Cerberus.Finalvegeta 2011-02-27 11:02:14
Not a big difference between duo and trio. And most noobs can still kill that ***with 3. Especially since they can duo/trio their af3+2 easily. Try to trio the hard nms before these updates, you will have a LOT harder time
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Posts: 15065
By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-02-27 11:04:21
Well even then, it's not that the NMs were specially hard, just that with a lower number of players, you'd deal less damage so wouldn't meet the time restraints for rage timers. Staying alive wouldn't have been the problem in those scenarios. Either that or just NMs w/ regen that one dd isn't going to beat on his own.
I can think of a couple of exceptions, things that spawn children like JoL, but not many.
Bahamut.Dasva
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13835
By Bahamut.Dasva 2011-02-27 11:05:08
Sylph.Tigerwoods said: Quote: You mention debuffs as something that help out. I mention those debuffs will be much less effective assuming you land them at all. So you're telling me that mnk + whm w/ slow I and para I is and MND atma is going to be more effective than brd + rdm slow II para II elegy?
Don't need the other 2 jobs inside of abyssea, remember? And outside if you're going to use them as your atma (refresh) why not have them use the other ***they have available. If you are comparing inside to outside then potentially yes.
Especially when you start running into the brd getting resisted on all his elegies because he well geared. And yeah I saw that alot. Saw plenty of rdms that didn't cast debuffs on mobs even if they could land them. Landing ***now can be done naked assuming the mob isn't immune
By Serj 2011-02-27 11:05:57
Cerberus.Finalvegeta said: Not a big difference between duo and trio. And most noobs can still kill that ***with 3. Especially since they can duo/trio their af3+2 easily. Try to trio the hard nms before these updates, you will have a LOT harder time
I really, really, really doubt an incompetent group could ever trio Apademak or Azdaja. I doubt they could ever manage to kill them without brews, irregardless of their numbers.
Totally just ninjaed a 'n' in there.
 Sylph.Zohnax
Serveur: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 248
By Sylph.Zohnax 2011-02-27 11:08:45
How many circles can this thread run in? Jesus christ.
Bahamut.Dasva
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13835
By Bahamut.Dasva 2011-02-27 11:08:51
Serj said: Cerberus.Finalvegeta said: Not a big difference between duo and trio. And most noobs can still kill that ***with 3. Especially since they can duo/trio their af3+2 easily. Try to trio the hard nms before these updates, you will have a LOT harder time I really, really, really doubt a incompetent group could ever trio Apademak or Azdaja. I doubt they could ever manage to kill them without brews, irregardless of their numbers. When in doubt throw more numbers at it!!!
2nd allainces and what not
By Serj 2011-02-27 11:10:53
Bahamut.Dasva said: Serj said: Cerberus.Finalvegeta said: Not a big difference between duo and trio. And most noobs can still kill that ***with 3. Especially since they can duo/trio their af3+2 easily. Try to trio the hard nms before these updates, you will have a LOT harder time I really, really, really doubt a incompetent group could ever trio Apademak or Azdaja. I doubt they could ever manage to kill them without brews, irregardless of their numbers. When in doubt throw more numbers at it!!!
2nd allainces and what not
Ok, maybe with 4 alliances. Maybe.
Serveur: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 488
By Cerberus.Finalvegeta 2011-02-27 11:11:44
Sylph.Zohnax said: How many circles can this thread run in? Jesus christ. Don't have to read it.
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4554
By Bahamut.Raenryong 2011-02-27 11:12:47
Abyssea did make the battles of FFXI easier in a way, but not in the way you might expect.
Pre-Abyssea in stagnant FFXI, people felt no need to change their inefficient fighting methods since they'd always have bodies to throw at an NM. However, with Abyssea came a change in paradigm - suddenly lowmanning was very possible and rewarded, so people adapted their strategies. They found that PLD wasn't this essential MUST HAVE job to tank something (most people were realising this towards the end of stagnant FFXI anyway) and the potential of DD jobs as tanks. Atma etc just made these strategies more accessible.
The game didn't really get much easier - people just got better and are using better strategies.
Caitsith.Neonracer
Serveur: Caitsith
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2748
By Caitsith.Neonracer 2011-02-27 11:15:52
Bahamut.Raenryong said: Abyssea did make the battles of FFXI easier in a way, but not in the way you might expect.
Pre-Abyssea in stagnant FFXI, people felt no need to change their inefficient fighting methods since they'd always have bodies to throw at an NM. However, with Abyssea came a change in paradigm - suddenly lowmanning was very possible and rewarded, so people adapted their strategies. They found that PLD wasn't this essential MUST HAVE job to tank something (most people were realising this towards the end of stagnant FFXI anyway) and the potential of DD jobs as tanks. Atma etc just made these strategies more accessible.
The game didn't really get much easier - people just got better and are using better strategies.
There. That's using the bean, Rae!
Bahamut.Dasva
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13835
By Bahamut.Dasva 2011-02-27 11:16:24
Serj said: Bahamut.Dasva said: Serj said: Cerberus.Finalvegeta said: Not a big difference between duo and trio. And most noobs can still kill that ***with 3. Especially since they can duo/trio their af3+2 easily. Try to trio the hard nms before these updates, you will have a LOT harder time I really, really, really doubt a incompetent group could ever trio Apademak or Azdaja. I doubt they could ever manage to kill them without brews, irregardless of their numbers. When in doubt throw more numbers at it!!! 2nd allainces and what not Ok, maybe with 4 alliances. Maybe. Naw when 1 wipes just make them hp and warp right back :).
By Serj 2011-02-27 11:23:51
Bahamut.Dasva said: Serj said: Bahamut.Dasva said: Serj said: Cerberus.Finalvegeta said: Not a big difference between duo and trio. And most noobs can still kill that ***with 3. Especially since they can duo/trio their af3+2 easily. Try to trio the hard nms before these updates, you will have a LOT harder time I really, really, really doubt a incompetent group could ever trio Apademak or Azdaja. I doubt they could ever manage to kill them without brews, irregardless of their numbers. When in doubt throw more numbers at it!!! 2nd allainces and what not Ok, maybe with 4 alliances. Maybe. Naw when 1 wipes just make them hp and warp right back :).
But you're assuming they can make it back before the 2nd alliance wipes.
Bismarck.Drakelth
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By Bismarck.Drakelth 2011-02-27 11:34:41
Probaly has been said but, you all asume abyssea is going to end. When you have every player buying the addon for 10$. Its a good. Chunk of change and SE loves money. So I can see us having more abyssea type addons. Plus with abyssea they left the story open a tad so I wouldn't mind some more addons. Just look at the last mission they leave you on name.
Bahamut.Dasva
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Game: FFXI
Posts: 13835
By Bahamut.Dasva 2011-02-27 11:35:17
Serj said: Bahamut.Dasva said: Serj said: Bahamut.Dasva said: Serj said: Cerberus.Finalvegeta said: Not a big difference between duo and trio. And most noobs can still kill that ***with 3. Especially since they can duo/trio their af3+2 easily. Try to trio the hard nms before these updates, you will have a LOT harder time I really, really, really doubt a incompetent group could ever trio Apademak or Azdaja. I doubt they could ever manage to kill them without brews, irregardless of their numbers. When in doubt throw more numbers at it!!! 2nd allainces and what not Ok, maybe with 4 alliances. Maybe. Naw when 1 wipes just make them hp and warp right back :). But you're assuming they can make it back before the 2nd alliance wipes. If you can't kite/zombie 1 mob with an entire allaince for like 5 min you suck way too hard. Especially with apoc
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By Cerberus.Finalvegeta 2011-02-27 11:37:30
Bismarck.Drakelth said: Probaly has been said but, you all asume abyssea is going to end. When you have every player buying the addon for 10$. Its a good. Chunk of change and SE loves money. So I can see us having more abyssea type addons. Plus with abyssea they left the story open a tad so I wouldn't mind some more addons. Just look at the last mission they leave you on name.
They left it open? I never read CSs so IDK :3 But isn't the last CS that you sit there on the empyreal paradox thing and talk to prishe that everything is over now?
Bahamut.Dasva
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Game: FFXI
Posts: 13835
By Bahamut.Dasva 2011-02-27 11:40:47
Cerberus.Finalvegeta said: Bismarck.Drakelth said: Probaly has been said but, you all asume abyssea is going to end. When you have every player buying the addon for 10$. Its a good. Chunk of change and SE loves money. So I can see us having more abyssea type addons. Plus with abyssea they left the story open a tad so I wouldn't mind some more addons. Just look at the last mission they leave you on name. They left it open? I never read CSs so IDK :3 But isn't the last CS that you sit there on the empyreal paradox thing and talk to prishe that everything is over now? Well technically you thought it was over before now... and the whole abyssea thing is because it wasn't.
But didn't SE say awhile back that this would be the last abyssea addon?
It's not like they can't make other addons. In fact it would be better since the more abyssea ones they make the less necessary each one becomes. Make something completely new and different on the other hand... well different and new on the surface anyways.
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By Asura.Matzilla 2011-02-27 11:43:41
But you'd buy it anyways so whats it matter?
By Serj 2011-02-27 11:44:37
Bahamut.Dasva said: Serj said: Bahamut.Dasva said: Serj said: Bahamut.Dasva said: Serj said: Cerberus.Finalvegeta said: Not a big difference between duo and trio. And most noobs can still kill that ***with 3. Especially since they can duo/trio their af3+2 easily. Try to trio the hard nms before these updates, you will have a LOT harder time I really, really, really doubt a incompetent group could ever trio Apademak or Azdaja. I doubt they could ever manage to kill them without brews, irregardless of their numbers. When in doubt throw more numbers at it!!! 2nd allainces and what not Ok, maybe with 4 alliances. Maybe. Naw when 1 wipes just make them hp and warp right back :). But you're assuming they can make it back before the 2nd alliance wipes. If you can't kite/zombie 1 mob with an entire allaince for like 5 min you suck way too hard. Especially with apoc
I'm really tempted to make a PUG for one of those. Just for the epic lulz of 17 people zombie fighting a nm that rapes all of them for hours. The carnage would be... beautiful.
I know cap is going up to 99 and there are no more abyssea expansions, so basically i been doing some thinking and it seems like abyssea is going to end soon and just turn into an event like limbus or dynamis after 90-99 expansion comes out. And all those empreyan weapons that were done are now going to be crap outside;;
What are your thoughts?
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