Best Atmas For Monk?

Langues: JP EN DE FR
users online
Forum » FFXI » Jobs » Monk » Best atmas for Monk?
Best atmas for Monk?
 Quetzalcoatl.Khrnos
Offline
Serveur: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
user: khrnos
Posts: 210
By Quetzalcoatl.Khrnos 2011-01-10 13:02:54
Link | Citer | R
 
Lakshmi.Blacklion said:
I use GH over VV In times that i need the AGI So NMS Don't Spam Tp attacks on me, as for what you said About regain being useless, Not everyone sits there fighting exp mobs all day for (Eww ruby)

like i said different NM and different goals means different atams. and not everyone sits around (at least not me) and uses the 2/tick regain for TP to use on NMs, can get TP 5x faster just by smacking a nearby exp mob or if your main purpose is to trigger blue without doing damage then there are better atmas for just that purpose if u dont want to pull a TP mob. and of course there are better atmas for pure tanking NMs purposes but my combo is just fore pure DD which i can still use on a lot of NMs anyways, for kill speed and DD for hate purposes, if they cant one shot me or have some annoying TP attack.

Sylph.Tigerwoods said:
Quote:
i worded it wrong but i average 3-4k A fury and on occasions spike up to 6k+ if everything's perfect.

You don't average 3-4k, sorry(unless you're fighthing ***that takes extra dmg). That's a pretty bad eyeballing job you're doing there.

dont care to argue about wat i, or any other monk, can and cannot do but A&O beats VV for pure overall damage (imho) is all i wanted to say.
 Lakshmi.Blacklion
Offline
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
user: Blacklion
Posts: 190
By Lakshmi.Blacklion 2011-01-10 13:29:11
Link | Citer | R
 
Lol ok i'll Test it and get back with you in a few days
 Caitsith.Crunkie
Offline
Serveur: Caitsith
Game: FFXI
user: Crunkie
Posts: 91
By Caitsith.Crunkie 2011-01-10 13:36:45
Link | Citer | R
 
Khrnos what do you use for tanking Cats on your mnk? My mule needs some from the first two zones and want to dualbox them, any Suggestions?
 Quetzalcoatl.Khrnos
Offline
Serveur: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
user: khrnos
Posts: 210
By Quetzalcoatl.Khrnos 2011-01-10 19:45:48
Link | Citer | R
 
Caitsith.Crunkie said:
Khrnos what do you use for tanking Cats on your mnk? My mule needs some from the first two zones and want to dualbox them, any Suggestions?

caturaes? i usually just go all out DD or put on GH/SS/AoA (ebon hoof or RR b4 i got AoA). havnt ever dual boxed em some dont know how different that would be but my guess is more HP the better. saw an Galka MNK and a WHM duo Iratham and it could barely dent his HP enough to cause any major trouble. just be ready for their unique TP moves and you should b fine.
 Sylph.Tigerwoods
Offline
Serveur: Sylph
Game: FFXI
user: Vegetto
Posts: 15064
By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-01-10 19:59:51
Link | Citer | R
 
Why would you ever in any situation not use razed ruins?
[+]
 Alexander.Francisco
Offline
Serveur: Alexander
Game: FFXI
user: Francisco
Posts: 86
By Alexander.Francisco 2011-01-10 21:07:41
Link | Citer | R
 
Sylph.Tigerwoods said:
Why would you ever in any situation not use razed ruins?

Other than not having it, Catacleaving, or being a total failtard?

Actually, it might be beneficial to not use RR on some shitty NMs you want multiple !! procs on, and you're afraid of killing it too fast. I dunno.

Relatively small sample size of eyeballing, but I prefer RR/GH/DD over RR/GH/VV. Crit rate isn't quite 100%, but seems to be in the 95% range, or higher... when I started eye-parsing it, I was convinced it had put me at 100% crit rate, until I finally landed a non-crit after 5 minutes or so.

I miss the regain from VV, because that was pretty nice, especially when waiting on ??? repops or moving between NMs/looking for VNMs. I barely notice the DA from VV is gone, and while 50 STR might boost Victory Smite substantially, going from ~95% to ~65% crit rate (eyeballing) seems like you've been gimped to all hell in comparison.

I'll play with RR/GH/VV a bit more, because I didn't really give it a fair chance, but I don't see anyway it'd beat RR/GH/SS. Still missing SS, but the crit damage bonus seems like it'd be a bigger boon to Victory Smite than the 50 STR - not to mention DoT. Still need to drag my LS out to kill Bukhis.
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
Offline
Serveur: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: Nightfyre
Posts: 11680
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2011-01-10 21:22:46
Link | Citer | R
 
DD and SS are pretty crap for DPS atmas when you factor in Impetus enhancing both critrate and critdmg (w/ AF3 body) and the respective caps on each.
 Alexander.Francisco
Offline
Serveur: Alexander
Game: FFXI
user: Francisco
Posts: 86
By Alexander.Francisco 2011-01-10 23:55:55
Link | Citer | R
 
Fenrir.Nightfyre said:
DD and SS are pretty crap for DPS atmas when you factor in Impetus enhancing both critrate and critdmg (w/ AF3 body) and the respective caps on each.

You can randomly get boned on Impetus though if you're obligatory 5% miss rate decides to proc at bad times. And Impetus is only up 60% of the time, much of which is not at full strength.

Where'd you get the data on AF3 Body increasing crit damage with Impetus up? I've noticed the obvious boosts (+2 attack per hit -> +3 attack per hit; +100 max attack bonus -> +150 max attack bonus) - but it's hard to eyeball a boost to crit damage. At least when you're not looking for it.
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
Offline
Serveur: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: Nightfyre
Posts: 11680
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2011-01-11 01:17:29
Link | Citer | R
 
Still weakens the impact of said atmas, and given that they lose to Apoc even without AF3+2 body it should really just be driving the point home that those atmas aren't what you need to be using. Apoc is the second most powerful atma available for MNK DD, after RR.

I've seen several posts to that effect, the most solid being one using /ra to not only identify the bonus but the value thereof (+1%/hit) due to the way ranged pDIF works.
 Shiva.Tahtertaht
Offline
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
user: ShivaTaht
Posts: 3
By Shiva.Tahtertaht 2011-01-17 20:32:20
Link | Citer | R
 
Ok, so im working on VS at the moment and dont have Ascetic's Fury. My question is, are RR Gh and SS my best option still? I'm thinking that RR and GH still are my best 2 option, it's the 3rd one im unsure of.
 Sylph.Tigerwoods
Offline
Serveur: Sylph
Game: FFXI
user: Vegetto
Posts: 15064
By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-01-17 20:36:24
Link | Citer | R
 
RR AoA A/O for absolute damage.

RR AoA GH for slightly reduced damage and better stats overall (no -hp, counter+)
 Shiva.Tahtertaht
Offline
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
user: ShivaTaht
Posts: 3
By Shiva.Tahtertaht 2011-01-17 20:39:44
Link | Citer | R
 
Excuse my ignorence. Is AoA atma of aquatic ardor?
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
Offline
Serveur: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: Nightfyre
Posts: 11680
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2011-01-17 20:44:50
Link | Citer | R
 
Apocalypse
 Cerberus.Blazed
Offline
Serveur: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 110
By Cerberus.Blazed 2011-01-18 06:08:25
Link | Citer | R
 
I think SS is seriously underated.
Vs a Vere mnk using GH/RR/Apoc and me using GH/RR/SS my Ascetic furys were towering over his Victory Smites. 3.4k-5.1k Furys vs his 2.5k-4.2k Smites.
We did a total of 8 Alfards and the theme for that night was "why does victory smite suck?"
It wasn't smite. It was his choice in Atmas cuz I have seen Vere MNKs outparse me by 13% with inferior gear and skill.
 Ifrit.Hitoseijuro
Offline
Serveur: Ifrit
Game: FFXI
Posts: 152
By Ifrit.Hitoseijuro 2011-01-18 15:53:24
Link | Citer | R
 
Cerberus.Blazed said:
I think SS is seriously underated. Vs a Vere mnk using GH/RR/Apoc and me using GH/RR/SS my Ascetic furys were towering over his Victory Smites. 3.4k-5.1k Furys vs his 2.5k-4.2k Smites. We did a total of 8 Alfards and the theme for that night was "why does victory smite suck?" It wasn't smite. It was his choice in Atmas cuz I have seen Vere MNKs outparse me by 13% with inferior gear and skill.

1: SS loses its potential with 50% crit damage cap. With RR(30%) and +2 body impetus, SS loses even more potential then it did before. Any real gain you get with SS is lost once you have RR/Impetus(+2)

2: Those are very bad numbers. Not to say its not possible(although the 5.1k is w/o apoc seems dubious). Those arent averages no were near them. Youll be averaging around 2.8-2.2K furys depending on zerk being up. Smite pushes 5k-3.5K averages. Looks to be a bit of eye balling from highs vs someones lows. Gear could play a part but not enough to make that much of a difference. Maybe buffs too.

Did you guys parse it?
 Sylph.Tigerwoods
Offline
Serveur: Sylph
Game: FFXI
user: Vegetto
Posts: 15064
By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-01-18 16:02:17
Link | Citer | R
 
Pretty much the last post sums it all up.
 Sylph.Tigerwoods
Offline
Serveur: Sylph
Game: FFXI
user: Vegetto
Posts: 15064
By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-01-18 16:16:10
Link | Citer | R
 
SS is a 15.38% increase in crit damage when using in combination with razed ruins.

Let's say we deal 100 dmg on a crit punch.

Razed ruins, 30% crit dmg brings that to 130.

Adding SS, brings it to 150.

150/130 = 15.38% increase as compared to Razed ruins alone.

Crit rate w/ RR GH SS is going to be 74% w/ crit merits.

So you're getting the 15% increase 74% of the time

.1538 x .74 = 11.38% increase in DoT and in WS dmg.

Now 15% TA on apoc is going to be devauled by DA/TA gear and /war, diff amounts depending no your da/ta, but have to remember, SS only increases DOT and WS dmg. AoA increases DoT, WS dmg, AND ws frequency.

No way you're going to get less than 11.38% w/ it. If you give me an example set i can math it out later, but yea, lol. No way SS beats AoA
 Ifrit.Hitoseijuro
Offline
Serveur: Ifrit
Game: FFXI
Posts: 152
By Ifrit.Hitoseijuro 2011-01-18 17:18:15
Link | Citer | R
 
Sylph.Tigerwoods said:
SS is a 15.38% increase in crit damage when using in combination with razed ruins. Let's say we deal 100 dmg on a crit punch. Razed ruins, 30% crit dmg brings that to 130. Adding SS, brings it to 150. 150/130 = 15.38% increase as compared to Razed ruins alone.

Not to meantion when Impetus(+2) is up, that increase plummets to 4.16%
 Cerberus.Blazed
Offline
Serveur: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 110
By Cerberus.Blazed 2011-01-19 02:56:40
Link | Citer | R
 
TP


Fury

Also, Does Loki's Kaftan beat Cyclas +2 when Impetus down?

EDIT: Also if you can Tiger, math out Tantra Neck/Earring vs Faith Torque/Kemas, both with RR/GH/SS or RR/GH/A&O depending on results of above.
 Sylph.Kimble
Offline
Serveur: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2912
By Sylph.Kimble 2011-01-19 03:09:52
Link | Citer | R
 
Im pretty sure faith will win hands down do to raising base dmg
 Pandemonium.Lurtz
Offline
Serveur: Pandemonium
Game: FFXI
user: Lurtz
Posts: 2
By Pandemonium.Lurtz 2011-01-19 05:15:00
Link | Citer | R
 
Sylph.Tigerwoods said:
RR AoA A/O for absolute damage.

RR AoA GH for slightly reduced damage and better stats overall (no -hp, counter+)

Sorry, but whats A/O?
 Bismarck.Mitchel
Offline
Serveur: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 153
By Bismarck.Mitchel 2011-01-19 05:19:24
Link | Citer | R
 
Pandemonium.Lurtz said:
Sorry, but whats A/O?

Atma of Alpha and Omega
Triple Attack: Major (10%)
Attack: Major (+50)
HP-: Major (-25%)

From defeating Proto-Omega and obtaining the title "Apollyon Ravager"
 Leviathan.Mitsurughy
Offline
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
user: EnricO
Posts: 48
By Leviathan.Mitsurughy 2011-01-19 05:49:29
Link | Citer | R
 
and whats AoA?

Edit: nvm i know now, if its shinryu atma.
 Cerberus.Blazed
Offline
Serveur: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 110
By Cerberus.Blazed 2011-01-19 06:27:49
Link | Citer | R
 
A&O and Apoc often confused. Both are triple attack and their abreviations aren't standard yet.
I have honestly tried AoA/Apoc/RR... I'm just not seeing it... RR/GH/Apoc and RR/GH/SS and even RR/SS/Apoc seem to be superior.
I know there is maths, and I won't argue with it. I wish I could get the maths application working so I could do my own fine tuning. So I depend on parse logs (which are never a definitive means of establishing anything except how that particular event went) and my own eyeballing of results.
Since I started taking ques from Tiger I would say my game has improved a bit, but some other things that are agreed upon by the community don't always hold water in game. Might look great on paper, but in-game, there are times when my own instinct delivers better results.

Like I said, I wish I could take the time to install w/e windows patch needs to be installed on my PC to get the maths program working. I haven't seen it, so I am really starting to wonder just how many variables it compensates for.

One thing though, NIN does indeed outdo MNK if both are just focusing on delivering the highest amount of dmg output they can. Didn't need a parser to tell me this after I pimped out my NIN.

On the other Hand, NIN is *** paper. Even with same DMG% mitigation, MNK only for tanking.

EDIT: I think I took a couple screenshots that show 4-5 ascetic furys vs the smites on laptop. Will post them if I find them,
 Sylph.Tigerwoods
Offline
Serveur: Sylph
Game: FFXI
user: Vegetto
Posts: 15064
By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-01-19 09:01:55
Link | Citer | R
 
Not looking for individual furies. I know they can spike well. While you can spike 5k, I can guarantee your average in any decent sized sample of Afuries, will not even hit 3k.
 Sylph.Tigerwoods
Offline
Serveur: Sylph
Game: FFXI
user: Vegetto
Posts: 15064
By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-01-19 09:07:45
Link | Citer | R
 
Cerberus.Blazed said:
TP


Fury

Also, Does Loki's Kaftan beat Cyclas +2 when Impetus down?

EDIT: Also if you can Tiger, math out Tantra Neck/Earring vs Faith Torque/Kemas, both with RR/GH/SS or RR/GH/A&O depending on results of above.
As far as this question goes, Af3+2 (vs Loki) for impetus down. It's a bit closer for smite, but for Fury, it's 50% str and 50% vit, so you're getting +12 WSC, in addition to 21 attack. Even if attack is approaching cap, best loki should be able to do is match even w/ Tantra for fury.

As far as kick attacks neck/ear goes, I am pretty lazy atm, just got out of 1 class and getting rdy for the next, went to montonen's spreadsheet.

Torque if you're getting +1 base dmg > neck. Aesir > Tantra > Kemas.

Your STR is capped, your acc is capped. TP'ing in Kemas is equivalent to wearing nothing at all in the ear. It's ***.
 Sylph.Tigerwoods
Offline
Serveur: Sylph
Game: FFXI
user: Vegetto
Posts: 15064
By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-01-19 09:13:58
Link | Citer | R
 
Also, spreadsheet has Tantra+2 slightly over Juogi+1 for ws as well. (impetus down). Probably associated w/ the fact that 18% TA cuts down DA's bonus (since TA has priority to DA) and the fact that DA strikes are only 1.0 ftp, so they're not as much of an increase as a DA to a melee stirke, which would give equal value.
Log in to post.