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DNC: The new queen of FFXI!
 Carbuncle.Sevourn
Serveur: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9481
By Carbuncle.Sevourn 2010-06-17 15:09:20
Sylph.Kimble said: Generally speaking, people wont be receptive to information when you act like an *** about it.
Im sure once people resort to name calling and personal attacks, they lose a lot of credibility with people.
not following good advice because someone hurt your feelings is cutting off your nose to spite your face
you aren't gonna hurt or "get back at" the advice giver one bit by willingly staying gimp
 Shiva.Weewoo
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3323
By Shiva.Weewoo 2010-06-17 15:10:17
Well, people don't like to admit their faults or ignorance with the subject at hand, so they'll typically get really *** defensive over it, even if it is incorrect.
 Sylph.Kimble
Serveur: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2912
By Sylph.Kimble 2010-06-17 15:11:21
Carbuncle.Sevourn said: Sylph.Kimble said: Generally speaking, people wont be receptive to information when you act like an *** about it.
Im sure once people resort to name calling and personal attacks, they lose a lot of credibility with people.
not following good advice because someone hurt your feelings is cutting off your nose to spite your face
When you are generally nice and respectful to someone, they will take the advance as something constructive.
If you call someone stupid, ***, ugly, ***, etc while offering advice, you really think that person is trying to help you at all?
Sadly, its more about how you present the information.
Alexander.Varistor
Serveur: Alexander
Game: FFXI
Posts: 238
By Alexander.Varistor 2010-06-17 15:12:10
Sylph.Kimble said: Generally speaking, people wont be receptive to information when you act like an *** about it. Im sure once people resort to name calling and personal attacks, they lose a lot of credibility with people.
QFT. No matter how right you are or what you prove mathematically, the moment that person resorts to name-calling and rude degrading remarks, the listener is done listening and the ears shut off. right or wrong, that is how it is. and by 'you' i mean 'you in general'. At least that is how it is with me. If you are having trouble getting your point across or they just aren't getting it or refuse to get it, then just quit trying. name calling isn't going to all of a sudden make ppl see the light.
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Sylph.Kimble
Serveur: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2912
By Sylph.Kimble 2010-06-17 15:13:48
Alexander.Varistor said: Sylph.Kimble said: Generally speaking, people wont be receptive to information when you act like an *** about it. Im sure once people resort to name calling and personal attacks, they lose a lot of credibility with people.
QFT. No matter how right you are or what you prove mathematically, the moment that person resorts to name-calling and rude degrading remarks, the listener is done listening and the ears shut off. right or wrong, that is how it is. and by 'you' i mean 'you in general'. At least that is how it is with me. If you are having trouble getting your point across or they just aren't getting it or refuse to get it, then just quit trying. name calling isn't going to all of a sudden make ppl see the light.
Oh damn, you called me a ***! I see you're right now!
Yeah, doesn't really work that way, XD.
Carbuncle.Sevourn
Serveur: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9481
By Carbuncle.Sevourn 2010-06-17 15:14:38
Sylph.Kimble said: Carbuncle.Sevourn said: Sylph.Kimble said: Generally speaking, people wont be receptive to information when you act like an *** about it.
Im sure once people resort to name calling and personal attacks, they lose a lot of credibility with people.
not following good advice because someone hurt your feelings is cutting off your nose to spite your face
When you are generally nice and respectful to someone, they will take the advance as something constructive.
If you call someone stupid, ***, ugly, ***, etc while offering advice, you really think that person is trying to help you at all?
Sadly, its more about how you present the information.
and do you think thorny really cares if you don't take his advice?
you don't GAIN anything from refusing to change if your feelings are hurt
i think that one of the marks of a successful person is someone who can take emotion and their personal pride out of the equation and use information to their advantage, no matter how it's presented to them
Caitsith.Linear
Serveur: Caitsith
Game: FFXI
By Caitsith.Linear 2010-06-17 15:18:28
Apparently he does care, because he get's really *** pissy when people don't listen to him.
Serveur: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11681
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-06-17 15:18:37
Quoting messed up here too >_>
Quote: While I understand that, called someone an ugly *** is taking it a bit too far. Just give up on them if they wont listen. Being a douche bag isn't going to make them listen. Agreed; this is kind of an ongoing thing so it's not like that came out of nowhere but it's still uncalled for.
Leviathan.Dubont said: Sylph.Kimble said: Generally speaking, people wont be receptive to information when you act like an *** about it.
Im sure once people resort to name calling and personal attacks, they lose a lot of credibility with people. I tend to start ignoring ppl when I get called gimp b/c I won't spend 3mil on an item that will only make my dmg go up by .5 over a certain amount of time...
you have dusk gloves 1? AWESOME! I'll keep my NQ tyvm Even most elitists tend to look down on those people. Gear should make sense, but it doesn't have to be shiny.
Carbuncle.Sevourn said: and do you think thorny really cares if you don't take his advice?
you don't GAIN anything from refusing to change if your feelings are hurt
i think that one of the marks of a successful person is someone who can take emotion and their personal pride out of the equation and use information to their advantage, no matter how it's presented to them QFT yet again, lol
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Sylph.Kimble
Serveur: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2912
By Sylph.Kimble 2010-06-17 15:19:16
Carbuncle.Sevourn said: Sylph.Kimble said: Carbuncle.Sevourn said: Sylph.Kimble said: Generally speaking, people wont be receptive to information when you act like an *** about it.
Im sure once people resort to name calling and personal attacks, they lose a lot of credibility with people.
not following good advice because someone hurt your feelings is cutting off your nose to spite your face
When you are generally nice and respectful to someone, they will take the advance as something constructive.
If you call someone stupid, ***, ugly, ***, etc while offering advice, you really think that person is trying to help you at all?
Sadly, its more about how you present the information.
and do you think thorny really cares if you don't take his advice?
you don't GAIN anything from refusing to change if your feelings are hurt
i think that one of the marks of a successful person is someone who can take emotion and their personal pride out of the equation and use information to their advantage, no matter how it's presented to them
Well, to me if he didn't care, he wouldnt keep replying and going on about if. If you don't really care, you would just ignore it and give up.
As for being a successful person. Still doesn't give someone a right to use insults to get their point across as it does nothing for that.
Carbuncle.Sevourn
Serveur: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9481
By Carbuncle.Sevourn 2010-06-17 15:21:28
Caitsith.Linear said: Apparently he does care, because he get's really *** pissy when people don't listen to him.
i think thorny is fairly abrasive no matter what the situation
hence the name :p
Sylph.Kimble
Serveur: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2912
By Sylph.Kimble 2010-06-17 15:23:18
I dunno, seems to be you guys are saying, if you are smart/right, it makes it ok to act like an *** about it.
Personally, I don't agree with that.
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 Leviathan.Dubont
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1686
By Leviathan.Dubont 2010-06-17 15:24:15
Carbuncle.Sevourn said: Caitsith.Linear said: Apparently he does care, because he get's really *** pissy when people don't listen to him.
i think thorny is fairly abrasive no matter what the situation
hence the name :p Your claims are not far from the truth....
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Carbuncle.Sevourn
Serveur: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9481
By Carbuncle.Sevourn 2010-06-17 15:27:39
Sylph.Kimble said: Well, to me if he didn't care, he wouldnt keep replying and going on about if. If you don't really care, you would just ignore it and give up.
As for being a successful person. Still doesn't give someone a right to use insults to get their point across as it does nothing for that.
i think it depends on your definition of "care"
there are definitely some people who relish using math/facts/supporting data to argue people they see as intellectually inferior(correctly or not) into a corner
the moment when the only thing their "opponent" has left to offer is WELL YOU'RE MEAN is the moment of triumph for them, and by doing it, you play right into your hands and make their day, quite the opposite of hurting their feelings
want to see them speechless/defuse the situation? try thanking them politely for their advice and promising to do your best to implement it
Leviathan.Dubont
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1686
By Leviathan.Dubont 2010-06-17 15:28:50
Carbuncle.Sevourn said: Sylph.Kimble said: Well, to me if he didn't care, he wouldnt keep replying and going on about if. If you don't really care, you would just ignore it and give up.
As for being a successful person. Still doesn't give someone a right to use insults to get their point across as it does nothing for that.
i think it depends on your definition of "care"
there are definitely some people who relish using math/facts/supporting data to argue people they see as intellectually inferior(correctly or not) into a corner
the moment when the only thing their "opponent" has left to offer is WELL YOU'RE MEAN is the moment of triumph for them, and by doing it, you play right into your hands and make their day, quite the opposite of hurting their feelings
want to see them speechless/defuse the situation? try thanking them politely for their advice and promising to do your best to implement it no u
Carbuncle.Sevourn
Serveur: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9481
By Carbuncle.Sevourn 2010-06-17 15:29:27
Sylph.Kimble said: I dunno, seems to be you guys are saying, if you are smart/right, it makes it ok to act like an *** about it.
Personally, I don't agree with that.
no, i'm not saying it's ok. i'm saying you're not going to change him and the best way you can deal with advice given in that manner is to roll with it instead of dwelling on hurt feelings
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-06-17 15:36:33
Being right and being an ***, is better than spreading misinformation and being an *** when proven wrong.
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Serveur: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 14155
By Valefor.Slipispsycho 2010-06-17 15:36:57
I'd like to give a giant *** you *** to all those who said loldnc.. Not so lol anymore..
Sylph.Kozuki
Serveur: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 223
By Sylph.Kozuki 2010-06-17 15:46:15
No, they act like an *** to make it LOOK like they're right, to cover up all their misinfomration. They're not actually right, they just say "MY MATH SAYS THIS!" but when you actually play the game, the math doesn't happen.
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By Zekko 2010-06-17 15:48:20
Leviathan.Thornyy said: I am an elitist BG homo who has nothing important to contribute to the subject of this thread.
Don't see how, BG is just 3 posters posting the same ***over and over for post count. And your gear is pretty average nothing special so i hardly see you as elitest, more like a poser amirite?
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Sylph.Kozuki
Serveur: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 223
By Sylph.Kozuki 2010-06-17 15:48:26
Carbuncle.Sevourn said: Sylph.Kimble said: Well, to me if he didn't care, he wouldnt keep replying and going on about if. If you don't really care, you would just ignore it and give up.
As for being a successful person. Still doesn't give someone a right to use insults to get their point across as it does nothing for that.
i think it depends on your definition of "care"
there are definitely some people who relish using math/facts/supporting data to argue people they see as intellectually inferior(correctly or not) into a corner
the moment when the only thing their "opponent" has left to offer is WELL YOU'RE MEAN is the moment of triumph for them, and by doing it, you play right into your hands and make their day, quite the opposite of hurting their feelings
want to see them speechless/defuse the situation? try thanking them politely for their advice and promising to do your best to implement it
Why would anyone thank someone for wrong advice?
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Carbuncle.Sevourn
Serveur: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9481
By Carbuncle.Sevourn 2010-06-17 15:50:56
i'm pretty sure the results thorny has gotten in this game speak for themselves
not saying he's a nice guy(not saying i am either), but he's certainly been successful
Leviathan.Dubont
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1686
By Leviathan.Dubont 2010-06-17 15:51:28
Zekko said: Leviathan.Thornyy said: I am an elitist BG homo who has nothing important to contribute to the subject of this thread.
Don't see how, BG is just 3 posters posting the same ***over and over for post count. And your gear is pretty average nothing special so i hardly see you as elitest, more like a poser amirite?but still a homo
Leviathan.Thornyy
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 145
By Leviathan.Thornyy 2010-06-17 15:51:31
See Kimble, the trick is to tell your GF when she's doing something wrong. That way she learns and she won't stay the average player stuck in her ways forever. If you just defend her constantly, you're hurting her in the long run because she makes herself out to be a tool in front of other people. I realize people on ffxiah aren't as friendly toward math as those on BG, but in all honesty, parses and anecdotal evidence are a terrible way to make any point. There are too many factors involved to assume from there; engage speed, tp from getting hit, afks, streaks of misses or low pdif.. the best you can do is to do the math and work from there. Any bad or good luck or bad or good play will be reflected in actual results, but there are very few cases where the benefits from this are not linear.. so the math stays correct.
Quote: Don't see how, BG is just 3 posters posting the same ***over and over for post count. And your gear is pretty average nothing special so i hardly see you as elitest, more like a poser amirite? 68/75 salvage pieces, 120m of gear, 15 75s on a year old character isn't bad in my opinion. No, I don't have the world's best char.. I don't even have a relic. ***'s barely a year old.
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Leviathan.Dubont
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1686
By Leviathan.Dubont 2010-06-17 15:52:08
Carbuncle.Sevourn said: i'm pretty sure the results thorny has gotten in this game speak for themselves
not saying he's a nice guy, but he's certainly been successful at others' expense but a true statement none the less
Serveur: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11681
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-06-17 15:55:17
Sylph.Kozuki said: Why would anyone thank someone for wrong advice? Why would anyone take you seriously when you can't contribute a single shred of support for your position?
Thorny's information was reasonable and even situationally supported your position. You are way past the point where the only prudent options are contributing hard numbers or finding a different thread to post in.
Not trying to be a douche, just how it is. ***'s gone on too long and you're only perpetuating that with your vague assertions.
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Sylph.Kozuki
Serveur: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 223
By Sylph.Kozuki 2010-06-17 15:58:33
I have seen WHM's solo mainheal hassoing DD's. I have seem RDM mainheal hassoing DD's solo. I have seen hasso not be viable because you're not exping on colibri, and fighting other mobs like mamools. I've had to mainheal with a terrible healer, I've been able to fulltime DD with a good one, but bad dd's so slower kills, easier on healer. He can say a RDM can't keep up with fulltime hasso DD's, but I've seen it, how does math reflect that? Why is his math saying he's using regen?
Even in situations, DD's don't really "fulltime hasso", they can still seigan thirdeye to save themselves/save mp when healer is low. It's about working as a team and STILl getting insane exp/hour.
Sometimes you can't dia2 every mob, stuff happens, sometimes you /heal a bit, sometimes you don't do this, sometimes you don't do that. You do things, to allow you to keep MP up at all times. You don't just sit there and idle and rely on refresh/convert..
If his math is so right, why do I see the exact opposite happen in game?
There's no math, there's facts. Bad healer = can't fulltime hasso/I have to heal.
Good healer = I can saber dance and only take it off to emergencies heal/let healer get some mp, dd's can fulltime hasso.
This is also assuming ALL DD's are good, how often does that happen? How often does perfect settings, camp not being taken, both camps open, etc happen?
Sylph.Kimble
Serveur: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2912
By Sylph.Kimble 2010-06-17 15:59:15
Leviathan.Thornyy said: See Kimble, the trick is to tell your GF when she's doing something wrong. That way she learns and she won't stay the average player stuck in her ways forever. If you just defend her constantly, you're hurting her in the long run because she makes herself out to be a tool in front of other people. I realize people on ffxiah aren't as friendly toward math as those on BG, but in all honesty, parses and anecdotal evidence are a terrible way to make any point. There are too many factors involved to assume from there; engage speed, tp from getting hit, afks, streaks of misses or low pdif.. the best you can do is to do the math and work from there. Any bad or good luck or bad or good play will be reflected in actual results, but there are very few cases where the benefits from this are not linear.. so the math stays correct.
Quote: Don't see how, BG is just 3 posters posting the same ***over and over for post count. And your gear is pretty average nothing special so i hardly see you as elitest, more like a poser amirite? 68/75 salvage pieces, 120m of gear, 15 75s on a year old character isn't bad in my opinion. No, I don't have the world's best char.. I don't even have a relic. ***'s barely a year old.
She doesn't play anymore so, idc. How am I supporting her? Seems all I have said is try and see how someone else plays and accept not everyone plays as you do. Also to not resort to pointless name calling as it does nothing to support your arguments.
Also, in the day and age of smn burns, saying how many 75s you have doesnt really say much (Not saying you smn burned most or even all of your 75s, just how it is)
As far as being a bad player, I dunno, while some people don't like the way she acts (Im sure you know how that is) no one has said she is a bad player or an average player.
Then again, a lot of people say things and act different on forums then how they do stuff in game.
Sylph.Kimble
Serveur: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2912
By Sylph.Kimble 2010-06-17 16:00:52
Sylph.Kozuki said: I have seen WHM's solo mainheal hassoing DD's. I have seem RDM mainheal hassoing DD's solo. I have seen hasso not be viable because you're not exping on colibri, and fighting other mobs like mamools. I've had to mainheal with a terrible healer, I've been able to fulltime DD with a good one. He can say a RDM can't keep up with fulltime hasso DD's, but I've seen it, how does math reflect that? Why is his math saying he's using regen?
Sometimes you can't dia2 every mob, stuff happens, sometimes you /heal a bit, sometimes you don't do this, sometimes you don't do that. You do things, to allow you to keep MP up at all times. You don't just sit there and idle and rely on refresh/convert..
If his math is so right, why do I see the exact opposite happen in game?
There's no math, there's facts. Bad healer = can't fulltime hasso/I have to heal.
Good healer = I can fulltime saber dance, dd's can fulltime hasso.
This is also assuming ALL DD's are good, how often does that happen? How often does perfect settings, camp not being taken, both camps open, etc happen?
No matter how good a healer is, I highly doubt you can full time saber dance >_>
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Carbuncle.Sevourn
Serveur: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9481
By Carbuncle.Sevourn 2010-06-17 16:01:45
Sylph.Kozuki said: This is also assuming ALL DD's are good, how often does that happen? How often does perfect settings, camp not being taken, both camps open, etc happen?
while i don't know firsthand, i'd imagine pretty often when you only merit with other ls members and are capable of clearing the area so thoroughly that the other parties give up
Serveur: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 616
By Valefor.Angeluzun 2010-06-17 16:02:37
So let me see if I follow the last 5 pages: Thornyy tells people to focus on healing as dnc.
someone asks him to list his dnc gear to prove the value of his critique, which he does, and causes an argument over daggers
the "everyone plays differently" logic rears its head
Thornyy becomes regarded as an elitist jerk after posting mathematical data to back up his argument
some people see the light!
Thornyy and Nightfyre are still jerks though
So? How'd I do?
Yes, the title remains true if you're male or female. Either way, you're a dancing queen.
This new update will bolster lots of improvements to the already amazing job of Dancer. Though not many people know its strengths, its already rather exceptional in merit parties and in DRK zergs.
Here is a list of the changes for DNC in an easy to read list complete with your loyal FFXIAH Dancer's commentary on the additions:
Presto (DNC Lv.77 Recast: 15 sec ~ Duration: 30 sec.)
Enhances the effect of your next step and grants you an additional finishing move.
This means stronger debuffs, and 3 finishing moves per step. Steps have 15 sec cooldown, so does this JA.
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Divine Waltz II (DNC Lv.78 Ability Delay: 20 sec.)
Restores the HP of all party members within a small radius.
Gogo more potent Curaga dance. Not much more to say.
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Climactic Flourish (DNC Lv.80 Ability Delay: 90 sec.)
Allows you to deal critical hits. Requires at least one finishing move.
If this stacks with WS’s then you can crit on… Dancing Edge. This = absolute WIN.
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Crit. Atk. Bonus: Improves power of critical hits. Dnc level 80
Bad ass job trait… Who doesn’t want stronger crits? This in combo with Climactic Finish will result in basically a potent replacement for Sneak Attack.
Tactical Parry: Grants bonus TP when parrying an attack. DNC 77
Extra TP off those odd parries. Can’t hurt, right?
Skillchain Bonus Improves skillchain damage. DNC 45
Extra damage for skillchains? Also bad ass… Though situational unless you actually solo skillchains on DNC. Typically a waste of finishing moves though.
Conserve TP Occasionally cuts down TP cost of weapon skills. Dnc 77
Once again… Another bad ass addition to the Dancer arsenal. The chance to retain some of your TP upon WS’ing is very cool.
Dancers will be able to perform the ability "Cure Waltz" on non-party members.
Awesome. Sucked being a solo DNC in campaign sometimes when you could only heal yourself. Now you can also help cure alliance members too!
Now… Last but certainly not least… In fact this is easily the best new thing:
The "Dual Wield" job trait will become available to dancers at level 20, with the degree of mastery increasing in stages thereafter.
Yes… yes that’s right… Dnc/War, Dnc/Sam, Dnc/Thf, Dnc/Drk, Dnc/anything you can think of for boosted DD potential with the ability to still dual wield since Dancer will get the trait themselves… absolute madness. Possibilities are endless… Dnc/Whm with aspir samba to get mp for extra cures is always nice. Also Dnc/Drk will have 2 stuns. Violent flourish is a stun with a 20 second cooldown that already exists in-game, btw.
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