Aggro Parry

Having capped parry wont make or break you, but i dont see how not having higher parry, or close to cap can hurt:)As for enmity on PLD, I do idle in some enmity, every hit will generate more enmity from your sword, so unless you sac acc(wich is needed to actually hit obv>_>), then i think its fine to idle in, not only swap in for JA/Spells etcetc. And earth staff on PLD is pretty bad lol. You will take less damage using a sword+shield overall, regardless of sub. If using /NIN sub, a shield is so beneficial to utsu casting on the block side, I would not swap that out, ever, ever, ever. Also; atonement. Stats on the shield should also be considered(hp,enmity,beast killer,lolvit)

I'm guessing you don't have Parrying capped if you really think it's useless.



Shadows absorbing an attack is not evading an attack, it's a shadow absorbing an attack. The evasion check has already been failed, then you have the chance of parrying procing. If parrying procs, you've got yourself a free shadow, because parrying doesn't remove a shadow. It's the same principal as evading an attack with the same outcome in the event of a proc.

And evading all the attacks? What the ***? How often does a PLD really evade on an HNM? Like, never? I've seen several tanks tank HNMs with capped parrying and no additional gear and they parry approximately 20% of attacks. Compare this to the amount of attacks they evade without using no additional evasion gear?

To say parrying is useless is just so ignorant. There is no reason to tell people not to bother levelling it. For tanks, that's just the most ridiculous advice I've ever seen. Please, stop posting in this thread if this is the sort of advice you're giving, because it's completely wrong. I'd hate to think an impressionable tank read this thread and followed your horrible advice.



Really... People don't listen? I think it's more the fact your first few posts were ridiculous nonsense, so now everyone is holding you to that standard. Did you really expect something different when what you're saying is just... Well, ***?

Parrying does not use up a shadow. All the more to the point as to why any tank should cap it. PLD/NIN on Tiamat and with capped parrying you have roughly a 20% chance of parrying, AS WELL AS shadows absorbing attacks. Since you're not going to evade ***, why the hell would anyone in their right mind say Parrying isn't worth it? I just can't figure it out.

wether you think its pointles to lvl or not, its not what was asked to start with, and some of us like to see those pretty skill up messages

personaly i started to see parry being somewhat noticable once it hit about the 200 mark, if u are ever tanking anything then it is deffinatly worth doing in my opinion

if a parry saves a shadow then you just scored urself a free shadow...how is this not useful?

Exactly what I'm hoping Enternius will tell us, as he seems to know so much about it.

As for skill ups, I went to the Boyahda tree on RDM/BLU and let two or three Korrigans spam attacks on me. Took hundreds of attacks, parry'd dozens of times, and got 0.1 for my troubles.

my skill ups i went in as dnc/nin and took on 3 of the white mandys till i was at 210, then i moved on to the korrigan working on them one at a time till i hit 249 where i currently sit, and its taken months to get it this far...its a good day when i see a skill up

i gave up bothering with shadows & just full timed fan dance

(i could probably have taken on more, but i like to watch movies ot TV while i skill parry so i dont go out of my mind after a 16hr parry leveling sesion)

I think I need to invest in some parrying equipment sometime, and perhaps the natural skill cap (A, B, C, etc) affects how quickly you skill up?

i was using 2x parry knife, parry torque, parry earring & boxers mantle (i know it has evasion on it too, but it felt liked it helped)

but aggro'd mobs deffinatly can be parry'ed & can deffinatly get skill ups from, aswell as from mob TP moves as i have whitnessed several times

im only 1 skill point away from cap on dnc, but i lost interest with it & moved onto guard (241 atm)

Oh definitely, the amount of parry's I have got from Pecking Flurries or Goblin Rushes.

I would only use one Parrying Knife as I'd both have to sacrifice /BLU to go /NIN, and also the Physical damage down from Genbu's Shield. I actually own all but the Knife already from my old parrying skill up blitz days.

too bad we cant skill up parry on rng, they get mad parry rates

You know, that's funny. Although I have no proof to support it, I seem to feel like I get a load more parries on Ranger than I do any other job. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks that!

Just thowing in my two cents. I cap ***out because i want my character to be the best it can be in any situation. Parry is definitely handy. Alot of the arguments have been on pld onry. What about fully capped WAR? Or SAM for that matter. The jobs with lower eva rates having parry skilled has saved my neck on an ichi cast more times then i can count. PLD cant hold hate for ***against any real DD unless they are being sata'ed. They definitely need the enmity gear on. The whole staff idea is HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE too for low manning. PLD will have hate all of 2secs until a war slams a mob with a 1k Raging Rush. Also i thought the whole point of PLD was to get hit so that when healing they get hate when voke/flash start to decay. And PLD's go /nin to HNM to stay alive. 5000 evasion skill isnt going to evade a stone V from kirin, and to save myself from ppl saying run away kirin does do sleepga quite a bit sometimes. Everything skilled is handy to have its just if you have the time or gumption to go out and get stuff done.

Is there any math on parrying already?
How much X skill will add to % proc? This would be a nice add to this discussion.

To Enternius
I think you over estimate eva man. The only job that can really make use of it on hnm is thief. Maybe NIN, but the nin would sac march for a second mambo(although i have heard of 2xnin tanking byakko with 2x mambo, so i guess it works).
You made an example against a 340 acc byakko. Let's work with that and see how much hit rate he would actually have against my current eva build on thief.
+69 evasion on gear
+48 evasion bonus
+101 evasion skill over 200 (gonna make this +90 evasion)
+200 evasion from evasion skill
+45 evasion from agi (base + equip)
= 452 evasion

Hit Rate = 75% + (Accuracy - Evasion) x 0.5% + (Attackers Level - Defenders Level) x 2%

LV 90 Byakko's Hit Rate = 75 - 112/2 + 30 = 49%

I dont know how much evasion mambo actually gives. But if its the same as madrigal, as thief, i would never cap eva even with 2x mambo. I need +58 evasion, a madrigal analogy for mambo would give me 34+15.

Still, i felt pretty safe against suzy once. I held him for quite some time with no songs on me and weakened while our tank recovered.

Anyway parrying itself is a nice boost to defences. But a PLD/NIN will rely on shield do cast utsu and a NIN/DRK, as i learned recently, will need -interruption gear.

I didnt read this whole topic, anyone comment on skill up with chigoes? lol I think you can a A skill at 230 with them iirc. Go fight marids, let them pop a bunch of chigoes and kill the main marid. Now just face the chigoes while targeting a different mob. Pretty easy skill up if you got a rdm pal with phalanx2.

Actually you don't need to actually get hit. A pld could have an idle gear with no or little +hp, and swap in +hp to cast cure iv on itself. That's called cure cheat as friend of mine told me lol.

Yeah, that is true. Some PLD's have a HP swap macro to stop them from losing enmity by being hit, and they still have the HP to cure. I do it on NIN/DNC a lot too when I'm trying to keep some form of hate, it's really effective.

Kind of a waste of money, unless your solo tanking..
Usually theres 2 tanks both at hate cap, when one gets terrored, needs recast etc, they take hate for them with a cure/flash/whatever.
Idk could always macro -SI gear but never really occured to me.

yeah, i've seen this in another topic over here not so long ago. Never occurred to me before too. But if you are to maximize you potential imo thats the way to go. Just like a pld swaps in +shield skill (and sure -SI helps too) to cast utsu ichi (or should), a nin can swap -SI and ninjutsu (or should).

The -SI set i've seen was nearly 50%, and that starts to get reliable. More so than eva or parrying.

get a great katana for your nin. from my experience its alot easier to skillup parrying with a 2 hand weapon.

Wow woke up to a barrage of replies back. But basically my question answered, can parry w/o hate. Idk about pld's since mines only 37. But I know for my NIN it's great and to kinda cover all around (Yes I read every reply) Parry is worth it, but no i wouldn't use any parry+ gear other than skilling. Best to have other things in those slots. But if my parry does go up 7.0 than there's a sort of built-in parry torque, etc. Of the times I do get hit I proc parry around 20-30% of the time. So it's a big help. I often will get 5 procs in a row while in +gear. (Base is 231, +gear take me to 271) << realized I didn't put that down before. Some ppl didn't seem to get the chain of walls to dmg so I'll toss that in: Mob attacks you, your defenses are (in order) Evasion > Parry > Shadows > DEF, -DMG taken, Protect, etc. > Stoneskin > Being hit for damage. As for the PLD arguement, if your a PLD and you have time to get some skills, go for it. If you don't... get the skills in the field fighting like you would anyways. stick with your normal PLD gears, like everyone has basically said, and I also believe, parry is a backup skill. But a handy one that can and often does save you. As for the ppl saying don't waste your time skilling it. For me it's not a waste of time, because I have 4 kids and can't HNMLS anymore or at least atm. So skilling parry isn't so bad for me since I can get up and walk away at any point to check on the kids (I NIN/DNC w/samba on, and I have my mule double Paeon me w/Ebony Harpe+1 so it takes minutes and minutes for me to get down to yellow. Also I didn't mention what I put in my slots while skilling. I use parry+ skill where I can, then I try to use -DMG taken. After that I try for haste and w/e else I'd normally use since that helps my hits for samba. Or if I don't feel like samba I use earth staff and just let the Paeons keep me up. Other than that lil test I normally do see good skill results. I try to always have 2 mobs on me for 2x faster skill ups. But don't try this unless you have a friend to help keep you alive or you can do it yourself. Thanks for all the comments guys. EDIT: Oh and that GKT comment just pop'd up after I started typing. From my exp, yes, 2 hand weapons do seem to proc parry more as I said early on about my DRG. I do sometimes use a GKT to skill itself and parry. But for just parry, either Katanas or Earth staff is what I use.

What surprises me is that no one knows this :

http://www.staronion.com/maiev/nfblog/?p=251

http://www.staronion.com/maiev/nfblog/?p=286#comments

I'm not on my computer so I don't have the exact link of the page, but there's a detailed page about parrying on this website.

Listen to veteran's advices, they're usually good.

i dunno, i read through this whole painful topic.

Having capped parry would definately be useful, even on a job like pld that has a low parry skill cap. im at 220 parry currently, i see it proc often as pld with no skill+ gear, and i see it proc even more when soloing as a sam/dnc with minor skill+ gear.

Most people *** about parry being useless because they dont know how to skill it properly.

Nins *** a lot because they are usually so far behind the cap to make it work for them, as you normally exp a lot faster than this skills up and nin tanks arent especially great for ideal mobs to skill this up. multi attack mobs. colibri, mandies, crawlers, etc

Just like skilling up weapons, you need to target areas with mobs at relative level to your skill. you wouldnt exactly head to kufkal when youre only a lvl 30 staff skill would you? Parry+ gear helps a ton, but only if it doesnt impede you're ability to survive... especially solo. (ex. if your skill is around level 200, you would be around level 60 for an A+ skill rating, skill up on lesser colibri or other mobs with multi-hit attacks to speed it up. if you wanna bump it up some go visit some Eruca in aydeewa, they will keep you busy a while.

yes you can in fact parry without hate, but this really would only be useful to abuse if you have a secondary char for healing. I used to do this a lot as sam/dnc, but the amount of tp you get from being hit isnt enough to keep you alive on waltzes alone, so now i just slowly beat on the mob. I will attack 1 mob (usually something lower level) equip a soboro, then turn around and aggro a mob that I need to skill on. I keep myself in between the claimed mob and the mob im skilling up on and i simply turn around and attack when I need TP to waltz. i turn back around with my weapon drawn while facing the mob I need to skill on and parry will eventually start to skill... slowly. I pick a lesser mob to tp on cause they usually wont add much as far as damage I take so I can survive hits on the stronger ones. Zones like Boyohda (sp,) are perfect for this as you dont need to travel far to either find a mob you need to skill up on or a mob you need to build tp on.

Usually the only gear I use with parry skill+ are busho earring, parry earring, parry torque, boxer's mantle, and sam af+1 legs. the further above the cap for that mob you are in relative skill the more it will proc. the more often it procs in that specific level range the more it will skill.

This shouldnt have ever turned into an arguement about how useful it is to a 68 pld with no endgame tanking experience. Parry avoids damage, avoided damage prevents mp use, people survive. PLD parry caps at 230 at lvl 75, your average endgame mob is lvl 85, chances are you wont be parrying OR evading much at all as PLD during those fights, but if you do its still less hp you lose that mages need to use to keep your *** alive.

yea i know this is tl:dr, but those of you who ARE interested in skilling this up may actually read up on it.

as stated before /WAR for dyna /RDM is viable to for some situations.

your actually failing an EVA check when you loose a shaddow if i am correct. you can parry before losing a shadow. bit as for PLD having Parry capped does really help, especially when it can save you from dying. PLD cant evade alot to save them self but they can parry alot than you'd think with capped skill. some times you'd parry more than <mob>'s attack misses <player>