How Could SE Realistically Improve Modern FFXI?

I think the most important change they could make is making XP parties fun again. It used to be the way to meet people. Now it's just something you buy along the way. Exemplar parties needs some kind of extra interactions, such as Ascended style mobs like in Escha, or pop items could drop with TH to give THF something to do. Considering how much time master levels take it would be nice to actually want to interact with getting exemplar points instead of looking at what I got when I wake up.

Just imagine iLevel Limbus, all the different subzones to collect the pop items for the Neo-Ultima and Neo-Omega...

FF7R felt like it was a gay love story between Sephiroth and Cloud. A very complicated one.

Limbus was my all time greatest event they've ever made. Nothing has come close to as fun. The zones were so well designed for the era and the rewards felt reasonable. It was one of the more faster paced events that didn't take up tons of your time but the entire linkshell generally enjoyed. I seriously don't know why they replaced Limbus with Omen for AF upgrades. And I like Omen, but limbus was more engaging imo.

From a design and objective perspective, Omen is literally Limbus part 3. The difference is instead of collecting parts from each zone to pop the mega, you collected beads from each boss to pop Ou. But the objectives and time extension mechanics are practically the identical with a few additions to Omen

dunno if it was already said but, remove the 6mo timer just to unlock ergon weapon quest.

Ehh Omen is not Limbus, at best it was "inspired by limbus", like those movies that are "inspired by a true story". It is kinda sorta similar, if you look at it sideways after downing six tequila shots.

Nowhere in limbus were there random objectives you had to complete in 180s. Limbus allowed for an alliance, though elite groups cleared it with six people. Limbus was crazy big and much of the strategy was with chosing when to take treasure and when to take time chests. You wanted the most +1 items along with currency possible. You were not limited to the +1 upgrade material of the job you were on. Finally Limbus was way bigger then Omen.

Hardest part of an iLevel limbus would be the rewards, the maps / monsters are copy paste with new scaled stats. They would have to create a new armor set for Ultima/Omega along with some accessories, maybe a JSE ring or belt and do the whole R15 thing with the currency that drops. Most importantly, no more freaking six man limit.

We already have ultima and omega at the same time. That content has reached its peak. We need another nyzul isle item level with the highest token payout. That would help in that chore for a mythic... and maybe let it be used to enhance ambu gear with some silly minor Stat boosts to obscure abilities or spells.

Funny thing the drama with primes were kinda similar to the ergon drama at the beginning, just a bit alleviated because there were a handful of people who kept up with coalition before ergon requirements announcement.

And nowaday, basically none talks about this time constraint, despite being the very same of the primes.

So the lesson is that in a long run, you will come to accept the time it takes to make a prime (and love it)

Though, my own opinion is that all achievement in game should be gauged by the average high casual player, and not the hardcore without-life one.

Again, I stand that achievements shouldnt take longer than a month to get it

Limbus was far too easy, the monsters were not meaningfully stronger than merit monsters and many zones could be cleared with only a dozen or so of them being killed. Sure, a bad group could take a full party(or even more) into a non-boss zone. But, you could also split a party of 6 into two soloers and two duos and clear all 4 apollyons at once then combine the chips at the end. Most temenos were not difficult to clear with 3. I did Omega with 4 in toau era, and it wasn't particularly hard. Ultima was the only thing that really needed a full party, yet they allowed an alliance.

The reward rate was reasonable for the era if you brought your entire group into one zone, but it was insanely high if you optimized. Only having one instance of each zone was a horrible idea, when so many are soloable (either for coins or chips), so I don't think this was by design. I think they failed to balance the content for player strength.

I suspect the reason limbus is so fondly remembered is precisely because it was very easy and highly rewarding. Homam and Nashira legs were amazing upgrades for the jobs they applied to and everyone who played those jobs looked forward to their chance every few days. Bad groups didn't fail zones, because they didn't even consider splitting. Good groups were getting Omega every 6 days(or even every 3 if large enough) and collecting an insane amount of loot for the time period. Solo/duoers could still get gear through ancient beastcoins, even if they lacked the ability or connections to fight bosses.

It fit into the game balance, too. Most AF+1 barely increased anything. Some of the ABC items were BiS for things, but they didn't add enough player strength to be overpowering. Homam was particularly desirable, but it was mitigated by being for only 5 jobs(none of which were already best DPS option prior to it's introduction).

I don't know that something along those lines would still be well-received today. I think players would be quick to jump at the fact the best gear wasn't for their preferred job. They would consider AF+1 equivalent to not be worth it. I suspect many would get the accessories and call it a day. The level of rewards we've come to expect is far higher than what 75-era players expected.

I do think the gameplay and 3 day lockout would work well. But, I don't think SE would put amazing gear behind such casual content if they were to make it[nor do I think they should]. I suspect they probably wouldn't want to make casual content in general, because casual players already have enough to do working their way up. Something like Limbus would not last at all for the endgame crowd, even though they'd also enjoy it. I can't see them greenlighting something people can cap on in a couple months, and I think they have daily active users in mind so longer lockouts are probably out too.

Color Blind people everywhere, confusing pink to purple lol.

When I look back I always thought Brutal was so OP for its time. To be fitting with the ***stats back then it should have been 2% or 3% DA.

Difference between Ergon and Primes, once you are past the 6 month Ergon wait, you are done, you don't have to do it again. And you get more then just a single weapon. You get currency, Accessories, a trust, basically 2 weapons really.

Each prime will effectively have a 6 month wait. its Mythic weapons all over again, Do all 50 assaults again, "because"
There's 16 prime weapons, so at Minimum, it would take 8 years to complete them all.

With a new game that has a long future ahead of it, its daunting of course, but as an ultimate weapon, its ok. For a 22 year old game, to add 8 more years of lets be realistic, pure grind, its just silly.

Now at this stage, yes its optional. You don't need to do that content. That's the only reason its not a more immediate problem.

However, like everything else in this game, its community driven, so when players aren't allowed into content if they don't have a prime.. That's of course if we actually get any content where a prime would even be required so somewhat moot I guess.

This gets brought up all the time but like...who TF needs all 16 prime weapons? Even if they were being handed out for free, I wouldn't take 16 weapons on either of my characters. I don't play all 22 jobs and quite frankly I think very few if ANY players legitimately play all 22 jobs with any kind of frequency, it's just not practical. Let alone playing all jobs to a level where you NEED to have the prime weapon for each of them...saying "prime weapons take 8 years to complete" is the dumbest of hot takes.


So...the proposed solution is they should've made prime weapons a 6 month grind? Once again...if this were the case the vast majority of players who were already at endgame when primes dropped would all be gone right now.

Question for the people who think the grind is too long for a prime weapon: what would you make it, per weapon? I think most of these answers, if implemented when primes first came out, would cause many players to quit by now and if not, would be quitting soon.

I'd say for Male I'd make at most 7 prime weapons, for Meki probably 6, though I guess 7 could be argued. If they were 2 months each, I'd be gone by now. 3 months each, gone later this year and that's all assuming that I actually cared enough to get a second prime for some jobs and including getting the same prime on multiple characters...

I know a number of people who quit the moment they saw the requirements, something I mentioned before. So it's damned if you do damned if you don't.

If you like Sortie, I can see why this is a non-issue. If Sortie was as engaging as Odyssey is to me then I'd probably not think that much of it, but if you find Sortie a drag, were already burned out farming it due to the dumb cap and limits early on, then you'd probably have quit last summer. The rollout really didn't help the situation.

There is no good answer, it's just what appeals to the larger number of people. Maybe it's just my circle but everyone I know that quit in the last year did so because they were burned out on Sortie and the idea of doing it for 6 months just wasn't appealing, nor was trying to balance getting Empyrean upgrades with getting a lower stage weapon. The reverse is equally true, but it's worth keeping in mind the current solution caused an exodus all the same.

Sortie itself can be fun, sortie Every Single Day is incredibly annoying for the majority of the gaming population. Of course there will be a few who find enjoyment in pushing nails through their finger nails, and those folks will insist the rewards should take a very long time and be restricted only to those who also enjoy razor blades and cigarette burns.

Yes, that's fair and accurate. When we change up or try new strategies, it's enjoyable even when we fail. It's the monotony of doing it every day and shooting for efficiency that makes it easy to burn out especially considering each run feels like a drop in the bucket.

and before someone says it, yes I know you can settle for a stage 4 and do it at a slower pace, it still feels like a slow, monotonous grind that is takes too long even aiming for that.

See, this logic still makes no sense. If you are bored with the game, and Sortie is all you have left to do.. why does it matter if you get a prime or not? If the grind is reduced to 3 months, you're still doing 3 months of an event you hate for a weapon you won't use. The same people aren't going to be less bored because they pick up a prime a little sooner. They might be more willing to finish one and pay another sub fee or 2, but they're still on the way out.

You even said it yourself. Halving the grind doesn't help? So, how short does it need to be that it'd help? The issue doesn't seem to be the length of the grind at all, it seems to be how poorly received Sortie is as an event.

You could make an argument that people deserve finality if they want to end the game on their own terms having all their weapons or whatever, but it doesn't mean anything for SE's bottom line or the game's future. It's an emotional argument that can't be supported anywhere.

It all makes sense. Sortie means Exit.
Sortie caused a pile of people to leave.

SE made their Sortie bed and now we have to sleep in it.

The time to complain about the grind is long gone.

They should have talked to the community and conducted a census regarding what players wanted.

Instead, they did the laziest ***in video game history, on its 20th anniversary. Put a hat on an event that blue-balled us a year with a cap on points and attempt to squeeze out 8 more years of life from it.

Male, did you read the rest of my comment, or just take the single sentences out of context. The current time it takes to make a prime IS 6 months, limited by Psychs.

Now no, i don't think it would make sense to be able to get as many primes as you want after a total of 6 months like they did with Ergons. But some middle ground.

You are correct, most people will not make them all. Most people won't even make 1. However, there are plenty of collectors, does anyone Really need every great axe in the game? No, but i know someone who made it their passion to collect all great axes. How many people have all Relics, Mythics, Aeonics etc.

But what im saying is that added this in to put another 8 years of content into the game. Which is stupid.

Had sortie been 60 hour lockout, like Dyna, with double to triple the points per run, it would have been way better. Its the excessive, repeated, monotonous running around daily grind that's old.

That's also why I had an earlier suggestion to make the option to section it like the Vagary Bosses, where you go in with less time but can only do 1 top and 1 bottom boss, A and E, B and F etc. This would create some variety between runs, similar to how Dyna D is now. You run the same basic path, but 4 different areas to cycle through.

Grind is always going to happen in any RPG, but splitting that up, giving other options, giving things along the way to it doesn't feel like you are running a marathon. Unless their intent was for majority of people to burn out and give up on the event. And then if that's the case, this was a Huge success.

It's something to do. Why do Odyssey if there is nothing after it? If you like the game mechanics, jobs, world, and have friends in game then having something to do you enjoy is worthwhile, but you aren't wrong in saying:


Unless you really like doing Sortie or just really want a Prime, it wears on you very quickly. If you like it, that's great, but a lot of people don't. The weapons could've given people things to play and experiment with, but they just don't wanna do 1hr content they aren't excited about for months or weeks on end. A lot of people also haven't finished v25 or even v20, so there are still carrots out there for some, but yea to the player who has done all of that, there isn't much left.

Shortening it softens the blow a bit but it also opens opportunities for new strategies and comps in Sortie (e.g. DNC being able to make meaningful Light SCs) and other content. It kinda feels like they made making Sortie more interesting via these things is locked behind doing so much Sortie it's just not worth it.

My point was that either way, people quit. They quit because they finish the content too quickly with nothing left to do except lower level content or they quit because they saw the requirements/reward combined with the amount of time spent in Sortie and just decided it wasn't worth the effort. Maletaru and others fall into the latter camp, but there are players in the former camp as well who would've stuck around longer given the opportunity to earn things to do within a reasonable amount of time.

Sortie is boring and monotonous, that’s clear. It’s also not challenging, my friends and I have no prime and we 8/8 3/? (Not consistent but still), like one of them said just plow through, see what stick and within a few trials you go thru. We play twice a week as our group, most re sub last month and they not sure for how long. tell you a lot about that content.

2 don’t want any weapon but might have some because why not, they rather +3 all gear for moogle storage… go figure that’s more interesting for them than the weapon….

Those prime weapons with that PDL matter where it doesn’t, and do t matter where it does… -also 1 of my friend

As funny as it is, I do not mind sortie just for the chance of those earrings, but yeah screw the weapon.

What can SE do to make it more palatable, not sure but running 30 minutes in hallways isn’t the answer either. Take a peak UNM/aeonic/ody, you go, can fight right away, fights are different and challenging (maybe not all anymore thanks to power creep) and you go home, take a break, attend the kid/wife/dog, it isn’t a 1+hour of undivided attention, daily for 6 months.

1 more thing, please SE, R15-25 those AF/relic/unm, something with more cross contents interaction, even if it’s just beehive….

So, a couple things here. Regardless of whether a person needs all 16 primes or not, his point was valid that it's an 8 year time-gate to get them all. No other class of end game weapons has that long of a requirement. It makes one wonder why they put that hefty of a time requirement on making them, does it not?

A person doesn't need to have all top notch gear to want a prime weapon. Sure, they are less likely to get parties on a sub par geared job to sortie, but that's still not for you to judge.




Now, back to the topic, things they could do to improve the game

I saw some mention of more interactive exemplar point farming, I feel like that would actually infuriate people more, especially considering comments relating to people waking up to see their progress. Perhaps expanding on the party options available. through the game's history, we has normal run of the mill parties with a bunch of dd's wailing on a mob till it died, then magic bursting came into the forefront as a more efficient way to exp. this was later replaced by mana burn parties and tp burn parties in the TAU days. For the most part, we're just restricted to TP burn parties anymore. It's quite exhausting to get exp on the caster jobs unless you're main healing. So, in that spirit, maybe introducing mobs that have high physical resistance, but weaker magically, specifically to magic, not magical WS. Giving alternative options to the peaches BC could also be a viable way to let other jobs get EP that don't as easily fit into a traditional party comp. EP has also been out long enough at this point where some kind of EP boost ring should exist, as well as some ROE's.

Something else they could do that I've long been calling for, allowing players to fully max out all merit options in the job sections. There's little reason at this point that a player should need to swap out merits for a specific fight.

Possibly tying a concept like that to master levels, where each level grants you an additional merit point to spend on the tier 1/2 job merits, that would allow a player to max out another 3 things in tier 1, or 2 in tier 2 with some points to spare, not game breaking, but just something to help out the player.

I recognize neither of those ideas would make the game more fun, they are more quality of life adjustments. I also feel they need to adjust the stats on master levels so that mage jobs get more MP, maybe 4 hp, 5 mp, and melee jobs still get the 2 listed that they don't actually get.

I think this is yet another bad faith argument, because the WS is accessible in Sortie at stage 3. You get a stage 3 in like 25 runs without aminon, 13 with. It's not some immense grind.

I'm still not buying it. If you don't like Sortie, then spamming Sortie to earn gear to spam more Sortie isn't going to be a fulfilling gameplay loop. You might entice this crowd to stay an extra month or two, but you're not going to fix the core problem: They don't enjoy Sortie and it's the last long term content once you cap lower content.

This is why I think it's problematic to make it leechable, you're rushing any returning or new players to the same situation these people are in. Reactivate, have all your friends tell you to leech emp+3, be stuck with nothing but Sortie to do until you quit.

The gameplay loop is just plain better when it includes going through older content. There's more variety. You get frequent upgrades. You try a whole lot of different things, learn a whole lot of different mechanics. Making it easy to skip to emp+3 just undermines that whole flow.

Nobody needs Vanabout or Master Trial items either... So, maybe SE should delete sortie?

“Limbus was great and beloved by all because it was an event where you could bring 18 but could be done with 2 or 3 people”

They keep sayin the quiet parts out loud

Imagine killing a super strong mob with you buddies and getting 30k exemp for it? If you can chain-5 you get something like 40-50k.

What we got instead was a SQL query update on mob tables, and now they expect (not really) us to spend over 200 hours getting a job to ML 50? They shouldn't do this even to the most hardcore players.

Thats what i want them to do but on a new zone in a new expansion just *** imagine!!!!

In Asura we grind it so we can stand proudly on Baker Hills.

... You wouldn't understand.