Stage 4 Prime Weapon's Effect On Sortie

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Stage 4 Prime Weapon's effect on Sortie
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 Carbuncle.Maletaru
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By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2023-08-07 08:45:15
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Or, if your group is already smashing 8/8 with time to spare, you could bring a THF in place of one of your DDs, even if it is a DPS loss, to increase drop rates of items. 1~5k muffins is less valuable in most people's eyes compared to more +1 cases, if TH is a real factor.
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 Asura.Auxtaru
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By Asura.Auxtaru 2023-08-07 09:43:03
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SimonSes said: »
I doubt anyone arguing against applying highest available TH. People only arguing, that feelings are not facts.

If we know for sure TH helps, then THF could be a solid alternative as DD and that's the biggest difference between feeling it and knowing it.

"I'm gonna listen and apply TH as you are suggesting, but I want you to know what you are stating is a feeling and not a fact"

You must be fun at parties. That said weren't you the guy who was trying to tell Mischief how they should have handled v25s after they shared their clear strat despite not having even attempted the fight on v25?
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 Phoenix.Iocus
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By Phoenix.Iocus 2023-08-07 09:54:47
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Asura.Auxtaru said: »
SimonSes said: »
I doubt anyone arguing against applying highest available TH. People only arguing, that feelings are not facts.

If we know for sure TH helps, then THF could be a solid alternative as DD and that's the biggest difference between feeling it and knowing it.

"I'm gonna listen and apply TH as you are suggesting, but I want you to know what you are stating is a feeling and not a fact"

You must be fun at parties. That said weren't you the guy who was trying to tell Mischief how they should have handled v25s after they shared their clear strat despite not having even attempted the fight on v25?

boo! personal attack for no reason

We're old people playing an old game. No one here cares about how fun you are at parties. They only care if you're actually good at playing and/or if you can post in a way that could be helpful to others...or Trolling...good Trolling.
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 Carbuncle.Maletaru
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By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2023-08-07 09:57:04
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Asura.Auxtaru said: »
"I'm gonna listen and apply TH as you are suggesting, but I want you to know what you are stating is a feeling and not a fact"

If I said that you get better drops from the boss by killing it from the South, someone could be tempted to do that, despite the fact that it's probably total nonsense, because it doesn't cost them anything. They could, at the same time, say that it was not fact-based analysis and just complete guesswork on my part.

Asura.Auxtaru said: »
That said weren't you the guy who was trying to tell Mischief how they should have handled v25s after they shared their clear strat despite not having even attempted the fight on v25?

I don't remember the details of this conversation, but let's be honest here, you don't need to enter a fight to offer advice on how to complete it. If someone said they were using Boost-AGI on the Kalunga fight, you could easily suggest they switch to Boost-STR without having personal experience with the fight.

I don't understand why people get their panties in a bunch about people offering advice or suggestions; you can just ignore the advice or suggestion if you want, you don't need to hold a months-long grudge and bring it back up about some unrelated subject.
 Cerberus.Shadowmeld
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By Cerberus.Shadowmeld 2023-08-07 10:02:55
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Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »
Asura.Auxtaru said: »
"I'm gonna listen and apply TH as you are suggesting, but I want you to know what you are stating is a feeling and not a fact"

If I said that you get better drops from the boss by killing it from the South, someone could be tempted to do that, despite the fact that it's probably total nonsense, because it doesn't cost them anything. They could, at the same time, say that it was not fact-based analysis and just complete guesswork on my part.

Asura.Auxtaru said: »
That said weren't you the guy who was trying to tell Mischief how they should have handled v25s after they shared their clear strat despite not having even attempted the fight on v25?

I don't remember the details of this conversation, but let's be honest here, you don't need to enter a fight to offer advice on how to complete it. If someone said they were using Boost-AGI on the Kalunga fight, you could easily suggest they switch to Boost-STR without having personal experience with the fight.

I don't understand why people get their panties in a bunch about people offering advice or suggestions; you can just ignore the advice or suggestion if you want, you don't need to hold a months-long grudge and bring it back up about some unrelated subject.

He was definitely quoting someone else and not you.
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 Carbuncle.Maletaru
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By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2023-08-07 10:12:48
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Cerberus.Shadowmeld said: »
He was definitely quoting someone else and not you.

I understand and recognized that, points all still apply equally.
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By Godfry 2023-08-07 11:35:45
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Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »
Asura.Auxtaru said: »
"I'm gonna listen and apply TH as you are suggesting, but I want you to know what you are stating is a feeling and not a fact"

If I said that you get better drops from the boss by killing it from the South, someone could be tempted to do that, despite the fact that it's probably total nonsense, because it doesn't cost them anything. They could, at the same time, say that it was not fact-based analysis and just complete guesswork on my part.

Asura.Auxtaru said: »
That said weren't you the guy who was trying to tell Mischief how they should have handled v25s after they shared their clear strat despite not having even attempted the fight on v25?

I don't remember the details of this conversation, but let's be honest here, you don't need to enter a fight to offer advice on how to complete it. If someone said they were using Boost-AGI on the Kalunga fight, you could easily suggest they switch to Boost-STR without having personal experience with the fight.

I don't understand why people get their panties in a bunch about people offering advice or suggestions; you can just ignore the advice or suggestion if you want, you don't need to hold a months-long grudge and bring it back up about some unrelated subject.


This is the battlecry of the Medalless Armchair General.

If you have ever been at the forefront of a new content, like Mschief's group, you would have realized the difference between priority and optimization.

When V25 came and we had little information about the fights, the groups that were ahead were mostly focussed on survivability, then damage. Once they beat the boss, they shared what worked for them. Mschief would even say "there's lots of room for improvement, but this is what worked for us".

In situations like this, you can congratulate the group that beat it first and thank them for sharing their strat, or you could make it about yourself and cherry-pick details that, in your head, would have made the fight easier. Your self-centered pea-size brain failed to realize that, if they have been beating everything before everyone, it's because they know what you know, they just didn't prioritize it.
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 Bahamut.Celebrindal
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By Bahamut.Celebrindal 2023-08-07 11:58:17
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So glad they're still some sanity in this world. Thank you for pointing out that the majority of critique come from people not even doing this content, but hey- they saw a video on YouTube.
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 Carbuncle.Maletaru
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By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2023-08-07 12:19:29
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I mean, I guess it depends WHO you're talking about when you say "majority of the critique comes from people not even doing this content" because this conversation first started by criticizing Simon, who is a terrible example of your point.

Assume this is the conversation in question

Please explain how speaking from personal experience with the V20 fight is totally irrelevant to discussing a V25 fight of the same NM. Is this just watching a YouTube video and then making wild guesses based on absolutely nothing?

IDK, maybe this happened multiple times, but once again I fail to see how someone speaking from their experience and offering suggestions (to this party, or to future parties attempting the fight) is a bad thing, or how it even remotely resembles what you're implying in your posts. People with V20 clears are medalless armchair generals, because their group hasn't cleared V25 yet. They've never even entered Odyssey before, what do they know?!
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By Godfry 2023-08-07 12:57:05
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Medals are awarded to distinguished services (Mschief's group sharing a viable strategy that we all benefit from), not for pissing on the grave of dead Kalungas...
 
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 Bahamut.Celebrindal
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By Bahamut.Celebrindal 2023-08-07 13:05:23
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Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »
I mean, I guess it depends WHO you're talking about when you say "majority of the critique comes from people not even doing this content" because this conversation first started by criticizing Simon, who is a terrible example of your point.

Assume this is the conversation in question

Please explain how speaking from personal experience with the V20 fight is totally irrelevant to discussing a V25 fight of the same NM. Is this just watching a YouTube video and then making wild guesses based on absolutely nothing?

IDK, maybe this happened multiple times, but once again I fail to see how someone speaking from their experience and offering suggestions (to this party, or to future parties attempting the fight) is a bad thing, or how it even remotely resembles what you're implying in your posts. People with V20 clears are medalless armchair generals, because their group hasn't cleared V25 yet. They've never even entered Odyssey before, what do they know?!


Dude- I have no clue who you are, where you play (if you still do), the jobs you have experience on, or if you prefer sweet potato fries over regular...and honestly I really don't care. I was responding to a post that was positive towards those who have done the work, only to take critiques the moment anything is said publicly (no wonder they don't want to yet! Its just an invitation for insult these days).

Me and Simon are cool- bad choice in trying to turn a conversation into "its all about MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!" instead of just a recognition of those who are still fighting the good fight.
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 Carbuncle.Nynja
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By Carbuncle.Nynja 2023-08-07 13:20:36
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Jfc all this because "I need to know if TH4 tagging a sortie boss will actually do anything" lol
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 Cerberus.Shadowmeld
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By Cerberus.Shadowmeld 2023-08-07 13:23:19
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Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
Jfc all this because "I need to know if TH4 tagging a sortie boss will actually do anything" lol

Moot point, everyone knows that I'm getting my 32345th THF +1 earring in a row with minimum augments from my next +1 case.. :D
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 Carbuncle.Maletaru
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By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2023-08-07 13:27:50
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Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
Jfc all this because some *** brought up unrelated, ad hominem attacks about someone in a thread about TH4 on Sortie bosses lol

FTFY
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By Godfry 2023-08-07 13:30:19
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kuroki said: »
its all in the presentation. people who aren't doing can certainly offer possible solutions, but its easy to sound pretentious doing so if you aren't careful.

100% agree. And this is the good side of ffxi ah. A whole lot of information were shared by the community when people were still trying to beat V25s for the first time. It was super helpful! Toralin and Rua adjusted some of what Mschief did and shared it, also.

All I had to say at the time was to congratulate them, even though I would have done (and did some) it differently.

Now, there is big difference between how Saevel suggested TH might affect meso-drops, which was useful and people criticizing a successful strategy before even having access to the content.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2023-08-07 14:14:08
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Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
Jfc all this because "I need to know if TH4 tagging a sortie boss will actually do anything" lol

Only if you can prove it does to five sigma, then get that paper peer reviewed and published in a respected gaming journal.
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By Serjero 2023-08-07 15:18:04
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Asura.Saevel said: »
Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
Jfc all this because "I need to know if TH4 tagging a sortie boss will actually do anything" lol

Only if you can prove it does to five sigma, then get that paper peer reviewed and published in a respected gaming journal.


Best I can do is 5 runs total where I might or might not have remembered to actually tag TH and have it published by Kotaku.
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By Dodik 2023-08-07 16:15:19
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So what I'm hearing is TH4+ on Odyssey bosses. Good to know.
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 Carbuncle.Nynja
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By Carbuncle.Nynja 2023-08-07 17:25:45
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I mean, they do have a 0.1% chance to drop Cats Eye
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By Lili 2023-08-09 17:23:14
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Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »
I don't remember the details of this conversation, but let's be honest here, you don't need to enter a fight to offer advice on how to complete it. If someone said they were using Boost-AGI on the Kalunga fight, you could easily suggest they switch to Boost-STR without having personal experience with the fight.

And maybe it is in fact Boost-AGI that they wanted because those last couple points of Evasion from AGI is what matters.

Should never assume that you can logic your way through something you do not know.
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By Lili 2023-08-09 17:25:15
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SimonSes said: »
You would need 5500 damage per tic to do like 5M in 45min :)

Right.

New guess:
RDM RDM RDM RDM GEO RUN
Gravity, precision+torpor, distract+frazzle, then kite and 1dmg dagger enspell it to death.

Wud b laff.
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 Shiva.Alistrianna
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By Shiva.Alistrianna 2023-08-09 17:50:58
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My guess its thenoriginal strat, now with even moar AbsorpTP to counter the regain
 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2023-08-09 17:52:44
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Lili said: »
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »
I don't remember the details of this conversation, but let's be honest here, you don't need to enter a fight to offer advice on how to complete it. If someone said they were using Boost-AGI on the Kalunga fight, you could easily suggest they switch to Boost-STR without having personal experience with the fight.

And maybe it is in fact Boost-AGI that they wanted because those last couple points of Evasion from AGI is what matters.

Should never assume that you can logic your way through something you do not know.

I'd sooner assume the boost-agi would be to lower TP feed :^]
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By Lili 2023-08-09 20:12:07
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Valefor.Prothescar said: »
I'd sooner assume the boost-agi would be to lower TP feed :^]

Fair. The point stands that FFXI has so many minor niche details to each fight that you can't really assume a choice by an experienced group is a mistake, or even just unoptimal, because you can't see the logic in it. There might very well be some really obscure reason for it!
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By Pantafernando 2023-08-09 21:45:25
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COR x4 GEO RDM.

RDM kiting, COR quickdrawing and random dealing
 Bahamut.Mischief
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By Bahamut.Mischief 2023-08-10 23:28:05
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So...as people suspected, EFGH bosses and Aminon are still enraged as of the August Version Update. There doesn't seem to be any changes to any of them from what was noted previously.

HOWEVER, through Meteor testing of both versions, we've determined that Enraged Aminon currently does NOT have the 25% DT mentioned in the dev post. We've managed to get our kill speed to the point where we could still kill him even with the extra DT, but other groups may not be so fortunate. With that being said, for those who may want to upgrade to Stage 4 and attempt to farm it now...

Enraged Aminon strategy:

As of writing this, we're 2/4 on Mesosiderite - low sample size, but it might just be a flat 50% rate. Good luck!
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 Carbuncle.Papesse
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By Carbuncle.Papesse 2023-08-11 01:31:35
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Bahamut.Mischief said: »
-How exactly is Mewing Lullaby nerfed on Aminon (if it is nerfed on the enraged version)? Is it similar to Gaol NM's, or worse?
For the normal version it is the same nerf as in Odyssey apparently.
https://twitter.com/long_horned/status/1683687432137641984
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By SimonSes 2023-08-11 05:35:40
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Bahamut.Mischief said: »
So...as people suspected, EFGH bosses and Aminon are still enraged as of the August Version Update. There doesn't seem to be any changes to any of them from what was noted previously.

HOWEVER, through Meteor testing of both versions, we've determined that Enraged Aminon currently does NOT have the 25% DT mentioned in the dev post. We've managed to get our kill speed to the point where we could still kill him even with the extra DT, but other groups may not be so fortunate. With that being said, for those who may want to upgrade to Stage 4 and attempt to farm it now...

Enraged Aminon strategy:

As of writing this, we're 2/4 on Mesosiderite - low sample size, but it might just be a flat 50% rate. Good luck!

Thx for posting this!

About exclusivity, I think BST is not required here. Without Aymur (he was using Prime for Blitz) TP drainkiss below 1000TP (on target) wasnt absorbing much TP. Probably only like 300-500 at most, every 30 sec. Could probably just use GEO/DRK for example or another DRK (if you dont have BST).

I kinda wish there was a way to fit Prime DNC here somehow. It would have amazing dps here. Most of the WSs would be with Climactic, while also DNC can get lots of TP with reverse flourish, so frequency would also be higher and on top of that and DNC would add another -10% def down from higher box step. I don't see the room for it sadly though. Unless like Mischief suggested instead of DRK assuming COR and BRD going /SMN would be enough.
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2023-08-11 06:28:32
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Asura.Eiryl said: »
You guys are going to be super disappointed when you find out there's nothing particularly special about the "secret" It's kinda sop.


Bahamut.Mischief said: »
Enraged Aminon strategy
Generic Gravity Kite
Asura.Eiryl said: »
Sometimes I'm surprised more battles aren't done this way. Avoid all damage while still holding enmity and walking away. Why bother tanking it when you can do that and skip the need for the healer altogether.

"But there's so much more to it than that!!!111!ONE"
Yeah, no
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