Prime WS Information, Testing, Discussion

Gotta be careful with Mumei on H I've done some 99999 heals which makes him spam fetters.

Yup, same. But since what heals him changes not much you can do other than try to WS and not SC at all.

Flood,Icey,Eroding I use Fudo
Flaming,Fulminous I use Mumei

This pairs well with our DNC that's using Ruthless or Rudra's.

Bold to assume everyone will pay attention to the element he has.

People struggle to keep their hands off their elegy macro on B/F, let alone pay attention to Aita's elements.

Out of curiosity, why would dnc be better the war and sam or drk and sam? We do the latter typically and can take out 8 boss but more usually 7. Just curious what I'm missing and if it's worth contemplating adjustment

5 more levels of Box Step, Box Steps are up on all enemies faster, Chocobo Jig II, possibly Haste Samba for people not delay capped. If you have 5 people WSing, giving them all a buff is much more important than the personal damage of a single DPS. Especially so if the DPS in question is still doing 99k WS, just like the one it's replacing.

A simple React file, if so inclined, can at least call things out in party chat (and/or change a person's AutoWS WS).

What is the point of "playing" FFXI if you delegate the extremely limited button presses, observations, and decisions to a program? What are you actually doing while your bots play for you? Eating popcorn?

Malataru hit the big points. DNC is built for Sortie. Climatic, Reverse are up for every boss. (you can start each fight with a huge combo like Savage > Ruthless > Ruthless) Chocobo Jig allows you to offset cursed. (1 KI at C, skip mini in G) Presto box step x2 to start each fight. With prime dagger they are a great great job for pretty much everything in Sortie.

Thinking there is a point to playing FFXI to begin with. Weird flex edgelord plato.

Watch out! Alphollon C Meriard, over here, has the vanilla high ground. If we offend him with how we enjoy playing video games with our free time, he might vomit all over our discussions.

Maletaru is not Vanilla... He uses windower.

I mean, it was a genuine question. If you have anchor so you don't get knocked back, lua putting all your buffs up for you and have auto-WS set up and auto-WS automatically changing which WS to use based on the mob's WS, react to stun the moves that need to be stunned, etc. what are you actually doing during a boss battle? Are you required to view your screen and react to the information on the screen at all? What is the fun part, watching the WS animations go off and giggling at the high numbers?

This isn't even a vanilla vs mod debate; there are plenty of people who use 70 addons and plugins but still actually press buttons during combat. I just think it's wild that people enjoy playing a game but then do everything in their power to avoid having to interact with the game by reading the text, watching the enemy's animations, or making decisions.


If I'm just like you that means you're just like me, so enjoy trying to live with yourself now :)

I think it's wild that people use Windower instead of just actually being Vanilla. But hey, I'm a purist!

Please move your genuine questions to topics titled philosophy, morals, or things I can't wrap my head around instead of discussions about prime WSs and their applications.

This is a really good layout for a forum. Instead of having a discussion where people can reply to each other in order, let's have a separate thread for each line of thought, that way things don't veer too much.

You seem to have failed to notice that this entire conversation is not related to "prime ws information, testing, and discussion". I noticed you haven't thrown a hissy fit about that. Would you like to call out the discussion of job setups in Sortie, since that's not related to the OP, or are you only offended when I speak?

Why didn't you make another thread about my behavior, that doesn't seem relevant to prime WS information, testing, or discussion?

If it relates to how you would use a Prime Weapon and why you would want it compared to other options and setups then I don't see why it wouldn't at least be sort of on topic.

Feelings about how people enjoy playing the game seem not related at all, but hey the forum is free and if you're paying a sub then you're helping keep the lights on. Since you're no rules, just right; why are you getting upset that someone dumped on you just like you dumped on people that mention playing the game with 3RD PARTY TOOLS!?!<the devil> Chill out man and prescribe to my person belief system on how you should be enjoying your life.

I mean, it was a genuine question. If you have all your daily tasks scheduled and managed by smart devices—from waking you up, to brewing your coffee, to driving your car—what are you actually doing in your day? Are you required to think about or manually handle any tasks at all? Where's the fun in life if your digital assistants are making all the decisions for you?

Is the excitement merely in watching these gadgets operate seamlessly and marveling at the efficiency?

This isn't even a debate about traditional ways versus modern conveniences; it's clear that technology can enhance our lives tremendously. However, I'm curious about the extent to which people disengage from active living and decision-making because everything can be managed for them. It's fascinating to think that some enjoy life most when they're least involved in the minutiae of their routines, preferring to observe from a distance as their automated systems handle the complexities of daily life.

I say this as someone who personally enjoys doing things the "hard way" compared to others: the sense of accomplishment from watching numbers go up when those numbers are somehow associated with the watcher is well-documented. It's the same phenomenon as idle games and arguably even (non-gambling) fantasy sports. Nothing about this is unique to FFXI or even to gaming, it's a part of human psychology that's directly adjacent to those that are directly exploited by MMO game design.

My point, which it seems like you...mostly...understood was that conversations flow from one topic to another and take branches. This conversation went from:
DNC prime is useful in Sortie -> DNC is useful even without prime -> How can I fit DNC into my setup? -> You should use these different WS on Sortie bosses -> You can switch WS dynamically with React if you're using auto-WS -> Why do you feel the need to automate everything

Almost none of that has to do with prime WS information, even the first part is only LOOSELY related to the OP. I was just pointing out that you (seem to) have no issue with the first 5 deviations from the OP, but as soon as I speak, now you're a purist on the topics in the thread. I didn't see you complaining to the react guy about the fact that react-changing WS isn't related to prime WS information, despite being incredibly off-topic from the OP. Conversations flow and it makes no sense to create a new thread for every branch; if someone makes a point or brings something up, you respond to them where they made that point so they and others can read it, not post a new topic and hope anyone reads both and puts 2-and-2 together.


I'm not upset, I'm just posting my opinions on a forum, like you and everyone else. Does sarcasm = being upset now? Are you upset then? I don't have an issue if people automate their entire FFXI experience, good for them, it doesn't affect me in any way. I would love to understand what is causing that and what enjoyment they get out of that though since, as I said above, at a certain level of automation you aren't playing the game anymore by any measure I can think of, except maybe moving your bot between pieces of content.

easy fix for all these hurt feelings- start doing things in game just because you want to have the results and enjoy the process, not to lorde over your fellow gamers while afk in Mhaura. If you don't give a ***if your "honest" Prime means more than the botted one, then no hurt feelings.

In this case it's not about having fun in that way. As it has ever been with video game cheats, the fun is in the domination allowed by the cheating.

Claim bots, flee hacks, clipping through doors or up and down cliffs, fishbot, and automating characters has always been about dominating the game.

Basically, the description from the Destiny 1 sniper rifle is the philosophy.



If the react scripts can beat a person's response time on average and fluidly in every/more situations, then they are better than the operator, and allow the operator to employ them to perform better. Better performance = more domination = Feeling superior, good, clever, etc.

They can also basically be used to do the monotonous task over and over again to get the results, while the operator doesn't have to be playing the game. Then, they can take advantage of the gains their automated characters got for them, when they feel the urge to actually play themselves, which they can do at any time (of course, they won't fully engage, because their perspective is already that at least partial automation is superior performance, and will choose to avoid feeling bad by employing it. Avoidance of bad feeling is just as important as pursuit of good feeling).

the thing the anti-React™ folks always cite is that FFXI is such an old game, there are insanely few moments where human reaction, even with server latency, isn't sufficient. One or two random Ambuscades that have since been adjusted make their way into the lore as "oh you gotta", and suddenly its the common method for any content in existence, rather than maybe fail once or twice and learn the patterns, then never have it be an issue again.

I get where the thought process originates- fact is FFXI just isn't one of these games that reaches a point where its truly needed.

In Asura Speed Hack is common, there is no shame to use it.
they use some addon that show them exits and nms, and then brag that they do 9 bosses.

that exists? i wouldve thought bitzers and ***wouldnt be visible outside of draw distance

as far back as mrargus you could ask the server to tell you things it normally wouldn't be sending information about. just gotta ask nicely.

Its *** amazing just how many exploits exist because the game servers are beyond gullible.

Ok I tried both Jinpu on Dhartok (E boss) and Kagero on Triboulex (G boss) with Doji and without threnodies and it was 15-18k damage, so I'm sticking to my original WSes (although Jinpu hit for 99k on A-boss, also without threnody). Also brought down Dhartok a lot faster with 5 people WSing than just SAM 4-stepping. From claim to kill, 51 seconds. Previously SAM 4-stepping 1 min, 46 sec. I only tried casting associated threnody II once with resistance (without Frazzle 3 since we just don't use it for how fast the other NMs go down, literally the RDM casts Dia III, (stymie) Distract III, and Inundation and the mob is already down to 60% HP or lower).

With the extra time we are able to hunt upper floor minor NMs and do other small objectives with that time. Also will try SAM on Impulse Drive for E-boss next.

I don't personally go SAM to Sortie because I have Foenaria and Loughnashade, but I know from Dynamis wave 3, you need macc food. Especially if you were trying it without threnodies, you have to eat Stewpot, Rolanberry etc. Using Dynamis as an example again, just swapping to Grape really *** with dmg, so it's going to be a similar situation here.

Maybe you weren't using Threnodies because your BRD is lazy? Because I can't imagine doing Sortie without one, but if you are using hybrids, deff have them start doing them. We haven't been doing it because when we bring our SAM, they are typically doing Impulse, Mumei or Fudo so it doesn't *** with skillchains, but we will try out Jinpu next time if we remember, and we would certainly put threnody on for them if that is the case.

Can confirm people on Asura flee hack even during pugs with people they don't know, which I think is mental.

To be fair, some people love to build cars but don't really give a ***about driving. I know several people that only play ffxi to code luas. That's what keeps them interested.