Prime WS Information, Testing, Discussion

Looks very fuchsia to me bruh.

and this is why Art is dead, folks.

A Rose by any other name....still smells just as sweet. Those of us who just can enjoy the beauty without having to find out what the numerical code for a hue is know the truth....


its Blurple's Sister, Pinkle.

Jesus it hurt watching you manual everything other than your equipsets... why don't you have buttons on your hotbar for NiTro or standard song stuff? It looks as if you manual sorted the spells to the bottom for convenience, but whenever I've done that randomly it unsorts them and wasted all my time... I'd rather just have it all in my macro book. I get that you get used to what you learn and it becomes kinda muscle memory but that has to lead to some mistakes now and then no? Either way cool to watch how other people go about it.

Your run was solid for sure pretty standard range of times other than floor 3, where I personally think you lost alot by not having the tank bring everything Up and Down to you, but if you're clearing with time to spare its not like that matters.


If you believed he was kind of slow... you can easily see how a few minutes can be shaved off. 5 full minutes? I don't know, but I posit the possibility. But clearly without fleehax

Also, YES Chests contribute to the total at touch. Its very much so worth getting your mage, bard, or whomever their costs reduced to maximum by opening 50 of each chest variant (5 Izzat for small, 7 izzat for medium, 10 izzat for aurum). Touching is +25% of what you've earned, so in essence it turns into 20% of your total. If you have izzat left over at the end, and you have plenty of time, Bolter up and find whatever chests you missed before touching.

I believe the best touch I've ever gotten was 1,540,000g, 2812 segs?
Which is weird because I almost always get 1.54m gil for full clear, but the segs varies between 2700, 2712, 2787, 2800, 2807 and 2812. Not sure what's producing these miniscule variances? Perhaps the SIZE of chests opened throughout the run, or whether 1 2 or 3 izzat is leftover?


Pink aura is pink! Don't know why people recoil at the idea of it not being purple, like wearing pink inhibits their masculinity or something. It looks sick as it is.

I prefer to do the songs manually because there's a lot of flexibility in what I need to cast depending on who's missing songs, who needs a piannismo etc. plus I have 6 macro sets for BRD, so having a 7th which was buffs and then having it in some random place 3-4 up/downs away from the macros I'm currently using just feels like extra work/opportunity for mistakes. My songs never get re-sorted ever, and Aria/HMarch are always at the bottom, that's why I put the buffs at the bottom. It's not bad at all. At the end of the day there's only so much macro space and I can't fit 10-20 more macros of buffs in a convenient place while also meleeing, sleeping, etc.

I also do /equipset for my nitro gear (if I need it) because having nitro macro(s) with /wait 1 is just slower and more cumbersome than /equipset 32, ctrl J, even with the ctrl up up up up and having to remember if I'm going from macro book 7 to 8 or 4 to 8 aside

Could consider changing the BRD from a DD to a tank, but we don't have one in the setup so there isn't someone to pull packs from top/bottom. IDK exactly how many mobs I killed but losing that damage to save the ~30 seconds it takes to go up/down a set of stairs is kinda meh. I'm sure it's more efficient but I don't think it's as big as people think, especially considering that the halo could be in those spots, eliminating the benefit.

As I said, I'm sure we could do better, we definitely have (opening chests along the way too), but I'm still not entirely convinced of 18 minute run (12 minutes left on timer). We're not perfectly efficient, but shaving off 6-7 minutes by engaging faster and skipping some stairs seems a bit extreme.

Either way, there ya go, you can, with absolutely no takos, complete with 5+ minutes remaining, even without a tank and with all kinds of mistakes/inefficiencies. It's not particularly challenging.

Size matters

• If you're paying 5 izzat to open a small chest for 100 segs return, that's 20 segs per 1 izzat

• If you're paying 8 izzat to open a medium chest for 150 segs, that's only 18.75 segs per izzat

• If you're paying 10 izzat to open an aurum strongbox for 200 segs return, that's 20 segs per 1 izzat

The reason you see the variance is because the medium size chests are more inefficient to open. Ideally you want to open the fewest tier 2 chests as possible and maximize the number of tier 1 and tier 3 boxes you get. Sometimes the tier 2 doesn't upgrade to an aurum of course, but that's where your variance is coming from.

How interesting, never seen it broken down to the per izzat return... but it makes sense

So essentially you should open all 12 Chests, and then pray on the remaining Coffers that pop to yield Aurums. Never really broke down how many izzat you get exactly per run but the Maths dont lie.

Worth noting that NMs are worth more than this, 10 izzat for 280~340 segments (popping at a halo) so theoretically popping 3 of these is more efficient for segments. Add on to that NMs popped via UNM items and you can stretch this even further. I'm not sure what a perfect run is worth (7 NMs) since, as I think we discussed in that video (whoopsie the voice comms were in there), everyone keeps forgetting to bring their UNM items.

I've never seen a group actually pop "free" NMs with Izzat, so I had always assumed it was less efficient than chests. It's also the fact that you can't assume your going to have a good run with time to spare at the end and its just more reasonable to open as you go. I'm certainly intrigued as to what a "perfect" run would be now.

Given that we're in the prime testing thread, is it worth saying that I don't think access to prime stage 4s/5s (OTHER than Aria of course) really moved the needle in a noticeable way, and it's really just been more MLs and Empy +3 that's allowed us to steamroll Sheol C in the last 6-12 months

It's more efficient per izzat spent, but usually makes the run much worse because the NMs you're going to spawn are problematic. The reason we stick to just spawning the wyrm, behemoth, cerberus, and warden is because the OTHER three nms are hydra, adamantoise, and khimaira. Hydra can eat up large amounts of time if he spends an extended duration with physical shield up, and if he uses trembling he's dispelling your buffs. Adamantoise is highly defensive and tortoise song dispels ALL your buffs for everyone in range. Adamantoise and hydra both use invincible, so that's an additonal 30 seconds wasted fighting each of them. And khimaira uses perfect dodge, so add another 30 seconds wasted swinging at nothing to him, and dreadstorm (aoe terror) is another time waster move khimaira likes to use.

The three nms we skip are skipped for a reason. They take more time to kill than they're worth the effort for.

Yeah, definitely 2 or maybe 3 minutes. I also still call bs on 18-20 minutes but I'm sure a video will appear soon (not)

I think the important takeaways from this though are:
1.) Weapon/WSD aren't even close to the deciding factor between your success or not, performance and coordination are much more important
2.) Don't dismiss others' claims based on your personal experience. It's entirely possible that they're doing things you're not doing, or aren't doing things you are
3.) Segment farms are about the worst possible place you could try to determine the value of a prime weapon

I'm not convinced a prime weapon is going to make a bad player good, a good player great, or going to allow you to complete content you couldn't otherwise clear. I will say, however, that they have put up some serious damage numbers that I wasn't seeing previously, things have gone a bit smoother for us since acquiring them, and the SC properties are really nice for every weapon. They deliberately chose properties that would be beneficial for each weapon type and it shows.

I'm seeing Primes as a Lotus. Sure, you get them on a track with ideal conditions and the perfect environment for them to not hold back, and its going to become hard for anything but another Lotus to compete.

But take that beauty out for your morning commute, and the BMW M3 is gonna hold its own, and based on the skill of the driver itself, not the vehicle, even pull ahead frequently.

Perhaps people have become too used to games where there is an end goal for each type of weapon or armor, and that end goal piece has no real debate around it- its the last you can get either thru storyline or boss fight or whatever, so it of course is the best. FFXI is not that game- situation and playstyle matter a whole lot, and nothing is going to end up the clear single "best choice" for all moments and situations....but it sure feels like the Naegling Generation is convinced that if something isn't leaps and bounds the best for all situations, its a waste.

I really wish I could do 5 sorties on my day off

I really wish I could do 5 Oddy Cs on my day off

I really wish SE would think about the people who want this

Even if they just stacked to 3 I'd be happy.

I have said for the last 3 pages numerous times that kill speed is not the issue, my doubt is around getting around (logistics) more than anything. I am waiting for a video as any further discussion is pointless. No vid, no proof, I don't believe it.

They are doing what they are doing cause updates have been cut (at least for now) and so they are keeping people playing by stretching stuff out, however as you say they should really add a way for players to save entrances as they have done with most other content.

Forcing people to login ever day is really stupid and bad, cause the mindset of an XI player is "if I can't do it every time it's on CD and lose the entrance I'll just opt out completely".

Even Omen lets you save a few up so you can do it once or twice a week, this is a mindset thing. It's baffling to me they don't get that.

You're saying you wanna spend 5 hours in sortie in a single day? No, I doubt it. You really don't want that, even if you think you do.

I'd love to believe you, except you also said you wouldn't believe that a 25 minute run could be done without fleehacks then, same day, I provided you a video of it and you moved the goalposts to talk about how 20m isn't possible so I'm not sure any video could convince you of anything.

I'm also skeptical about an 18-20m run, as I've pointed out in other posts, but I'm not going to demand a video because I can see how it could theoretically be done. As I said, I've had runs with 6-7 minutes left and we don't use a puller or a tank, at all, for anything. I could definitely see how having DDs spending more time focused on killing and less time worried about mobs wiggling around, how many they can handle at once, etc. would cut off 2-3 minutes. There are loads of times when 2-4 of us target the same mob and race to finish it instead of switching targets. We never had anyone go off on their own to solo a pack, as others have suggested here. It also wasn't a particularly lucky run and I'm playing vanilla. These things add up and can really make a difference.

You really need to be a lot more critical of your own presumptions and integrate what people are saying into your perspective instead of dismissing everything outright. You yourself pointed out several ways that my group's run was inefficient and I've just pointed out several more. If you don't think these things could save 2 or 3 minutes, I don't know what to tell you. Maybe you think I'm lying about our other runs? You're just entirely too skeptical, it's not a very productive attitude to have when trying to work on improving, IMO.

On sat while my kid is asleep.... absofuckinglutly

Weed vape... check

Edibles... check

5 homies who enjoy talking ***on discord... check

skills to pay the bills - double check

For many, getting one free afternoon is easier than a free single hour 5 nights. The issue isn't (or shouldn't) be which is better, but simply allowing players to have the choice, the way we did with Omen.

Both I and my friends left the game (I hope temporarily) when we saw that Sortie was required daily, the feeling of losing progress and the absurd spam of the same content (odyssey/sortie) exhausted us.

We haven't played retail for almost a year (but we still play on era 75 servers) and when we talk about going back, the thought of doing Odyssey/sortie every day again takes away our desire to play.

I still don't understand why they didn't make Sortie like Dynamis or Nyzul isle, accumulating stags.

It's a shame that they relied on FFXIV's sad diaries to manage FFXI's content.

They cant do that cuz “If there are stacked entry KIs, everyone will go on saturday and crash the instance”

As if instance limitations and queue systems dont already exist.

Also forcing (oops cant use that term because it implies they have a gun to your head) making people to go daily or bust doesnt stretch things out. The finish line doesnt get any closer with that change. The finish line moves further away for every daily run missed, but the finish line also moves further away if someone goes out of town for a week.

Sortie should be on a 68hr lock out, stacks 1 KI and triple the Galli.

Honestly id be more encouraged to do it. I dont think ive entered Sortie in 2024 yet.

Just letting ruspix build on the same rate as your regular plate would be nice

Oh I definitely would, or at least ~3 hours one day and another ~3 hours on a second. When we have busy adult lives, it's much easier to get one big block of free time then many little blocks.

Another day, another fabricated claim by Maletaru.

Here's my actual post:
You did not submit a sub 25 minute full clear. I then admitted that your run could have been much better and accepted that sub 25 minutes would be possible without flee hax given your video.

I then said I still do not believe 18-20 minutes is possible. This is not moving the goalposts. You need to learn to read and not twist things.

100% would rather blitz it all in 1 day than do it multiple days a week,

5 is way too many, would literally rot your brain. By the 3rd run I'd want to die, but would still push through to finish it.

Ody C I'd have to go DD, BRD, healer just to mix it up to do 3. Couldn't bare doing any more in a row.