Odyssey R25 Confirmed ATM Now Maybe 30?... |
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Odyssey R25 Confirmed ATM Now Maybe 30?...
SimonSes said: » Asura.Shaedhen said: » Gigelorum Matamata are in general resist ice, so maybe thats why it would resist bind. Ah right, that must've been why then. Had no issue with Henwen and didn't bother with Procne. I didn't try to sleep them however, maybe someone else in the group did, but can't give an answer on that. Has anyone attempted to kill the adds to see how much HP they have and if they get resummoned or not?
Asura.Geriond said: » I don't think anyone tested lower charge values, but the simplest and most straightforward way to implement the system would have been to give the charges fixed bonuses based on V level (like +40% per additional average V level) and not involve any kind of scaling mechanic based on what you use it against. This is SE, though, so it's not surprising if they decided to go with something more complicated than necessary. I think the explanation is that the amplifier is not a multiplier but instead adds some bonus RP. People just thought of it as a multiplier since the amount it adds was a multiple of 392 (or whatever for lower vengeance values). So the v15 charged amp would always add 2352 (392x6) and nothing was nerfed. 4464 = 2352(v15 charge) + 2112(v20 amp'd win)
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I think you guys are missing the obvious. They said outright that the bonus would be based on the NMs used to charge up the amplifier. So, given a plain amplifier gives (2 * base), then a charged amplifier likely gives (2 * base) for each NM used to charge it.
If you charged your amplifier with 3 V15 nms, you would get a bonus of 6 V15 NMs worth of RP on the next fight. Add the base amount, and you get the 8x base multiplier we are used to. Using an old charge on a new NM would be 6x V15 + 2x V20 + earned V20. To get the predicted higher RP, you need to charge it with 3 V20 nms, and subsequently receive 8x V20 NMs worth of bonus RP on the next fight. Except if that were true, then doing a V15 charge on a lower V fight would give basically the same RP as on a higher one, and I'm 95% sure people tested that back when they first introduced the mechanic and they got reduced RP based on how much that V level gave.
Asura.Geriond said: » Except if that were true, then doing a V15 charge on a lower V fight would give basically the same RP as on a higher one, and I'm 98% sure people tested that back when they first introduced the mechanic. Asura.Geriond said: » Except if that were true, then doing a V15 charge on a lower V fight would give basically the same RP as on a higher one, and I'm 95% sure people tested that back when they first introduced the mechanic and they got reduced RP based on how much that V level gave. Could be that the x6 part of that is based on the previous vengeance levels? We'll know after we get more V20 charged runs done. Asura.Geriond said: » Except if that were true, then doing a V15 charge on a lower V fight would give basically the same RP as on a higher one, and I'm 95% sure people tested that back when they first introduced the mechanic and they got reduced RP based on how much that V level gave. If they charged on 3x V15 and they would kill V5 next, then they would get RP of 6xV15 and 2xV5 + V5, so it would be lower than doing V15 and getting 6xV15 and 2xV15 + V15 (I split it like that for readability). Yes, which would be close enough to full V15, and I'm pretty sure someone reported it was all lowered in proportion. I'd have to go back and search through the topic for it.
Base is 704 on V20, 392 on V15.
(3 * 704) + (6 * 392) = 4464, which is the exact amount gained by Rua Shiva.Thorny said: » Base is 704 on V20, 392 on V15. (3 * 704) + (6 * 392) = 4464, which is the exact amount gained by Rua Yeah it fits very well. It's exactly like Secare wrote above. Looking at it in terms of variables it's probalby simplified as
(RPEarned + (2 x MaxRPFromCharge)) x ChargeValue The question would be is MaxRPFromCharge changed by fighting variable levels of vengence, like if you fight one V20 and 2 V15s would the maxRPFromCharge be 392, 704, or some distribution in between. Cerberus.Shadowmeld said: » Looking at it in terms of variables it's probalby simplified as (RPEarned + (2 x MaxRPFromCharge)) x ChargeValue The question would be is MaxRPFromCharge changed by fighting variable levels of vengence, like if you fight one V20 and 2 V15s would the maxRPFromCharge be 392, 704, or some distribution in between. I know what you are saying, but the math you wrote there is totally off. Distribution in between is exactly the same as taking max RP from each fight separately and adding it. The math is like Secare wrote, then I broken it on more elements for readability (based on his idea) and Thorny added real numbers for even more readability. The only thing left is to test it to confirm it. The equation I submit fits Secare's.
RPEarned: 704 MaxRPFromCharge: 392 (v15) Charge Value: 3 (704 + (2 x 392)) x 3 = (3 x 704) + (6 x 392) = 2112 + 2352 = 4464 But you can't use a charge that wasn't a full 3 kills, and that assumes that it takes the highest kill rather than the total. It's much more logical that it's just summing the total RP that amplifiers would have granted for the 3 charging kills and tacking that onto the used kill.
Which is why I said that the only real thing in question at this point is what determines the amount you get for the charge.
Edit: Let me clarify. It remains to be seen if it is just multiplying a value by the ChargeValue or whether for each charge value it is Multiplying the RP accumulated according to the Vengeance Level previously fought. AKA, I've already acknowledged that the equation is technically simplified in that it doesn't account for charging an amp using variable vengeance levels to charge it. 2 pages of arguing math! Just go test your theory already haha
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I'd love to, can't play atm.
Asura.Aerox said: » 2 pages of arguing math! Just go test your theory already haha They do be lovin to theorize and question and argue and make things as hard as possible instead of simply just going and doing it don't they.
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Asura.Eiryl said: » Asura.Aerox said: » 2 pages of arguing math! Just go test your theory already haha They do be lovin to theorize and question and argue and make things as hard as possible instead of simply just going and doing it don't they. Better than whining about people doing anything. Not everyone can simply go and test that. First, I can't play right now (it would take at least 1h+). Second, I don't have segments to waste, I save them for static event in few days. I have a v15 charge I could use to test but I also won't be logging in until later.
Asura.Secare said: » I have a v15 charge I could use to test but I also won't be logging in until later. I think that would result in the same that Rua already got. What would need to be tested is charge amplifier with V5>V10>V20, then use it on a V15 and see what happens then. I dont have segments to waste like that tho :) I assumed he was talking about testing it on a lower NM, not a V20.
Asura.Geriond said: » I assumed he was talking about testing it on a lower NM, not a V20. I guess that would 100% confirm that boost from 3x fight is static and only depends on V you boost it on, not the fight you use it on (but that can already be seen in data we have, it would just be confirmation it works on lower V than 3 fights you did for boost, the same way it works on higher V than 3 fights you did for boost). You would still need to make another test to make 3 fights on different V and check if bonus from each is calculated separately. Received 2112 RP with an amp, so I’d 3x that would be 6336.
Also, NMs gain a potent regen effect when their add is near them, or at least in general when the add is out. The random hate mechanics are brutal though. Valefor.Worlace said: » Received 2112 RP with an amp, so I’d 3x that would be 6336. This was already confirmed. What wasn't is that we thought for whole time that boosted amplifier was adding X8 max RP of fight that you used it on. While now it looks more like it gives X2 max RP of each fight that it was boosted on, then additionally it works like regular amplifier on fight you are using it on, so in addition to that boosted accumulated bonus it also gives X2 max RP from fight you are using it on. Valefor.Worlace said: » Also, NMs gain a potent regen effect when their add is near them, or at least in general when the add is out. The random hate mechanics are brutal though. Good info about Regen. I don't think this hate mechanic is random. We just haven't figured out the logic it's using yet. Anyone tried killing the add? Does it respawn or stay dead, and how much HP did it have?
It appears that V20 NMs have regen. Even more fun.
Oh, just noticed this was already posted. Oof Someone suggested that the adds give the main nm's regeneration, and that does appear to be a possibility. I just had an encounter with Gogmagog where he TP'd immediately as soon as the 2hr animation went off and people didnt have time to react to it and get out of range. He regenerated back to full shortly thereafter. We were able to bind the add but the kill speed was definitely slower post-add than pre-add.
If this is confirmed to be the case then leaving the adds up on higher veng nm's is a flat out death sentence. And if we're getting a second add whenever they release veng 25 down the road that's even more reason to consider strategies other than just binding them. |
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