Let's Start A Riot?!?!

You attack me for generalizations and those are the bulk of your statements, to be honest. "We" meaning, me I assume as well, no amount of posting on the internet or agreeing with the protesters will change anything. Sometime down the road, another black man who is breaking the law, whether that law be horrific or minor, will end up getting killed by a cop. As will another white man, but the white man getting killed by the cop gets no media attention because nobody cares about that, even other whites.

I'm not condemning protesters. I condemn looters/assaulters of innocent people. Not sure if you heard of them, but names like Mahatma Gandhi and Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. ring a bell for me as men who made enormous impacts globally and not just for their time period, but for all time...and they did so peacefully. There may be a reason the advocates of violence are generally either forgotten by history or at bare minimum, painted with a negative brush, as they should.

Now I was nicely conversing with you and trying to ignore the claims of others that you are simply a far-left nut who thinks advocating for others to commit violence is somehow just and brave, but you're doing your best to convince me they aren't just trolling.

here's the thing, if you guys are really that adamant about the looting/rioting stopping and you aren't focused on SOLVING THE PROBLEM THAT MADE THEM GO HAYWIRE.. it's going to happen again, and again, and again. all the responses we're seeing in this thread if shown to someone who's doing the looting - would propel them forward. they don't give a ***anymore, folks were backed into a corner and are coming out swinging because talking and kneeling got them nowhere.

So the cowards go and attack defenseless business owners, destroy newly created jobs and create chaos? Losers, all of them. They need to face those officials and stop involving people who have nothing to do with this. The protesters aren't the ones doing that btw.

As long as people like you lie and try to spread propaganda, I'll be here to call you out and make you look foolish until you go to bed angry. You became so desperate to be right that you tried to claim that "literally" is synonymous with "virtually" just to not be wrong lol. Sad.

Bro, I've given you ample evidence supporting my opinions. This isn't me navel-gazing and speculating.

These are actual historical facts. I'm sorry if you don't like them, but that doesn't make it any less true.

Gay rights as we know them would not be a thing if it weren't for Stonewall. Even outside this discussion, I suggest you read about the riots.

MLK was never listened to until the riots happened. You know what happened? Black people rioted, and then people started to pay attention. THEN, MLK popped in and spoke to these people once he had their attention. But he was largely ineffectual, sadly, until the riots had happened.

You can disagree all you want, but I think it's ridiculous for someone to ignore history and pretend these things didn't happen. I would like for you to acknowledge that you have at least skimmed these topics and that you know what I'm talking about.

I've kind of been at an impasse because in order for me to get one of my points across, you and Draylo need to gloss over the history of the Civil Rights movement and Stonewall, or honestly even the American Revolution, but if you're not going to then I guess I'm done here.

Those are three historical precedents in American history where desperate, oppressed people found liberation in (often violent) revolt. America would not exist without violence.

This is not me saying "go out and burn buildings down!" This is me pointing to historical precedence and saying, "Sometimes, this ***has to happen." I'm not about to condemn Washington, Jefferson, Malcolm X for doing what they felt like they had to do.

Sorry but that's where I'm at right now.

If your only problem is the informal use of the word "literally"---

do you not read that tweet as a direct threat?

Because it's a fake problem, and fake problems don't have solutions. Systemic racism doesn't exist in America. Cops kill whites at the same rate they kill blacks. If you want to protest police reform, then protest police reform and leave the racist element out of it. Floyd wasn't killed for being black.

Address the violence within your own black communities > cops won't have to interact with blacks as much > the number of black homicide by cop decreases. period. Take some personal responsibility for being a part of the problem. You commit an incredible amount of crime > you get an incredible amount of interaction with police > police aren't all the best and brightest and *** up some percentage of the time.

Stop making excuses for your poor behavior. You've been given every opportunity in the world, and then some, to be successful, and you're squandering it. On top of that, you're appearing on TV in front of the entire world acting like crazed, degenerate lunatics smashing, burning, murdering, robbing, etc. This doesn't make anyone feel sorry for you or want to help you anymore. It does the opposite. Stop disgracing yourselves.

There is no such thing as systemic racism in America, no one is backed into a corner, that's a *** excuse that you keep repeating so that you don't ever have to take responsibility for your own actions and failures. The sad truth is that if Floyd hadn't been *** around with counterfeit money, trying to swindle someone, he wouldn't have had any interaction with police, and he wouldn't have opened himself up to being killed by retards.

Personal responsibility.

Prove it

I'm going to humor you, one last time but going forward, I honestly don't care if you think I have read what you wrote or not.

I'm fully aware of the Race Riot's of 1967 in Detroit, the Race Riots of 1968, mostly in Chicago after King's assassination....do I really have to list more for proof? It's late and I am tired. I am aware of the Stonewall riots, just watched a documentary about that the other day, actually.

But IN MY OPINION, times have changed. People are "aware." What YOU are implying is that rioting will make them "care." That's not true. You don't seem to be able to differentiate between what I am calling riots and what is protesting. It's just not how things can get done anymore. With social media making us acutely aware of every single incident that any person could possibly twist into something to become enraged about, we are all fully aware, we don't need any more aware.

Now, that being said, being aware does nothing for actual change. But what you are advocating is changing the HUMAN CONDITION. Which is impossible. There will always be hate, there will always be mistakes, there will always be injustice and people will always insert what they feel is the reason.

You are assuming Chauvin killed Mr. Floyd BECAUSE he was racist when we don't even have a way to know for sure if he intended to kill him at all. From the video honestly, it appeared to me he was basically sitting on his neck that long because the people recording it on their cell phone (real heroes, drop the phone and help if you really think the guy is going to die, badge or no badge)...they kept telling him to get off...and the a~hole just had this, "I don't have to do what you tell me" cocky, egotistical look in his eye. He may have just flat out not believed Mr. Floyd due to dealing with liars daily, who knows. But the fact is, he killed the guy and should pay the price for it, cop or not.

But you are stuck on this assumptions he not only INTENDED to kill the man, but did so BECAUSE Floyd was black, which I have not yet seen any definitive evidence of either. Without those two intentions, there should be no rioting at all, so you are not the only one assuming these things. And the media loves it, they'd root for a cop killing every day, makes their lives easier.

Right, we can't peek into his brain and know for sure. FWIW, I don't think he intended to kill the man. I think the cop had some unconscious cognitive bias that allowed him to hold the guy down with his knee (which is obviously wrong) and also held the victim in low regards, enough to keep him pinned down by the neck for 9 whole minutes. It would be these two things that manifested as a result of racial bias-- the end result was an accident on his part.

But this is why we CAN turn to statistics and see that black people are disproportionately fatally killed by cops. Whether or not Chauvin had racial bias is, in some sense, not the main issue here, because we know by looking at aggregate data that yes, the police institution AS A WHOLE certainly treats black men differently.

The repeated pattern of cops killing black people and then getting off scot-free is what's on trial here, and this recent murder is the final catalyst that set off this explosion. I hope this helps.

lol i really hoped in the beginning you would be able to articulate your racism a little better, but you've just managed to provide the same unimaginative talking points as you guys usually do.

ah well

There we go! Civil discourse, I knew you had it in you!

I don't necessarily disagree with much of what you said though depending on how you interpret the data, some can make a good argument that more whites are proportionately killed by cops than blacks, but there are a s##t-ton more of us so that just kind of works out that way.

Bottom line, this cop did it, it's 9 mins of film proving it, he's not getting off. If he does, I'll drag my fat @$$ out of my chair, bad knees and back with me and join the protests myself.

prove that it does exist. your the one spouting "Its ok to burn everything down and steal other peoples belong because rascism"

i strongly suggest you watch candace owens video she goes into depth on how the system isnt against the black man.

fonewear!?

I'm sorry for being abrasive, I think I've been talking about this too much lately

As far as the numbers go, more white people are killed by cops because there are ~4x more whites than blacks in this country. This is not an interesting statistic though, despite what Commodus would have you believe, because we haven't normalized these populations yet.

In terms of population proportions, blacks are 3x more represented in the group of police fatalities. Normally you would expect black deaths to be 1/4x the amount of white deaths, but instead we see 3.0x! Which indicates abnormal behavior en masse.

This is a piece of evidence that supports the notion of racial prejudice in the police system at a national level.

No, I don't think I will, Turning Point USA is a black hole of intelligence

"Prove it doesn't exist" is normally a Devil's Proof, but with an extraordinary statement like "systemic racism doesn't exist", the onus is on him to provide evidence that the most prevalent, documented conclusions about "systemic racism is a thing!" are all false.

As one example, he'd have to provide an alternate hypothesis explaining a 11% wage gap between black men and white men.

Or, you know, the fact that black people are 3x more likely to be fatally shot from a cop than a white person. An argument that doesn't utilize unreliable UCR data.

Perhaps! BUT! Statistics also show based on population numbers, blacks (percentage wise) commit a disproportionate amount of crimes, which places them more often directly, "in the line of fire..." so to speak. Even for their much smaller numbers.

I'm just not thoroughly convinced that our police/legal system are "out to get" black people as some imply. I just think it's more of a, "protecting their own" kind of thing. I mean, that cop that shot that white kid in the hallway of his apt. building while he was on his knees, begging for them to not shoot him...HE got off not guilty as well, so, I just think cops getting off is more of a, "the justice system covers for cops" thing, not necessarily a, "the justice system covers for cops who kill black people only" thing.

That being said, stay safe everyone. I'm super tired.

Hardly. But if your answer to "how can we improve our situation in life?" is "destroy our own neighborhoods!", you're probably way off the mark.

This is a very complex issue that has roots in economics, culture, politics, history, etc. People tend to think in very uncreative, linear, "if x then y" fashions when it comes to facing complex problems. When you're fighting for very specific rights, being the loudest person in the room gets you noticed. When fighting for vague platitudes where you're trying to "fix" behavior in others (e.g. racism) then engaging in behaviors that are inherently negative only serves to destroy any sympathy that could be used to improve those relations.

One of the last things that people want to hear when they're a victim of some kind of mistreatment is that there is nothing you can do to force change onto other people. You can punish them, you can attempt to educate them, you can do whatever, but the only person you can actually change for sure is yourself. Have blacks been mistreated over the years? Holy crap yes. But we're also in a society where the default answer to "what's wrong in my life" is "everyone else needs to change". When you tell people, "It's not your fault, it's the system's fault!" over and over and over again, even if it's 99% true, it has the potential to create a severe psychological block and halt personal growth. You can be a victim without having a victim mentality, but it's dang hard when everyone is constantly reminding you of your victim status.

I understand these premises but the end results seems like nothing is ever gonna happen.

"If we keep pointing out these injustices, people will think we're the boy who cried wolf!" ---- so what exactly can we do, then? Not point out the injustices?

This is why riots just happen. Based on all of the existing evidence we have, riots achieve results. They are never the first choice, and if there was an effective alternative, everybody would be on board with that.

I also see no evidence that pointing out these injustices leads to arrested development in oppressed populations. If anything, it seems like the most intelligent, well-spoken people out there ACTUALLY ARE black/female/otherwise-oppressed voices who have taken the time to read social philosophy, critical theory, and/or activist literature. (Because when the deck is stacked against you, you have to work twice as hard just to stay afloat, which gives us a handful of particularly bright minds, if they are given chances to succeed in the first place.)

Is there evidence that victim complexes routinely emerge in oppressed groups? I follow the train of thought but it's the kind of thing that can't be proven armchair-style.

So to be clear---

I hear a lot of people talk about "personal responsibility" which, yeah, is important, but comes across as completely detached from the issue of systemic injustice.

You CAN assert that maybe having a victimhood mindset stunts personal growth, but that is something you will need to justify with proof somehow. And THEN make the assertion that, even if personal growth is stunted somehow, "undoing" the victimhood mindset is a worthwhile exchange for whatever personal growth you can recover. But it seems like an uphill battle and to me at least, doesn't pass the sniff test.

Most racism isn't conscious, it's something that subtly affects your actions and behaviors around different people. What normally happens with cops is:

"It's a black person" ->
"Black people are dangerous" ->
"I need to be on edge" ->
*something happens* ->
Cop's fight-or-flight instinct kicks in ->
Gun is fired, to kill

When it's a white person, the cop's guard is down, so escalation doesn't happen as above.
This is usually how racism manifests in practice.

Regarding the "black people commit more crimes!" part:

1) The UCR reporting is well-documented to be unreliable, since the reports are selectively filed from individual police stations, and black crimes are over-represented in reporting by ~10%
2) The intersection between "poor neighborhoods" and "black neighborhoods" is extremely high, and we know that poverty/financial disparity is a very strong predictor for violent crime. The fact that "black violence" appears significantly higher is actually because of the poverty/class predictor instead of the raw race variable.

This is consistent with the notion that most violent crime occurs in ghettos, inner-city spots, and areas post-gentrification.

Honestly, I think more often than not that victim complexes don't routinely emerge, but are rather instilled for the sake of manipulation. Certainly there are amazing figures who overcome great tribulations and rise above it (MLK as an obvious example), but it's hard to shake those ingrained messages.

As for the rest, it's not quite what I was going for, but at least we're getting into a higher quality discussion now. For one, injustices should be pointed out. That's not the source of the arrested development. There are several other major things that are (such as extreme political correctness), though I'm not writing an essay in the middle of the night to address each one, so maybe I'll just throw one more paragraph into the wind and attempt to pick it up later if the thread hasn't devolved even further.

One thing that leads to arrested development is equating race with culture. Obviously there is overlap, but it seems like every time the culture of certain groups gets criticized it is automatically deemed as racism in order to shut down the conversation. Clearly there are actual racists who think their culture is superior on account of their race alone, but the fact remains that every culture has major pros and cons. If a culture promotes violence, lawlessness, excessive materialism, the objectification of women or men, etc., then that rightly deserves criticism. Just because it's part your culture doesn't mean it's okay to accept those things into your identity. Sometimes tradition is just flat out wrong. However, as I implied before, the greatest changes almost always come from within.

No he did not, you see it this way because you hate him.
It's obvious that what he was saying is that if people riot and loot, other people will protect themselves and the shooting will start from them.

This entire race argument is a smokescreen and some keep falling for it. The real argument is rich vs poor, not black vs white.

A rich black man has infinitely more power than you will ever have, especially with cops.

The reason the media, the politicians and the rich people on twitter fixate on race is because they want the argument kept in that place and not on their fabulous wealth that gives them immense privilege.

The lives of poor white people are not better than poor black people.

It's also worth pointing out that "rioting" is often instigated by rich white kids from antifa that also want the argument kept away from class and instead kept on racial divisions.