Treasure Hunter Demystified
Treasure Hunter Demystified
Lol, this thread needs a dead horse meme now. Go go go horse cudgel.
Fenrir.Melphina said: »
We know that in the lillith fight barring spitewarden kills there is only one slot that can load malignance gear. We also know the drop table always loads in a specific order. Lets say the table looks like this
Slot 1 -- synth mats -- 100% load
Slot 2 -- synth mats -- 100% load
Slot 3 -- synth mats -- 100% load
Slot 4 -- pluton/beitsu/boulder stones -- 100% load
Slot 5 -- Synth Mats --- less than 100% load
Slot 6 -- Synth mats --less than 100% load
Slot 7 -- Malignance gear -- less than 100% load
Note: It's been a while since I've fought lillith and I don't remember the specific order or total number of drops for each slot. The values are known though an dcan be found in the lillith thread if you care to look them up. This is for example only.
In Lilliths case there is one slot dedicated solely to malignance equipment, and it always loads at the very bottom of the list, and ALL of the malignance pieces are included as shared drops in the pool for that one slot. There is no randomization here. The malignance piece never occurs anywhere else. Always at the bottom, and always as an extra drop beyond the maximum possible drop slots otherwise. We have more than enough screenshots to determine the maximum number of synth mats any mob has, and in what order they'll load. In lilliths case, when that malignance slot DOES load the random goes off to determine which item loads. IE: you're gonna get a lot of swords.....
Slot 1 -- synth mats -- 100% load
Slot 2 -- synth mats -- 100% load
Slot 3 -- synth mats -- 100% load
Slot 4 -- pluton/beitsu/boulder stones -- 100% load
Slot 5 -- Synth Mats --- less than 100% load
Slot 6 -- Synth mats --less than 100% load
Slot 7 -- Malignance gear -- less than 100% load
Note: It's been a while since I've fought lillith and I don't remember the specific order or total number of drops for each slot. The values are known though an dcan be found in the lillith thread if you care to look them up. This is for example only.
In Lilliths case there is one slot dedicated solely to malignance equipment, and it always loads at the very bottom of the list, and ALL of the malignance pieces are included as shared drops in the pool for that one slot. There is no randomization here. The malignance piece never occurs anywhere else. Always at the bottom, and always as an extra drop beyond the maximum possible drop slots otherwise. We have more than enough screenshots to determine the maximum number of synth mats any mob has, and in what order they'll load. In lilliths case, when that malignance slot DOES load the random goes off to determine which item loads. IE: you're gonna get a lot of swords.....
You forgot to take into account: facing west on windsday holding a lucky egg during a full moon.
if you don't care about the data, why not shitpost in a p&r thread or something
Shiva.Thorny said: »
if you don't care about the data, why not shitpost in a p&r thread or something
I care a lot actually. I did over 10 million treasure hunter simulations....turns out it was a waste of time.
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Fenrir.Melphina said: »
I'm flabberghasted. They actually quantified the increase percentage each treasure hunter tier has on drop rates. Never in a million years did I think they'd be willing to release that info. We've asked that same question for what... fifteen years now and they couldn't give us a straight answer.
this.
I stared at that table for seriously 10 minutes thinking "i mean...there's no way they finally just gave a straight answer to this...."
this chart could have been in the 2003 Brady Games Guide. unless it's inaccurate somehow, in which case it should have DEFINITELY been in that guide...
fonewear said: »
You forgot to take into account: facing west on windsday holding a lucky egg
Don't forget to make sure it's a Full Moon. Unless you're in Rabao then make sure it's a New Moon.
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Quote:
this chart could have been in the 2003 Brady Games Guide. unless it's inaccurate somehow, in which case it should have DEFINITELY been in that guide...
They wouldn't have had enough room to print it. You can't fit that much information on a scrap of toilet paper.
Shiva.Thorny said: »
If they actually said that, it's probably good enough to conclude as such. I must have missed it.
It was stated several years ago (18:47). Maybe it's a special case or something, but it does seem to say that TH doesn't impact distribution within a drop slot.
And it took almost 20 years to find this out.....
Quote:
It was stated several years ago (18:47). Maybe it's a special case or something, but it does seem to say that TH doesn't impact distribution within a drop slot.
Quote:
(18:47～)
Question 1: When fighting King Behemoth, do you rely on Treasure Hunter?
We received the following answers to the survey:
1.55.6%: As much as I can with thief as my main job.
2.11.5%: As much as I can with thief as my support job and Treasure Hunter equipment.
3.19.9%: No.
4.13.0%: Never fought King Behemoth.
While I’m divulging specifics about the workings of the system, there are portions of the reward slots that are not affected by the effect of Treasure Hunter. Specifically in regards to King Behemoth, one of the reward slots will be either the Pixie Earring or Defending Ring, and Treasure Hunter has no effect on this.
Question 1: When fighting King Behemoth, do you rely on Treasure Hunter?
We received the following answers to the survey:
1.55.6%: As much as I can with thief as my main job.
2.11.5%: As much as I can with thief as my support job and Treasure Hunter equipment.
3.19.9%: No.
4.13.0%: Never fought King Behemoth.
While I’m divulging specifics about the workings of the system, there are portions of the reward slots that are not affected by the effect of Treasure Hunter. Specifically in regards to King Behemoth, one of the reward slots will be either the Pixie Earring or Defending Ring, and Treasure Hunter has no effect on this.
For reference to the above. Yeah, that's kinda the issue with most of the highly desirables in the current generation of gear. Most of them are in shared drop slots like King B. Volte and HTBF drops (Odin, Lillith, Cait Sith etc) are the primary exceptions that come to mind. And honestly there's no logical reason to believe there's anything else going on behind the scenes. The rarity table, the effect each level of treasure hunter has on drop rates, the system of drop slots... it's all pretty straightfoward. Everything in that drop table fits into the 1 in 1000 random system. You kill a mob, a random is done, the result is weighted against the drop chance in the table and BAM. You have your result. Coding stuff like this is ideally best kept simple, and that's as straightforward as it gets.
Shared item drops just have their own individual ratio. IE if three items share a drop slot, the distribution could be 25%, 70%, and 5%. Does the item load? If yes, then random for which item goes into the pool. Straightforward and easy to implement.
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Lakshmi.Sahzi said: »
I stared at that table for seriously 10 minutes thinking "i mean...there's no way they finally just gave a straight answer to this...."
Meanwhile, I'm a nerd, but an old nerd, so I'm morbidly curious what this chart looked like before Treasure Hunter was changed into a stacking system. Was it merely the first 5 terms of the chart or something else entirely? The world may never know, but the devs may reveal it in November just to keep a few of us intrigued.
Why/how do we know TH doesn’t work on replacement drops?
We don't it's an assumption.
KB being the one specific confirmed case - "well then there must be more than one instance of it"
If you throw every reindeer in existence off a cliff and they all die it does not prove reindeer cannot fly.
KB being the one specific confirmed case - "well then there must be more than one instance of it"
If you throw every reindeer in existence off a cliff and they all die it does not prove reindeer cannot fly.
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Quote:
If you throw every reindeer in existence off a cliff and they all die it does not prove reindeer cannot fly.
Ok I have to give you a cookie for that one. The mental picture that analogy painted for me was just silly. I appreciate the smile.
Asura.Eiryl said: »
We don't it's an assumption.
KB being the one specific confirmed case - "well then there must be more than one instance of it"
If you throw every reindeer in existence off a cliff and they all die it does not prove reindeer cannot fly.
KB being the one specific confirmed case - "well then there must be more than one instance of it"
If you throw every reindeer in existence off a cliff and they all die it does not prove reindeer cannot fly.
SE confirmed it doesn’t work on KB?
Quote:
Specifically in regards to King Behemoth, one of the reward slots will be either the Pixie Earring or Defending Ring, and Treasure Hunter has no effect on this.
Fenrir.Melphina said: »
Ok I have to give you a cookie for that one. The mental picture that analogy painted for me was just silly. I appreciate the smile.
I got that one from my Astronomy Professor more than twenty years ago, one of my favorite quotes.
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The KB one is sorta tricky though cuz chances are you went out with both Shanks, pop HQ first and hope for ring. Then pop NQ and hope for Savory, which you'd throw TH at. So out of habit, just go do it all as THF anyway
Asura.Eiryl said: »
We don't it's an assumption.
KB being the one specific confirmed case - "well then there must be more than one instance of it"
If you throw every reindeer in existence off a cliff and they all die it does not prove reindeer cannot fly.
KB being the one specific confirmed case - "well then there must be more than one instance of it"
If you throw every reindeer in existence off a cliff and they all die it does not prove reindeer cannot fly.
Ah, I get it. Because some wanted to fly and instead died of a heart attack because they were pushed off a cliff.
Fenrir.Richybear said: »
The KB one is sorta tricky though cuz chances are you went out with both Shanks, pop HQ first and hope for ring. Then pop NQ and hope for Savory, which you'd throw TH at. So out of habit, just go do it all as THF anyway
You also have to assume the people that do not play their own game, nor have any real clue about a single god damn thing in the game... actually know that treasure hunter actually doesn't do anything. A bit of a stretch to be very honest.
Not that I don't believe them, just that they aren't the people who I would realistically trust with any factual information about it.
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Asura.Aeonova said: »
with a 4 Leaf Mandragora bud in my inventory.
I'm one of those, cant help it! :P
So in conclusion, we just stack as much TH+ gear as possible in any situation and cross our fingers as we always have done?
Good to know.
Good to know.
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Fenrir.Richybear said: »
The KB one is sorta tricky though cuz chances are you went out with both Shanks, pop HQ first and hope for ring. Then pop NQ and hope for Savory, which you'd throw TH at. So out of habit, just go do it all as THF anyway
fonewear said: »
Shiva.Thorny said: »
if you don't care about the data, why not shitpost in a p&r thread or something
I care a lot actually. I did over 10 million treasure hunter simulations....turns out it was a waste of time.
Some people play the game and others just post on FFXIAH.
Even though TH isn't helpful for items that drop in dedicated slots and TH can still increase the occurrence of a special drop slot, the information in this table is still pretty remarkable.
Keep it up fone, you're doing great:
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Asura.Bippin said: »
Its tricky to know KB doesn't need TH and NQ does? What?
It's not tricky at all, yet people used to hold the pop hostage while their nearly naked THF with Thief's Knife and Armlets whittled away at KB's HP. You'd tell them and they wouldn't believe you, despite having the time to research it while it took eons for it to die.
In all fairness, if we want to go full tinfoil hat.... the statement "one of the reward slots will be either the Pixie Earring or Defending Ring, and Treasure Hunter has no effect on this" could be read to mean that one or the other will always drop, TH doesnt affect the slot, but also TH could affect the probability of which one drops.
If we are gunna go full tinfoil hat, then we have a linguistic way to do so.
If we are gunna go full tinfoil hat, then we have a linguistic way to do so.
Asura.Bippin said: »
Fenrir.Richybear said: »
The KB one is sorta tricky though cuz chances are you went out with both Shanks, pop HQ first and hope for ring. Then pop NQ and hope for Savory, which you'd throw TH at. So out of habit, just go do it all as THF anyway
I meant in their little poll of asking if people had fought KB with a THF would have skewed answers, since chances are they were either on THF or brought a THF with, just because when KB wouldn't put out, they'd want TH for the NQ to get another pop.
I mean, it's a waste of time and energy to pop HQ as whatever job, warp out to change to THF really quick on NQ, warp back out and come out to fight HQ as another job.
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