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The Odyssey - || Strategy and Discussion ||
 Phoenix.Iocus
Serveur: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1498
By Phoenix.Iocus 2024-07-15 13:29:12
So easy to test. Someone take the bait and do the work for me.
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 47
By Asura.Bronzequadav 2024-07-15 13:30:08
Quote: Also if you read the rest of my post, I already linked Long_horned's X thread
Probably should of done that.
Serveur: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2024-07-15 13:32:17
I'm not going to fix that Germany resistance typo
Also if you read the rest of my post, I already linked Long_horned's X thread
 Shiva.Thorny
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2777
By Shiva.Thorny 2024-07-16 08:43:17
Valefor.Prothescar said: »As for a reproducible test that can show the extra stat bonus applying at the buff/debuff stage, I've already touched on it but I'll lay out all the steps.
1) Fight an Apex or Locus Crab/Crawler to find its unbuffed/undebuffed DEF value. Ranged attacks are easiest, a GEO and a COR should be enough for this since they don't have Germany resistance.
2) Let them put up Cocoon/Scissor Guard. The resulting impact on ratio should match the expected value of just the def buff and def debuff(s) being applied to base defense. It's easier to do this with a single, easy to digest Defense Down value (Angon 25%, Tenebral Crush 20%, etc) or a combination thst gets you an exact, easy to use number like 50%. Cocoon and Scissor Guard are both 100% DEF bonuses.
3) Repeat steps 1 and 2 on Ayapec or Emperor Arthro. This time, you'll notice that the resultant damage doesn't align with a 100% Defense Bonus and [your defense down potency here]. The effect of defense down will seemingly be halved. (This would work on Centurio XX-I as well, but I don't know the potency of Sand Veil offhand).
I am not doubting the results of your test. But, it has no relevance to Odyssey or Sortie, as far as I'm concerned. You're still talking about mobs in areas with level correction.
Presumably, the modifiers being used are specifically in place to offset the mobs being coded as lv99.
Is there any data to indicate that scaling content without level correction has the same issue, anywhere? It seems pretty clear that Sheol A-C do not have level correction, given the level of segment farm monsters and their damage taken. Do you have anything to indicate that Sheol-Gaol has level correction or that Gaol bosses are coded as lv99?
I do not have immediate data to disprove your theory, but it's a novel claim and I do not see any support for it either. We have already accepted that a geomancy nerf exists, and I have not seen any claims to indicate that it does not fully explain our experiences with ratio. I think that since you're the one proposing a novel idea with no backing, the burden of proof should fall upon you.
Serveur: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2024-07-16 09:32:54
Do you have anything to indicate that Sheol-Gaol has level correction or that Gaol bosses are coded as lv99?
I agree that more testing needs to be done to prove Gaol NMs work this way, but you misunderstand. This isn't my claim. Gaol NMs are clearly not lv99 or else you wouldn't be able to tank them. My claim is that they are repurposing the same type of stat bonus system to scale V0-25 without having to make 25 different versions of each NM. The UNM test is simply to prove that such a thing can exist and establish that as the baseline. Again, you can still claim that it's just debuff resistance or something but my model lines up well after you analyze the interaction of DEF ups/downs with my proposed stat adjustment system.
I don't have 6 characters to do the test with myself I will have to find some people willing to spend a few hours doing it with me. These NMs have high enough stats that doing it with just 3 wouldn't be sufficient evidence.
Shiva.Thorny
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2777
By Shiva.Thorny 2024-07-16 09:36:55
Valefor.Prothescar said: »My claim is that they are using the same type of stat bonus system to scale V0-25 without having to make 25 different versions of each
NM. The UNM test is simply to prove that such a thing can exist and establish that as the baseline. Again, you can still claim that it's just debuff resistance or something but my model lines up well after you analyze the interaction of DEF ups/downs with my proposed stat adjustment system.
I understand your claim, but they already have a stat adjustment system they can use to do 25 different versions: level. My assumption is that the reason unity NMs have a secondary stat bonus system in place is because they are not able to use level to tweak their stats automatically. If they are creating an automatic scaling buff where each V level adds a bit to it, presumably they can also set the NMs per level scaling the same way and adjust level. The buff model doesn't provide any benefit here.
Ultimately, your model isn't impossible, but there's been no testing to indicate a reduction to any defense debuffs besides frailty. It isn't impossible that nobody has noticed this, but I would say it is quite a stretch to claim your model is accurate without proving that data point.
Lakshmi.Buukki
Serveur: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2024-07-17 23:25:05
I'm could have sworn I saw a Twitter post from JP where they gave all A3 boss attributes and stats. I'll try to find it
Ok I was way off. Must've been misremembering where I read the information. Only thing I could find was Geriond's estimation a few months ago, unless he's posted it even before then
I did a rough test of V25 Kalunga a long time ago (taking into account the native DT), and from what I remember the defense was somewhere around 3000-3500.
 Asura.Sechs
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10086
By Asura.Sechs 2024-07-18 03:54:31
Valefor.Prothescar said: »since they don't have Germany resistance. Damn, third reich gonna conquer all of us then!
[+]
By K123 2024-07-18 06:29:07
I'm could have sworn I saw a Twitter post from JP where they gave all A3 boss attributes and stats. I'll try to find it
Ok I was way off. Must've been misremembering where I read the information. Only thing I could find was Geriond's estimation a few months ago, unless he's posted it even before then
I did a rough test of V25 Kalunga a long time ago (taking into account the native DT), and from what I remember the defense was somewhere around 3000-3500. If it's a simple 3000-3500 you should be easily able to tell the difference between Armor Break + Dia3 being -45% defense and if that is halved to 22.5%.
Asura.Eiryl
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
By Asura.Eiryl 2024-07-18 08:24:26
Most informative asks are simple tests
It's not fun to just do it and find the answer, when you can *** and fight about it though.
Always overcomplicate it into thinking you need to know exactly how it works when the thing you need is just a yes/no. You only need to know the relative difference of A vs B
You can see the answer with literally 2 bullets. Before and after each (Xdebuff/buff) If you can finally hit the same number after a buff/debuff work backwards. Takes longer to type the answer, than to find the answer.
Serveur: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1786
By Cerberus.Shadowmeld 2024-07-18 09:18:31
Most informative asks are simple tests
It's not fun to just do it and find the answer, when you can *** and fight about it though.
Always overcomplicate it into thinking you need to know exactly how it works when the thing you need is just a yes/no. You only need to know the relative difference of A vs B
You can see the answer with literally 2 bullets. Before and after each (Xdebuff/buff) If you can finally hit the same number after a buff/debuff work backwards. Takes longer to type the answer, than to find the answer.
@Eiryl could have provided the answer twice in the time it took him to type this....
Asura.Saevel
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9910
By Asura.Saevel 2024-07-18 19:06:46
Valefor.Prothescar said: »My claim is that they are using the same type of stat bonus system to scale V0-25 without having to make 25 different versions of each
NM. The UNM test is simply to prove that such a thing can exist and establish that as the baseline. Again, you can still claim that it's just debuff resistance or something but my model lines up well after you analyze the interaction of DEF ups/downs with my proposed stat adjustment system.
I understand your claim, but they already have a stat adjustment system they can use to do 25 different versions: level. My assumption is that the reason unity NMs have a secondary stat bonus system in place is because they are not able to use level to tweak their stats automatically. If they are creating an automatic scaling buff where each V level adds a bit to it, presumably they can also set the NMs per level scaling the same way and adjust level. The buff model doesn't provide any benefit here.
Ultimately, your model isn't impossible, but there's been no testing to indicate a reduction to any defense debuffs besides frailty. It isn't impossible that nobody has noticed this, but I would say it is quite a stretch to claim your model is accurate without proving that data point.
Ummm V0 and V25 are the exact same level...
You can use MobLevel to see it.
https://github.com/DiscipleOfEris/MobLevel
Btw that addon is absolutely amazing
By K123 2024-07-19 04:41:05
What is that level? 135 or 145?
Shiva.Thorny
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2777
By Shiva.Thorny 2024-07-19 07:04:54
I didn't realize you could use widescan there. It's still tangental, the only real takeaway here is an argument that defense- may be less effective because they may use a modifier applied alongside buff calculations in place of actually modifying the mobs' stats on spawn.
To prove either, the obvious first step is to demonstrate the effect on defense-(which is why it was brought up in the first place). Anything else is a waste of time. It's also the only practical difference. It doesn't matter how they implement it server side unless it collides with battle mechanics in a way that alters strategy.
Asura.Saevel
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9910
By Asura.Saevel 2024-07-19 08:31:52
I didn't realize you could use widescan there. It's still tangental, the only real takeaway here is an argument that defense- may be less effective because they may use a modifier applied alongside buff calculations in place of actually modifying the mobs' stats on spawn.
To prove either, the obvious first step is to demonstrate the effect on defense-(which is why it was brought up in the first place). Anything else is a waste of time. It's also the only practical difference. It doesn't matter how they implement it server side unless it collides with battle mechanics in a way that alters strategy.
We already know they gave a stat bonus per Vengeance Level, it's believed to be +4 stat per level. Ongo V0 has 345 INT, V25 has 445 INT, the other stats are much harder to nail down precisely. We know the level doesn't change but it gets an additional +1% SDT per vengeance level. It's attack and defense goes up with each vengeance level, hard to nail down precisely but it's quite easy to see in effect.
Taking all this into consideration, the most likely conclusion is that the Gaol boss's simply get a bonus buff based off VL along with fight mechanics changes.
Asura.Saevel
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9910
By Asura.Saevel 2024-07-19 08:44:40
What is that level? 135 or 145?
The T3's are Level 134, I think Bumba is ~140, the rest are lower. The reason V0 is easy is that their base stats are not high to begin with. The crazy VL bonus's they get plus the adds, ridiculous regen and SJ lockout combine to make the fights annoying.
Shiva.Thorny
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2777
By Shiva.Thorny 2024-07-19 09:14:28
Taking all this into consideration, the most likely conclusion is that the Gaol boss's simply get a bonus buff based off VL along with fight mechanics changes.
I'm not sure if you actually went back and read the discussion, but Prothescar's theory was as follows:
-Gaol Vengeance stat buffs are applied as a percentage modifier calculated in real time.
-As a result, defense+ from the stat buff is calculated in the same step as defense- from player debuffs, causing a reduction in value to defense-.
For example, if the defense buff at V20 is +20%, a defense-25% ability would really be reducing 120% to 95%, rather than 100% to 75%. This would be a substantial reduction to the potency of debuffs, if it were true.
It does not particularly matter if the server code is directly altering the stats in the mob's class instance, or if they are giving it a buff container to hold the stat change. They have the same result to the user, and we have no way of distinguishing which. However, if the stat change is directly conflicting with debuffs, that changes how we should value those debuffs. That would be actionable information.
Again, this is Prothescar's theory, not mine. I am stating that it's pointless to debate about how it's coded, the only thing that actually matters is whether it's conflicting with debuffs.
Serveur: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2024-07-19 09:16:05
Yeah we know their stats scale, the problem is we don't know exactly how it works for atk/def and I don't have the numbers he's asking for as evidence to show how/how much, nor the resources to collect those numbers (it isnt as simple as eiryl thinks to prove how this works, which is the question that needs to be answered).
The reason we don't have a glossary of stats for these NMs is because of how time intensive it is to collect the data, the fact you can't just do it yourself, and the fact that entering these fights isn't free.
To show how the stat scaling works (specifically DEF in this case) requires finding the VIT and DEF of an NM at one V lvl (like 5), then observing the effect on DEF down once you have those numbers to work with. Then repeat again at a higher V level (like 10) to show that the effect on DEF down changed, and by how much. A third sample would let you extrapolate the per level stat bonus, assuming it's linear. Simply showing that they have a DEF bonus isn't helpful, all it does is help.prove my position which benefits no one. I want to collect concrete numbers that can be used for damage calculation.
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 596
By Asura.Melliny 2024-07-19 09:34:01
Quote: For example, if the defense buff at V20 is +20%, a defense-25% ability would really be reducing 120% to 95%, rather than 100% to 75%. This would be a substantial reduction to the potency of debuffs, if it were true.
Even if it did work this way it wouldn't change strategies any would it? You would still want that -25% defense defbuff even if the coding made it less effective simply because the alternative is fighting through 120% defense which is so much worse. The established method for killing each of these mobs is pretty standard now. From personal experience I wouldn't be surprised if it did work the way Prothescar suggested, because these fights have very high DPS checks, but there are only so many tools available for us to overcome them, and the optimized strategies have already been figured out.
Serveur: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2024-07-19 09:35:39
Doubt it would change any strategies, the entire reason I brought this up to begin with is because someone was talking about testing for Gaol NM DEF stats, and to get their actual DEF stats we need to know how their bonus stats work/scale.
Shiva.Thorny
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2777
By Shiva.Thorny 2024-07-19 09:37:35
I don't know that it'd change strategies in that you'd use any defense- you have available, but it might change the perceived value of certain jobs and give reason to examine other setups. The entire discussion stemmed from people questioning their base defense values, and you can't get those without understanding what factors modify it.
Ultimately, more information is still a win for the curious. I've had all of my V25 wins for ages, I expect you and Prothescar have as well. We're here discussing because we find it interesting. If you learn something new and it doesn't change the way you fight, you aren't worse off.
[+]
Carbuncle.Maletaru
Serveur: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2521
By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2024-07-19 09:58:14
I think people are interested in knowing DEF values mostly for PDL reasons and to plug them into DPS calculators.
It might help to know they have 3500 DEF so you can calculate if you have 7800 ATK and they have -35% DEF down, you know you're attack capped or not. Could change songs (possible use of Aria), gear sets, etc.
I think people are interested to know for these reasons, not necessarily to change the entire strategy ala which jobs are used.
By Dodik 2024-07-19 10:20:41
Once again, it seems that the percentage of people with v25 clears is grossly overestimated.
Serveur: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2024-07-19 10:24:14
The percentage of people with V25 clears in the XI playerbase might be overestimated, but the percentage of people who post on this forum who have V25 clears is going to be comparatively high and is the metric being referenced here. More importantly, the information being discussed is much more important for the people who are still going for Gaol clears than the people who have already cleared it so I don't even know what your point is.
Fenrir.Ahlen
Serveur: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 259
By Fenrir.Ahlen 2024-07-19 11:45:25
I really don't think v25 has crazy high defense its more the WS wall + 25 % DT. For example on Mboze we have dia 2 + tenebral crush and we gained a lot from Aria without having a geo. I don't think our attack was over 6k.
Asura.Saevel
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9910
By Asura.Saevel 2024-07-19 11:55:22
-Gaol Vengeance stat buffs are applied as a percentage modifier calculated in real time.
-As a result, defense+ from the stat buff is calculated in the same step as defense- from player debuffs, causing a reduction in value to defense-.
For example, if the defense buff at V20 is +20%, a defense-25% ability would really be reducing 120% to 95%, rather than 100% to 75%. This would be a substantial reduction to the potency of debuffs, if it were true.
It wouldn't matter, these are all multiplicative.
Base Defense: 1000
Defense Buff: 20%
Defense Debuff: 25%
1000 * 1.20 * 0.75 = 900
But you are not comparing Defense before buffs to Defense post debuffs, but defense post buffs to defense post debuffs.
1000 * 1.20 = 1200 (without 25% defense down)
1200 * 0.75 = 900 (with 25% defense down)
If someone is trying to argue that the defense bonus to added to the attack buffs in the same term? I do not think anything else works this way, ie Cocoon vs Frailty.
Fenrir.Ahlen
Serveur: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 259
By Fenrir.Ahlen 2024-07-19 12:03:41
defense down / defense up are additive same term. For example when you have the formor defense down thats crazy high - % def you can counter it with barrier. Same with berserk / defender.
Serveur: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2024-07-19 12:38:05
these are all multiplicative.
false.
If a monster has a +50% innate defense buff, and then uses a 25% defense buff, it doesnt get 1.5 × 1.25 defense, it gets 1.75x defense. a 25% defense down brings that to 1.5x instead of 1.40625x. That's why this matters, and it's why having this type of innate stat boost appears to reduce DEF down potency when in reality it isn't actively reducing anything, it's just a consequence of how the math works
Asura.Saevel
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9910
By Asura.Saevel 2024-07-19 13:08:55
Valefor.Prothescar said: »these are all multiplicative.
false.
If a monster has a +50% innate defense buff, and then uses a 25% defense buff, it doesnt get 1.5 × 1.25 defense, it gets 1.75x defense. a 25% defense down brings that to 1.5x instead of 1.40625x. That's why this matters, and it's why having this type of innate stat boost appears to reduce DEF down potency when in reality it isn't actively reducing anything, it's just a consequence of how the math works
We know bonus's are added together in a term, I thought debuffs were added into their own separate term. Went to dig around and can find no reference to any sort of testing, so likely buried on BG math?
Serveur: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2024-07-19 13:11:24
it's out there somewhere, can also verify it via the methods I posted on the last page or with BST pets who have native species boosts to their stats (they work the same way) if you're skeptical
Hmmm...
Initial Speculations:
Looks like they took components of Walk of Echoes (setting), and Elemental Circles and brought it together.
They must of learned new ideas through the Lilith HTBF and how they can play with those elemental fetters to create unique battlefield environment and apply further stress with them..
Instead of Abyssea, this may be a Walk of Echoes 3.0? Anything iLvl 140+ .. We are ready!
Keep this thread clean, hoping to post critical details and discuss strategies.. Eventually I will create a Node on this with full details.. We can then update BG-Wiki with information that we gather..
Those of you who play on Nasomi.. Please don't post on here, you have a Fafnir to camp.. so get back to work.. This is isn't Bubbly Bernie version 3.0. He will be OG 1.0 forever on Nasomi.. ^_^
Sorry about the delay on updating this as I have been slammed with a lot of work since COVID-19 defense ramp up procedures at my hospital facility.
I have barely had time to update and barely any time to explore this content myself. I appreciate everyone's work so far. I will update this OP Thread with some resources and information that people have found across all servers including videos and screenshots..
Keeping this as a basic vital post highlight source so as new posts with vital information emerges I will just pin it here so it is all in one space and no need to jump around different pages..
To Begin.. The Basic Release Info from SE:
Some First Initial Basic Discoveries:
looks like you enter through Rabao
And you have 30 min to kill a bunch of trash mobs. Probably a boss at the end too.
More Initial Entry Discoveries Pinned:
About to enter Odyssey for the first time.
I'll report back. Setup is PUP, COR, BLU x2, SMN, RDM
Ok, it's looking like they made this content specifically to prevent BLUs from cleaving through this content.
Only main target took full damage. Surrounding targets took 90% reduced damage (main targeet 15k, all others 500 or less)
All mobs can be fully enfeebled (Sleep, Silence, Slow, Para) but standard rules apply for mob types (we saw Skeletons, couldn't Blind them)
I can very easily see a RUN or PLD tank running in and aggroing the group of mobs, with a BRD sleeping them all. 2 DDs kill one by one with proper support. SMN Bloodpacts were doing full damage on single mobs (same rules for BLU applied for SMN when we tried Thunderspark for lulz)
At the end, we found a group of mobs (bats) with a Fetter and a group of untargetable Yagudo. We cleared the bats, then killed the Fetter. Once the Fetter is killed, the Yagudo become targetable. For killing all of the Yagudo, you get 10 Izzat.
In total, we farmed 20 Izzat. We'll try using them tomorrow on boxes, maybe even spawn an NM. After we killed the fetter, a conflux spawned that gave us the opportunity to spawn a monster for 10 Izzat. We were low on time, so we just chose to exit.
Player with Trusts.. First Experience Testimonies:
Went in with trusts. Was able to 1 shot most things with leaden.
Yield: 31 scales and 3 scale boxes (from the chest).
Edit: Chests gave 11, 13 and 16.
More Vital Data Testimonies Discovered:
Random info:
-Killing trash gave izzat and lustreless scales
-Using 10 izzat to pop chest gave 2 scales and a box
-Killing fetter made untargetable yagudo killable, giving 10 izzat killing them all
-Popping NM with 10 izzat from ethereal junction spawned a red morbol that did blood weapon and dropped 2 boxes of scales
-Not sure what items you need to trade to junction to spawn monsters
-Was unable to use the thing at the start after killing fetter/yagudos/morbol, may have to kill all trash? I looked around and missed a pack, timed out before I could kill them all
-Moogle keeps track of trash killed, physis, and chests, and the power of your alter egos while in odyssey (Moogle Mastery)
More Testimonials and Discoveries..
Does anyone know what is needed to clear the RoE for Sheol A?
You need to run (can do on sneak/invi, only trasnparent mobs are true sight/sound) to last floor (A7) using confluxes. On last floor there is Otherworldly Vortex mentioned in RoE quest. You need to touch it (it lets you leave Odyssey too) to complete the quest. Credit for that info goes to Mischief from Bahamut. Here is a video of my first experience with Odyssey:
YouTube Video Placeholder Tried exploring, found more information
- I didn't realize there was a conflux on each floor to move up
- Each floor increases in mob level, capping at 131, and general nastiness of monster family (manticores, giants I remember on last floor)
- Translocators bring you down to previous levels, so the first floor one doesn't work until you find the higher level ones
- One character got stuck on a floor and couldn't move up, nor did they get the RoE objective upon someone else reaching the top
So for soloers, seems like it's best to stick to lower level floor to farm scales, more experienced parties can move up to desired difficulty for more scales. First time in would be best just getting the RoE objective and unlocking translocators.
Initial Video Detailing Climb to 7th floor for easy RoE Completion for Augment Unlock on Gear:
YouTube Video Placeholder
More Info about Moglophone KI's:
Anyways did a solo run this morning and got about 100 scales from just killing trash in first floor. Wondering what others are getting from parting up vs solo.
edit: Also can you hold one Moglophone KI on you, and then have the moogle hold one?
I was wondering this too. I picked up my KI last night and am holding it until later today and going to see if I can run two times in a row.
You can. I used my ki after few hours yesterday and when I checked moogle timer was at 15h, so it was going down while I had KI on me.
More Testimonial Higlights:
Bahamut.Lexouritis said: »Maybe Mischief will post about it, he figured it out on his mule. I'll try and post what i know, but it seems like we skip everything and just kill the fetters, mobs around the fetters, and sometimes the UNM near the fetters. Bahamut.Lexouritis said: »and if u get to the final thing upstairs, personal chest for everyone. Not sure if someone said it already, but you CAN store a KI. So only need to farm every 2 days! I am confused on how people move up using sneak and invisible, in this run I explored everything, vortexes just said "you can't use this yet", or let me summon an NM but never move somewhere else, even after i killed the fetter, all the guards, the NM, opened one chest, and killed about 90% of all the mobs. If anybody can spot where in this video I should have been able to "move up" it would really help: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5i9GhE5nO3I
thanks At the mandies in your run. Just hug left wall and you'll find it. It took me a while to find the first flux as well, but the rest were less "hidden". A video was posted a couple pages ago showing the route.
YouTube Video Placeholder Bahamut.Lexouritis said: »vortexes just said "you can't use this yet" Need to click Shimmering lights for access to some portals or not have aggro iirc. I may be wrong though Bahamut.Lexouritis said: » It rewarded me again with a box + 50k gil.
did u kill a fetter? Seems like 50k per Fetter and 1 box per fetter (per character). The big Box from RoE seems to be just 1 time thing. The smaller boxes seem to be fetter based?
Killing all 4 fetters netted us about ~70 scales per run per person after touching otherworldy vortex.
Edit: With RoE quest being completed in a run, was more like 110-130. So how many scales is it per upgrade? Didn’t see on Bg-wiki and don’t feel like shifting through posts on here. Should be just under 12 stacks to max. Based on scales only being worth 5rp instead of 10 :/ Clip to the top and nab the box, in and out, 5 minute adventure.
For realsies? SE let content like that out after the mass-ban clipping/duping-alex adventures get onto the live server? Thought they learned their lesson since the AMAN trove boxes can't be scouted via Hex IDs. The box he means is the one from completing the RoE once. You can walk to it in 6-7 mins without speed hacks anyway. The big deal about completing the RoE is you can start augmenting your gear at that point. Well if dude already finished a piece few days after update, there isnt much time gate here it seems.
Probably just the appetitizer was released (im on a work trip, cant "enjoy" the new content till weekend...)
He finished because he bought scales or have legion of mules. Regular player with 1 account will need realistically around 10-14 days for one piece farming daily. Traded 5 Emperor arthro shells to vortex (dunno how many it took from inventory, might have only taken 1 of the 5). Summoned Brachys, a crab that had a high ass counter rate and instantly killed me on my thf in one attack round. 500+ damage counters with no DT set. Likely not advisable to spawn mobs solo with trusts. Bahamut.Lexouritis said: »Personal box at the end when touching Otherworldy Vortex for each FETTER you kill, for all party members. If u kill all 4 fetters AND EVERYTHING around them it seems you will get 4 boxes.
~edited phrasing
So looks like if you solo, go for trash and farm with th4+ and for group you kill featers and go touch otherwordly.
Unless maybe kill 2 featers solo and go to the top? You could open 2 chests that way and get 2 boxes. So in theory maybe even get 4 chests and some scales from farming. Bahamut.Lexouritis said: »
Personal box at the end when touching Otherworldy Vortex for each FETTER you kill, for all party members. If u kill all 4 fetters AND EVERYTHING around them it seems you will get 4 boxes.
~edited phrasing
So looks like if you solo, go for trash and farm with th4+ and for group you kill fetters and go touch otherwordly.
Unless maybe kill 2 fetters solo and go to the top? You could open 2 chests that way and get 2 boxes. So in theory maybe even get 4 chests and some scales from farming.
I'm not sure if you need to just kill the fetters or the fetters + all the semi-invisible beastmen around the fetters.
It's possible to kill a fetter without aggro from the semi invisible beastmen that are sight aggro like Yagudo and Orcs. I'm assuming Quadav will sound aggro which makes them easier to gather in a group.
On the first day, when I duo'd with my cousin on RUN and me on COR with a THF4 set, we killed 1 fetter but stopped killing the semi-invisible beastmen because they were not dropping anything. Not all of the beastmen aggro'd. Only the Yagudo beastmen that were in sight of us or each other aggro'd us. Care needs to be taken by support in this case as support will get aggro'd if they rush in too early before the tank has claim on everything. These mobs hit very hard.
Definitely go in with at least th4 if solo farming just trash mobs.
Go in with a full, balanced party to maximize drops from fetters. The fetters are easy to kill. The beastmen hit hard and have a little more hp than common trash mobs. Helps to sleep them too as they can easily overwhelm even the toughest of tanks. Me and a group of peeps went in yesterday, to do some testing.
Killing a fetter + beastman group rewards 10 izzat, no special drops were seen, we did not have a thief, just a range using bounty shot.
Gonna test farm some nms tonight. i tried to spawn 1 today with my alt using unity items, turns out 1 is not enough. My second run of this is probably the best I can do.
Went in, killed all normal monsters, Feters and Beastmen, killed all of the Yaguado. I had 20 Izzat, spawn a Unity NM Which was a Sporebat type mob that died in a 4 step SC. This NM used Blood WEapon, the NM I tried yesterday used 100 fists and rek'd me.
I got 90 Izzat from Monsters and 22 from the 2 boxes that I got from NM and a chest I used them on. The only thing I didn't do on Floor 1 was spawn the Junction that said "Item can be used to pop something here" I had 3 Sarama Hides, 2 Thuban Things and neither worked, nor did a combination of them work.
All of my drops were done with TH2 from Gear. Few unanswered questions:
How is the augmentation to Trust power in Odyssey earned? I believe the requirement must be more than simply killing sets of trash mobs and making it to the otherworldly at the end.
Rewards upon reaching end were:
360k gil from a group that killed everything on first floor, 2 NM's popped.
100k gil for solo killing 2 groups (4 izzat) worth of scrubs and reaching end.
On another run I also got 100k gil for solo killing more scrubs (4 sets I think. Seems like the NMs from either spawn point will be one of the 119/122 unity NMs with similar mechanics, but not exactly the same as my morbol didn't go through 3 stages and only did blood weapon. May be a good ideal to either focus on repeatedly killing one to raise its kill count for the moogle or killing all of them at least once. Can't wait for Pandemonium Warden v3 in the future lol Yep. Surprised the hell out of us.
But as I said I was getting 100k for just clearing a couple of easy rooms and heading for the exit solo for the RoE.
Thinking about it, we did a bit more than the first floor full clear on that run, did a second fetter and agon mobs and popped another NM at least. spawn a Unity NM Which was a Sporebat type mob
What method did you use to spawn this nm?
So there seems to be 2 spawn methods, Unity Item (I think 5 minimum) or Izzat once you have killed a fetter.
In terms of the invisible mobs I don't know if its a coincidence or not but every time they have aggro'd they go after my GEO and no other character. Dunno if the bubble is causing something funky to happen.
It should be possible, to kill fetters on all floors + escape as low as 3 man, I cleared everything in my run and had about 3 minutes to spare but a lot of it was goofing about looking at chests etc. I'd say 4 man would be the most optimal though as you can't really AOE.
Only flaw would be is that the fetters on floors seem to be placed randomly so you could get screwed over on travel times but imagine if you wanted to eat some taco's and take that risk you could and do it no probs. My second run experience soloing on COR with trusts:
Leaden Salute all the things
Tact/Sam with august, ygnas, monb, star sybill, koru
Killed everything on floor 1 and 4 groups on floor 2
30 izzat but could only find 2 chests to open
both chests only dropped 1 box each so was a little unlucky
TH4
Ended up with 135 scales. Could have been alot higher if I found a third chest and if the chests dropped more than 1 box each.
(I also got a message saying 'moogle magic II' when I killed a regular enemy. Must be to do with the total amount of things killed.) Leviathan.Kingkitt said: »My findings thus far:
As stated multiples times already here, you can sneak/invisible to maneuver around the mobs here. However..
The invisible mobs appear true sight and/or sound, so you have to be cautious of them.
Appears that killing fetters gives personal loot. We all got a box.
You can solo for the RoE if you want following the guidlines above.
Competing RoE gives you 1 large box.
Clear is NOT party wide and each person must touch it individually for credit. (Also recieved 60k gil, we cleared 1 fetter/quadavs, and the mob family near it)
Didn't notice until after fetter and invisible mobs were dead, but one or the other gave 10 izzat.
Have tried a few different unity mats for unm 119/122 and traded 5 to pop a NM. NM that spawned was of the same mob family as items traded. Tonight ill be going in with my COR GEO duo. How do you do the fetters? Kill the surrounding mobs then attack the fetter while trusts keep you alive with invisible beastmen smacking you? Then the beastmen?
Pull and kill regular mobs, until you see opportunity where nothing is close to fetter (there is always a moment when there is max 1 mob close to it at some point). Kill fetter fast (It's easy to kill. One good 2 step SC will kill it), then kill remaining mobs. I wouldn't try to aggro more than few mobs in general when solo or duoboxing, especially if you dont have Malignance set on COR. Something of note to add was that our rng and cor were doing 0 dmg to the fetter from distance and had to move much closer to do any damage. This may relate to how aoe does much reduced damage. Max gil reward is higher than we thought, just got 495k from today's run.
Btw force popping nm's uses a single UNM mat, not 5. And they cannot be reused within the same run. Spawning NM appears to be unrelated to what you use to pop.
So far NM's we faced: Tipuli(fly),Aegupius,harpe(weapon),leucippe and physis (morbol).
Moogle mastery ranks up as you kill stuff, @287 kills, 8x NM and 2 chests we at Mastery III. Max gil reward is higher than we thought, just got 495k from today's run.
Btw force popping nm's uses a single UNM mat, not 5. And they cannot be reused within the same run. Spawning NM appears to be unrelated to what you use to pop.
So far NM's we faced: Tipuli(fly),Aegupius,harpe(weapon),leucippe and physis (morbol).
Moogle mastery ranks up as you kill stuff, @287 kills, 8x NM and 2 chests we at Mastery III.
Do you need to touch the flux on the top floor to get the gil? Or when does the gil actually get distributed to you? Yes, you have to leave personally to get it, and as always if other party members are fighting its locked out. My second run experience soloing on COR with trusts:
Leaden Salute all the things
Tact/Sam with august, ygnas, monb, star sybill, koru
Killed everything on floor 1 and 4 groups on floor 2
30 izzat but could only find 2 chests to open
both chests only dropped 1 box each so was a little unlucky
TH4
Ended up with 135 scales. Could have been alot higher if I found a third chest and if the chests dropped more than 1 box each.
(I also got a message saying 'moogle magic II' when I killed a regular enemy. Must be to do with the total amount of things killed.)
Tonight ill be going in with my COR GEO duo. How do you do the fetters? Kill the surrounding mobs then attack the fetter while trusts keep you alive with invisible beastmen smacking you? Then the beastmen?
Pull/kill regular mobs with ranged attack. Run in to fetter with max 1 or 2 shadows aggro. Kill fetter > kill the rest. Just look out what you aggro. Aggroing BLM mob that stand close to middle will probably result in mass link eventually. Regular mobs dont link at all, but transparent mobs (before and after killing fetter) do. Each flux takes you to a higher floor. There are 7 floors with the 7th floors flux being the exit and the RoE objective. Each flux takes you to a higher floor. There are 7 floors with the 7th floors flux being the exit and the RoE objective. Not sure if it was mentioned, but looks like you can't pop the same NM twice from UNM mats in the same run. Popped once on first floor, and later on the 4th floor it gave a message saying we couldn't pop the same NM again. Sharing Shamgi's notes posted in the BST forum for relevant details:
Ok, just went into an Odyssey and discovered some things:
1. You can charm things in there. Things seemed to be fairly simple to charm, and Charm+ gear meant that my dhalmel stayed charmed 15+ minutes.
2.Charmed pets seem to be quite strong. Beyond the normal HP, they seemed to have fairly high damage, hitting other mobs in their own pack for 4-600 a swing, with crits as high as 900. My Dhalmel once used Berserk and those numbers got pretty big, same with their Sound Wave move. My record was a crit for 1500 or so. This is with NQ food and no other pet related buffs. I had one crawler end up at 74% when it killed another crawler in the pack, likely benefiting from all the DA and Haste.
3. Pets seem quite effective at killing the Halos. They hit hard already, but notably, they aggro nothing, not even the Beastmen around the Halos when doing so. The Halo produces a damaging AOE every couple of seconds that was hitting for 200 or so, but the pet, with it's 40k+ HP, doesn't care at all. Indeed, I left the pet to it's own devices and killed other packs with trusts while it worked the halo down itself, which actually seemed quite nice. When it died, the Orcs around it didn't aggro, so it was easy to pull them one by one, as they don't link either.
4. Mob spawns are random, which can hurt this strat, but from two runs a majority of the packs seem charmable, and many of them are often pretty powerful. Given the strat above, I feel like a monk style pet would be best here.
Overall, I'm super interested in trying this with a full group where you can use the pet to deal with adds while you work on a pack yourself and to safely kill Halos while you clear other things.
One issue was Sic, the recast was way worse than I remembered, and my lua isn't set up at all to deal with it. My best guess is to just set up my gearswap to always produce a physical damage set for Sic and then just use pets who focus physical damage with their TP moves. If it's a buff move, then no big deal, if it's physical then it's the right set. They do link, my experience has been all sight linking though (fought orcs and yags so far). Do not link with the Fetter though, found this out by trying to range attack the fetter down, only to realize the fetter is immune to auto-range attacks. They do link, my experience has been all sight linking though (fought orcs and yags so far).
Well its kinda expected. Orc, Yagudo and Goblins are all sight aggro/link. Quadavs are sound aggro/link and it's how they are in Odyssey too. They arent immune to ranged attacks you just need to be stood in the fetter to do damage.
So not immune to ranged attacks, but immune to any attacks from a range. XD As with all farming things it's more efficient to solo, if the kill speed is high, like 119 content. 6 solos have 6x more chances for boxes.
Luck's definitely a factor; and yeah I think solo probably is best.
I think a lot of it has to do with people finding each other, people needing to sneak/invis themselves, and having to stagger the flux (so it doesn't glitch out). Was a lot of wasted time there.
Was just curious if other groups were experiencing it as well. Went in as Pup/Whm. Killed 3 Fetters, champion NM on floor 7 after fetter, and a few other random mobs using automaton only.
Literally no drops + exit only gave me 5k gil.
I wonder if you need to take an action on the fetters or something yourself before you can get drops or credit for killing them. Went in as Pup/Whm. Killed 3 Fetters, champion NM on floor 7 after fetter, and a few other random mobs using automaton only.
Literally no drops + exit only gave me 5k gil.
I wonder if you need to take an action on the fetters or something yourself before you can get drops or credit for killing them. As group you are suppose to kill Fetter at floor 1,3,5 and 7 and run to otherworldy vortex at the end. You should get 4 PERSONAL box from otherworldy that way and I think one more personal box from killing beastman kings at floor 7 (they are around Fetter there).
So thats 5 personal chests
At least 40 Izzat to open chests
Probably at least 40 single scales from killing trash around fetters if you take at least TH4 with you.
Small boxes are on avg around 13 scales?
So probably around 70-80 scales at least per person, maybe more if you have time to farm more.
Very good geared solo player on specific job like COR, can get more with luck, but it might be other bonuses from killing fetters and NMs that we might dont know about. Went in as Pup/Whm. Killed 3 Fetters, champion NM on floor 7 after fetter, and a few other random mobs using automaton only.
Literally no drops + exit only gave me 5k gil.
I wonder if you need to take an action on the fetters or something yourself before you can get drops or credit for killing them.
No, you need to kill Fetter AND beastman mobs around it to get credit for personal box at the end and 10 Izzat. I assume you killed only Fetters. Bahamut.Lexouritis said: »THF can pick the locks/chests in odyssey, in case no one mentioned, or knows about it yet. However some times mimic will pop out. Unsure how hard they are, as it opens with deathtrap, and his mule has sparks gear (and it got one shot). Credit goes to mischief
"Either gave a 'however it has no effect' message and consumed the tool, opened the chest, or a mimic popped out" I made a quick map of Odyssey to make ease to hit the fluxes.
Etheral Junctions, Fetters and camps change apparently random.
EDIT: all maps have North heading the upper border.
Aegypius NM:
Bird
Popped using 5 Abyssdiver feathers
Uses Broadside Barrage and Damnation Dive
Uses Perfect Dodge at low HP and gains an Encumbrance aura that stays for the rest of the fight Carbuncle.Papesse said: »Beware of the Treant NM Ptelea and its dangerous Leafstorm AoE. Leafstorm is hybrid wind based. It can crit, miss, be absorbed by shadows and Elemental Sforzo. One For All, Gelus Valiance and Baraero substantially reduce damage. As far as getting these telepoints, mentioned on BGwiki's Odyssey page that you're supposed to be able to travel between to get to further levels of Odyssey, does anyone have any info on the requirements to gain access to these? Do you have to kill all of the fetters to go up a floor? Also, has anyone tried going in with a group of six and then disbanding and everyone using their own trusts to expediate the process of both killing enemies on every floor, taking care of all the fetters on a floor and then popping the nm's so that you might progress to these tele-points if those happened to be the requirements? I know some players might have found that they can farm higher amounts of the Lustreless Scales solo rather than teaming up but if you go in with 6 and then make you're own parties with trusts.. and there are multiple telepoints with up to say 15 sets of mobs and fetters then the possibility of having a high return still might be worth it. Another thing i noticed maybe means nothing but i saw some pixels floating out of nowhere that seemed like a mobs name. Maybe a glitch? Or the others maps? Or a random mob?
 I'm sure people regularly killing fluxes/beastmen already knew this, but AoEs that would have hit the untargettable/invisible beastmen will still generate enmity on them, so people should watch for that if they're sleepgaing or horde lullabying fodder. We spawned an NM in today's run.
Brachys: Crab NM (PLD/MNK)
Had a pretty decent (25-30%) Counter rate. Bubble Curtain's Shell effect reduced enspell (RDM with Crocea Mors) dmg to 0 unless it was dispelled. Used Invincible at 25%. Easily landed enfeebles (Slow, Para, Blind, Frazzle, Distract) Pretty easy fight overall.
It was spawned using 10 Izzat after we killed Fetter + Beastmen mobs surrounding it. Asura.Ladyofhonor said: »I have Moogle Mastery III, not sure what's doing it. Status report has:
Nostos killed: 306
Damysus: 2
Salmandra: 2
Cynara: 1
Chests: 3
Seems I ranked up when I killed an Agon Bruiser. The augment system is “tiered”. I’m working on my alts Emeici +1.
Ranks 1-5 give +2 damage. Ranks 6-10 give +2 damage, +3 acc/macc. I assume ranks 11-15 give +2 damage, +3 acc/macc, +2 crit rate.
That’s a neat way to do it, it incentivizes the more expensive ranks. Just had a bad solo experience... turns our not all popped NM's are soloable. Do not recommend popping the nm's for 10 izzat.
Got a cactus who would constantly triple attack and did 600 normal / 1200 crit per attack round. August got insta-KO then healer then myself within 7 seconds. YouTube Video Placeholder
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