Yea I agree V25 bumba is gonna be the new AV, but then that seems alot more reasonable for the T3s, a bad comp to do first 25%, a 2nd group to kill that add, then your normal v20 setup to kill boss in last fight.
Of course the ws wall is still there so theres that to work around, probably have to do a little more damage with groups 1 and 2 then.
The Odyssey - || Strategy And Discussion ||
The Odyssey - || Strategy and Discussion ||
Quote:
I think WS nerf is a little heavy handed.
It's artificial difficulty, and that's why I don't like it. I'm fine with them forcing us to kill adds and making the fight's challenging though. Give us deadly attacks and mobs with tons of HP and big obstacles and tons of adds or w/e and I'm all over it. But Odyssey plays by rules that aren't present in any other part of the game. You can't use your sub job, you can't use multiple of the same job, you can't use the same job twice, and now the weaponskill wall hamstrings melee damage. That's just cheap design if you ask me. The way they chose to force the content to be challenging is the annoying part here.
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Maybe wait until someone actually gets to T3 before we assume the WS wall is present in the exact same manner there. For that matter, it's entirely possible the WS wall itself has undiscovered mechanics or is implemented differently here from sortie. The earlier variant of the 'WS wall' used in HTBC and Dyna-D was reduced by performing different actions, including things like steps and debuffs that can be added in without a huge change to strategy.
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Apologies in advance if this has been asked already, but is the ws wall only for physical damage or all ws types?
Edit: NVM, found Melliny's post a few pages back:
"ANY weaponskill activates the wall. It's completely different from the multiple uses of the same weaponskill nerf you see in dynamis. The sortie basement bosses only allow one full powered weaponskill every 10 seconds."
Thanks.
Edit: NVM, found Melliny's post a few pages back:
"ANY weaponskill activates the wall. It's completely different from the multiple uses of the same weaponskill nerf you see in dynamis. The sortie basement bosses only allow one full powered weaponskill every 10 seconds."
Thanks.
All weaponskill types. The weaponskill wall that was implemented on the sortie basemenet bosses just flat nerfs weaponskill damage period. Once a weaponskill is used there is a 10 second window where every further weaponskill of any type from any player is nerfed by something like 90%. There is a reason we use exclusively manaburn strategies on sortie now.... whereas we melee burned the original sector with savage spam.
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Asura.Melliny said: »
That's just cheap design if you ask me.
They let us fight the same boss 3 different times and no repeat jobs so we'd use the job adjustments they took the time to do and wardrobes they made available.
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You didn't think they went through all of the trouble to include Porter Moogles in Gaol for nothing, did you? You're going to play multiple jobs at a high level whether you like it or not, else just ignore the content. Yes, they are forcing people to be job-diverse for once.
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Well looks like all the people crying about Savage spam got their wish granted by SE.
I wonder how long it'll take before the first Bumba clear happens.
If SE is gonna make us use the whole buffalo with multiple entries to beat the bosses that's some pretty crazy stuff. But hot damn is that overly restrictive of most groups to have 12-18 uniquely geared jobs across 6 characters without all the niche jobs being stuck on 1 or 2 people.
Will be interesting to see solutions to these new problems. I am excited to see what crazy stuff Xolla's group comes up with and how much it differs from what the NA groups do.
I wonder how long it'll take before the first Bumba clear happens.
If SE is gonna make us use the whole buffalo with multiple entries to beat the bosses that's some pretty crazy stuff. But hot damn is that overly restrictive of most groups to have 12-18 uniquely geared jobs across 6 characters without all the niche jobs being stuck on 1 or 2 people.
Will be interesting to see solutions to these new problems. I am excited to see what crazy stuff Xolla's group comes up with and how much it differs from what the NA groups do.
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Serjero said: »
I wonder how long it'll take before the first Bumba clear happens.
Not for a long time, mostly cause it's proc is random and everyone dies if they don't proc it within a few seconds.
Honestly everything else with Bumba is dealable, it's the "random proc in 10s or take 4000 damage" issue. Like you need to hit Bumba to attempt to proc Bumba, but if you hit Bumba then it kills you. That is the entire reason we had a "saveage and pray the proc is crits" strategy in the first place.
Serjero said: »
I am excited to see what crazy stuff Xolla's group comes up with and how much it differs from what the NA groups do.
Yeah I wanted to say Xolla will come up with strategy for Bumba R30 in few weeks and Saevel will score another 180 and start preaching how easy it is again :D
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Asura.Saevel said: »
Serjero said: »
I wonder how long it'll take before the first Bumba clear happens.
Not for a long time, mostly cause it's proc is random and everyone dies if they don't proc it within a few seconds.
Honestly everything else with Bumba is dealable, it's the "random proc in 10s or take 4000 damage" issue. Like you need to hit Bumba to attempt to proc Bumba, but if you hit Bumba then it hills you. That is the entire reason we had a "saveage and pray the proc is crits" strategy in the first place.
It was 4 sec, because 5 people were zerging it. Take some 75 subtle blow ONE person and make crit and WS on it. If none will proc red, then you know it's not crit or WS in the same time. At this point you want to make 3 step and magic burst it. Xolla or someone else from JP community were holding Bumba until time out. It wont kill you in 4 sec, if you play it safe.
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I know a few people are saying this is SEs way of forcing the community into MB parties.
But there are NMs resistant to magic damage. Think of Arebati. As I recall my groups first clear was both Cor and Rng going max damage WS, full buffs, max randoms and WC resets and sometimes you’ll kill it before time out.
Let’s now add another add, more hp, more stats, and a WS wall as a cherry on top.
Edit: and regen. Jesus.
But there are NMs resistant to magic damage. Think of Arebati. As I recall my groups first clear was both Cor and Rng going max damage WS, full buffs, max randoms and WC resets and sometimes you’ll kill it before time out.
Let’s now add another add, more hp, more stats, and a WS wall as a cherry on top.
Edit: and regen. Jesus.
It's not specifically to get you back to MB parties.
It's more to slow the game down. You can't even skillchain. The window to skillchain is smaller than the nerf window. They're really just floundering and doing everything possible to avoid just fixing the game properly.
We've tried nothing and we're out of ideas.
It's more to slow the game down. You can't even skillchain. The window to skillchain is smaller than the nerf window. They're really just floundering and doing everything possible to avoid just fixing the game properly.
We've tried nothing and we're out of ideas.
Asura.Eiryl said: »
We've tried nothing and we're out of ideas.
They've tried nothing everything works.
SimonSes said: »
Asura.Saevel said: »
Serjero said: »
I wonder how long it'll take before the first Bumba clear happens.
Not for a long time, mostly cause it's proc is random and everyone dies if they don't proc it within a few seconds.
Honestly everything else with Bumba is dealable, it's the "random proc in 10s or take 4000 damage" issue. Like you need to hit Bumba to attempt to proc Bumba, but if you hit Bumba then it hills you. That is the entire reason we had a "saveage and pray the proc is crits" strategy in the first place.
It was 4 sec, because 5 people were zerging it. Take some 75 subtle blow ONE person and make crit and WS on it. If none will proc red, then you know it's not crit or WS in the same time. At this point you want to make 3 step and magic burst it. Xolla or someone else from JP community were holding Bumba until time out. It wont kill you in 4 sec, if you play it safe.
Like I have said many many times before, we did this with MNK doing a simple 3 step SC which includes Victory Smite, with the WHM or GEO bursting light. This covers every single possible proc, unless VS somehow does not crit (which you can save Focus for), so you can see the red proc. If you can't get Blue with a single MNK, you know the method is same time WS simply by process of elimination.
I'm not saying V25 is going to be a piece of cake, but the exaggerated predictions based on first-day reports where nobody has even reached Bumba are are silly to say the least.
Asura.Eiryl said: »
It's not specifically to get you back to MB parties.
It's more to slow the game down. You can't even skillchain. The window to skillchain is smaller than the nerf window. They're really just floundering and doing everything possible to avoid just fixing the game properly.
We've tried nothing and we're out of ideas.
It's more to slow the game down. You can't even skillchain. The window to skillchain is smaller than the nerf window. They're really just floundering and doing everything possible to avoid just fixing the game properly.
We've tried nothing and we're out of ideas.
You guys are thinking too much like players and not enough like a business. SE is doing all of these things for one simple bottom line: profitability. There is no longevity if you can beat the entire game with one job and a sword. They want you playing more jobs and collecting more gear and leveling higher, not because they want to reward us as players, but because it simply keeps us playing longer. It really is that simple.
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Just remember, guys can win with PUP and the power of positive thinking and Friendship.
If they wanted a real time extender they could remove the R tag from Nyame and suddenly people will make 2-3 full sets of it which requires a substantial amount of time for segments and RP farm.
They could also scale HP or add defense/DT directly to the mob instead of making a WS wall, they could create a higher DPS check that tests players so that MLs are necessary to hit those thresholds. They could do a lot of things, but they choose to be directly punishing to the playerbase instead of incorporating what players were naturally drawn to and make adjustments therein.
After a certain point it doesn't just feel like business decisions to extend the games life. It feels like targeted condemnation and contempt towards the playerbase. When they start creating content that less than 1% of players will be able to do, that's not opening up another 50% of the game to encourage players to try out. That's just cutting off an entire content block for 99% of your players.
They could also scale HP or add defense/DT directly to the mob instead of making a WS wall, they could create a higher DPS check that tests players so that MLs are necessary to hit those thresholds. They could do a lot of things, but they choose to be directly punishing to the playerbase instead of incorporating what players were naturally drawn to and make adjustments therein.
After a certain point it doesn't just feel like business decisions to extend the games life. It feels like targeted condemnation and contempt towards the playerbase. When they start creating content that less than 1% of players will be able to do, that's not opening up another 50% of the game to encourage players to try out. That's just cutting off an entire content block for 99% of your players.
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Serjero said: »
They could do a lot of things, but they choose to be directly punishing to the playerbase instead of incorporating what players were naturally drawn to and make adjustments therein.
still thinking like a player.
Serjero said: »
After a certain point it doesn't just feel like business decisions to extend the games life. It feels like targeted condemnation and contempt towards the playerbase.
what's the difference?
Serjero said: »
When they start creating content that less than 1% of players will be able to do, that's not opening up another 50% of the game to encourage players to try out. That's just cutting off an entire content block for 99% of your players.
if 99% of the players walked away from FFXI they wouldn't dare do what you are suggesting they are doing. But they're going to stay here, so this is not a serious concern for SE to be frank. If mass numbers of people quit FFXI after Odyssey then they would have to answer for the losses in some way. But it never happened in large numbers, so they don't need to.
Anyways, they do have content geared towards a wider variety of players, so that's still playable for many. Gaol V25 is just not one of them. At the very least, players can climb the "boards" challenging themselves to new difficulties, and if they can't do it, they can't do it. If I cannot clear Bumba V25 or even Ngai V25, I don't even deserve the gear at all and I'm completely ok with that.
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How realistic is it for a PUP using OD to do close to 25% of the NMs HP? Wouldn't work for every fight obviously, but I could see a lot of fights that would be easier to setup if a PUP could burn that 25% to get the first add on your first Moglophone. PUP could hold NM afterwards while everyone else kills the add. Don't have or know a well geared PUP to know if this is an option or not.
Leviathan.Boposhopo said: »
How realistic is it for a PUP using OD to do close to 25% of the NMs HP? Wouldn't work for every fight obviously, but I could see a lot of fights that would be easier to setup if a PUP could burn that 25% to get the first add on your first Moglophone. PUP could hold NM afterwards while everyone else kills the add. Don't have or know a well geared PUP to know if this is an option or not.
Maybe. On V20 Hanwen I was able to do only like 7%, but with just Trusts and I would consider it the worst A2, because of guard and counters.
I think the core for ultimate B team is PUP, BST, DNC, RDM
PUP OD and tank the boss, BoxStep+Corrosive+DiaIII is 76% def down.
Killer Instinct, Distract III and Quickstep are sufficient to cap accuracy, HasteII+HasteSamba is sufficient haste. RDM debuffs both MB and add to make it safer and easier to manage.
GEO+PLD would probably best to finish this setup. Duban PLD can now cap shield block on all those NMs and can self heal. Geo could help to cap haste and attack.
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Serjero said: »
After a certain point it doesn't just feel like business decisions to extend the games life. It feels like targeted condemnation and contempt towards the playerbase. When they start creating content that less than 1% of players will be able to do, that's not opening up another 50% of the game to encourage players to try out. That's just cutting off an entire content block for 99% of your players.
What happens is SE releases content with giant Moves of Great Dickness, then observes as we find ways to dodge those wrenches. Afterwards they design the next batch of content to invalidate those dodges, requiring us to find new ways to dodge the new *** Wrenches they were throwing.
The WS wall in Sortie basement was a result of everyone using WS spam to kill the four regular bosses and not deal with the Moves of Great Dickness. They just copied that mechanic to Oyssea and it'll likely also be in the next content that is created. It's like how they nerf GEO bubbles or give mobs massive "I Win buttons".
Asura.Saevel said: »
The WS wall in Sortie basement was a result of everyone using WS spam to kill the four regular bosses and not deal with the Moves of Great Dickness. They just copied that mechanic to Oyssea and it'll likely also be in the next content that is created. It's like how they nerf GEO bubbles or give mobs massive "I Win buttons".
I like it, I was always a massive fan of white damage builds :)
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So SE went the Fake inflated difficulty route this round and pretended they created hard content by just changing the rules around to the point the content isn't do-able by 98% of the community in hopes they play FF14. lulz
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The Nuke wall and BP wall welcome the WS wall!
Equality is pretty grand.
Equality is pretty grand.
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Bismarck.Nickeny said: »
the content isn't do-able by 98% of the community in hopes they play FF14.
You joke, lol. Might be some truth to it.
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