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That impeachment thing....
Bahamut.Ravael
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13638
By Bahamut.Ravael 2019-12-10 15:32:11
There are 15k+ murders annually in the US, but a person charged with that crime cannot use the defense that others are murdering too.
Thanks, Sherlock, but you're missing the point again. The argument is about Shi's faulty claim that the Democrats are impeaching out of duty instead of for political reasons. Which, on one hand, is hilariously naive, and on the other hand is disproven by the way they have handled situations where their own people committed similar offenses.
I wasn't referring to the discussion between you and Shi, nor do I care. I was referring to your claim that 'Trump hasn't obstructed any more than the last president' which isn't a legitimate defense in the impeachment process. Are you able to carry on a discussion minus the descriptive name calling? I know you are frustrated, but that behavior adds nothing of substance.
?
When you add something of substance to a conversation, I will consider your request. For example, everything I posted was in direct reference to Shi's claim. I was not making the statement as an overall defense against impeachment. You cherry-picked a statement and made an incredibly obvious point that added nothing to the actual discussion, as evidenced by the fact that you failed yet again to quote a complete chain before responding to it.
No, I quoted the entire chain, everything in context...look again. Help me understand though, the comment 'Trump hasn't obstructed any more than the last president' means one thing in your conversation with Shi, yet something different when said to someone else? I just want to get it correct, so I can post up to your standards. Thanks!
I can't break down context for everything I say in such a way that everyone will understand. It's a matter of social intelligence. I would only suggest that you try to grasp the big picture of the discussion instead of responding to snipped-out bits.
That being said, I'll break it down this once to be nice. The quote chain I was referring to when I said that you failed to quote a college chain is here. As for my statements meaning different things at different times? They don't. That's a complete mischaracterization of what occurred. It's a non-sequitur (Google it).
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Bahamut.Ravael
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13638
By Bahamut.Ravael 2019-12-10 15:35:19
Complete chain, not college chain. Swype strikes again.
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Odin.Slore
Serveur: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1350
By Odin.Slore 2019-12-10 15:59:27
One day you are going to shock me and provide a source for all the sources you ask. Complete CNN timeline.
Fast and Furious timeline
Quote: June 20, 2012 - Republicans on the House Oversight Committee recommend that Holder be cited for contempt of Congress for failing to turn over documents relating to Fast and Furious. They make the recommendation after President Barack Obama asserts executive privilege over some documents sought by the committee.
If I could bold this twice I would.
Odin.Slore
Serveur: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1350
By Odin.Slore 2019-12-10 16:01:37
Ragnarok.Ozment
Serveur: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1116
By Ragnarok.Ozment 2019-12-10 17:28:51
I can't break down context for everything I say in such a way that everyone will understand. It's a matter of social intelligence. I would only suggest that you try to grasp the big picture of the discussion instead of responding to snipped-out bits.
But it's the snipped out bits that are typically erroneous, and should be corrected...such as in this case.
That being said, I'll break it down this once to be nice. The quote chain I was referring to when I said that you failed to quote a college chain is here.
...but that was everything, nothing was edited out of the chain. I hit the quote button and didn't remove anything.
As for my statements meaning different things at different times? They don't.
Thank you, that precisely answers my question. 'Trump hasn't obstructed any more than the last president' holds the same meaning in either context you made with regards to the impeachment proceedings.
Sorry for quoting just your last comment, but I feel quoting everything would have been too messy. I was considering changing your 'college' to 'complete' during this post, but didn't want to show you any disrespect. Neither of us should be changing each other's posts entirely, don't you agree?
Bahamut.Ravael
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13638
By Bahamut.Ravael 2019-12-10 18:18:57
...but that was everything, nothing was edited out of the chain. I hit the quote button and didn't remove anything.
No, no you didn't. Bro, wow. Come on, I'm trying to work with you here. I linked it and everything. FOCUS. You can do this. Look at the difference in content between my post and your reply.
You snipped it up for no reason. It wasn't erroneous, it wasn't hurting your widdle feelings, and for some reason you can't even remember that you did it. I can't parse out the mountain of erroneous crap that you say, so let's just get past this one thing and we'll see where we go from here. FOCUS.
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Ragnarok.Ozment
Serveur: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1116
By Ragnarok.Ozment 2019-12-10 18:45:24
Ahhh...I see it now! You were referring to these, correct? We were discussing HuffPo and their potentially facts I don't like on the impeachment announcement this morning at 9am? Sorry, it took me a bit.
My post.
Your post.
Bahamut.Ravael
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13638
By Bahamut.Ravael 2019-12-10 18:54:41
Ahhh...I see it now! You were referring to these, correct? We were discussing HuffPo and their potentially facts I don't like on the impeachment announcement this morning at 9am? Sorry, it took me a bit.
My post.
Your post.
Is this.... Is this an attempt at trolling? I mean, it's indistinguishable and sad either way. Maybe you just need to figure out how satire works so that you can both detect it and use it properly?
Ragnarok.Ozment
Serveur: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1116
By Ragnarok.Ozment 2019-12-10 18:58:26
Ahhh...I see it now! You were referring to these, correct? We were discussing HuffPo and their potentially facts I don't like on the impeachment announcement this morning at 9am? Sorry, it took me a bit.
My post.
Your post.
Is this.... Is this an attempt at trolling? I mean, it's indistinguishable and sad either way. Maybe you just need to figure out how satire works so that you can both detect it and use it properly?
Let's focus on the impeachment in this thread, not each other's posting styles, especially when partially quoting goes both ways.
Bahamut.Ravael
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13638
By Bahamut.Ravael 2019-12-10 19:04:53
When I partially quote, I do it as a satire of your style. But hey, at least you can finally admit that you did it.
But you're right, let's get back to impeachment. The backfire is always my favorite part, and it's just beginning!
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Ragnarok.Ozment
Serveur: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1116
By Ragnarok.Ozment 2019-12-10 20:13:12
Odin.Slore
Serveur: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1350
By Odin.Slore 2019-12-11 16:54:31
Wheres are my dem friends in here? Pretty quite since that IG Report came out...
Garuda.Chanti
Serveur: Garuda
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11380
By Garuda.Chanti 2019-12-11 16:58:27
Wheres are my dem friends in here? Pretty quite since that IG Report came out... Just re oredring popcorn.
You must have read the Barr summary of the IG report.
Asura.Saevel
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9910
By Asura.Saevel 2019-12-11 17:07:55
Wheres are my dem friends in here? Pretty quite since that IG Report came out...
It was an ... interesting report.
The findings inside the report and it's conclusion are at odd with one other, as in they both can not be factually accurate. As the findings are facts and the conclusion is subjective, I take the findings as more accurate. Basically the report goes "we found all this bad inappropriate ***these FBI agents did but the FBI is totally not at fault". So the fault was shifted completely onto the agents themselves and the top brass given a pass to distance themselves from the ***fest.
"Several Officers was wrong to shoot Mr. Green in the back over a dozen times yet we find no fault with the Police Department".
That kind of stuff.
My guess is that the IG didn't want to piss off the Democrats who run Washington as he still has awhile left on this career. He's an honest person so won't lie or omit facts, and he'll just tone down the conclusion as that's an opinion anyway.
The Media Industrial Complex is reporting on the conclusion while ignoring the facts. Fox is reporting on the facts while decrying the conclusion. US AG Barr is using the findings (that's the substantiated facts) to drive a criminal probe and disagreeing with the conclusion.
Wheres are my dem friends in here? Pretty quite since that IG Report came out... Just re oredring popcorn.
You must have read the Barr summary of the IG report.
Read the report itself, findings say FBI agents did some very bad and inappropriate things, like fabricating evidence and lying to judges. Conclusion says the FBI totally didn't do anything wrong. It's an escape hatch for senior officials while shifting blame on those folks who no longer work there.
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By Viciouss 2019-12-11 17:30:05
Wheres are my dem friends in here? Pretty quite since that IG Report came out...
It completely debunked every single thing Trump and his supporters have been saying for the last 3 years. There was no spying, no wire
taps of Trump Tower, no infiltrators into the campaign, no evidence of political motivation, no impact on the Democrat Party.
It upset Barr and Durham so much, but when given the opportunity, they could not share any evidence that contradicted the conclusions of the report. This was supposed to be devastating for the Democrats specifically. It didn't even come close.
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Bahamut.Ravael
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13638
By Bahamut.Ravael 2019-12-11 19:16:19
Wheres are my dem friends in here? Pretty quite since that IG Report came out...
It completely debunked every single thing Trump and his supporters have been saying for the last 3 years. There was no spying, no wire
taps of Trump Tower, no infiltrators into the campaign, no evidence of political motivation, no impact on the Democrat Party.
It upset Barr and Durham so much, but when given the opportunity, they could not share any evidence that contradicted the conclusions of the report. This was supposed to be devastating for the Democrats specifically. It didn't even come close.
Well that was the most ridiculous mischaracterization I've heard about it so far. You don't have to dial the bias meter to 11 on literally everything, Vic.
By Viciouss 2019-12-11 19:36:31
And yet there was still no spying on Trump's campaign, no wiretapping of Trump Tower, no FBI agents trying to infiltrate the campaign, and no evidence that the decision to open the investigation was politically motivated. And no Democrats were involved in the investigation. Obama didn't sign any FISA warrants (I always loved that one).
And, Barr and Durham were given the chance to share evidence, and they couldn't. Because there isn't any. As expected, this IG report had no impact on the Democrats, as you all were promising.
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Bahamut.Ravael
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13638
By Bahamut.Ravael 2019-12-11 20:38:21
It's ironic that the Democrat argument for there being no bias is from Horowitz saying that nobody admitted to having any when interviewed, as if that would ever happen.
Just days ago, one of the actual arguments in favor of Trump having committed a crime is that people who commit crimes rarely ever come out and say it, so him not openly saying that he was bribing Ukraine was not a defense against bribery.
I don't think you can have your cake and eat it too.
By Viciouss 2019-12-11 20:57:04
Oh wow that is some nice deflection. Its ok though, I mean, the IG report was a complete dud for you guys, you can't actually show how I mischaracterized it, so back to impeachment, right?
Bahamut.Ravael
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13638
By Bahamut.Ravael 2019-12-11 21:08:10
Oh wow that is some nice deflection. Its ok though, I mean, the IG report was a complete dud for you guys, you can't actually show how I mischaracterized it, so back to impeachment, right?
Lol, I didn't put any eggs in that basket. I learned from the mistakes of the Dems after the Mueller fiasco. Anyway, you resorted to using absolutes, as usual, so you're automatically wrong. Easy.
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By Viciouss 2019-12-11 23:27:18
Oh yeah, we can absolutely say:
Trump Tower was never wiretapped.
No FBI agents were sent to infiltrate the campaign
The Trump campaign was never spied on.
The investigation was started legitimately.
President Obama did not sign any FISA warrants.
The IG report had nothing to do with the Democrats.
Nothing wrong with using "absolutes" after such a thorough investigation debunked these absurd conspiracy theories.
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Bahamut.Ravael
Serveur: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13638
By Bahamut.Ravael 2019-12-12 03:18:29
The Democrats are still peddling Trump-Russia collusion to this day. You can't claim the conspiracy high ground from your ditch.
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By fonewear 2019-12-12 09:36:42
Oh yeah, we can absolutely say:
Trump Tower was never wiretapped.
No FBI agents were sent to infiltrate the campaign
The Trump campaign was never spied on.
The investigation was started legitimately.
President Obama did not sign any FISA warrants.
The IG report had nothing to do with the Democrats.
Nothing wrong with using "absolutes" after such a thorough investigation debunked these absurd conspiracy theories.
Trump doesn't care.
Care bears do.
Caring is sharing.
How about you ?
By fonewear 2019-12-12 09:38:40
Oh yeah, we can absolutely say:
Trump Tower was never wiretapped.
No FBI agents were sent to infiltrate the campaign
The Trump campaign was never spied on.
The investigation was started legitimately.
President Obama did not sign any FISA warrants.
The IG report had nothing to do with the Democrats.
Nothing wrong with using "absolutes" after such a thorough investigation debunked these absurd conspiracy theories.
Only a Sith or a person that thinks they are smart on the internet....deals in absolutes !
By fonewear 2019-12-12 09:39:49
I'm sure Vic was sitting by the fireplace reading all 500 pages of the IG report. Hell he probably had a yellow highlighter picking out his favorite parts.
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By fonewear 2019-12-12 09:40:42
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By fonewear 2019-12-12 09:43:50
And yet there was still no spying on Trump's campaign, no wiretapping of Trump Tower, no FBI agents trying to infiltrate the campaign, and no evidence that the decision to open the investigation was politically motivated. And no Democrats were involved in the investigation. Obama didn't sign any FISA warrants (I always loved that one).
And, Barr and Durham were given the chance to share evidence, and they couldn't. Because there isn't any. As expected, this IG report had no impact on the Democrats, as you all were promising.
And no one cares.
The End.
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By fonewear 2019-12-12 09:45:44
And yet there was still no spying on Trump's campaign, no wiretapping of Trump Tower, no FBI agents trying to infiltrate the campaign, and no evidence that the decision to open the investigation was politically motivated. And no Democrats were involved in the investigation. Obama didn't sign any FISA warrants (I always loved that one).
And, Barr and Durham were given the chance to share evidence, and they couldn't. Because there isn't any. As expected, this IG report had no impact on the Democrats, as you all were promising.
Let's be honest you would believe anything the media tells you.
The thought of you being wrong would shatter your fragile ego. leaving you pacing in the corner saying "Trump bad" over and over again till the Cubs win the World Series.
By fonewear 2019-12-12 09:46:57
The first step to overcoming Vic is admitting you are wrong.
Till then you will live in the state of Denial. Which I assume is a pretty shitty state.
All of it.
Hearings, committees, Ukraine, conspiracy theories, Ukrainians, Rudy, Devin, Schiff, Nancy, the whole 9 yards.
I would respectfully ask that you hit preview before you submit, take a few slow deep breaths, reread, consider edits.
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