A Question For Career Blm/rdm Concerning Blm/sch

It's Dasva, he lies to make himself look better, you'll get used to it.

Blazza, you have no opinions on this thread

GTFO.

Krapg, you never have anything to say that anyone with half a brain should listen to.

GTFO.

I will say both get out of the thread if you are going to start picking on each other and others. Take it to flame core.

Keep the thread on topic.

Just delete his and my posts Alyria.

BLM/RDM = survivablity

BLM/SCH = best damage over time

It really depends on what you need to do at what time and who you are with.

Hey, my initial post was valid. The OP has been answered, and now Dasva is telling big fat ones to try and make himself look pro. Anyone stupid enough to follow his bs advice is going to learn the hard way how stupid it is. If you pull off all 6 AMII's (god knows why you'd even merit all 6) in a row without being resisted on about half, there's a very good chance you're going to pull hate regardless of who your tank is.

His only example was on Proto-Omega, which is totally lol-worthy. Omega is a stupidly easy boss, even with only a few people. The only time it becomes hard is when you're trying to farm the gunpods with Omega below 25% HP, in this situation your blm mp conservation isn't going to matter a damn, because the gunpods are piss weak and you're not going to be nuking Omega. You WILL however, want to keep your stoneskin up, as people ARE going to get colossally blown, hate WILL shift, and people WILL take damage.

So, I firmly believe that Dasva is a lying douche, and that his advice is idiotic at best.

But rather than explain the obvious as I just have, I just figured I'd point out for the people that don't know him, that he's a retard and let them figure the rest out on their own.


And yes, this pretty much sums up the entire OP (which has already been said). Probably the only statement missing is that an alive blm/rdm will do much better damage over time than a dead blm/sch

Your initial post is....where? On this page? You mean this?



And this is valid....how? Because you said so?

Blazza, you have no clue about anything BLM, so why do you insist on spouting your nonsense to others like you know what you are talking about?

Because you have a level 40 BLM? You know nothing, you understand nothing.

He only used one example, he only needed to use one example. You think thats not good enough? Use another examp....oh wait, you know nothing, you have no opinion in this thread.

Any BLM who gets hit by Omega's AoE is A) too close to him, and need to back off and B) wtf are they doing near him anyway? Nuke? Come on now. BLM at Omega is only there for one-shotting pods. They can do a ***ton of damage to Omega, but he is so easy that its not really worth the MP to kill him, if you can just oneshot pods just as easy.

But you won't know this, you don't even have BLM to 75.



A dead BLM is a BLM who killed himself. You have to try to take hate from a good PLD. But you won't understand this, because you are just a loldd that nobody wants to have around. Either that, or your PLD tanks for ***sucks.

tl:dr? Level BLM to 75 and do events with it before you can make an opinion.

I have warned you both to knock it off, I will be topicbanning both of you if you can't follow a simple request.

Do it he deserves it. Oh and I dont make ***up I've done it.

Not sure your question so Ill answer what I assume your asking which is hate reset. We bring 2 nin/drks also we give them some time to get hate first usually 1 phase worths. As far as legs obviously dont nuke when you cant do any real dmg. But if you could you could nuke all the *** you want and not get any hate. nin/drk hate is insane especially when they can spam all there spells and still not take dmg. We save jas for hate reset and this was pre innin or whatever the hate one is

Woops, killed my post.

Long story short, you don't need to have a 75 job to know anything about it, and I'm not claiming to be the blm guru here, but I DO know a lot about enmity, and if you're trying to tell me that 6 AMII's in a row won't pull hate then you're getting a hell of a lot of resists, or your damage just plain sucks. Now since I know your damage doesn't suck, I'm going to have to assume that you're just being a *** on purpose because you dislike me, rather than responding to my actual post.



Even for you Krapg, this is a pretty big contradiction, a dead blm kills himself, but you have to try and pull hate? Or maybe I'm misunderstanding you and you mean that if you're pulling hate off a good pld then you're really trying to pull hate? Well... wouldn't 6 AMII's in a row classify as trying to pull hate? I also find it amusing that this part was in response to something that I actually agreed with you on. Which just goes to show me even more that you're arguing with me for the sake of arguing.

I never once said that BLM/SCH is a bad idea for all situations. In fact the only thing I said was that it was a pointless exercise at Omega, because you can get it down to 5% in about 5 minutes, and then you're just standing around in a stun rotation and killing pods when it's not your turn to stun. But omg, I don't have BLM at 75, I couldn't possibly understand that. I UNDERSTAND NOTHING!



Aly, be my guest, but note that the difference between me and Krapg here is that I am replying to the idiotic posts made, rather than replying to the idiots themselves.

Dasva, As I said earlier, if you're doing 6 AMII's in a row and not pulling hate, you're obviously getting resisted a lot, that, or you're a liar.

Oh, and your first post in this thread was to tell me that I have no opinions in this thread.

Pot. Kettle. Black?

A good BLM can pull hate off a good PLD really, the assumption : BLM pull hate = shitty PLD is not always true depending on the situation. I've pulled hate many time on Wyrm KS99 and our PLD wasn't a noob. Had to restrain myself if I wanted to avoid being the main tank. If I decide to go all out on an NM, I usually do get hate, no matter who the PLD is, pretty simple. Off course that imply un-resisted full damage nuke.

To OP :

About survivability, just need to do the math. Always attend an event you're not familiar with as BLM/RDM (or /whm w/e). Check the damage you received during the event. Negate SS and Blink effect (so remove add 1 or 2 hit for blink and 350 damage for SS). Check if you would have survived or not.

Maths are easy for taru forcing yellow, ~582HP, without SS/Blink, you're dead in 3 hits usually. (if not 2).

Being hit doesn't mean that you're a bad BLM, especially when you're not soloing. Cannot control whats others players are doing. I find it way harder for me to play with an alliance/party than solo. Even duo is worse than solo unless my partner is on the same wavelength (=knows me as much as he know himself).

I'm not asking a question. Our ls usually runs omega with only a couple blms to control gunpods (I dc'd on the last omega at 25%, was't pretty). Even if your tanks are nin/drks, blms are on some kind of gunpod duty. Though, if your ls has a pt of blms, I can see why.

wow this thread gives me a headache.

I dont have limbus access so im just going off of what I read. But if a blms job is gunpod duty and they are one shotable... why does your sub really matter? I have no clue as to how they spawn or what not, so is the MP conserve super needed? And if the MP conserve isn't 100% needed, wouldnt having stoneskin be a nice thing in case things some how go sour? and you need that little bit of extra time? Again never done the fight so I have no idea, I just know when my linkshell does Kirin and what not, our blm/sch spends most of his time weakened while Im still alive. To me blm always needs stoneskin. But again I guess it comes down to the type of fight and what you are required to do. Honest questions just trying to understand. Never done the Omega fight so Im probably missing a point someone made some where about something.

You're not missing a point at all, and described the situation quite well. I'm sure blm/sch is great in some situations, but omega, everything sch adds is irrelevant due to the low HP and general squishyness of the the boss. But, it's also a fight where, easy as it is, the ***can hit the fan. During the last phase, Omega does a move like throat stab, which also resets hate of the target. Everyone I know that does Omega uses two tanks, so with good support and people knowing what to do, IF this move isn't stunned, the tank can usually get hate back before anything happens to the other tank. However, it can quite easily turn out that the second tank DOESN'T get hate back in time, and then the boss is able to run free and rape whoever is next in the hate-list. Even if that doesn't happen to be you on blm/sch, it could be someone near you, and as a squishy blm, some of his other moves can kill you if they're aimed at the person next to you.

Long story short, since the advantages of /sch aren't really that much of an advantage in a fight that takes such a small toll on your mp reserves and isn't particularly resistant to nukes. In this situation, the added survivability of /rdm or /whm is a much more viable option for "just in case". The ***can hit the fan with even the best shells at times, so taking the proper precautions is always a good idea no matter who you are.

Did I say anything about my first post being valid?

Anyone who is going to toss 6 AMIIs in a row in the correct order (but you wouldn't know anything about AMs, because you implied that you wouldn't get hate if all your AMIIs get resisted, so there is no such thing as Flare giving Flood more accuracy if cast right after Flare, is there?) would get hate regardless of the tank's abilities. I doubt you would understand what a fully merited Burst/Freeze II would do in a MB either, so I'm not even going to talk about the benifits of having half to 1/8th price AMIIs in a SC with a fully merited AMII.

Oh, and BLM/SCH is perfectly reasonable if you have smart people in your party.

Like I said before:

4x BLM/SCH
1x SCH/RDM
1x COR or BLM/SCH

This party is the ideal setup for anything that has to be manaburned. Like Jailer of Fortitude.

See, the problem is, it requires your SCH to have to AoE buff the BLMs with SS and possibly Blink. At the same time giving the either Ice or Thunder weather. But, SCHs think they can nuke just as well as BLMs can, so nobody plays SCH like that.

I don't have to explain the COR's roll in this, since Blazza is such an expert on jobs he doesn't have at 75.



Because they are only 1 shotable during day-of-the-week sea obi time period, or you have a SCH who gives you ice weather and (in both cases) you have full merits on ice potency. Your BLM also have to be geared really good. I'm talking about just under full Morri good.

I'm sure that, if I didn't have my gear I have now, I would leave a pod at about 5% on omega. If you are the only BLM, and you leave a pod at 5%, thats when your sub becomes very important.

This, my friends, is the main reason why you shouldn't listen to a BLU who doesn't have BLM past 40.

If you are fighting something that isn't resistant to nukes, and you know you are not going to tank anything because your tank can handle a AMII unresisted and still keep hate, like any good PLD should, then subbing /RDM is moot. You aren't going to be able to be of use in this situation as BLM/RDM because you will be /h about 50%-65% of the time. Where as you can nuke with Parsimony and just stop there to elemental debuff the mob without taking hate, let the PLD get a little more hate while you are debuffing, then go to town.

This is why I said you have to try to take hate from a good PLD.

BLMs will know everything about hate control because they will learn thru their deaths. If you die as a BLM, it is because it is your own damn fault.

This is why I said a dead BLM is a BLM who killed himself.

You can stop with the holier than thou ***. As I've said before, you need to stop assuming what other people know. You have absolutely no *** clue what I know, or how I may have come about that knowledge. Hell, maybe I just idolise you so much that I've been hanging off your every word in all your drama threads for years and learnt if off you.

Yes, AM and AMII done in the correct rotation will lower the resist rate for the next AM or AMII, however, how many situations are there where that's actually a viable option. 90% of NM's out there will be pretty damn highly resistant to at least one element, and the lowered resist rate given from the previous AM ain't gonna do ***to help you land it.

Going off that pathetic logic, you'd be casting flare II on genbu because the previous blm cast freeze II so your flare II will have a better resist rate and do more damage! There's also the fact that all AM and AMII have the same mp cost, even though they increase in damage from earth through to thunder.

And yes, I implied that if all your AM's are resisted you won't pull hate (unless your tank went afk ten minutes ago maybe), but my reason in implying this was to point out the quite obvious opposite of this, that if you do 6 unresisted AMII's in a row, then you will be extremely *** lucky not to pull hate even off a hate capped tank. But you wouldn't know anything about that, because you only have Burst II and Freeze II merited.

Your arguments are flawed left right and centre, but you're too *** hooked on appearing as Asura's best blm that you either don't notice, or don't care. Every single blm reading this thread (or any of your ***) that has any clue about what they're doing is laughing at you, you do realise this right?

I'm interested to know though, in your suggested party set-up for fort, what happens when two blm's pull hate after the other? Do they just have to sit to the side in a little group and wait for the SCH's aoe blink and stoneskin to be available again?



No no, I'll freely admit that I'm not an expert on COR, I'm only an expert on BLM. Please tell me what Cor's roll is in this situation... oh wait... you don't have 75 COR, so you wouldn't know anything about that.

I love how every single one of your arguments against me (and they really seem to be against me, rather than anything I'm actually saying) are based on the fact that I don't have blm at 75, but then you can act all high and mighty and imply that you know so much more than me about cor because I don't have it at 75, when you don't either.

I really should just give up, since trying to get a point across with you is about as effective as casting Flood II on genbu, but it really does amuse me to see some of the ***you come up with. So please, respond with your usual vigour.

Who's going to waste mp on a mob that is just going to resist that element? Its like a BLM nuking on Cerby. He is just going to resist that *** spell, whats the point? You honestly think that all BLMs are idiots? Like I said before, you know nothing.


Holy ***. Not only did you contradict yourself, but you also showed your very limited knowledge of BLM. This is another perfect reason why you should just shush now before you put your whole leg down your throat.



No way can a BLM not pull hate from the best tank in the game with more than 2 AMIIs in a row. With just Burst and Freeze II, I'm tanking until either the mob dies, or I die. Or the PLD Invincible, but all it would take is 1 T4 nuke and I'm right back into tanking again. But you wouldn't know that, seeing how you never had to deal with hate issues as either BRD or BLU.


Yeah, I'm totally showing flawed knowledge, am I?


So, if you have hate, are you going to just stand there and cast Stoneskin on yourself? Or are you going to let the SCH do it for you while you kite? Hmm?



Thats why I always let the COR deside on what to give me at what time and how. I don't profess COR knowledge, because I don't know much about the job except it gives me an alternate refresh and also MAB. Also gives me MAcc. Thats all I need to know about it.


And.....



See the contradiction?

I call hypocrite.

See, most of that is actually quite valid, except for the bold part.

About 50% of the time on Omega your nukes are completely worthless, so all you'll be doing is keeping up debuffs (which only takes one blm to do) and then resting until it's time to nuke again. When it comes to farming, you're not even doing that. If it's your turn to stun, you're up and ready for it, if you've just had your turn on stun, you're up and ready for the next gunpod. As you say yourself, only the very best equipped blm's can one-shot a gunpod, so it's highly likely that you'll be pulling hate if you start casting a second or two before the next blm. (And gunpods hit pretty damn hard)

As I've said many a time, I totally understand that blm/sch could be very useful in certain situations, but you also need to be vary aware of the worst that can happen in these situations. As Antipika (a blm who actually knows wtf he's talking about) said, you should never rock up to an event first time on blm/sch without knowing what's in store for you.

If you continue to go to Omega on blm/sch, I can guarantee you'll die at some point. Sure, it's only one death, and it's extremely unlikely that it will cost you the run, but it's a death that wouldn't have happened had you had stoneskin and blink, and the advantages you gained in place of that death are non-existent. I'll admit though, while the party set-up you suggested for fort seems pretty damn stupid to me due to the nature of the constant kited battle where each blm should be self-sufficient, it would actually work quite well on Omega, since it's sporadic nuking and the sch/rdm has an easy task of keeping stoneskin and blink on the whole party.

Hmm, so /SCH only gives the benifit of MP cost down 50% only?

You mean to tell me that a BLM/SCH doesn't get Casting/Recasting time down 50% Stratagem?

So, a Freeze II on a gunpod at 50% Casting time doesn't exist?

If you are farming, you want a BLM/SCH just for killing pods. Sure, they can stun too, but when a pod pops, and the BLM can 1 shot it, let them do so.

Would I die at some point? Maybe, if the AMII gets resisted, and I deside to not Bind it, or Stun it, or kite it for another BLM to finish the job.

But, it requires your group to work together, which, according to you, doesn't happen.

To the super long post, I'm just going to number them:

1: Rather than answering my question, you re-iterated my point, nice work. So again, how many situations are there where cycling all 6 AMII's is actually worth-while?

2: Please explain my contradiction. Tornado II does more damage than Quake II, Flood II does more damage than Tornado II, etc. etc. If this isn't the case, then please tell me why you merited only Freeze II and Burst II? Tornado II is a very decent spell that will go unresisted on quite a lot of NM's where blm is the main source of damage. The only reason you don't use it is because either Burst or Freeze II will also go unresisted and DOES MORE DAMAGE. The only exception to this is often Ice over Thunder, since Aquillo's staff has elemental magic skill and +INT. As for the point that you so deliberately missed, I meant that all AMII have the same MP cost, and all AM have the same MP cost. So yeah, I was wrong about AM having the same MP cost, but seriously, who uses AM outside of soloing in the mid 50's or a kuftal tunnel crab party 4 years ago.

3: You're saying the exact same thing as me here, so why are you defending Dasva when he says that he's cast all 6 AMII's in a row and attacking me on something you apparently agree with? (I'll answer that one for you: You dislike me, you like to be right, and you're looking for any excuse to argue with me you can find, rather than actually taking in anything I'm saying)
And lol that you think I don't need to know about hate control on blu. EVERY job needs to know about hate control, as EVERY job is capable of pulling unwanted hate if they, or their party members are not doing their job properly.

4: Yes.

5: Again, purposefully missing the obvious point. I mean AFTER a couple of blm's have pulled hate and presumably survived a whack or two to their stupid heads. You're now totally reliant on waiting for the SCH to come and re-apply your buffs.

6: So what happens if the cor doesn't have 75 BLM? That means he can't know anything about the job, and can't possibly know how best to support you. I, like many other people in this game strive to know how more than just their own jobs work, as knowing what other jobs are capable of will help you to work with them.

7&8: I don't get it. You've stated several times that I have no idea what I'm talking about because I'm only a level 40 blm, and the only thing I've presumed to tell you that you don't know, is about what I DO know. So no, I really don't see the contradiction or hypocrisy in this.

Lol, I didn't so much as imply a single one of those points, and in fact I even acknowledged that with the right party set-up blm/sch CAN work for Omega.

Just more of your pointless rambling attempting to attack me because it's someone you don't like rather than actually basing your response to the words on your screen.

I'm out.

Where did I say that 6 AMIIs are feasable?

Everything you said that I bolded is incorrect. Tornado II does equal damage than Quake II. Only Freeze II does a little more damage thanks to the INT+4/INT+5 depending on staff. You think that elemental skill = more damage, you are also incorrect. Elemental skill = less resist. Less resist = more damage over time. Elemental skill does not = more damage because it does not have anything to do with the damage calculations period. All elemental skill does is determines who accurate you are. Think of it as a melee standpoint. Does Accuracy increase Damage? And you call yourself a melee.

You want to know the reasoning behind my only having Burst and Freeze II? Look at my potency merits. See how I'm 5/5 on both ice and thunder? Also, look at the Magic burst for light and darkness. See something familar? In all honesty, a BLM only needs 2 spells, its their choice as to which 2 spells they get. A BLM who gets all 6 AMIIs has to get all 6 sea obis, and there is no point in that outside of killing Aspid, since Aspid resists both Thunder and Ice spells. (Thunder more than ice).



Where have I said that 6 AMIIs in a row is used for everyday nuking?


Yet, you have to work really hard at taking hate as a BLU, while its so easy for a BLM to take hate, if he is good.

What was the question?


So, a BLM can't land their nukes away from JoF now? I mean, its so hard to time the nuke so it would hit when he is about 18 feet away now? And kiting him is so hard also?


I think he can figure out, like you have, the basic idea of what a BLM is. All your knowledge have been so far, as proven many times already, is the basic ideas of a BLM. MAB = more damage, MAcc = less resists, Refresh = less resting. Thats everyone's idea of a BLM. Its how to get the best damage with the less hate that is the science of BLM.



You keep spouting your "knowledge" of BLM and you have no idea about anything that has to do with BLM.

Next thing you are going to tell us is that the mob's INT has nothing to do with the damage, and casting Burn on it won't increase the accuracy of spells now. Since, you know, MND determines the resist rate of spells, am I right?

(in case you didn't know, I was being sarcastic)

Random side note to this...discussion, since when does Aspi resist ice?

And it's really quite easy to take hate as blu, depends slightly on what you're fighting I guess but still, quite easy anywhere blu is actually good as a DD.

Its been a while since I fought Aspid.

I don't remember exactally if he resists ice, but I know he resists thunder bad. I thought that he resists ice since I will probably not be BLM if my LS fights him again.

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