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Reisenjima T4s
By Aeyela 2017-04-26 11:03:58
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »It doesn't effect them, so why fix it?
I remember years back, when all those people were banned for salvage duping, reading numerous "Me having an Ares Cuirass doesn't affect you, so why do you care so much?" posts. I mean, them clearing T4s and getting every Aeonic doesn't affect us, so it should stay as it is, right? Progression structure be damned, it's all about the individual. They couldn't see the big picture even if it was painted all over the wall of the Hall of the Gods.
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Serveur: Sylph
Game: FFXI
By Sylph.Cherche 2017-04-26 11:12:22
Fenrir.Cherrywine said: »And the SMN strat isn't invalidating any jobs at all.
Just like BST pre-nerf wasn't invalidating any jobs at all.
Most other jobs still perform just fine and can win the same content.
And the jobs that can't clear the content won't suddenly be able to if SMN is nerfed. Do you take the JSE SMNs capable of outputting at least 16250 DPS on WoC with only a COR and 2 GEO as their support. All of this is done mostly outside of kill range.
Or any other AG RMEA DPS requiring multiple GEO COR and BRD. All of this is done inside kill range
Maybe it's just me, but one of these options is vastly superior to the other options.
P.S. It isn't just me.
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Serveur: Fenrir
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Posts: 1001
By Fenrir.Cherrywine 2017-04-26 11:24:26
Vast differences between the two scenarios, but I'll bite. Let's talk through it.
The SMN strat requires team work. Buffers and a tank. The mobs could still potentially win, though the purpose of the strat is to bring this probability as close to 0 as possible. But Sleepga, Amnesia, Stunga and user error could still ruin the strat.
I guess I can sum this up as: The players still have to play to win.
They don't press one button and generate an item or a win without facing the content. And they aren't duping wins somehow, either. Hopefully we can all agree on that without debate.
This is how players defeat all content in this game. Like, all of it. There are enough restrictions on players that we largely have to mitigate NM abilities or lose. And the universal way to mitigate NM moves is to kill as rapidly as possible. This is a flaw in design, but it is what it is.
A great example of this is WoC. You can't mitigate Benediction spam, should it select that move repeatedly. You can't counter it, like this is a table top card game. You just have to kill it before it uses it, or in the time between its first use and its next use.
Every strat we use moves toward this direction.
These strats might use RNGs or SPs or certain buffers, always GEOs. They might use multi-boxing. Whatever. These players are still playing. SMN is largely unused outside of this, so, without some buff to ensure SMN is still useful in endgame (outside of buffing--spare me), no, playing it shouldn't be nerfed.
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By Fenrir.Cherrywine 2017-04-26 11:28:08
Eh, in terms of speed a sportscar is superior to a minivan, but it doesn't invalidate the minivan. They can both get you to where you want to go.
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By Odin.Geriond 2017-04-26 11:30:03
If said sports car is more available, cheaper, faster, safer, and has more storage room than the sportscar, then it certainly does invalidate it to everyone except the few that value asthetics above all else, or to the people in the tiny ranges that they're not available in.
Because they have the option, almost everyone is using almost nothing but SMN Zergs to do stuff like WoC, Kirin, T4 Reisenjima, leaving out every player that doesn't have the 5ish jobs used in that setup.
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2017-04-26 11:31:17
Odyllic subterfuge reduces the chances of sleepga/stunga/amnesia landing to the magic accuracy minimum. And while they do have to press macros, it's orders of magnitude fewer macros than any other strategy. No other setup can kill during the duration of subterfuge, completely avoiding almost everything that could go wrong.
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By Fenrir.Cherrywine 2017-04-26 11:40:48
See, again, it isn't happening here on Fenrir. So, I don't see this as a global, "Everyone is turning SMN, I think I'm turning into SMN, I really think so," like many of you do.
Have any of you seen Thank You for Smoking? It's a great movie.
Here is a quote from it that might help you better understand my position:
Nick Naylor: OK, let's say that you're defending chocolate, and I'm defending vanilla. Now if I were to say to you: 'Vanilla is the best flavour ice-cream', you'd say...
Joey Naylor: No, chocolate is.
Nick Naylor: Exactly, but you can't win that argument... so, I'll ask you: so you think chocolate is the end all and the all of ice-cream, do you?
Joey Naylor: It's the best ice-cream, I wouldn't order any other.
Nick Naylor: Oh! So it's all chocolate for you is it?
Joey Naylor: Yes, chocolate is all I need.
Nick Naylor: Well, I need more than chocolate, and for that matter I need more than vanilla. I believe that we need freedom. And choice when it comes to our ice-cream, and that Joey Naylor, that is the defintion of liberty.
So, my position is that SMN shouldn't be wiped from the face of endgame. Your position is that all of the other jobs shouldn't be wiped from the face of endgame. If SMN is nerfed, it would most likely be wiped from the face of endgame. Like BST largely has. SE fcks up nerfs. But leaving SMN as it is now still allows for choice--no other jobs need to be wiped from the face of endgame. They are still valid choices that can clear the content in the time allowed.
Serveur: Sylph
Game: FFXI
By Sylph.Cherche 2017-04-26 11:47:09
They're all just significantly worse at it in every single way.
Gotcha.
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2017-04-26 11:50:07
Fenrir.Cherrywine said: »See, again, it isn't happening here on Fenrir. Not yet. Given time without reason to believe that nerfs were incoming, it certainly would. As it is you're talking about a relatively small NA endgame community where most of the top players/leaders don't want to touch this particular strategy for various reasons, but a lot of those reasons would fall away if the expectation of future updates were to disappear.
 Ragnarok.Inx
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By Ragnarok.Inx 2017-04-26 11:51:35
Fenrir.Cherrywine said: »See, again, it isn't happening here on Fenrir. So, I don't see this as a global, "Everyone is turning SMN, I think I'm turning into SMN, I really think so," like many of you do.
Not happening on Ragnarok either as far as I can tell.
Hell, despite ostensibly having the means to execute this strategy, we don't because we have reliable alternatives.
And that reliability is what matters above all else. People have been zerging stuff like WoC forever, and its always been a flaky unpredictable approach. Locking SP's is not rocket-science and it removes 99% of the luck aspect from the fight.
 Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk 2017-04-26 11:51:43
NERF'EM ALL BACK TO 2003!!
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Posts: 1001
By Fenrir.Cherrywine 2017-04-26 11:51:44
But they aren't?
Not everyone wants to be a SMN. Not everyone has the interest, the inventory or maybe even the time to level/gear it.
If you have an excellent X job, you can use that just fine in beating the content. I know it's possible, and even reliable, to do so. Because I've not beaten a single mob using an army of SMNs.
Band wagoners are going to band wagon. There will always be something believed to be top dog. Playing whack a mole isn't going to fix that. But it will reduce choice.
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By Odin.Geriond 2017-04-26 11:54:34
BST is still valid for many parts of endgame after the nerf (at least theoretically, since SMN burning has pushed everything else off the map). If SMN isn't strong enough to do the same for endgame outside of an obviously broken strat, then it's far better to get that fixed rather than only get used for that one strat to the detriment of 75% of the game's jobs.
The fact that other jobs CAN be used in endgame doesn't matter if they aren't, which is the environment on any server large enough to have a reliable supply of competent summoners. It doesn't matter if a setup is possible if 98% of leaders go "yeah, it's possible, but there's no reason to use it over a faster, easier, and safer strat using SMN zerging", so it never actually gets used. SMN zerging existing is reducing my choice, as I haven't seen a single melee or mage style group for WoC/Kirin/certain T4 Reis in about a month.
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By Fenrir.Cherrywine 2017-04-26 12:00:25
There will always be that most reliable strat for any particular group. Nothing can stop that. Sounds to me like the problem is your people/server/leader because once SMN is pushed into the ground they will just band wagon to the next thing until that's pushed into the ground too.
Is that your aim?
Lakshmi.Byrth
VIP
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By Lakshmi.Byrth 2017-04-26 12:01:50
I wish I could get a second person on Lakshmi to level smn so I can burn T4 NMs for mostly mediocre weapons that I don't want. >:-(
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By Odin.Geriond 2017-04-26 12:06:57
Fenrir.Cherrywine said: »There will always be that most reliable strat for any particular group. Nothing can stop that. Sounds to me like the problem is your people/server/leader because once SMN is pushed into the ground they will just band wagon to the next thing until that's pushed into the ground too.
Is that your aim? Yeah, that won't happen. The player base was BLM SCing, melee killing, and normal pet killing for years, and none of those were "bandwagoned" or so overpowered they needed to be nerfed, unlike SMN zergs. If SMN zerging was nerfed, players would go back to before, where there were multiple viable strats that had actual pros and cons with each other, involving the majority of the jobs. Bandwagoning only happens like that when there's a strat that is superior to every other in nearly every way, and it's never been as bad as SMN zerging is right now.
You're basically going "well, my server isn't like that, so it must not be a problem at all!", which is both shortsighted and selfish. The large servers where this IS happening are the servers where the majority of players play, and where the "SMN effect" has its largest detrimental effects. Just because you have a safe haven where that hasn't happened (yet) doesn't mean it's not a big problem.
By Blazed1979 2017-04-26 12:08:10
I don't know why the pro-SMNs are up in arms about this. Look people, SMN is going to get nerfed in one way or another. There's not a doubt in me that SE isn't going to allow this to go on forever. Don't need a crystal ball to see this coming. Incoming "but but but why you hate my smn, don't nerf my smn, stupid you, stop talking". If I do or don't want SMN nerfed is irrelevant. Should be to you guys as well. But don't get so caught up in your BS arguments that you start believing it; SMN isn't overpowered. The hell it isn't... Its EXTREMELY overpowered.
And its going to get fixed. Like a *** in heat! its going to get fixed.
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 Bismarck.Nickeny
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By Bismarck.Nickeny 2017-04-26 12:11:01
Fenrir.Cherrywine said: »Eh, in terms of speed a sportscar is superior to a minivan, but it doesn't invalidate the minivan. They can both get you to where you want to go.
More on the lines of a teleporter vs a sports car
You have to make sure your sports car is finely tuned and able to drive during the weather conditions and still have chance of a act of god...
Where the teleporter just needs to be turned on and set to the destination totally skipping the road and weather conditions...
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2017-04-26 12:12:55
It's also worth pointing out that nerfing one problematic aspect of a job gives SE room to round out other parts in a way that might allow it to function more effectively in less centralizing strategies. A lofty goal given SE's checkered history in balancing, but it's a possibility.
Bismarck.Zuidar
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By Bismarck.Zuidar 2017-04-26 12:23:02
It's also worth pointing out that nerfing one problematic aspect of a job gives SE room to round out other parts in a way that might allow it to function more effectively in less centralizing strategies. A lofty goal given SE's checkered history in balancing, but it's a possibility.
Yeah and then some time passes and they forget about it and don't provide any follow up on such things, then they're like "Oh! I apologize that we forgot about that" and then they go "We currently have no plans".
Or maybe when they're nerfing something and also have adjustment plans to compensate around that nerf but then they half-*** it and only nerf it and no adjustments to compensate around it.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-04-26 12:29:42
It's also worth pointing out that nerfing one problematic aspect of a job gives SE room to round out other parts in a way that might allow it to function more effectively in less centralizing strategies. A lofty goal given SE's checkered history in balancing, but it's a possibility.
Yeah and then some time passes and they forget about it and don't provide any follow up on such things, then it turns into a "We currently have no plans".
That's probably been SE's biggest issue and a result of FFXI development being an "additional duty" instead of a full time position. The development team currently slotted to work on FFXI will have this bad *** idea, start to work towards it, get some solid progress with some promising future results, then people get rotated, other projects happen and the work gets shelved. Six months later someone else rotates in and rather then pickup where the previous people left off they chose to start their own brand new concept and the cycle repeats. The result is that over the years there is a lot of baggage and half finished concepts floating all over FFXI, not just in content but also in job design. Everything from resists, to killer traits to some basic JA and spell functionality.
Take the entire "BST's fight with their pet" concept, that's a good idea but it needs some significant changes to happen. First it needs to become mandatory that all buffs the master receives the pet also receives, meaning songs, rolls, food, protect, haste, everything. Otherwise groups are forced to choose between buffing the master or buffing the pet, and that choice completely breaks the idea of "fighting with your pet" because buffs are limited and need to be chosen carefully.
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By Fenrir.Cherrywine 2017-04-26 12:37:55
100% agree with what you said up above, Saevel.
The reason I bring up that it isn't happening here because that proves it isn't happening everywhere. It is no less short-sighted or selfish than the demand to nerf a job because it isn't a strat you favor.
It's like, I (you) could:
Spend time and gil to level SMN and beat NMs to get Aeonics.
Or I could spend time and gil to level any other viable job, beat NMs and get Aeonics.
Or I could use what I have right now and beat NMs right now and have Aeonics.
In response to the teleporter comment... Players aren't just job changing to SMN in their Mog House, checking their DBoxes and finding Aeonics in there... They gear it, job point it, get access to the fight, pop it and kill it. They are playing the game.
If you don't like your server, change it. You can change it by just not using the SMN strat on the server you are on (you can still win, reliably, I promise) or change your server. Choices! I like them!
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By Odin.Geriond 2017-04-26 12:51:02
Choices are not choices at all if none of the choices are actually feasible, and include negatives that far outstrip the positives. You ignoring the problem just because it doesn't affect you in particular is like people in the western world saying that world hunger is not a real problem just because they could theoretically move somewhere where food is more available. It's not that simple. Similarly, your suggested choices are unfeasible for many.
I can't "not use the SMN" strat because that involves getting other people to do the same thing, despite nearly all of the people who have the know-how and experience to organize melee or mage style groups having moved onto SMN strat already, and few people are going to follow you unless you have experience in organizing it, especially when there's a strat that is better in practically every way.
I can't "change server" because that introduces a bunch of other negatives to me personally that are just as big or bigger, and given that I'd need to find a completely new group to do it with on the new server, likely wouldn't solve the problem in the first place. That's not even counting the fact that given that the strat is so much easier and safer, it's only a matter of time before that new server has the exact same problem.
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Game: FFXI
By Sylph.Cherche 2017-04-26 12:52:28
4.7 mil for a weapon that'll allow you to perform on the same level as RMEA melee with augmented Reisenjima armor and HQ Abjurations isn't a bad deal.
And hell. If you really want to blow everyone away, Nirvana is 100m cheaper than every other functional Mythic or Empyrean Weapon.
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By clearlyamule 2017-04-26 13:14:08
It's also worth pointing out that nerfing one problematic aspect of a job gives SE room to round out other parts in a way that might allow it to function more effectively in less centralizing strategies. A lofty goal given SE's checkered history in balancing, but it's a possibility. I'm still waiting for them to do that with some smn nerf a long time ago. When they implemented the dt cap for pets way back when which was definitely very broken and needed of fix it took away the need/reason for making the avatar innate pdt count separate from pet pdt/dt as you can no longer 100% pdt with just ducal guard. It's been brought up a few times too since those 2 changes were done pretty close together but they've continued to ignore it.
Or the removing th3 from bst jugs while promising pet th gear... only to then claim they didn't and then delete the posts they did and the posts of the people saying they did <.<.
By clearlyamule 2017-04-26 13:17:03
I wish I could get a second person on Lakshmi to level smn so I can burn T4 NMs for mostly mediocre weapons that I don't want. >:-( When I was last over there there were tons of smns... selling astral burn slots
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By Blazed1979 2017-04-26 13:25:34
Kili Kili Mabaho
Asura.Xijaah
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By Asura.Xijaah 2017-04-26 13:34:06
4.7 mil for a weapon that'll allow you to perform on the same level as RMEA melee with augmented Reisenjima armor and HQ Abjurations isn't a bad deal.
And hell. If you really want to blow everyone away, Nirvana is 100m cheaper than every other functional Mythic or Empyrean Weapon. Sorry, but this is so wrong.
1) the whole "my job is more expensive so it should outperform yours" it's an old bias. I can recall people complaining against rng nerf, using this very argument, which is clearly wrong when you think of it. More expensive just means more expensive;
2) you're making it sound like that jse is all you need, like SMNs don't need reisenjima gear or hq abjuration (they do);
3) REMAs are good, but they are far from being the best single option for every job. If you still don't believe me, explain why most mages have been using escha/reis staves for most purposes;
4) if nirvana looks so weirdly cheap to you, I'm curious of what you think about yagrush or burtgang.
Ultimately, I'm looking forward to the next month, whatever adjustments are gonna happen, smn related or not, I trust those will put an end to this (mostly uneducated) debate.
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Serveur: Sylph
Game: FFXI
By Sylph.Cherche 2017-04-26 13:44:43
4.7 mil for a weapon that'll allow you to perform on the same level as RMEA melee with augmented Reisenjima armor and HQ Abjurations isn't a bad deal.
And hell. If you really want to blow everyone away, Nirvana is 100m cheaper than every other functional Mythic or Empyrean Weapon. Learn to read.
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By Fenrir.Cherrywine 2017-04-26 13:48:07
I think the point he was making is that every Mythic costs exactly the same. Your statement makes no sense.
Didn't see a thread up here and the info on BG is all over the place so I figured I'd make a thread to summarize the NM kill strats so far for people who want to try it for themselves. Everyone is welcome to add info themselves and I'll update the OP
Albumen
Ashweed x3 + Void Grass x3 + Vermihumus + Coalition Humus
Notes:
-4x Adds spawn with the main NM
-4 More spawn at 28:00, and 4 more spawn at 26:00 for a total of 12x adds (doesn't spawn any more, may respawn if you kill them, unconfirmed)
-Adds won't hesitate to SP shortly after spawn (about 10 seconds after.) Possibly 2hs are Chainspell, Mijin Gakure, Benediction (I haven't seen a 4th one? It might be the DNC one?)
-Main NM has access to standard Korrigan moves (including Fatal Scream, Petalback Spin etc.)
-Petalback Spin causes hate reset
-Stunnable by GEO/BLM with just focus or languor.
-Main NM can do Hundred Fists (often does Terror->Hundred Fists)
-Main NM has a 5-15 second long enpetrify effect that lands semi-frequently.
Strategies
Source: Ramzus/Lyramion
The only strategies recorded thusfar have been by Lyramion/myself. I don't know the exact details of his but the underlying concept is the same so I'll just add whatever I know, he's welcome to add in points himself after he wants.
Setup: BRD/BLM GEO/BLM PLD WHM | BLM/SCH BLM/SCH BLM/SCH BLM/SCH GEO/WHM COR/WHM | SCH SCH
Buffs:
Languor, Malaise, Focus, Haste, Entrust Acumen
Tactician's Roll, Wizard's Roll, Voidstorm (II)
Part 1: Adds Spawning
BRD pops JAs before spawning it (NT, Marcato, Elemental Seal). Horde Lullaby 2 on spawn immediately before they allahu akbar you. From here on, it's basically just afk until more adds spawn. The BRD needs to pop super revit as soon as possible, and then reuse JAs at ~28:30 remaining in the fight to resleep the 4 new adds that will spawn. After that, afk again until 26:00, once all 12 have spawned, someone can wake up all the adds to wipe your ally as fast as possible.
Part 2: NM Fight
Wait for everyone to recover and for BRDs JA timers to come back up, we rotated the SCH into the BLM pt for voidstorm 2 and then moved them back out.
BRD opened with NT/Marcato/Ele Seal and pulled with Horde Lullaby II (make sure your BRD memorizes how long their Lullaby lasts with NT+Marcato and NT+Marcato+CC) then we moved the Mandragora away from all the babies and started Gravitations alternating Death in pairs. The GEO in the tank PT popped BoG Languor for now.
As soon as possible, The COR should go into the PT with the BRD and RD'd + Super Revit RD'd again to get Marc/Ele Seal/NT back up, as well as got the GEO's BoG back for another Languor. Then at some point, The tank PT GEO did bolster malaise+languor and one of the SCHs tabula rasa'd and we just Death SC'd continuously. The BRD made sure to keep track of her Lullaby timer and told me when it had <30 sec remaining, then I ele seal Breakga'd then the BRD reapplied Lullaby with NT/CC/SV/Ele Seal for an additional 6.5min for a total of 12min. At some point the COR WC'd the BRD+1st bolster to see if they'd get it back (just in case for some reason it takes more than 12 min of fighting to kill). If bolster didn't recover then our GEOs swapped PTs and continued. The GEO/BLM can stun Petalback Spin 100% of the time with just Languor or just Focus, we only got hate reset 1 time because it did it mid-cast so it got through.
Voidsnapper x3 + Ashweed x3 + Mistmelt + Scroll of Tornado
Use THF, THF, THF, THF and THF. Every other DD is an absolute waste of time. Rudra's does 20k+ easily with either SA or TA and way shorter timers.
Buffs: Chaos, Miser, Tactician, Samurai, Frailty, Fury, Wilt, DEX/Barrier
Setup: PLD/BLU WHM, SMN, GEO (WHM was dualboxed by PLD so no /smn)
GEO THF/SAM THF/SAM THF/SAM COR/SMN /SMN
I dualbox'd GEO and did wilt/frailty in the tank pt, and DEX/Fury in the melee pt. The bubbles never wore for the most part (i did switch frailties between pt a few times and changed DEX to Barrier in tank pt) but you should never have an issue with it wearing off.
We also had all 6 members of the THF pt to get both lucid wings1/2 and we timed using them around when all THFs offloaded tp, in reality I should have saved them for when I did bolster but that's just for something to consider in the future.
We had 2 COR/SMN and a SMN rotating lullaby with SMN->COR1->SMN->COR2->SMN etc as soon as timers were up after the initial spacing out of lullabies to get a good cycle going. We opted from using BSTs to kill adds and just mewing lullabied all of them, not a single TP move went off the entire 23min fight.
I should mention that all THF were basically geared from their other jobs without actually dedicated gear (they all geared it from their BLUs/NINs etc) and they all had 0 JP. So if we were to use 3x Aeonic THF with 2100 JP we could probably get the fight down to sub 15 minutes no problem.
Void Crystal x3 + Void Grass x3 + Titanite x10 + Worm Mulch
Notes:
-Absorbs damage during TP moves
-Does relatively little damage, as do adds.
-Luopans soak Gorge/Disgorge damage making it a non-issue.
-Has unique TP move called Psychosis Gorge(sp?) that is an unerasable/sacrificable impact type stat reduction.
-Absorbs magic damage after casting Fire type spells below 50%, switches to absorb Physical Damage when it starts casting Earth spells
-Spawns adds after first SC, will retaliate with Doomvoid if you repeat the same SC, need to cycle some elements (not sure total amount)
-Increasing SC level causes more adds to spawn, can cycle t1 SCs.
-Main NM and babies can all Dustvoid to fully strip tank equipment, need some sort of method of immediately getting it back on so you don't die (our PLD make an equipset and macro'd it and mashed it when it did dustvoid.)
Strategy:
Source: Lyramion, Ramzus
PT1: PLD WHM SCH GEO
PT2: SCH BLM BLM BLM GEO COR
Buffs: Wizard's Roll, Tactician's Roll, Languor, Malaise, Focus, Acumen
I followed Lyra's suggestion of doing Wind->Ice->Fire->Dark->Thunder-> but I'm not sure how much it matters? If possible, Wind->Ice->Dark would probably work the best as those produced the highest damage nukes. I had BLMs self storm on every single SC so I wouldn't have to deal with it. On the wind SC I had the other SCH SC, no one except me MB'd so I could get some super powered Helix off. Without Bolster/Temp I was landing 13k Helix, with Bolster+Soldier the highest I saw was 30k.
There is very relatively little damage dealt by the NM this entire fight, GEOs should theoretically be able to full time BoG bubbles until they wear off naturally, unless they have enough regen (not sure if it's even possible to fully negate?)
During the more important SCs (Wind/Dark) we'd spam dia on the NM to force it to use a TP move before going, just to guarantee not healing it since 3x Death was doing >200k damage total. The TP feed is incredibly slow on this NM so this is a guaranteed method of being able to avoid TP dmg absorption 100% of the time if you SC immediately after it goes.
However, below 50% when it starts absorbing damage based on whether it's casting fire/earth, it starts to do multiple TP moves in a row instead of just one, so do be careful of that. We opt'd out of using silence after the first 3 landed, since it appeared to use spells almost guaranteed after silence wore which disrupted the flow of the battle. I'm not 100% certain, but I think it casts spells every 30 seconds and whether it decides to use Fire or Earth is random? It does use the same element spell multiple times in a row, though. I didn't observe enough to see whether it occurs in phases or not.
Voidsnapper x3 + Gravewood Log x3 + Leisure Table + Trump Card Case
The hardest fight in the game. Tumult Curator might be close, but he doesn't really give anything special. Anyone who wants an aeonic weapon eventually has to face this guy, who is on another level from all of the other NMs required. Even the best geared and most coordinated groups WILL lose to this guy, multiple times, before winning once.
Everything about this is a nightmare. Schah spawns a grand total of 14 adds; 7 Bhata (pawn), 2 Ashva (knight), 2 Gaja (bishop), 2 Ratha (rook), and 1 Mantri (queen). If any Bhata lives for too long (2-3 mins), it "promotes" into another Mantri. Ashva can use Banneret Charge (sets HP to 1) from 100%, which is basically an instant loss if it hits the PLD. Gaja can use Besieger's Bane (20' Terror+Zombie+Bio) from 100%, which is, again, instant loss if it hits the PLD and WHM. Every single caturae possesses knockback TP moves, and they can go into the trees and knock the PLD out of the corner. Hate is nigh impossible to hold; they WILL eventually split off from the PLD and attack others.
There are some good sides, and some key points. Bhata has less health than the other adds, and will almost always die in one SC+MB volley. Ratha does nothing special, so it can be left alone until the two Ashva/Gaja are dealt with. Mantri has FAR more health and defenses than the other adds (letting a second Mantri spawn is basically game over), but she can't use Enthrall (charmga) until 50%. Finally, don't even think of keeping the adds alive; Schah himself takes virtually no damage until they're all dead.
With all adds dead, it becomes a race against the clock. Only Death does any reasonable damage against Schah, so as many of those need to fire off as possible (hence BLM/SCH). Be careful; we have seen Schah use Besieger's Bane, Royal Decree, and Enthrall, as well as all the other caturae TP moves. We haven't seen him use Banneret Charge, but that just might be extremely rare. This is far easier to survive than with adds up, but don't let your guard down. Slack off on damage at any point, and you very well might time out.
The Corsair was dualboxed (by me). Every other job you simply cannot dualbox, too much is required. Setup was PLD/BLU WHM SCH in tank pt, then BLM/SCH BLM/SCH SCH GEO GEO COR. 1 Idris, no mage has any Amalric+1 gear. We did get lucky on Wild Card reset this time, but we have beaten him without it.
Before you start worrying about getting clears for an aeonic weapon, ask yourself if you're ever going to be able to beat this guy...because to get one, you're going to have to. Using a brew won't count either. Up for the challenge?
Void Crystal x3 + Voidsnapper x3 + Siren's Hair + Scroll of Maiden's Virelai
Notes:
-Uses SPs in random order at 79, 59, 39, 29, 19 and 9%. At 9% it will keep using SPs over and over.
-Each SP comes with a mega range aura.
-Soul voice: 1 minute silence aura and it gains access to virelai and a charm TP move called Entice. Vex/attunement will block Entice 99% of the time, but only charm buffer can block virelai reliably. Important to note that charm buffer can be dispelled easily in this fight. We had PLD use Sent. or invincible when this aura was up, but tank party will still have to rely on healing temps if HP goes too low.
-Manafont: 1 minute MDB down aura. Laughably easy to deal with if you have vex/attunement and Aegis on PLD. This is a good period to do as much damage as you possibly can.
-Invincible: 30 second 200-300/tic dia aura. Manawall can block this damage, which leaves the rest of the mage party to heal themselves. As long as no one panics and uses cures/temps, it's not too bad to deal with.
-Heavily favors using Clarsach when someone pulls hate at a distance, usually resulting in the entire backline getting 1shot.
-It's very important to pop this at a spot where the mage party can abuse terrain due to Clarsach's range. There are a few spots that work, but we settled on the spot near warp #2.
Strategy
Source: Ejiin
Tank party: PLDx2 GEOx2 WHM. Mage party: BLMx3 SCH GEOx2.
-PLD x2 was used because it has wonky hate, similar to Seiryu mechanics, where once damage is dealt to it, it will partial reset hate on its current target and chase the person who damaged it. This can be completely negated by having a 2nd tank who tries to get hate during periods when damage is done to it. Doing this, it did not chase BLM even once the entire fight.
-WHM was pulling hate a lot and wiping the backline, so we ended up having the WHM stand with the tanks.
-GEOs were used for vex/attunement/focus/wilt and entrust haste cycle for tank party, which made Teles very manageable to deal with. Focus was so the GEOs in the tank party could land dispel. GEOs in the mage party did standard mage GEO buffs/debuffs.
-Clarsach gives it many buffs, including Attack/MAB/MDB/Meva boosts, so it's a good idea to have several people on Dispel duty.
-Magic burst Death in pairs, spacing them out appropriately to avoid magic resistance mechanic to allow for 99,999 on each death.
Void Crystal x3 + Duskcrawler x3 + Bone Chip x10 + Scarletite Ingot
Notes:
-Spawns with 2 adds, Green Naraka has random hate, Blue one usually stays glued to the tank.
-Astral Flow at around 46 and 16, seems to be a hybrid between AF and Meikyo? Will do Sakra Storm or Yama's Judgment at the end of 4 TP move and spawn 2 more adds at the end of each AF, for a maximum of 6 adds. Will spawn a Green+Blue Naraka each time
-Meikyo Shisui at 74, 49, 24%, and spams it below 10%. Will also do Sakra Storm or Yama's Judgment as its 4th TP move.
-Yama's Judgment is 5-count doom.
-Meikyo Shisui during Raksha Stance : Judgment or Illusion > Judgment or Illusion > Vengeance > Yama's Judgment
-Meikyo Shisui during Yaksha Stance : Bliss or Damnation > Bliss or Damnation > Oblivion > Sakra Storm
-CAN BE STUNNED with elemental seal (save it for the 4th tp move of SP)
-Fairly resistant to most debuffs.
-Will heavily favor Raksha Stance which gives it -50% MDT. Can supposedly be terror/DT reset proc'd by completing a SC in the middle of the animation for a stance TP move.
-Killing adds will cause him to respawn one per TP move until he reaches his current maximum add capacity.
Strategy
Source: Papesse, Ramzus, Lyramion, Geigei
PT1: PLD RUN WHM SCH SCH BRD/BLM
PT2: BLM BLM BLM BLM GEO/WHM GEO/WHM
Buffs: Focus, Haste, Malaise, Languor, Entrust Acumen, Firestorm II
Fight is very heavily terrain dependent, Warp#2 highly recommended.
Like Albumen, this fight is highly dependent on BRD sleeps.
The mages should be positioned at the top of the hill, while the PLD tanks it at the bottom of the hill with their back facing the mages, Vinipata should be on the dirt path. Knock back makes this fight a total bitch, the PLD needs to be very alert and run immediately back to Vinipata if they get knocked back before it gets repositioned closer to the mages.
Part 1: Initial Spawn + Fighting
The BRD should open with NT CC Ele seal and sleep the adds right on pop. The PLD runs the NM down the hill, positions it. As soon as positioning is good, 1 GEO should bolster Focus+Malaise while the other does BoG Languor+Haste. The first SCH can also tabula rasa and then immediately start spamming fusion while the RUN Gamb/Raykes and the BLMs MB Firaja->Fire6. This fight is highly dependent on your ability to push Vinipata down to the next set of adds spawns.
GEOs should be helping with status ailments, particularly spamming cursna on the PLD on Yama's Judgment. Global recasts on Cursna make it hard for a single WHM to consistently remove it on time while dealing with curing+other debuffs.
As you continue to MB it down, prepare yourself at approximately 50% for Astral Flow to occur, and BLMs should change off of Firaja to just single target MBs. As soon as the AF animation goes at ~46, everyone should just gather ontop of it and wipe as soon as possible, having a good Helix II MB on it shortly before 50% is indispensable as it can whittle down a good 10% while someone zombies vinipata during recovery.
Part 2: Saccing
Right before wiping, someone needs to throw a Bio II or Dia II on Vinipata just in case to prevent it from regening while zombing. We had our GEO that used bolster sac it while we all recovered. It is highly important that you wipe TOWARDS THE DIRT PATH AS LOW AS POSSIBLE and remain there while waiting for weakness to wear, otherwise a stray TP move while saccing might wipe all of you again. When ready, get buffs up again, the BRD should this time use CC + SV ontop of the usual JAs for maximum duration sleep on adds, since the goal is to (hopefully) kill it before adds wake up this time.
Part 3: Killing it
Everyone repositions again, mages should hide at the very top of the hill in the little corner to avoid TP move on pull, BRD pulls with Horde Lullaby II again with all JA/SP while PLD stands on bottom of hill ready to flash Vinipata on pull.
Repeat the same thing, the 2nd GEO and SCH should now Bolster/TR (obviously switch bubbles on GEO so that you have Bolster Malaise+Focus again) and start SCing + Firaja/Fire6 with Gambit/Rayke. The RUN should also super revit so that they can Gambit+Rayke at low % again just to force it to 0, as <10% can get messy.
The BRD also needs to super revit before 25% to have JAs ready to immediately sleep adds 5/6 when they spawn. At that point, go back to strictly single target, and throw out another Gambit+Rayke, and hope that it dies before anything wakes up. You should IDEALLY have about 15 minutes left, but you may find that to not always be the case. If you wipe at <10% (we have at least 3 times), continue saccing it until the BRDs JA timers are up, it'll be a really bad time crunch as you have probably 3 min to finish it. You'll need to watch out too because it likes to use Meikyo frequently <10%, and when you start the fight it'll open up with 4 tp moves while repositioning, so everyone needs to stay away, as it will very easily wipe you.
This fight is very very dependent on how frequently it uses Raksha Stance. We've had fights take 12 min, and fights taken 29 min entirely because it stayed in Raksha Stance for 100% of the fight.
Void Grass x3 + Ashen Crayfish x3 + Flan Meat x10 + Black Pudding
Notes:
-Arguably the easiest fight, is a complete Zerg.
-Spawns with 2 adds that cause an approximate 21'? 400 dmg Bio Aura. Killing the adds will drop the aura until new ones spawn.
-Frequently spawns new adds, at <50% it gains access to adds that give a doom aura.
-Auras can be avoided by everyone except for PLD+WHM by abusing terrain on Warp 2.
-Gains access to charm at <50%.
-Can be proc'd with SC+Fire MBs (?)
Strategy
Source: Ramzus, Lyramion.
PT1: RUN PLD/BLU WHM
PT2: BLM BLM BLM SCH GEO GEO
(can alternatively throw SCH into tank PT after storms and bring 4 BLM).
Buffs: Languor, Malaise, Acumen, Focus, entrust Haste, Firestorm II
1 BLM should use elemental seal before pop, and immediately stun it when its popped to avoid a 10 second stun from Just Desserts. The fight entirely relies on this opening stun.
Once positioned, the PLD uses appropriate /BLU spells (Jettatura, Geist Wall, Sheep Song etc.) when adds spawn to hold hate. Everyone should abuse the hill terrain to be a good 23' away from the NM and avoid aura. We had both of our GEOs Bolster + have the SCH TR + Embrava both PTs and just zerged it down with Firaja->Fire 6 MBs in under 2 min.
The PLD+WHM should use Charm Buffer before 50% (around 60 is pretty good) as it goes down pretty fast, and might use charm fairly fast. It has a fairly large range on it, as our WHM got hit by it on our first win, so assume that it'll probably be 20'.
Every time we've fought it, SC+MB proc'd it around 60% and made it take very massive damage (i.e. multiple 99,999 Fire MBs) which made it drop really fast, I'm not sure how easy it is to replicate this.
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