Dude, I had 5 Aeonics prior to the Geo-nerf. Playing as BST, THF, or BLM in ls events. My SMN was a job I mastered ages ago and felt like coming back to as a palate-cleanser. I like pet jobs.
You're right though, I'm not a career SMN. I'm currently making Terpischore not Nirvana even! So even with all-round slightly above average gear I'm under no illusions about what the job is capable of currently. Which is why I'm adamantly opposed to nerfing it, because its just not that big an issue outside of the cherry-picked corner cases being used to create that impression.
Reisenjima T4s
Reisenjima T4s
Well, look at it this way. Geo nerf happened because BLM was a reliable and simple strategy that anyone could execute once they had the gear.
SMN is the same thing now, except it requires significantly less gear, significantly less thought, and significantly less time. You can cling to your delusions if you want, but there's a reason so many people are suddenly burning it up and so many others are saying it needs to be nerfed.
SMN is the same thing now, except it requires significantly less gear, significantly less thought, and significantly less time. You can cling to your delusions if you want, but there's a reason so many people are suddenly burning it up and so many others are saying it needs to be nerfed.
And the vast majority of the surge of new Nirvana in the past 2 months isn't from people wanting to try something fun and new, it's because after the GEO nerf, they tried BLM, melee or RNG method and couldn't cut it, and it's much easier/cheaper/efficient making a couple Nirvana than retooling your entire group.
Even if BLM method Schah became "easy" I still respected any group that could manage that level of coordination. Can a group SMN burning Schah(or anything for that matter) right now really say they are proud of their clears?
Even if BLM method Schah became "easy" I still respected any group that could manage that level of coordination. Can a group SMN burning Schah(or anything for that matter) right now really say they are proud of their clears?
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The shitty thing about the SMN situation is that I actually like job and strategy versatility. I believe it's healthy for the game for different fights / content to require different job setups and different strategies. Problems always happen when one setup / strategy absolutely overpowers the rest, which is what's happening with SMN right now. I hope whatever SE does doesn't hurt them too much, and only stops the SMN zerg on ~everything~ under the sun.
Hmmm, BLM burning didn't require a mythic just the easily obtainable staves from escha/reisen, didn't require SP usage, and allowed capped damage to be dealt practically at will. The biggest threat to that being another BLM sneaking their burst in a an unfortunate point and resist-walling you.
Saying that SMN requires less effort/expense is frankly laughable.
Not everyone has a Nirvana, nor is hell-bent on creating one, despite its absence creating a 40% defecit to peak dps.
Saying that SMN requires less effort/expense is frankly laughable.
Not everyone has a Nirvana, nor is hell-bent on creating one, despite its absence creating a 40% defecit to peak dps.
Short of beating smn with the nerf bat within an inch of it's life, the only options they have require effort. Removal or re-balancing of mob scaling mechanics or fixing faults in other jobs to bring them up.
If they roll back november's DA changes, it blunts the edge nirvana has and maybe switches two pieces of my gear. On paper I'll still parse 5-10% over a was smn, with gridarvor becoming trash.
If they lower BP damage in other ways, it won't do much as long as bringing more summoners outweighs the HP scaling of the mob.
A cumulative resistance build to pact spam in conduit would just mean rotating volt and chaotic.
A good balance is more content like the job master fights or omen end bosses, things that have better hard stop gimmicks that prevent or hamper me just running up and shotgunning it in the face. I'd also prefer a removal of party number scaling on all escha content. balance t1s for 6, t2s for 12, and t3s/4s for 18.
If they roll back november's DA changes, it blunts the edge nirvana has and maybe switches two pieces of my gear. On paper I'll still parse 5-10% over a was smn, with gridarvor becoming trash.
If they lower BP damage in other ways, it won't do much as long as bringing more summoners outweighs the HP scaling of the mob.
A cumulative resistance build to pact spam in conduit would just mean rotating volt and chaotic.
A good balance is more content like the job master fights or omen end bosses, things that have better hard stop gimmicks that prevent or hamper me just running up and shotgunning it in the face. I'd also prefer a removal of party number scaling on all escha content. balance t1s for 6, t2s for 12, and t3s/4s for 18.
Or ... just don't have AC stack with AF, or impose a mandatory wait in between BP's on AC, or reduce the base fTP values of a few of the BP's that are being used. Lots of stuff can be done that would result in less burst damage but still keep the job viable as a hate-free safe damage source.
Thing is, SMN without AF or AC is pretty balanced, it's not nearly as high total damage as buffed DD's but it's damage is hate free and can be done from a safe distance, both worth strategic value. Yet when they hit AF + AC they can spam extremely powerful BP's for obscene damage. So by adjusting the second situation to more resemble the first they can bring stop the SMN zerging without nerfing the job.
Thing is, SMN without AF or AC is pretty balanced, it's not nearly as high total damage as buffed DD's but it's damage is hate free and can be done from a safe distance, both worth strategic value. Yet when they hit AF + AC they can spam extremely powerful BP's for obscene damage. So by adjusting the second situation to more resemble the first they can bring stop the SMN zerging without nerfing the job.
1. defeats the purpose of astral flow and implements a restriction that no other job has.
2. defeats the purpose of conduit itself. there's already a 1-2 second 'ready' delay.
3. is a nerf anyway. would hurt nonburn output.
The problem with AF/AC isn't simply that i can do a lot of damage. It's that i can do a lot of damage with minimal members in situations that aggressively favor such. Complete removal of the HP scaling mechanics would go a long way to help alleviate this. Setups that use more members shouldn't be penalized.
2. defeats the purpose of conduit itself. there's already a 1-2 second 'ready' delay.
3. is a nerf anyway. would hurt nonburn output.
The problem with AF/AC isn't simply that i can do a lot of damage. It's that i can do a lot of damage with minimal members in situations that aggressively favor such. Complete removal of the HP scaling mechanics would go a long way to help alleviate this. Setups that use more members shouldn't be penalized.
Astral flow is strong, but I'm willing to bet the zergs would still work if it didn't stack with conduit, especially if all smns had nirvana.
Increase mp cost of all blood pacts by 2-3x and prevent MP recovery through any method during conduit. Done. Nothing outside conduit changes, you get limited to only a few offensive BP while still being able to superbuff, get a damage burst comparable to most melee 1hrs, or chain squall/mew.
Increase mp cost of all blood pacts by 2-3x and prevent MP recovery through any method during conduit. Done. Nothing outside conduit changes, you get limited to only a few offensive BP while still being able to superbuff, get a damage burst comparable to most melee 1hrs, or chain squall/mew.
Sorry man your not keeping your super zerg mechanic.
Whatever happens, that is being nerfed. SE is not going to buff every DD job to do 2 million damage in 60s on CL150 content. Now there are many different wants to nerf it, some of them make SMN nearly useless in group content, others just prevent the mega zerg. I would much rather the later and not the former.
What your thinking is the same thing RNG's, THF's and BST's thought. It's happening and no amount of positive wishful thinking is going to stop it.
Whatever happens, that is being nerfed. SE is not going to buff every DD job to do 2 million damage in 60s on CL150 content. Now there are many different wants to nerf it, some of them make SMN nearly useless in group content, others just prevent the mega zerg. I would much rather the later and not the former.
What your thinking is the same thing RNG's, THF's and BST's thought. It's happening and no amount of positive wishful thinking is going to stop it.
Asura.Saevel said: »
Sorry man your not keeping your super zerg mechanic.
Whatever happens, that is being nerfed. SE is not going to buff every DD job to do 2 million damage in 60s on CL150 content. Now there are many different wants to nerf it, some of them make SMN nearly useless in group content, others just prevent the mega zerg. I would much rather the later and not the former.
What your thinking is the same thing RNG's, THF's and BST's thought. It's happening and no amount of positive wishful thinking is going to stop it.
Whatever happens, that is being nerfed. SE is not going to buff every DD job to do 2 million damage in 60s on CL150 content. Now there are many different wants to nerf it, some of them make SMN nearly useless in group content, others just prevent the mega zerg. I would much rather the later and not the former.
What your thinking is the same thing RNG's, THF's and BST's thought. It's happening and no amount of positive wishful thinking is going to stop it.
you're responding to my argument with a "nope they're gonna nerf you and that's that" when i'm saying that there's other mechanics in the game that need to be resolved to remove situations like this down the line.
The party member hp scaling mechanic is terrible ***and shouldn't be used to balance content. It punishes groups that can meet the bar but need a larger footprint while encouraging an exploitative play style.
You can also throw in a Fade for some very steep reduction in damage, most mobs don't seem to have very high MAB.
Cactureas for example, do next to nothing with fade on any of their magical WS, same goes with Claras. Either boost up the m.eva to resist it, or half the damage with fade (or both, because why not)
Cactureas for example, do next to nothing with fade on any of their magical WS, same goes with Claras. Either boost up the m.eva to resist it, or half the damage with fade (or both, because why not)
Asura.Frod said: »
Asura.Saevel said: »
Sorry man your not keeping your super zerg mechanic.
Whatever happens, that is being nerfed. SE is not going to buff every DD job to do 2 million damage in 60s on CL150 content. Now there are many different wants to nerf it, some of them make SMN nearly useless in group content, others just prevent the mega zerg. I would much rather the later and not the former.
What your thinking is the same thing RNG's, THF's and BST's thought. It's happening and no amount of positive wishful thinking is going to stop it.
Whatever happens, that is being nerfed. SE is not going to buff every DD job to do 2 million damage in 60s on CL150 content. Now there are many different wants to nerf it, some of them make SMN nearly useless in group content, others just prevent the mega zerg. I would much rather the later and not the former.
What your thinking is the same thing RNG's, THF's and BST's thought. It's happening and no amount of positive wishful thinking is going to stop it.
you're responding to my argument with a "nope they're gonna nerf you and that's that" when i'm saying that there's other mechanics in the game that need to be resolved to remove situations like this down the line.
The party member hp scaling mechanic is terrible ***and shouldn't be used to balance content. It punishes groups that can meet the bar but need a larger footprint while encouraging an exploitative play style.
Oh there are lots of little things that need changed and a few big ones. Big ones being NM's having too much magic evasion creating a catch-22 situation with BRD and RDM, NM's HP scaling too dramatically, and NM's having too many crippling AoE status ailments just to name a few. But that's not the issue here, the issue is SMN stacking abilities and buffs to exploit a mechanic enabling them to completely bypass content mechanics. That is why it's going to be nerfed, not because other jobs can't do it, but because SMN can.
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Really can't see the upside in nerfing it. The time investment needed to make a Nirvana far outstrips that required to make as many Aeonics as your heart desires.
And without Nirvana, the whole zerg argument is moot because dps without AM3 simply isn't that extreme even factoring in how its still the bis weapon for physical BP's.
Classic case of trying to close the gate after the horse has bolted. Making content more difficult after most strong groups have done it to death basically only penalizes those behind the curve already.
EDIT: Oh and aggravates those who put the work in to make a mythic... Alienating two groups with one move... genius for retention I don't think.
And without Nirvana, the whole zerg argument is moot because dps without AM3 simply isn't that extreme even factoring in how its still the bis weapon for physical BP's.
Classic case of trying to close the gate after the horse has bolted. Making content more difficult after most strong groups have done it to death basically only penalizes those behind the curve already.
EDIT: Oh and aggravates those who put the work in to make a mythic... Alienating two groups with one move... genius for retention I don't think.
Ragnarok.Inx said: »
The time investment needed to make a Nirvana far outstrips that required to make as many Aeonics as your heart desires.
Ragnarok.Inx said: »
And without Nirvana, the whole zerg argument is moot because dps without AM3 simply isn't that extreme even factoring in how its still the bis weapon for physical BP's
Ragnarok.Inx said: »
Classic case of trying to close the gate after the horse has bolted. Making content more difficult after most strong groups have done it to death basically only penalizes those behind the curve already.
Ragnarok.Inx said: »
EDIT: Oh and aggravates those who put the work in to make a mythic... Alienating two groups with one move... genius for retention I don't think.
Nerfs suck. But to pretend like SMN doesn't have it coming or need it right now is pretty disconnected from reality. We would all prefer that SE invest time into boosting other jobs, 90% of the time. This is one of those 10% times where no, SMN needs a nerf. This ***is broken. It is getting abused.
And earlier you said that its not like everyone can get the mythic. Come on dude, there's 5-10k of us FFXI players left and Mythics are far easier, far less time consuming and more common than ever.
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I don't think SMN as a job needs a nerf. If they want to nerf something (doubt it will happen) they could nerf Astral Conduit.
Make so the JA lasts 45 secs but 5 secs cooldown?
That would probably be fast and easy to implement.
Or they could create a progressive damage reduction/resistance to the repeated use of the same BP, kinda like what happens with magic, but this would probably require more time to SE.
Regardless, if they really want to nerf something it's AC, not SMN job by itself, imho.
Make so the JA lasts 45 secs but 5 secs cooldown?
That would probably be fast and easy to implement.
Or they could create a progressive damage reduction/resistance to the repeated use of the same BP, kinda like what happens with magic, but this would probably require more time to SE.
Regardless, if they really want to nerf something it's AC, not SMN job by itself, imho.
Asura.Sechs said: »
Regardless, if they really want to nerf something it's AC, not SMN job by itself, imho.
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Asura.Sechs said: »
Make so the JA lasts 45 secs but 5 secs cooldown?
Ummm, that'd be a buff. Conduit only last 30secs as it is.
Chriscoffey said: »
How much harder would game be if I didn't have automation gearswaps and/or event/action based scripts to run?". That in and of itself is more broken than smn ever is.
Casters would take the biggest hit.
PLD - I don't really need GS for PLD. Windower/in-game macros are fine. A little more work but didn't have any tanking probs for 10+ years without gearswap.
Blazed1979 said: »
PUP is pretty bad ***.
Ah, so it's currently enjoying it's time in the sun? That's terrific. They deserve it!
Just going to leave this here http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GameBreaker
PUP is pretty fun for tanking roles once you gear it up and get master, it just suffers in the DMG department but let it be that way, if you give the master or the puppet too much DD power, its gonna be like the BST nerf with people calling the famous "but 1 job shouldnt be able to tank and dmg at the same time".
About SMN: I think the AF/AC combo is a bit OP since all you do is mash a button and see the mobs HP drop but there's also a lot of things that can screw your 30 second timer.
Avatars dont resist big hits well, amnesia kills the whole AC time making it useless, you actually need people that can do it well (i've suffered a guy in events who only did like 5 BPs during the AC timer because he was waiting for the animation to end or he'd just use chaotic strike lol), you also need the AM3 up (which requires nirvana) and also spend a good amount of gil/obtain the best gear like other jobs.
Btw those comments about SMNs doing 2m dmg during conduit during those 30 seconds, i think you are bumping up the number waaaay high, the last schah zerg i did (i was missing af1+2 to +3 and lugalbanda still but used af1+2 and gelos/esper) i got around 500k dmg with 10+ volt stikes and 650ish mp at the end with convert done, dmg was fluctuating around the 30-45k mark with bolster torpor/frailty and beast/drachen if i remember right (or beast/companion, forgot exactly), but even in the best of the scenarios where the mob doesnt do aoe amnesia (which schah and albumen can do AND you cant buff your pets to resist those) and you can get 20 pacts @ 45-50k each without the pet dieing, that's 1m dmg instead of the 2 everyone is calling, big difference here.
I dont expect a bit hit/nerf if anything on SMN, there's many other things that need a revamp like h2h being able to keep up with other DDs for example, i really feel sorry for career SMNs if they nerf it right now when it started to shine just a little.
About SMN: I think the AF/AC combo is a bit OP since all you do is mash a button and see the mobs HP drop but there's also a lot of things that can screw your 30 second timer.
Avatars dont resist big hits well, amnesia kills the whole AC time making it useless, you actually need people that can do it well (i've suffered a guy in events who only did like 5 BPs during the AC timer because he was waiting for the animation to end or he'd just use chaotic strike lol), you also need the AM3 up (which requires nirvana) and also spend a good amount of gil/obtain the best gear like other jobs.
Btw those comments about SMNs doing 2m dmg during conduit during those 30 seconds, i think you are bumping up the number waaaay high, the last schah zerg i did (i was missing af1+2 to +3 and lugalbanda still but used af1+2 and gelos/esper) i got around 500k dmg with 10+ volt stikes and 650ish mp at the end with convert done, dmg was fluctuating around the 30-45k mark with bolster torpor/frailty and beast/drachen if i remember right (or beast/companion, forgot exactly), but even in the best of the scenarios where the mob doesnt do aoe amnesia (which schah and albumen can do AND you cant buff your pets to resist those) and you can get 20 pacts @ 45-50k each without the pet dieing, that's 1m dmg instead of the 2 everyone is calling, big difference here.
I dont expect a bit hit/nerf if anything on SMN, there's many other things that need a revamp like h2h being able to keep up with other DDs for example, i really feel sorry for career SMNs if they nerf it right now when it started to shine just a little.
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Quote:
(which schah and albumen can do AND you cant buff your pets to resist those)
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I hope that these people who are always crying with the game, who wants everything easy, that if the summoner does a lot of damage, that because I can not do a mithic in a week, they all go to the end fantasy xiv to cry there, I As summoner that I've been playing for 14 years I've never complained that my job does less damage than another, I have not posted anywhere to ask nerfeen the job, this type of people hurt the game and what they should do is go to another Site, do not cry so much and play the game without giving the *** to others
I don't think anyone asking for SMN to be nerfed wants the game to be easy.. the game is easy with SMN as is, lol.
Ragnarok.Prats said: »
I hope that these people who are always crying with the game, who wants everything easy, that if the summoner does a lot of damage, that because I can not do a mithic in a week, they all go to the end fantasy xiv to cry there, I As summoner that I've been playing for 14 years I've never complained that my job does less damage than another, I have not posted anywhere to ask nerfeen the job, this type of people hurt the game and what they should do is go to another Site, do not cry so much and play the game without giving the *** to others
Hey, look it could be worse. You could still be living in the times of being asked to sub WHM and cure III main heal. =)
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Afania said: »
Quote:
(which schah and albumen can do AND you cant buff your pets to resist those)
Damn those RUN's and their overpowered SP's! Nerf them!
(Am I doing this right?)
Seriously though, what a job can do when burning all their SP's, under maximal buffs, is not representative of its overall performance.
Ergo, if a NM is susceptible to a zerg strategy (which are above all else, death or glory, chancy approaches that can fail as quickly as they succeed) the problem is with the encounter design, not the job that can exploit that.
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