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you are right saevel congration

Boot the healer.. wait 3 hours for a new one...

Use Apruru, would be better then someone refusing to do their job. That or get another GEO / BRD / SCH / RDM and have them do the healing.

No one made that argument. Sounded like a reasonable alternative to helping out a WHM. Cost being subjective.

Any melee should carry Remedies, Echoes if they cast anything, and whatever food is appropriate to the situation at all times. I carry antacids, antidotes, and a few panacea in my case as well, just because I might need them.

I also usually have enough to share with others who forgot. Not a big deal, it's going to happen.

That said, I prefer not to have to use these things. A WHM prioritizes. They have to. All of you who *** at your WHM need to realize that sometimes, you're not the current priority. If that's the case, meds exist for a reason. Please use them. Your healer won't be upset.

So many people don't even bother to thank each other during or after a run. I know that if I'm playing support, a thank you goes a long way with me.

Don't be *** to your support crew; without them, you're that dude who's claiming *** sparks clears solo.

;)

WHM shouldn't need to use an outside solution to remove the punishment they receieve for removing debuffs from someone else. It is supposed to be the most self-sufficient job at removing debuffs after all.

When you miss the slow with your erase among 5 debuffs after a sacrifice, it causes the whm to lose up to 4 opportunities to cure the tank or removing debuffs from the front line. Being punished for doing what you should when fighting a debuff machine is already enough burden on a healer and spamming sacrifice at one of those fights also mean you would have to spam panaceas too unless you are super lucky with erase.

When a WHM needs to sacrifice 3 slowed members, it means they need to deal with removing slow from themselves 3 times (because otherwise they would lose precious time to recast sacrifice) unless those 3 people spam panaeceas which would kill the purpose to sacrifice people anyway.

In the ideal world, everybody would carry lots of panaceas and other meds but we all know that is not the case and never will be. Even if they all become buyable for 1g per stack, there is still the inventory issues. I don't have time to pull them off other storage options when my tank needs cure, -na, sacrifice, sometimes simultanously.

I think I agree with Saevel and Ramzus at the same time, am I going crazy since they are arguing with each other?

Meds exist and shouldn't be ignored, and dispel/acc is a much bigger issue for DDs than debuffs are.
At the same time though this doesn't constitute a valid excuse for a healer to say "I'm not gonna -na! Use meds!"

Meds should be the last thing to resort to in an order of priority, the safety measure, the thing you do when all other things failed or are not viable.
When your WHM is busy -naing the tank or healing big damage or doing more important things.
But no way it's a valid excuse for him to avoid using -na.

And I could say the same for many other jobs who go /WHM at events and forget they can send powerful curagas, cureIV, hastes and nas around going "hey! My role is another here, there's a healer for that!"
Same exact (wrong) way of reasoning, imho.

I think its funny that he's bitching about the cost of panacea when people still piss away money for riverfin soups and sublime sushi. Gil isn't hard to make.

Roll and afk cor sub whm says hi.

DD piss away money for panacea is the same reason why they piss away money for soup.
If your whm can't remove slow(or para blind whatever) fast enough, every sec with slow on= lose DPS.

Back when we did delve with melee zerg, pretty much all of the DD had no problem with panacea because nobody want to lose parse.

Its funny that people wont bring needed meds because that's the whm's work, i agree its whm's work but all WHMs dont have a yagrush to remove stuff fast so helping the one keeping you alive is something to keep in mind.

If ppl QQ about panacea or regular meds for jobs like blu or dnc then what about bst? you have to keep master meds/food and pet related healing items as well and believe it, it really adds up very quick when you are doing stuff and the pet is tanking.

My opinnion: always be ready for what can happen, meds are dirt cheap now with curio around (well panaceas are expensive but still), success on events with a small cost is better than wiping because that slow or whatever screwed you.

Don't even get me started on WHM and haste cycles.
(Haste cycling priority, as in who is in charge of it, should be based on your party set up, and if you have a RDM > GEO > SCH/BLM-that's-not-stunning... Then they should take priority over the WHM. WHM is busy keeping your *** alive to keep haste up 100%. PreSoA, this was a nonissue. But given that everything now gives people 20 Erase-only debuffs... Yeah. WHM ain't got no time for your haste, cause they're casting erase 720000x.)

And 10000000000000000000x what Seekerstar said.
Don't be an ***.
Like this one time, I joined a shout for delve shark because the shouter said he just came back and I'm a nice person.
This was immediately after enmity change.
Not /war.
Tried to tell me that enmity wasn't changed and that damage can hold the hate off of his DT-less curing.
And all the while he was bitching at me for haste.
*** had double March AND GEO HASTE. (He demanded it.)
Needless to say... When we whiped... I dropped party after saying I had ***to do.
And that ***was not getting yelled at by an incompetent person who doesn't know magical haste cap combos, nor even bothered to check the last update. *** that guy.

WHM is petty much perfect, save for ALL THESE DEBUFFS ARE ERASE ONLY. Yagrush doesn't really help unless we're talking more than one frontline. And even then... 50 on 3 people with Yagrush is still 50x Erase.
(And I REALLY don't agree that erasega would ***on Yagrush... It's literally only Erase, which while that deals with the most statuses... It doesn't do the annoying ones like para and poison, which is where Yagrush really shines. Think undispellable ice spikes.
Does Winds of Promyvvion ***on Yagrush? No. Of course not. It only supplements it.
If anything, Erasega would wind up being just a third Erase.)

WHM is the hardest most stressful job in this game. Not because of the job itself or what it can/can't do but because of people not willing to help the WHM. As many have already stated have medicines at the very least have remedy antidote. If you cant afford them then you are not ready to do content. We actively require members to have Echo Remedy Food at all events and if they don't and are caught they do not get to lot. Its not a hard concept. Haste while nice is a luxury not a necessity when in this day and age you open SC and watch mob die rinse repeat. Our LS uses a mixture of melee MB but its very well understood that Melee are there to open the damage and let loose the ICBM team just waiting to see the big numbers.

Shorter version don't be an *** and help your WHM's when there are no more because you stressed them out then what are you going to do.

Just reminds me how much I love BLU. Winds of Promyvion and White Wind are so satisfying to cast. Yoran Oran is single cure only and I like having Koru+Qultada together for Dia III + Light shot, so I end up setting White Wind a lot.

I'm going to second this if only because it would be way less destabilizing for the game as a whole for SE to adjust the high-end fights so that melee can operate than to adjust melee calculations and get into the realm of unintended consequences/overshooting, which they pretty much always do when they *** with the math in either direction.

I mean, what would you rather see: a change to melee damage that makes everything sub-130 or so even easier for melee to completely crush, or just a statement of "there is no reason for any mob, NM or otherwise, to have more than about 1200 or 1250 evasion, and we're cutting debuff duration on players in half so that simply weathering them isn't a big deal"?

People rather outcast a person then try to teach them... instead play with ai in a mmo instead... instead of using meds... like gil is hard to come by... this isn't 2005... even then gil was easy to get

there is a very comprehensive list of ways to remove debuffs but you're labeled a troll if you don't agree with peoples shitty opinions.

1)vex/attune for land rate flooring

2)using divine caress (obviously does not apply to erase, but congration it lets you cast erase more without having to worry about an extra -na spell)

3)meds, if slow is really that important and you have multiple erasables on, just use a panancea

4)na spell->sacrifice to avoid ***like para/curse

5)giving your whm march/indi-haste/some form of capped magic haste so that their timers are actually good and erase spamming actually becomes a non-issue

6)your support also comes /whm (asides from COR since they actually do fairly decent damage.) BRD and GEO aren't doing shitall after they put up their buffs in a melee setup. if they don't come /whm and help with status removal then they are pretty lazy and/or bad

there really is nothing wrong with WHM. and if you don't want to use panaceas to remove slow and for some reason that extra 5 seconds of slow makes you lose, then maybe you were probably going to lose in the first place regardless

7) doing SC with sch only, problem fixed.

Good GEO's can debuff/buff, nuke and heal. Yeah the Geos who just cast bubbles and do nothing need to be enlightened. It's annoying when they can do more.

But that's not even addressing the crux of Geo's problem. Geo's need more MP to be steady back up healers and status removers. Can't exactly be on status removal when bubbles are getting smashed and there is a need for a high mp cost recast that may or may not have a Conserve MP/AF3 effect proc. Which is why /rdm is seen as useful for a geo who buffs/debuffs, nukes and heals.

I don't deny that, but that problem only really exists for non-RoV content now (is that just unity? I honestly don't remember) since you can buy a good 4-5 full MP pools worth of temp meds now

Also Conserve mp proc doesn't let you start casting with lower mp cost.


I agree with that list but in practice, spamming erase and/or sacrifice cripples the whm. It is just like being an amnesiac DD that can't do its main purpose.

This is probably one of the reasons why I usually am tapped to GEO for my LS in melee setups.

I do not just bubble and stand there.

I /RDM, yes. The bit of FC and especially Convert help me be more effective, because I debuff the mob and OMG CAST CURES AND HASTE.

It doesn't kill me. Sure, it costs MP. Who cares. If my cure helps my DDs live, then it's worth the MP.

Oh, and I keep my bubbles up, too. Even though it's a running joke about how much I /hate/ playing it, I do it right because that's what I need to do to have us win crap.

Geos, please don't just bubble unless you're a 2+ box.

A Japanese dev post mentions that Automatons will benefit from the damage update as well. Going by Google Translate, they said that the damage formula will match that of a BST pet. Unless I'm misinterpreting, it seems that they will be increasing the pDIF cap for melee/ranged/automaton to match what BST pets get.

I hope that means Avatars as well.
:<

I should hope so. If they remembered PUP, they probably remembered SMN.

I hope so.

Gogo 30k Predator Claws and Volt Strikes.

...wow.

Pet/monster pDIF caps at 4.0 iirc? Both noncrits and crits. Further trivializes old/low-tier content with attack buffs/defense debuffs, yet it doesn't really solve any of the issues I outlined with bringing melee to top-level content. Not a good change.

They'll finish it with "Our melee adjustment is now Store TP also increases the amount of TP fed to a monster as well. Please look forward to it."

Incoming subtle blow sets!

Still amuses me that of all the traits out there, BLU can't set Subtle Blow. Too OP.