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Dev Tracker - news, discussions
Fenrir.Snaps
Serveur: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1139
By Fenrir.Snaps 2017-11-03 14:21:23
He wasn't using BiS WAR gear because his SMN example wasn't either. SMN is still easier to gear because it doesn't go beyond a few moderately pricey drops and a couple of abj. Even if you don't assume BiS for WAR you still need Omen boss drops, a whole mission line complete and also some moderately pricey gear. That's ignoring the fact that the WAR setup needs way more support (1 BRD, 2 GEO, 2 outside COR) than the SMN method (1 COR, 1 GEO) with no chance of getting *** by bad TP moves due to being out of range.
There's a mix of newer and older players using the SMN method. You shouldn't be able to kill Schah in 40 seconds with a shout group. I'll eat a sock if you can find me a shout WAR group killing it before the mechanics begin.
I'd be legit interested to try zerging it down with DD our next Aeonic round though, I didn't realize it was 90 seconds of not being immune, I thought it was only 60.
You 100% do not need Omen drops or pricey gear to succeed on WAR zergs. Ambuscade gear some reforged and Moonshade earring should be enough if you have good support.
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6052
By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2017-11-03 14:24:21
We aren't talking about 'succeeding on WAR zergs'. We're talking about zerging Schah before mechanics start. I have yet to see anyone successfully do that with any gear, you tried to suggest it could be done with less gear acquisition than SMN:
Fenrir.Snaps said: Also I'm pretty sure a good WAR Zerg could clear schah in 90 seconds. WAR is actually easier to gear than SMN too, it just requires a bit more support and skill. If SMN were nerfed people would just start using that instead.
If you can show me WARs without omen gear or HQ abjs zerging Schah, I'd be happy to reconsider my position. Frankly, I'd be interested to see any WARs zerging it before adds.
Fenrir.Ramzus
Serveur: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1387
By Fenrir.Ramzus 2017-11-03 14:26:06
General WAR zergs, sure. But we're talking about Schah that has a strict time limit. I'm not closed to the idea that they CAN'T do it, but I also don't think it's as easy as you say it is. Like I said, I'll eat my sock if you can find me a pickup group killing it with as much ease as a SMN pickup group.
Shiva.Spynx
Serveur: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 371
By Shiva.Spynx 2017-11-03 14:27:41
He wasn't using BiS WAR gear because his SMN example wasn't either. SMN is still easier to gear because it doesn't go beyond a few moderately pricey drops and a couple of abj. Even if you don't assume BiS for WAR you still need Omen boss drops, a whole mission line complete and also some moderately pricey gear. That's ignoring the fact that the WAR setup needs way more support (1 BRD, 2 GEO, 2 outside COR) than the SMN method (1 COR, 1 GEO) with no chance of getting *** by bad TP moves due to being out of range.
There's a mix of newer and older players using the SMN method. You shouldn't be able to kill Schah in 40 seconds with a shout group. I'll eat a sock if you can find me a shout WAR group killing it before the mechanics begin.
I'd be legit interested to try zerging it down with DD our next Aeonic round though, I didn't realize it was 90 seconds of not being immune, I thought it was only 60. Most people are forgetting a very important detail. Blood pact are not only ridiculously strong and safe to use but also do not feed TP. The likelyhood of Banneret Charge + any AoE or Enthrall or Malign Invocation (RUN 1h can probably prevent Amnesia tho) is incredibly high before a zerg kill is completed and if you are attempting to kill in 90 seconds these is no recovery from one of those going off.
Asura.Syto
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 446
By Asura.Syto 2017-11-03 18:51:17
It's not balanced .. but oh well, the damage was done many months ago.
The damage is still being done, on all content future content. Until it's fixed all content will be trivial due to SMN AC zergs.
No it won't because people still have a choice. Stop making it seem like everyone will steal your thunder just because they are killing content a different way that what YOU think is best...
Groups that want to do it any other way than the SMN AC Method will still gain great respect and probably have great enjoyment in their own way..
Your ideals of how a game should be beaten is your own. Stop making it seem like a crisis. SE doesn't agree with you until they Nerf it.. it didn't impact them that much or they would of nerfed it.
Even JP were expressing concern on official forums for a long time until they even gave up. SE would of responded to the JP if they thought it wasn't aligned with their ideals for their game..
We all know how fast they respond to JPs concerns vs NA..
Yet here we still are. No Nerf.
Either they do it this next update or never..
Asura.Saevel
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9916
By Asura.Saevel 2017-11-03 19:16:32
And we can tell who's abusing SMN by the degree of touchiness surrounding it.
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Asura.Eiryl
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
By Asura.Eiryl 2017-11-03 19:31:44
It's like you people literally play a different game.
ITT: "it's not broken, square would've fixed it by now"
SE: "geo was broken for 2 entire years, we finally adjusted it"
Did you already forget that just happened a couple months ago? Geo was known to be broken and left unadjusted for 2 entire years.
Siren.Kyte
Serveur: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3332
By Siren.Kyte 2017-11-03 19:33:18
I don't think they actually noticed whatever calculation issue they had (I think those spells were using +% rather than a flat value?) until a couple months before they fixed it.
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Asura.Syto
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 446
By Asura.Syto 2017-11-03 19:33:48
We are only on year 1 then. 1 more year left!
Lol..
Asura.Eiryl
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
By Asura.Eiryl 2017-11-03 19:35:12
And how insanely stupid is it to leave that unchecked for two whole years? That's impossible to believe.
By clearlyamule 2017-11-03 19:35:42
It's not balanced .. but oh well, the damage was done many months ago.
The damage is still being done, on all content future content. Until it's fixed all content will be trivial due to SMN AC zergs.
Whoa there I hate how it's cheesing things as much as anyone but all content is a bit much. For single hard fights sure maybe... though all is probably a stretch. But you don't zerg progressive content like Omen and how D Dynamis most likely will be.
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By clearlyamule 2017-11-03 19:38:24
I don't think they actually noticed whatever calculation issue they had (I think those spells were using +% rather than a flat value?) until a couple months before they fixed it. That's when they knew what the problem was.
People had been reporting that that the differences between geo spells and similar effects other spells other jobs had were much greater than what we had been told since they released the numbers quite a while before that
Phoenix.Brixy
Serveur: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
By Phoenix.Brixy 2017-11-03 19:43:18
I abuse summoner every day and I'm more than fine with a nerf, as long as they don't MNK us. It won't be able to steamroll stuff anymore, but Summoner still has plenty of useful tools even if it lost conduit. It wouldn't be the first time they butchered something about the job (Hi Odin!). People need to stop being so negative and explore options other than pressing 1 button every 20 seconds.
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Leviathan.Sidra
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 334
By Leviathan.Sidra 2017-11-03 19:49:10
SMN Zerg is definitely OP as hell. But at this point, I really don't see why it matters. In order for something to bother me, it has to hinder my enjoyment of the game, and this just doesn't. The game is 15 years old. It's not a competitive game, there are no more firsts or server races for things.
I have recent mele wins of Vini, Zerde, and Schah. People can play the game however they want. If someone on my server is rocking every Aeonic who doesn't have the gear or skillset to beat some of the hardest NM without it, so what? How does that impact me or my gameplay experience? I'm honestly just happy they are paying a subscription fee.
Siren.Kyte
Serveur: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3332
By Siren.Kyte 2017-11-03 19:50:57
I don't think they actually noticed whatever calculation issue they had (I think those spells were using +% rather than a flat value?) until a couple months before they fixed it. That's when they knew what the problem was.
People had been reporting that that the differences between geo spells and similar effects other spells other jobs had were much greater than what we had been told since they released the numbers quite a while before that
I'm aware, but that's not really the point.
Asura.Cair
VIP
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 246
By Asura.Cair 2017-11-03 20:03:45
I think it'd be good enough if they just went forward making content that's not suited to the minimal effort an AC burn takes. It's not too difficult ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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By clearlyamule 2017-11-03 20:28:55
I don't think they actually noticed whatever calculation issue they had (I think those spells were using +% rather than a flat value?) until a couple months before they fixed it. That's when they knew what the problem was.
People had been reporting that that the differences between geo spells and similar effects other spells other jobs had were much greater than what we had been told since they released the numbers quite a while before that
I'm aware, but that's not really the point. Oh I thought you were responding to Eiryl and that was kind of his point
Siren.Kyte
Serveur: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3332
By Siren.Kyte 2017-11-03 20:34:41
The point is SMN is overpowered by a series of poorly considered buffs to the job that were considered only in isolation, while GEO was overpowered due to actual incorrect coding and once they realized that, it was (probably, I mean I'm not a dev so I can't know for sure) fixed relatively quickly.
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By clearlyamule 2017-11-03 20:52:14
Ah see that's where I disagree. They knew there was a problem for a long time.
They finally got around to figuring out the exactly what was going wrong recently but once they did they yeah fixed it fast.
And that's kind of on par with them. They will know of and even acknowledge problems long before they get to figuring out what exactly is causing it (assuming they ever actually do lol). Additional effects accuracy was probably the best/worst example of this.
But yeah I agree was a different method of broken. Regardless I agree with Eiryl's idea that SE's lack of action means nothing as far an indication of whether something is broken. Just look at the 21 pages of unresolved accepted bugs going back to 2013 lol. Or the automaton ws bug the jp side reported several months back... a few times. Got asked for more and was provided written instructions on how to cause it AND a video showing.... and last I saw they just deleted all posts related to it and asked them not to be posted again lol.
Ramuh.Austar
Serveur: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10481
By Ramuh.Austar 2017-11-03 21:12:50
but they fixed the beetle foot, right?
Leviathan.Andret
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1008
By Leviathan.Andret 2017-11-03 23:44:34
Meh you guys think that SE is a US charity or something?
The process probably goes something like this:
Engineer/Employee: Boss, we have this problem.
Boss: *Looks* Let me think about it.
-- a few days later --
Boss: What are your opinions?
Employee1: *pretends to think*
Employee2: Maybe we can do this?
Boss: Engineer-kun, what do you think?
Engineer: Maybe we can try this?
Boss: How long would that take?
Engineer: If you give me a 2-man team then I can get it done by next update.
Boss: Yeah, let's hold that for a while and see how things turn out. But put that on the schedule when you have free time. Now, you guys go work on that FFXIV problem. Now, I have a meeting with the mobile division.
Everyone: Yes boss.
-- a few months later --
Engineer: Boss, I got it done during coffee time. Should work. I think.
Boss: Alright, put it on next update as long as it doesn't break anything.
Leviathan.Katriina
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 860
By Leviathan.Katriina 2017-11-04 04:13:33
SMN Zerg is definitely OP as hell. But at this point, I really don't see why it matters. In order for something to bother me, it has to hinder my enjoyment of the game, and this just doesn't. The game is 15 years old. It's not a competitive game, there are no more firsts or server races for things.
I have recent mele wins of Vini, Zerde, and Schah. People can play the game however they want. If someone on my server is rocking every Aeonic who doesn't have the gear or skillset to beat some of the hardest NM without it, so what? How does that impact me or my gameplay experience? I'm honestly just happy they are paying a subscription fee.
You definitely hit the nail on this Sidra, 100% agree with your stance!
This argument by itself propagates the notion of "Mediocre"[Merc Groups 2-3 SMN RUN COR GEO] being competitive with Seasoned [12-18] "packeted" mules [1-3 Man-show each controlling 6 or more!] and NOT with actual alliance full of real players!
When "some of-not all" these decked out "players" get threatened by their source of infinite Gil they start pulling the moral high ground and request Nerfs claiming that this is breaking the game when "they" themselves use every possible way to gain their clears/mercs with third party programs and/or possible hacks.
Dedicated players will actually invest every possible gear set for their favorite jobs regardless of who is around them. and will definitely skip AC burns if they actually want to enjoy the game.
The days of [Who farmed more Weapons are over] and this argument is laughable to be honest, most people know exactly why some are calling for nerf.
Be that as it may, this won't stop anyone from getting all REMA for their favorite jobs just because some "mediocre player" who doesn't even have gear for their Aeonic -and probably will never use it- got it!
Heck, I don't even mind carrying "Mediocre Players" to get Aeonics with our runs because they will never affect my subscription/immersing FFXI experience.
AC/AF is broken thats 1000% accurate, yet the incentives of outrage holds so many nuances and some of these nuances are heavily related to [Merc Gil Groups] and sadly they are currently the loudest to call for nerf.
Disclaimer: so many of the presented arguments are valid and should be considered when discussing this rationally yet remember that some people do have a narrative to push here simply because it affects them directly.
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Asura.Eiryl
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
By Asura.Eiryl 2017-11-04 04:47:30
I just want to make this clear, don't pursue this post.
I do not merc. I will -never- make a nirvana. And I have never used a smn group to clear any content. And never will.
Just want to put that out there. be angry if you want to. I say nerf SMN because it's imbalanced, (obviously), not for any personal gain. I was one of the original people for the GEO "fix" I'm pro "immanence death is broken as ***" and BLU should still be nerfed too for various reasons.
On topic; When garbage players have unearned shinies, it DOES affect you. Whether you believe it or not. You can choose to pretend it doesn't, but don't try to claim it doesn't.
By Ruaumoko 2017-11-04 05:17:03
The sheer OP state of SMN zerging is one of the reasons I unsubbed, not the only one, but it was one of them.
Just not much point doing content when people can just mash one button and win.
By Chimerawizard 2017-11-04 05:36:50
Just not much point doing content when people can just mash one button and win. I used to mash one button until Dynamis Lord was dead (stun). was this wrong?
I used to pop perfect defense and watch NMs quickly die. this was also wrong?
I used to pop Modus Veritas at the same time as several other scholars and watch something die <20s later. this was definitely wrong, and yet so right.
Some things were adjusted, modus veritas, while others became obsolete as level caps increased.
not saying smn shouldn't get fixed.
By Numquam 2017-11-04 06:38:50
Why hate on BLUs still? I like my BLU. I've invested in sets...crappy ones, but meh. I'm not the CDC zerggy type, I love messing around trying to figure out multi-step WSs. I learned to tank pretty effectively in CP parties. I'm still trying to deck out my counter set..orcish counterstance is awesome. BLU is annoyingly strong when it gets pushed past the CDC rage, but meh. I don't want to get nerfed because I enjoy it too much. :(
Asura.Shyara
Serveur: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 40
By Asura.Shyara 2017-11-04 07:07:18
The sheer OP state of SMN zerging is one of the reasons I unsubbed, not the only one, but it was one of them.
Just not much point doing content when people can just mash one button and win.
Ruau you must come back I misses you! And our lowman 'letstrytosmashthisNMintheface" strategies.
#TeamAwesome
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Hi.
Dev tracker is a kind of feed in Official Forum that highlight (in the left side bar) posts from development team to players demands, questions and sugestion. Given that those answers are given by someone who effectively works with the deveopment of this game, they can be considered as official and true.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/forum.php
The japanese side of OF has its own dev tracker, that normally is way more active and detailed than english side. If someone feel like translating it to bring the info, feel welcomed too.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/search.php?searchid=15480698
BG site has one specific topic just to publish and discuss those official answers, and i think ffxiah lacks something similar as not everyone here check BG or OF, so lots of details/dev opinion are missed. So, thats the point of this topic, anyone who see new info in dev tracker feeds, quote it here, and start a discussion if you feel like.
Starting now, a couple of new dev posts were released after march update annoucement. Here they are:
Trust changes
Quote: [dev1261] Alter Ego Adjustments
It will be possible to summon alter egos in the following content.
Walk of Echoes
Wanted battles
It will be possible to summon alter egos in the following mission battlefields.
Wings of the Goddess missions
When Wills Collide / Maiden of the Dusk
It will be possible to summon alter egos for the following quest battlefields.
Wings of the Goddess quests
Champion of the Dawn / The Dawn Also Rises / A Forbidden Reunion
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Dev answer to a sugestion to add new ways to obtain dusk type of alluvion skirmish stone.
Quote: Since dusk-type stones were just implemented, we'd like players to do alluvion skirmishes to obtain them, so there are no plans to add the ability to trade other items for these stones at the moment.
However, we'll look into increasing the amount in circulation and the means of obtaining them in some way in a future version update.
Monster rearing news:
Quote: [dev1262] Mog Garden Adjustments
Monster Rearing will undergo the following adjustments.
A monster's mood will no longer degrade from "beaming with pure contentment" after collecting items or interacting with the monster.
The collective moods of all creatures will generate auras of light or darkness that affects them all.
Light
When the number of creatures beaming with pure contentment is greater than that succumbing to darkness, all creatures’ contentment and mood are increased.
Darkness
When the number of creatures succumbing to darkness is greater than that beaming with pure contentment, all monsters' contentment and mood are decreased.
The following information will be displayed when entering your Mog Garden.
The number of days left on assistants’ contracts.
The current affinity of the Mog Garden.
Mog garden gathering points will undergo the following adjustments.
It will be possible to scrap any unwanted flotsam directly without receiving it in cases where the player’s inventory is full or he is otherwise unable to recover it.
Sugestion about blu traits having aditional tier info.
Quote: This is something that is difficult for us to address at the moment as we would have to send data each time you open the menu to see which tier you currently have. We're concerned about this largely affecting UI response time.
Similarly the same holds true for saving the data client-side as well. Since all of the trait data for this would have to be saved, it would consume large amounts of memory, which also makes this feature difficult to implement.
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