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Thing is though, if you are constantly revit-ing via MMM or Cactus, its not just the dps advantage of the SMN getting reset, its the entire group, support, tanks etc. Burning who's SP's is equally crucial to the success of the zerg.

Not to mention the small fact that if you have to do this prior to every fight, its adding up to considerably more than 30seconds per win!

Dude, we don't always agree on stuff but I agree with this. SMN has been crapped on a lot (or just forgotten) over the years. Left out in the cold for the bards, red mages, geomancers & beastmasters .. there's always been jobs which have provided better buffs/damage with less gear requirements.

If SE really, really wanted to nerf SMN, they would have done it at the same time as they changed BST. But they didn't .. and it's probably because you need to gear SMN decently to make use of that strategy. It's not like RMTs can show up decked out in Sparks gear and beat T4s.

SMN setups aren't the only ones that utilize SPs, lol

I have only done SMN burn once. Some friends helped me get Schah clear after one of our RNG setups timed out. I think the game is more enjoyable when you clear content the way you want to clear it, which is why we'll MNK some of our next T4. Personally I don't find satisfaction in the SMN burn method, but I think other people might enjoy the power trip. If they also just like an easy path for aeonic weapons I don't see an issue with it. We can still clear content many other ways. It doesn't affect what I do for the most part. It isn't quite balanced, sure, but I feel like most of the time people ask for a nerf they're not looking for balance they're looking to try and take something from others that they don't use, like, or otherwise competes with them.

I wonder if I can skip buying hq crimson mask for rdm now that relic might be coming out next update...

Also a ilvl mujin band would be awesome... and shadow ring etc

Also I'm pretty sure a good WAR Zerg could clear schah in 90 seconds. WAR is actually easier to gear than SMN too, it just requires a bit more support and skill. If SMN were nerfed people would just start using that instead.

That's the point.

Take away Odyllic and chances of success in an AC/AF zerg drop off sharply. Take away bolstered bubbles and it falls to practically zero. It requires more than just the smn to burn both their SP's in a single "sh*t or bust" 30 second burst.

Nerf The Melee Before It's Too Late! Oh wait .. someone already said this. /sigh

relic body for sam would be awesome as well...

But i have a feeling its just gonna to be 1 slot per zone...

There is an almost absolute certainty that D-D-SAN will be feet only.

Which is ok cause the only piece I really care about is how sexy those THF feet are going to be!

Omg yessss....

Thf feet will be amazing

Maybe possible. One amnesia would make sure it didn't happen, though, and odyllic won't guarantee the full 90 seconds uninterrupted.

Downright false.

Gridarvor/elan+1/x/sancus+1
apogee+1/empath/gelus/esper
AF1+?? or AF3 or apogee/merlinic/varar/varar
amb/incarnation/apogee+1/apogee+1

Grid - 2m
elan +1 - 10m
sancus +1 - 20m
apogee+1 x3 - ~40m, dropping
varar x2 - ~5m, dropping
incarnation sash - vagary, easy
amb cape - easy, war needs 2 of em
empath - 100% drop from easy nm
gelus - few hour quest line
esper earring - 2 hours farming soloable content

All together, a passable SMN needs about 80m and ~10-20hours of farming misc content. 3 SMNs wearing this gear WILL be able to kill Schah in 30 seconds, problem free.


To make that remotely feasible on WAR, you'd need pretty close to maxed tp/ws:

Zulfiqar/utu grip/x/ginsen
flamma+2/ainia/telos/brutal
emicho+1/emicho+1/stp/stp
amb/ioskeha/odyssean/af+3

and for ws:

zulfiqar/utu/x/seething
flamma+2/fotia/moonshade/cessance
argosy+1/argosy+1/shukuyu/ifrit+1
amb/fotia/argosy+1/flamma+2

Again, this is a pretty scaled back set. I'm not demanding omen rings, hq ioskeha, or even a RME. I have my doubts a group of WARs geared like this could even win. But, you're still looking at over 200m in abj gear, at least 1 preferably 2-3 omen boss drops, wotg completed, 3-4x more ambuscade, and other significantly more time consuming gear.

For a starting or returning player, it's not even in the same league. If you already have an up to date melee job, WAR might seem easier to gear, but that's not a realistic assessment. If you have an up to date melee job, you've probably already done your aeonics with a real configuration.

I hate to be that guy, but I wouldn't hope too much just yet. You never know with SE .. it's very possible they might make some pieces useless or only marginally better than AF+3s. The power would come from being awesome macro pieces for abilities, but I might be wrong .. they could be so strong that AF+3s become obsolete. We'll just have to wait and see.

You are def being that guy

c

My bad :( lol. I just don't like to hope too much when it comes to SE .. they've let us down one too many times.

It's fine lol

most likey the truth

So, conduit burn is still significantly faster and safer than literally every other method? Got it.

Or could be like old Dynamis, 3 pieces spread across 4 cities then glacier and xarc for last 2. Spread it across a year, respect the hustle.

That is because SMN, like BST, PUP and others are niche jobs. A niche job is one who's generally underwhelming outside of a specific niche, inside that niche they are absolutely amazing. A SMN is capable of dealing large amounts of hate-free damage at a safe distance while exploiting elemental weakness's. In melee, mage and ranged setups they aren't great, but in pet focused setups they are godlike. Not many situations call for a pet focused setup, but for those that do SMN is an animal.

Most MMO's try not to create niche jobs because that tends to exclude those that play them, yet FFXI with its' diverse job systems allows you to actively play multiple jobs and thus can side step the negative effects of niche jobs. Except with SMN AC zerging that whole dynamic is thrown into the trash and every situation is that niche situation which displaces nearly every other job in the game.

Want to try something really funny, go

PUP (tank)
GEO x 1~2
COR
SMN x 2~3

Can do really silly ***that way, without abusing SMN AC zerging. Have the pets do SC's and bursts if possible.

Sorry but no, you are greatly mistaken in this, on the last aeonic i did with smn we were 2 decked out smns and a nq smn as you described (and he was master), on albumen he didnt got past the 100k dmg mark, on schah was a bit better (around the 150k mark) and on the rest he was either starting late (and we were in discord giving signal when to odylic and start lol) or screwing up so no, you need more things than a grivardor and nq varars to kill T4s.

Some people here are talking crapshit about smn and trying to make those playing it stupid and bad players when the fact is jobs like war mnk rng and basically any DD are the easiest thing in this game, heck even i that never played rng used prime's ranger for 1 of his albumens and parsed 2nd to the "best ranger in ranga" and i was using >3< macros so dont come to me with biased BS.

Melee jobs need more support? yes, AC burning is broken? yes as i posted in my previous post but underlooking people for using this strat is stupid, AC isnt the only thing a smn does, i wouldnt bring any DD to events 135 and lower if i can bring my smn or an equal smn and if i can kill escha crap with a smn setup quick then i wont bring DDs either, if you feel a bit butthurt because people use SMNs that's your problem really.

And finally, how many groups are there using smn as their primary way of killing aeonic stuff? because in ragna there's 0 of my knowledge right now, some people put it as if there were 300 smns in every server or something jesus.

P.S.: On this video, minute 2:05, the first 3 were summoner, the 3 with nirvana, first 2 with HQ gear (i was missing kei ear) and third with nq gear so yes, there's a big gap and this is nirvana with am3, now put the oboro weapon there.

We did something similar in one of the omen zones. At least players know we don't necessarily need SMN burning to beat the hardest content. It's quicker .. less riskier, but it's not the only way to beat them. It's not like every Aeonic group needs a few summoners to build them .. it's just a quicker/safer option for those who either can't deal with mechanics, or want to sell clears. It's not balanced .. but oh well, the damage was done many months ago.

THF feet are gonna be from D-D-Jeuno, released 6 months from now.

The damage is still being done, on all content future content. Until it's fixed all content will be trivial due to SMN AC zergs.

SE said something about "new gimmicks" in dynamis. What if they add bosses which somehow negates summoners? Or at least make moves which give summoners a hard time (aoe silence every 20 seconds with 60 yalm range!), so it's still doable but requires workarounds. Sometimes it's easier to make enemies smarter than it is to nerf all the things.

We've seen evidence of this in recent ambuscades. That fight where you couldn't use GEO bubbles, BRD songs, COR rolls, or SMNs avatars favor was an interesting one.

Your BiS WAR sets are off.

ItemSet 353813
ItemSet 353814
ItemSet 353815


Your argument is also totally flawed. You're comparing the difficulty of acquiring BiS WAR gear to walmart SMN gear. You don't need BiS WAR gear. You could use mostly Ambuscade gear and a few reforged pieces and zerg every fight easily except for maybe Schah although with 4 WAR it's probably still possible. You can kill the Bhata to buy a little bit more time.

You're also looking at this from the perspective of the new player which isn't that congruent with who actually does AC burns. Most of them are old players mercing it out. Those types of people (as you pointed out) already have most of this WAR gear.

So, while I get the point of that video was to display the damage disparity between SMN gear...

The NQ SMN still doubled the damage of Primex's extraordinarily well geared Warrior.

Never disagreed with you on anything except this.
My WAR lua loads 282 items, my SMN Lua loads 139.
Before I quit, SMN was missing a couple of +2 AF pieces.
WAR was missing a few specific situation peices for MS and elemental ws's. Both jobs were capable of bringing down anything(almost absolute perfection, including some ridiculous DM WSDMG+10% augments) in the game and were consistently on top.

He wasn't using BiS WAR gear because his SMN example wasn't either. SMN is still easier to gear because it doesn't go beyond a few moderately pricey drops and a couple of abj. Even if you don't assume BiS for WAR you still need Omen boss drops, a whole mission line complete and also some moderately pricey gear. That's ignoring the fact that the WAR setup needs way more support (1 BRD, 2 GEO, 2 outside COR) than the SMN method (1 COR, 1 GEO) with no chance of getting *** by bad TP moves due to being out of range.

There's a mix of newer and older players using the SMN method. You shouldn't be able to kill Schah in 40 seconds with a shout group. I'll eat a sock if you can find me a shout WAR group killing it before the mechanics begin.

I'd be legit interested to try zerging it down with DD our next Aeonic round though, I didn't realize it was 90 seconds of not being immune, I thought it was only 60.

Can we just agree that if you want to use any job to a high level .. it needs to be pretty well geared? You ain't going to take a sparks gear WHM to T4s as much as you won't take a Warrior with less than 1k accuracy for Kirin. All jobs require time, effort, luck (augments), and money to be great. It's not a competition, there's no gold medals for the jobs which are more reliant on the greatest gear.

At this point, a New gimmick could be like dream zones of old, Must kill certain things to lock out or unlock /ja /spells etc. Could also be simple as time trials like Omen is now. Do this before time runs out and get a TE, could be insta random warp and you must solo your own way to a camp with mobs specific to your job in the way. Make it like salvage was, and unlock pathos with drops from starter mobs. Must kill a certain way to unlock something or pass something.
Gets me thinking more and more about Relic trials, Kill 1 type a certain number of times, now do that ws a certain number of times.

Will be interesting.