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I did Mandau regardless of the changes or not. I still main Mandau and will always main it. I worked hard for it. I don't have any buyer's remorse but I do believe it needs a boost in all honesty. It does lack in the WS and various boost department (Aftermath and aura etc) in comparison to other legendaries. The fact a capped Taming Sari or a well augmented Skinflayer is on par with a legendary weapon in general seems a bit silly but that's just me.

Mandau wasn't good when I played 6 years ago.
It's even worse now.
Kinda lame.

The discussion was about fixing weapon skills not "damage boost", the formula as is now makes [2 handed jobs] weapon skills laughable vs. [single handed jobs] don't cut and paste whatever you like out of context to gain attention, people here are older now :) its not 2006 anymore.

Conceptually speaking and based on Job Descriptions/mechanics, its really not logical for a sword to beat a great axe in terms of weapon skills and definitely should not "Miss" that often.

Weaponskill Acc. Augument{DO you need it?}

Aside from all that, I believe SE will target H2H "Weapon Type" jobs if we read specifically, and by extension "maybe" GK and GA

Yeah, way to go for hinting I'm immature or seeking attention when I questioned your reason to ask for WAR and SAM boost, idk who is seeking attention here.

If your concern about 2h is legit then you could just explain it, but you didn't, instead just trying to shift focus by claiming I'm seeking attention.

Last time I checked, resolution is still possibly the strongest WS out there, I still fail to see why they are "laughable", WAR and SAM still top parse, exactly what kind of buff do you want?

More than fixing WAR, they need to fix damage types like they said.
And to be fair fixing the damage of some WS would be even easier and probably enough.

Like for H2H, if they raise the FTP or damage of some WS, MNK and PUP are already gonna get on a MUCH better position than they are now.
They don't need to become the best DD in the game, just more viable than they are now (hint: they're not viable atm)

About WAR I dunno, it's clear its damage isn't up to par to other DDs, but at the same time if you use SP1 and spam Resolution with Ragnarok WAR likely becomes the best DD in the game for that 1 minute.
I would like for them to tweak WAR damage for sure, but at the same time I don't want their SP1 with Resolution to become even more retardedly broken than it is now.

I think SAM too doesn't really need anything special other than tweaks to the WS damage formula.


The rest of the DDs in the game seems in a nice position to me. Yeah yeah yeah people will whine about BLU here and BLU there, but I think while not perfect the situation is more than acceptable for DDs like NIN, DNC, DRK, THF, COR. I can't talk about RNG of course.

I'm not math expert, are there any math experts out there that can math out sword, Katana and 2h WS avg under ideal conditions? If not I'll run updated spreadsheet tomorrow for it. Instead of just playing the "if you disagree with me you're just seeking attention" card it only make more sense to just write the numbers out.

Because you guys claim about WAR being "not on par" with other DPS is just very different from what parse suggested, even without MS. Dagger jobs may* deal more dps in a short amount of time with JAs. Otherwise I don't see 2h DD being THAT behind.

You're either living in a parallel universe or you missed the point here completely, don't come and compare a GS WAR with everyone else spamming Resolution under 2 min and say WAR is okay.
You failed to point out the issues these jobs face with weapon types they are supposed to "excel" at [GA,GK and H2H]

The average output from these "weapon types" when it comes to pure WS is lower than Sword, Dagger and even Katana due to its horrible outdated formula like Sechs mentioned above.

Please do run your spreadsheets on GA,GK vs Sword and get back to us on that if you think it would help, but for now my stance remains the same.

Anyways, so I decided to check spreadsheet reallly quick with giving both blu and war same buffs. Some of my sets probably aren't ideal as I have no time to optimize it.

Almace sequence blu:4681 dps, 27990 ws avg
Ragnarok war none MS: with blood rage not warcry 5327 dps 20859 ws avg.
With warcry 6355 27075.

All use HQ armors.

My numbers may be somewhat off since I spent like 5 min to check and pretty sure sets and spells aren't optimized, and CDC turns out avg higher so I'll give you at that. But as you can see, even with ws avg being lower, if you look at the overall dps 2h is still a bit ahead. And that's without MS.

I haven't check SAM but last time when I spoke to someone SAM should be on the same lv as WAR.

So it turns into a situation that people are yelling for "2h ws fix" or "dmg type fix" because 2h ws dmg is "laughable", I see if SE really buff 2h ws then those jobs would dominate parse even further.

Anyways, feel free to discuss job balance with numbers, or point out if my numbers are way off(it's not optimized after all).

See my above post, even if sword avg higher it doesn't make 2h DD fall behind in terms of overall dmg.

So how are you going to "balance" 2h WS like GK? Seems to me that if you buff them they're just gonna parse higher.

Also last time I checked GA war are still viable as well.

Again, you tested on GS and not GA or GK.
But even with that the WS showed you its lower than "sword" average and from a conceptual point this is wrong.

No one is yelling for a fix, the mere fact that SE suggested these "weapon type" fixes shows you enough evidence to support these claims about WS design for 2 handed jobs.

P.S not everything revolves around numbers, mechanics are far more important and its really logical for 2 handed jobs to "dominate" prase. and thats coming from a career dancer btw.

SAM and GA are pretty ***on AV2 last I remember but being 3rd place is better than no place in a parse of 3 DDs.

There are no real wrong with that from game design pov. You think it's wrong simply because 1h has been sucking for years. We are all used to living in 75 era where 1h isn't even viable DD. So when 1h start to compete we feel it's wrong.

But logically it isn't. From what Ive seen 2h still TP faster and ended up parse higher, but not to the point to make 1h unviable, unlike 75 era. That's balance.

I guess in this game no one is ever happy, when 2h dominate the parse in 75 era people yell for 1h dmg boost. Now 2h jobs and 1h are a lot closer, dealing same lv of dps and people say it's only logical for 2h to "dominate" the parse?

You really need to watch this video to check your facts again about prase being "close" when a THF dominates DPS on Schah.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbvQkH3NnbU

Not that its wrong or something, but from a design point of view:
A GA,GK and Scythe need a change to ws formulas.
NOT TO MENTION POOR MNK!

Schah melee parses are notoriously unreliable due to amnesia oftentimes hitting only some of the DDs, causing a massive skew in favor of the other. They even mentioned this in their thread.

Also, parses just are not great sources of information for DPS comparisons. You have zero idea the level of gearing each individual job has, nor do you know to what extent they optimize their DPS. Are they using JAs at inopportune time causing undue delay? Are they saving TP past the point where they should? Far too many factors come into play to make a definitive statement on DPS potential. If you're looking for optimal DPS calculations, the best tool I can suggest would be a spreadsheet for each and every job.

I love how people base their opinions about dps hierarchy because they watched a video, or play with friends clearly excel at certain job but don't excel at other jobs, then based their opinion about dps hierarchy on that.

This x10000. When someone mentioned WAR isn't on par but DRK is okay, I feel that person just happened to have DRK friends excel at that job but don't have war friends excel at that job.

Majority of players have well geared BLU, majority of players have well geared THF.(Pretty much everyone in my network plays THF as their only melee DPS and idk why). Top tier WAR and SAM are so rare and that gives people impression those job suck.

Personally, I'm not convinced. Also EMA GAs are still pretty strong option for WAR, I haven't check numbers but they shouldn't be laughable either.

Granted , Spreadsheets are the better option of course.
Yet in action and during play you're going under tremendous factors that should also be taken into consideration when it comes to the said conditions.

He/She mentioned the prase method not I and my argument revolved around WS formulas, so for you to come across as the "mentor" and educate others based on what you "minimally saw from thread" can't be considered reliable.


Its rather pathetic to run away from the fact that your spreadsheet proved what my stance is all about and you resorted to "Assume" that my argument steams from a video.

{Warp} or {Perfect Dodge} {Watch and/or use spreadsheet} regardless of where you come from, these WS's formulas need a change.

Idk who is running away, me or you. After all I'm not the one who kept playing "you just want attention" card or "you are using perfect dodge" card in a dps discussion.

You pop on the forum claiming ws formula needs a change, based on absolutely nothing except "because WAR and SAM suck". When I pointed out WAR and SAM don't suck you started personal attack claiming I'm seeking attention.

Then I run a quick spreadsheet for you to explain why lower ws avg doesn't necessary mean a job will ended up having lower dps then all you did is linked a random video which proves....nothing?

Again, you are the one popped on the forum and kept insisted 2h ws formula needs a boost, based on absolutely no reason asides from "because I said so" or "because I think it's not logical". Lol.

Just because I don't agree with your opinion about ws avg, doesn't mean Im "running away" from the fact, after 2 pages of explanation of how dd balance works.

I'm hoping they address H2H and ranged damage calculations for this patch. Ranged weapons received a relatively minimal adjustment during the pDif changes, and I'd love to see ranged setups return.

Even a change as small as having the fTP on Victory Smite transfer to all hits might just be enough to save MNK and PUP. The same change applied to CDC provided an enormous boost.

Scythe WSs need to eliminate so many MND and INT WSCs and instead focus on raw STR. Simple fTP raises might be enough, too.

Its rather pathetic to claim that I used the attention card over and over again when in fact it was only used once, same goes for dodging the reality of the situation from your stance.

Stop your drama please and admit you were wrong about WS formulas comparison between Sword GA GK H2H and everyone will be happy.

You based your arguments on DPS I based mine "weapon types" as the announcement suggested... please (focus).

It's just my personal opinion, I think it's really vex attunement wilt etc that made ranged attack less relevant.

I think ranged attack should* be behind melee, after all its safer. Back in 2014 when defensive buff weren't popular RNG was still meta. With all that defensive buffs it became less relevant though.

@Katriina

Wrong about what?? I haven't post any sword dps comparison with GK and GA yet, I only did GS. Why are you claiming I'm having "wrong" opinion about it????


It seems like you're just trying to win the argument.

Also people post opinion that questions the reason behind your opinion(which is pretty much just A, B, C needs a boost because it makes more sense to you) isn't the same as starting drama.

I use the "attention" card over and over because of the way you argue and defend for your opinion. You attempt to shift focus to individual instead of focusing on your point, over and over.

No I'm not trying to win anything you compared the wrong weapon type to sword and even with that the average weapon skill was lower, and I asked you to compare the right ones.

You constantly argue your ideas based on DPS output when in reality the discussion was about WS and Im not asking for anything other than a review to the Outdated design of said WS.

Id say it's probably still better to review each underpowered individual ws rather then just claim entire category of ws suck, proceed to boost entire category and run the risk of certain 2h job start to dominate the parse, such as WAR with ukon ***out 30k ws AND do 5k crits, and ws faster than 1h etc.

Now that I completely agree with 100% but even once its done I'm more than sure that the end result will fall under the same assumption that formulas need to be checked especially with creepy modifiers like VIT MND INT and the like that resulted in a horrible "weapon type" performance over the time of this game.

As mentioned by someone earlier, the only things in real need of looking at are H2H and Ranged, because both have suffered badly in recent years.

Plain fact is that MNK has to be competitive damage-wise with the strongest DD, as otherwise its function as a job is moot.

It's funny, you can literally open up the scythe WS wiki page, read it's modifiers and TP scalings and go "Whelp, this weapon is complete and utter ***".

It's actually bounced back and forth throughout the years. 1H melee dominated the 75 era before SE modified 2H damage and accuracy formulas. Even earlier before that, RNG dominated with no distance penalty.