On Healing Hands - A Comprehensive WHM Guide (V2)

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On Healing Hands - A Comprehensive WHM Guide (V2)
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 Asura.Chiaia
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By Asura.Chiaia 2019-05-10 23:29:32
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I started testing the Protect line of spells for the increases to update the wiki. Once I got to Protectra V I noticed what they stated in the update notes is not true. (That it was going to be the same value as 5/5 merits with old Emp augment.

Old 5/5 with Emp on was worth 220 Defense now it's worth 205. So is Protect V now.

I haven't gotten around to Shell testing yet will do later or tomorrow. Will make an official forum post that will most likely be ignored once I have though.

P.S. If someone already posted this sorry but I tried reading back the last few pages and it's a hot *** mess of mostly useless ***.
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 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2019-05-11 07:21:40
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Yeah Chiaia I already posted that but it's good for more people to notice and discuss, last few pages of discussion got lost into Nyaarun crap lol.

In my opinion they forgot / did a mistake when they tried to add the value from the Relic (with 5/5 merits it would be exactely 25) into the spell itself.
I'm sure they did the same mistake with Shell.
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 Cerberus.Senkyuutai
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By Cerberus.Senkyuutai 2019-05-11 09:36:55
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Asura.Pergatory said: »
Bismarck.Nyaarun said: »
Tank dies, you can arise and their DT set has enough HP that their HP pool is still likely the highest in the party.
And yet, they have to start over building enmity from scratch, and rebuff themselves so they don't get stomped as soon as they pull hate back. How long does that take?
Between 1 and 20sec for the hate, the buff part can be ignored entirely (the most important buffs in such situation are from the tank himself and are either JAs or very quick casts).

There is only one thing that can delay either, whether or not your DDs are garbage. And that's from a PLD perspective, I keep reading that RUN is even better at both of those things, it must be even more irrelevant in practice if you have one.

Outside of an actually good DD with proper sets or a co-tank, there is nothing that a tank can't get hate off within 5 seconds.
 Bismarck.Nyaarun
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By Bismarck.Nyaarun 2019-05-11 10:18:50
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Cerberus.Senkyuutai said: »
Asura.Pergatory said: »
Bismarck.Nyaarun said: »
Tank dies, you can arise and their DT set has enough HP that their HP pool is still likely the highest in the party.
And yet, they have to start over building enmity from scratch, and rebuff themselves so they don't get stomped as soon as they pull hate back. How long does that take?
Between 1 and 20sec for the hate, the buff part can be ignored entirely (the most important buffs in such situation are from the tank himself and are either JAs or very quick casts).

There is only one thing that can delay either, whether or not your DDs are garbage. And that's from a PLD perspective, I keep reading that RUN is even better at both of those things, it must be even more irrelevant in practice if you have one.

Outside of an actually good DD with proper sets or a co-tank, there is nothing that a tank can't get hate off within 5 seconds.

A lot of DDs have the ability to deal with enmity as well. Drg can just remove it nearly entirely, thf can throw enmity around onto them, remove it, and boost enmity of a target, ranger and cor have enmity suppression ws, ranger transfer ja, pup can swap enmity between master and auto, sch can suppress and enhance enmity gen on others, as well as view enmity status, blm can suppress enmity and remove it via MB or ja.

Edit: nin also gets enmity suppression.

Most DDs without enmity capabilities have something to pseudo tank temporarily; war gets defender (and retaliation ups dps), monk gets counter/perf counter (and lolcounterstance), sam gets seigan/third eye, etc.
 Asura.Roughwind
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By Asura.Roughwind 2019-05-11 11:44:32
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Bismarck.Nyaarun said: »
Most DDs without enmity capabilities have something to pseudo tank temporarily; war gets defender (and retaliation ups dps), monk gets counter/perf counter (and lolcounterstance), sam gets seigan/third eye, etc.

Holy*** all these ppl reasoning with this level of retardation what a shame, Even for a non-posting mostly reader i couldn't hold myself from publicly calling out such a retard/arrogant/weakling/crybaby, Without even having to prove why or explain to him why. I duno what u guys do to think proving points justifying why replying to someone like this.
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 Bismarck.Nyaarun
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By Bismarck.Nyaarun 2019-05-11 12:15:56
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Asura.Roughwind said: »
Bismarck.Nyaarun said: »
Most DDs without enmity capabilities have something to pseudo tank temporarily; war gets defender (and retaliation ups dps), monk gets counter/perf counter (and lolcounterstance), sam gets seigan/third eye, etc.

Holy*** all these ppl reasoning with this level of retardation what a shame, Even for a non-posting mostly reader i couldn't hold myself from publicly calling out such a retard/arrogant/weakling/crybaby, Without even having to prove why or explain to him why. I duno what u guys do to think proving points justifying why replying to someone like this.

So.... Youre an idiot then? K. Most DDs have an enmity suppression so tanks can get enmity back quickly, most of the rest have something that lets them handle more punishment for short periods of time. I have no idea what you find so hard or complex to understand, this is entirely factual.

Oh, asura, makes sense why.
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By Lili 2019-05-11 12:23:52
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Reminder that Nyaarun is a troll and is waiting for nothing else than for people to engage him, so he then can feel all righteous by telling us we're dumb and he's the only smart one. He's now even opening new threads hoping that people will engage him.
Ignore and move on!

TL;DR: Nyaarun is a troll and tries on purpose to trigger us so he can keep baiting. Do not feed the troll, just ignore his statements.

Asura.Chiaia said: »
I started testing the Protect line of spells for the increases to update the wiki. Once I got to Protectra V I noticed what they stated in the update notes is not true. (That it was going to be the same value as 5/5 merits with old Emp augment.

Old 5/5 with Emp on was worth 220 Defense now it's worth 205. So is Protect V now.

I haven't gotten around to Shell testing yet will do later or tomorrow. Will make an official forum post that will most likely be ignored once I have though.

Yeah, a bunch of us had noticed already. There's already posts in the official forums about it, I think? Hopefully they'll at least read it even if they won't reply. Doesn't hurt to post more, according to their update notes it's certainly a bug.

Asura.Chiaia said: »
P.S. If someone already posted this sorry but I tried reading back the last few pages and it's a hot *** mess of mostly useless ***.

This is why we must be united in ignoring trolls.
 Bismarck.Nyaarun
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By Bismarck.Nyaarun 2019-05-11 12:30:36
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Lili said: »
Reminder that Nyaarun is a troll and is waiting for nothing else than for people to engage him, so he then can feel all righteous by telling us we're dumb and he's the only smart one. He's now even opening new threads hoping that people will engage him.
Ignore and move on!

TL;DR: Nyaarun is a troll and tries on purpose to trigger us so he can keep baiting. Do not feed the troll, just ignore his statements.

Asura.Chiaia said: »
I started testing the Protect line of spells for the increases to update the wiki. Once I got to Protectra V I noticed what they stated in the update notes is not true. (That it was going to be the same value as 5/5 merits with old Emp augment.

Old 5/5 with Emp on was worth 220 Defense now it's worth 205. So is Protect V now.

I haven't gotten around to Shell testing yet will do later or tomorrow. Will make an official forum post that will most likely be ignored once I have though.

Yeah, a bunch of us had noticed already. There's already posts in the official forums about it, I think? Hopefully they'll at least read it even if they won't reply. Doesn't hurt to post more, according to their update notes it's certainly a bug.

Asura.Chiaia said: »
P.S. If someone already posted this sorry but I tried reading back the last few pages and it's a hot *** mess of mostly useless ***.

This is why we must be united in ignoring trolls.

I dont need to tell you youre an idiot if you repeatedly prove to be one. Also, i posted a fun thread encouraging people to try something fun and not serious. Makes me a troll, amirite? Heaven forbid people play a game for fun every now and then.
 Siren.Attaxia
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By Siren.Attaxia 2019-05-11 13:36:54
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Not sure if this was confirmed already but; it appears the new Cureskin bonus is an increase to the cured amount threshold to which the 25% solace value is applied. Post update value is 1300 (previously 1200) with capped merits - presumably it adds 20 points per merit upgrade.

New proposed cureskin formula is:
For cures over 1300: (cure amount x (solace gear/100)) + 325
For cures under 1300: cure amount x (solace gear/100)

Method and math:
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By Lili 2019-05-11 14:49:45
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It took me a while to parse the way you phrased it... I think talking about the threshold can be confusing. From your numbers, it simply increases the cap of native Solace by 5 points per merit level.

Amount of cureskin = (cure amount * 0.25) + (cure amount * solace gear/100)

The first term caps at 300 + (5 * merits in Solace). So 300 with 0/5 merits, 325 with 5/5.
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 Cerberus.Shadowmeld
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By Cerberus.Shadowmeld 2019-05-11 17:32:31
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I'm bummed the added Silence and Petrified to Sacrifice.... One of the amazing things about it is you couldn't incapacitate yourself completely.
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2019-05-11 18:16:55
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Cerberus.Shadowmeld said: »
I'm bummed the added Silence and Petrified to Sacrifice.... One of the amazing things about it is you couldn't incapacitate yourself completely.
But you can give yourself immunity with Misery now.

So, silence/petra immunity through Sacrifice.
 Cerberus.Shadowmeld
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By Cerberus.Shadowmeld 2019-05-11 18:43:52
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IMO the draw of sacrifice is the massive number of debuffs you could remove with it in Solace though. No point in using it if it only removes 1, because Erase does that too, is affected by Divine Veil, and with JSE neck removes more debuffs.

So for me the only time I ever used it was for ST20, and for when someone had more than 3 debuffs. Now that can be dangerous if you use it and one of the debuffs is petrify.

In Misery, Erase will be much better, except for ST20
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2019-05-11 19:01:49
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Think of it as a Divine Caress for your WHM, but in situations where it's best to have Misery up, you can become immune to certain enfeebles that's hurting your party.
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 Leviathan.Joltz
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By Leviathan.Joltz 2019-05-14 20:31:20
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i'm not sure if this was talked about in the previous pages (lots of other things being discussed) but has anyone done any testing with the relic feet augment for aff. solace?
 Shiva.Xelltrix
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By Shiva.Xelltrix 2019-05-14 22:22:50
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It's for Holy damage so I don't think anyone cares enough to test it tbh.
 Siren.Attaxia
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By Siren.Attaxia 2019-05-15 05:17:41
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It's likely an error
 Shiva.Xelltrix
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By Shiva.Xelltrix 2019-05-15 08:10:47
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Holy damage? Why would it be, they made a point to say it affected Holy and Banish for Solace and Misery respectively.

Unless you mean the typo is that the Update Note says Animus Solace/Misery instead of Afflatus Solace/Misery like the armor pieces say.
 Siren.Attaxia
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By Siren.Attaxia 2019-05-15 08:37:24
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The error is that the Piety feet and legs augment text now says Afflatus Solace/Misery instead of Pro/Shell, most likely because the text on the item is retrieved from the merit categories that were changed.
 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2019-05-15 09:02:44
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Siren.Attaxia said: »
The error is that the Piety feet and legs augment text now says Afflatus Solace/Misery instead of Pro/Shell, most likely because the text on the item is retrieved from the merit categories that were changed.

It's not an error, the update notes said that is what they would do. The legs and feet are not supposed to effect protect and shell, it was very clearly stated.

Instead, protect and shell are supposed to be the maximum value attainable with 5/5 merits and the legs/feet augment by default. This is the alleged error, as they currently aren't.
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By eliroo 2019-05-15 09:38:39
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Not sure what they were referencing but technically the Pants and the Feet do have a text error because they say "Enhances the Effect of Afflatus X" instead of "Enhances the Effect of Animus X" thus leading to some confusion.
 Siren.Attaxia
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By Siren.Attaxia 2019-05-15 09:38:52
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My mistake, seems I didn't that part properly.
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2019-05-16 22:25:24
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Akihiko_Matsui;615794 said:
We’d like to continue discussions with everyone, but first, we wanted to explain the reasoning behind why the development team decided to make adjustments to the white magic spells Esuna and Sacrifice.

The onset of this was the fact that compared to Afflatus Solace, the chances to use Afflatus Misery were extremely few and far between. From there, we wanted to separate Esuna and Sacrifice from the overall concept of Afflatus Misery, which is to have the white mage on the front lines trying to take damage first.

We are aware that there were times where the previous method was useful and some previous strategies will become obsolete. However, when looking it as a whole, we have determined that the new adjustments will increase situations where it will become more effective.

If the community believes that this decision was a mistake, then we’ll consider reverting the changes made to Esuna and Sacrifice. We’d appreciate if you could please continue to leave your comments and let us know which method (old or new) was more effective.
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 Asura.Meliorah
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By Asura.Meliorah 2019-05-16 22:46:20
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Make it work with divine veil and all will be forgiven. It's *** useless to me if I can't make it aoe :/.
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By Ruaumoko 2019-05-17 03:46:03
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I honestly wouldn't undo the change. I would let Sacrifice transfer all debuffs to the White Mage under Solace like it used to though, leave Esuna as it is.
 Cerberus.Dekar
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By Cerberus.Dekar 2019-05-17 09:36:11
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Ruaumoko said: »
I honestly wouldn't undo the change. I would let Sacrifice transfer all debuffs to the White Mage under Solace like it used to though, leave Esuna as it is.

I'd be okay with having a new spell that worked the same way as old Esuna. The concept of taking damage for Misery makes it work well with its original mechanic. Likewise, I'd prefer if they also removed the ability to transfer sleep and petrify.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2019-05-17 09:46:00
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Cerberus.Shadowmeld said: »
IMO the draw of sacrifice is the massive number of debuffs you could remove with it in Solace though. No point in using it if it only removes 1, because Erase does that too, is affected by Divine Veil, and with JSE neck removes more debuffs.

So for me the only time I ever used it was for ST20, and for when someone had more than 3 debuffs. Now that can be dangerous if you use it and one of the debuffs is petrify.

In Misery, Erase will be much better, except for ST20

Has anyone submitted a bug report to SE or otherwise asked if this is how it's supposed to work?
 Bahamut.Shozokui
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By Bahamut.Shozokui 2019-05-17 21:47:17
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Changes are trash. That is all. *** SE is proving again that it's completely out of touch for what needs to change in this game.

*** it, let's buff DRK for the 1000th time.
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