Sigurd's Descendants: The Art Of Dragon Slaying.

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Sigurd's Descendants: The Art of Dragon Slaying.
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By Ozaii 2019-02-11 02:48:13
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Hey guys. I wanna ask questions about damage reports. Mainlyis it a bad mindset to compare drg to drk and war? Also damage wise it seems i can keep up with near perfectly geared samurai, keep in mind i am lacking augs for trish and regal ring. Is this just a me thing or is drg just not able to win the damage race. I usually pop stardivers off as soon as i hit 1k. Maybe thats part of the problem. Any advice?
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 Phoenix.Dabackpack
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By Phoenix.Dabackpack 2019-02-11 03:27:51
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Ozaii said: »
Hey guys. I wanna ask questions about damage reports. Mainlyis it a bad mindset to compare drg to drk and war? Also damage wise it seems i can keep up with near perfectly geared samurai, keep in mind i am lacking augs for trish and regal ring. Is this just a me thing or is drg just not able to win the damage race. I usually pop stardivers off as soon as i hit 1k. Maybe thats part of the problem. Any advice?

DRG generally struggles against WAR and DRK in full buff scenarios because lack of attack boosting abilities. I think the recent patch helped a little bit because TP overflow for Stardiver.

However DRG has more utility than WAR, can manage its own hate, and does exceptionally well in low-buff scenarios.

Trishula DRG is perfectly fine for endgame DD content though. Comparing yourself to DRK or WAR will just make you sad, unless it's a huge margin, in which case you should reevaluate your gear choices. I think most (good) players recognize the value of DRG nowadays.
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By Bahamut.Shozokui 2019-02-11 08:44:10
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Phoenix.Dabackpack said: »
Ozaii said: »
Hey guys. I wanna ask questions about damage reports. Mainlyis it a bad mindset to compare drg to drk and war? Also damage wise it seems i can keep up with near perfectly geared samurai, keep in mind i am lacking augs for trish and regal ring. Is this just a me thing or is drg just not able to win the damage race. I usually pop stardivers off as soon as i hit 1k. Maybe thats part of the problem. Any advice?

DRG generally struggles against WAR and DRK in full buff scenarios because lack of attack boosting abilities. I think the recent patch helped a little bit because TP overflow for Stardiver.

However DRG has more utility than WAR, can manage its own hate, and does exceptionally well in low-buff scenarios.

Trishula DRG is perfectly fine for endgame DD content though. Comparing yourself to DRK or WAR will just make you sad, unless it's a huge margin, in which case you should reevaluate your gear choices. I think most (good) players recognize the value of DRG nowadays.

I've been undefeated in Dynamis-D for months running with full REMA DRK, WAR, BLU, etc. You are really at zero risk of dying the entire run. You generate more than 3x the total weaponskills of your DD brethren. You'll never hit hate cap on the final boss like the other DD.

Everything else it's only acceptable, not exceptional.
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By Bahamut.Shozokui 2019-02-11 08:48:52
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Asura.Veikur said: »
Also guns. TP Bonus gun now, please. Gimme those 2750 TP Stardivers @1000 TP.

If this were possible, the Kaja lance would destroy all our REMAs. WS @ 1750 (or 1k with warcry up) for 5.5 fTP 100% STR mod. Please let me have it :(

I was hitting 56k Impulse Drive averages with 60 WSD in gear and capped pDiff.

If you didn't need 102 STP, an XI Sam roll (with sam bonus) to get a fake 2 hit, it might even be competitive as-is with only TP-Bonus earring on 1min uptime on Warcry.
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By Valefor.Ophannus 2019-02-11 10:34:57
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Does DRG still suffer that much due to not having attack buffs? We have a permanent +20% attack, plus the job point +attack from wyvern attributes (+60?). WAR gets more with their buffed berserk (+35%), but its not fulltime like ours is, though they get a 4% higher Smite.
 Bahamut.Shozokui
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By Bahamut.Shozokui 2019-02-11 11:02:52
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Valefor.Ophannus said: »
Does DRG still suffer that much due to not having attack buffs? We have a permanent +20% attack, plus the job point +attack from wyvern attributes (+60?). WAR gets more with their buffed berserk (+35%), but its not fulltime like ours is, though they get a 4% higher Smite.

It's not that bad, but it's very noticeable in everything except the highest buff situations or low level content.
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By SimonSes 2019-02-11 12:37:50
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Valefor.Ophannus said: »
Does DRG still suffer that much due to not having attack buffs? We have a permanent +20% attack, plus the job point +attack from wyvern attributes (+60?). WAR gets more with their buffed berserk (+35%), but its not fulltime like ours is, though they get a 4% higher Smite.

War with all berserk duration items (not counting weapon slot) and berserk recast merits, has 4min3sec duration on Berserk and 4min10sec recast. This is rather close to full time.
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 Asura.Veikur
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By Asura.Veikur 2019-02-11 13:07:39
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That said, that attack buff is mostly only relevant in Dynamis-D, if you're not stacking defense down effects like you should be.

Multiple targets/long fights are great for DRG. Bursty zerg ***favors other jobs by a significant margin due to their ability kits. Reverting Fly High to no recast (outside of animation lock) jumps would fix this.
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By Ozaii 2019-02-13 09:56:51
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Ah ok cool. So I should be fine then. Thanks dudes. Confidence boost +1 to drg.
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By SimonSes 2019-02-13 11:36:28
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Bahamut.Shozokui said: »
I've been undefeated in Dynamis-D for months running with full REMA DRK, WAR, BLU, etc.

People post same stuff on DRK, WAR, SAM and BLU forum.
You should start doing dynamis together lol

Bahamut.Shozokui said: »
You generate more than 3x the total weaponskills of your DD brethren.

You want to tell me that you make 3x more WSs than BLU, WAR, DRK and especially SAM? If that's true for you runs, it's not a surprise you beat everyone. Your team mates are VERY VERY bad at engaging mobs or like me, they have terrible lags during Dynamis-D. There is no way DRG can do that much more WSs if everyone have no lag and people have same skill. Sure you have jumps, but WAR has 100%DA, SAM has Zanhasso and massive STP, BLU has very big STP and AM3.
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By Asura.Veikur 2019-02-13 22:11:08
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Just gonna throw out there; DRG can 100%DA with Fighter's roll.
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By Afania 2019-02-13 22:19:29
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Asura.Veikur said: »
Just gonna throw out there; DRG can 100%DA with Fighter's roll.

Well yeah but no DD in game can do 3x more ws than other DD unless they are competing with mages with 0 MA.

Certain job tp faster, thats for sure. But its more like difference between 1.9 rounds/ws v.s 2.1 or something.

Edit: reading the origional post, he meant reduce hate with jumps=more ws in the long run since other DD either need to turtle or die. That makes sense though.
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By Asura.Veikur 2019-02-15 13:07:30
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MA set is better than WSDMG until ~1300 TP before Moonshade. For Kaja Impulse Drive.
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By Bahamut.Shozokui 2019-02-15 13:33:11
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Afania said: »
Asura.Veikur said: »
Just gonna throw out there; DRG can 100%DA with Fighter's roll.

Well yeah but no DD in game can do 3x more ws than other DD unless they are competing with mages with 0 MA.

Certain job tp faster, thats for sure. But its more like difference between 1.9 rounds/ws v.s 2.1 or something.

Edit: reading the origional post, he meant reduce hate with jumps=more ws in the long run since other DD either need to turtle or die. That makes sense though.

Your edit is correct.

3x WS in the total run is very possible. Jumps are a free weaponskill, you have 4 of them (one of which reduces your enmity by 29%..... If you're not getting at least 1k off jumps, your gear is wrong or your SAM roll is off. If you're NOT doing that many WS more than other DD you're doing it wrong.

I'll post breakdowns upcoming, but I guarantee that you're doing it wrong if you're not seeing a large amount of weaponskills over other DD.

Also, anyone coming at my DD is a bad choice. Ricon, Xenophane, myself, Justthetip, and Llucian are all top 1%'ers. Any two of these players can carry a full zone clear without COR cheese. We're on Bahamut and run every Tuesday and Sautrday at 8pm CST if anyone thinks they can prove otherwise.

Asura.Veikur said: »


MA set is better than WSDMG until ~1300 TP before Moonshade. For Kaja Impulse Drive.

I had a chance to test Kaja Lance in Dyna on Tuesday. It actually performs remarkably well on Wave 3 because your jumps CD fast enough to 3k your WSs (with moonshade) every pull. That raises weaponskill average for wave 3 to about 35k (my max being about 50k) instead of 20k and increases your DPS for the wave quite a bit. It's still best to use R15 Trishula on Wave 1 and 2 and for the mega boss.
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By Ozaii 2019-02-19 12:54:35
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So to confirm what you are saying is basically for the wave 3 mobs the new lance outperforms trish then? If so thats pretty neat.
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By Bahamut.Shozokui 2019-02-19 17:27:23
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Ozaii said: »
So to confirm what you are saying is basically for the wave 3 mobs the new lance outperforms trish then? If so thats pretty neat.

Yeah man, it's just the right combination of downtime between pulls so that at least two jumps will be up during. Those two jumps will help you hit 2750 pretty easily.

A 3k Impulse Drive does like 45~50k depending on your gear in there. After those two jumps are burned, I just WS at 1750 and it still comes out to about 35k every time. In normal circumstances, waiting to WS is a DPS loss, but the nature of wave 3 (except the boss) makes it ok.
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By Ozaii 2019-02-19 17:49:58
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Oh thats bad ***. Imma have to double check my wsdamage sets. They might be able to get some love.
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By Bismarck.Lothoro 2019-02-19 20:03:25
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Bahamut.Shozokui said: »

I'll post breakdowns upcoming, but I guarantee that you're doing it wrong if you're not seeing a large amount of weaponskills over other DD.

Also, anyone coming at my DD is a bad choice. Ricon, Xenophane, myself, Justthetip, and Llucian are all top 1%'ers. Any two of these players can carry a full zone clear without COR cheese. We're on Bahamut and run every Tuesday and Sautrday at 8pm CST if anyone thinks they can prove otherwise.

Weird flex but ok.
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By Ozaii 2019-02-25 09:03:13
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Another ambuscade weapon upgrade incoming next month. What does this mean for the current weapon hierarchy for drg? The world may know next month.
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By Odin.Senaki 2019-02-25 09:27:18
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I really hope SE doesn't ruin REMA like they did during SoA. They might make it so that unless you have augmented rank 15 REMA weapons, they won't even compare to the Ambuscade ones. Which would be disappointing for my Aeonic polearm to say the least.
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By Leviathan.Sidra 2019-02-25 10:37:16
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I do not think that is at risk of happening.

Impulse Drive at 3k TP has slowly been gaining ground on Stardiver over the last few years every time another chunk of WSD gets released. As of the Relic Hands release, I have been using Impulse Drive when I get stuck at 3k TP, like on Kin. I am not sure if it mathed out as better, but it may have, and it is far more consistent and doesn't rely on multiattack rng. It does 35-39k every time.

With this new weapon giving it a true 40% Bonus, a 3k (2750) Impulse Drive with it will be Dragoon's strongest 1 hit potential. But do not confuse that with it being our best weapon. While I am not sure I agree with Shozokui's assessment, it's also a niche start/stop 3k start situation which would favor the weapon more. For any continuous damage situation, assuming 1 more normalish upgrade, the weapon will not outperform the existing REMA AG Options. On the T3 boss, for instance, the REMA options would all smoke it. Impulse Drive has a Modifier of 1 at 1k - A Moonshade and 40% bonus don't save that. Aside from higher TP, you are just going to be Stardivering with an inferior weapon.
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By Ozaii 2019-02-25 11:47:32
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Ah to bad then that impulse drive isnt on a rema instead then huh.
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By Bahamut.Shozokui 2019-02-25 11:57:11
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Leviathan.Sidra said: »
I do not think that is at risk of happening.

Impulse Drive at 3k TP has slowly been gaining ground on Stardiver over the last few years every time another chunk of WSD gets released. As of the Relic Hands release, I have been using Impulse Drive when I get stuck at 3k TP, like on Kin. I am not sure if it mathed out as better, but it may have, and it is far more consistent and doesn't rely on multiattack rng. It does 35-39k every time.

With this new weapon giving it a true 40% Bonus, a 3k (2750) Impulse Drive with it will be Dragoon's strongest 1 hit potential. But do not confuse that with it being our best weapon. While I am not sure I agree with Shozokui's assessment, it's also a niche start/stop 3k start situation which would favor the weapon more. For any continuous damage situation, assuming 1 more normalish upgrade, the weapon will not outperform the existing REMA AG Options. On the T3 boss, for instance, the REMA options would all smoke it. Impulse Drive has a Modifier of 1 at 1k - A Moonshade and 40% bonus don't save that. Aside from higher TP, you are just going to be Stardivering with an inferior weapon.

To me, it sounds like you're agreeing with my opinion more than refuting it :P. If you don't have an R15 Trish, this weapon will still perform rather close to it, subtract about 500~1000 DPS on the wave 3 boss, your overall average won't be too different though. In any situation where you can cap your TP easily, it'll still perform higher than Trish.

I've not been able to DD in dynamis for a few runs, so I don't have hard number comparisons to back anything up.
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By Leviathan.Sidra 2019-02-25 14:25:43
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If I had the weapon, I would not use it in Dynamis D. So while I agree the gap may be closed in that type of situation, I don't think it would beat REMA options.

The weapon has 1 thing going for it: Stronger weaponskills at higher TP due to ID's superior scaling. And it doesn't need 2750 TP, it's stronger than Stardiver at some level even below that with it's 40% bonus. So like right after a 3K TP start, or a Double attack'd Soul Jump. But in every combat round after that it is going to lose ground. The 480 delay means you need more STP to hit a 5hit. So you are going to have less multiattack than a Gung or Rhon (meaning less quantity of ws) would, and way less than the 4hit counterparts. And every 1k WS eats into that lead of the initial weaponskill. It ain't gonna take 3 minutes of weaponskilling to pass it up.

If you have to build TP, a 3k ID with it is not stronger than 3x Stardiver than any of the other weapons. And it's white damage will also be lower than any of them besides maybe Trish. I would roll with even just a normal AG Gungnir over it in the vast majority of situations. On a 3k TP start fight where we aren't skillchaining, I might use it for the first WS, Soul Jump to another ID, and then swap immediately to Trish.
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By Sylph.Darkside 2019-02-25 14:46:02
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This may have been discussed prior but the search function doesnt seem to be working for me on the forum.
Stardiver set. For those who have a Dagon Breastplate, would it be more beneficial to slip a Windbuffet Belt +1 in place of Fotia. It would give a bump to the Niqmaddu ring and 5% QA, bump the TA up to 17%.

Thoughts? Thanks.

ItemSet 365309
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By Leviathan.Sidra 2019-02-25 14:58:34
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That would devalue the Niqmaddu. Adding more QA also devalues the TA on the Dagon. Fotia is superior.

Back of napkin (this is close math not perfect math, as it doesn't take into account other MA rates - which is best case scenario for Windbuffet): Fotia is about an 11% gain.

2*[.02 (.75)+.02(.5]] = 5% for the Windbuffet
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By Asura.Veikur 2019-02-25 15:27:26
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You'll spike higher slightly more often, but your lows and mids will suffer a fair bit.

Not worth.
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By Caitsith.Mahayaya 2019-02-25 15:39:02
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Everyone needs an epeen set though.

1.) Get max buffs with multiple one hours from buffers.
2.) WS in high variable gear until you get your highest number.
3.) Screenshot it and chop off your buffs and party members, displaying primarily the log and maybe your char doing the WS.
4.) Claim that's your average WS on that NM, and say you're not even sure you got proper buffs. And that you think there were several WSes that were much higher than that, and that if others don't get those numbers you don't know what they could be doing wrong - because such and such is easy.
5.) Profit
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By Asura.Eiryl 2019-02-25 15:52:13
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Caitsith.Mahayaya said: »
Everyone needs an epeen set though.

1.) Get max buffs with multiple one hours from buffers.
2.) WS in high variable gear until you get your highest number.
3.) Screenshot it and chop off your buffs and party members, displaying primarily the log and maybe your char doing the WS.
4.) Claim that's your average WS on that NM, and say you're not even sure you got proper buffs. And that you think there were several WSes that were much higher than that, and that if others don't get those numbers you don't know what they could be doing wrong - because such and such is easy.
5.) Profit

Holy ***did you nail the *** outta that, that is a spot on representation.

You forgot one thing though: "I outparsed my friend on (this) job, and he's superfuckingamazing"
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 Bahamut.Shozokui
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By Bahamut.Shozokui 2019-02-25 17:13:38
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Asura.Eiryl said: »
Caitsith.Mahayaya said: »
Everyone needs an epeen set though.

1.) Get max buffs with multiple one hours from buffers.
2.) WS in high variable gear until you get your highest number.
3.) Screenshot it and chop off your buffs and party members, displaying primarily the log and maybe your char doing the WS.
4.) Claim that's your average WS on that NM, and say you're not even sure you got proper buffs. And that you think there were several WSes that were much higher than that, and that if others don't get those numbers you don't know what they could be doing wrong - because such and such is easy.
5.) Profit

Holy ***did you nail the *** outta that, that is a spot on representation.

You forgot one thing though: "I outparsed my friend on (this) job, and he's superfuckingamazing"

I think there's a thread for asssura ***posting. Kindly go back.
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