Are You A Lukewarm Christian?

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Are You A Lukewarm Christian?
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By Jetackuu 2014-01-30 21:29:03
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It's like the playground bully crying victim when somebody stops him from giving a kid a wedgie.

I don't recall "throwing feces" in response to Endoq...
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-01-30 21:29:51
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Valefor.Endoq said: »
Jesus never said to kill the sinners and nonbelievers, he said the opposite of that.
He said to hate sin and to love the sinner and to show nonbelievers by living as Jesus did and in this way the Holy Spirit can touch them when they see his life in your works/fruits.

To believe in Biblical Jesus means to also believe the Bible is credible (sin, the entire OT, magic Jews, supernatural powers of healing/resurrection) etc), inerrant, divinely inspired and properly translated to the present day. Things that scholars have disputed for centuries. From the very inception of Christianity as an offspring of Judaism. Every sect of Christianity proclaims itself to be doing it right and there are well over 400, not including your personal sects. A simple jaunt down to BibleGateway will demonstrate the variations that translation can do to text. Not to mention the translations through languages before being put to English.

Further you'd have to believe the First Council of Nicea (and subsequent councils) were divinely guided in order to properly canonize what would become Christianity as it spread from the ME outward across Europe into the Orthodox/Catholic organizations and onward through the Protestant Reformation and that at no point in this bureaucratic machine did politics trump what would eventually be read by people for centuries.

At the same time Jesus was said to have been preaching in Judea, there were thousands of people on the American continents who wouldn't hear about Christians for another 1500 years when God came in the form of conquistadors, death and enslavement which ripples right up to the present day. Are syncretic religions that mix Hispanic/African totemism/animism/ancestor worship with Christianity doing it right? If so, where is the evidence? If not, why not?

Somehow Christianity only found it's way to the New World when human politics intervened and technology advanced far enough for Europeans to bring it across the seas by accident. You know, since Columbus was actually trying to get to India because Muslims had blocked off the Silk Road.

Even further, outside those passages of redemption, forgiveness and ultimately self-sacrifice often cited by Christians are passages that instruct acts of violence and barbarism and justify genocide against people who do not share your beliefs. You're free to rationalize those any way you see fit but ultimately you're only rationalizing for your own sake because your 'belief' holds the same amount of water as someone who believes Christianity at the point of a sword is a valid method of spreading the faith.

We're also left to assume that what was put to text aren't exaggerations about a man named Jesus who lived in 1st century Judea. Ultimately you must fall back on faith here.

-Faith that everything you've read is accurate.
-Supernatural guidance.
-Belief in things by which you have no physical evidence for.
-Belief that everything posed above was part of a grand plan for the Earth.
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-01-30 21:30:37
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Jetackuu said: »
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
You cannot use logic to ponder the origins of the Universe because the origin of the universe; whatever it may be, by it's very definition will be illogical. It will be something created from nothing, an effect with no cause. It will include eternity which is also illogical, a "time" before time. A "bang" if you will from nowhere, not even a point because a point occupies space. And there was no space. A bang from nowhere and "no-when" that created all space and began time. Mind-blowing craziness the more you ponder it.
That is where you fail, as I found a logical way to observe it. I had a lot of free time when I used to work nights, go figure.

Amandarius, just let it go. This guy obviously has the universe figured out. It'll just take time for the guys with doctorates in science to catch up.

Edit: Now, if only THOSE guys worked nights and had time to think about it, we would have solved everything ever.
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By Jetackuu 2014-01-30 21:32:24
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Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Jetackuu said: »
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
You cannot use logic to ponder the origins of the Universe because the origin of the universe; whatever it may be, by it's very definition will be illogical. It will be something created from nothing, an effect with no cause. It will include eternity which is also illogical, a "time" before time. A "bang" if you will from nowhere, not even a point because a point occupies space. And there was no space. A bang from nowhere and "no-when" that created all space and began time. Mind-blowing craziness the more you ponder it.
That is where you fail, as I found a logical way to observe it. I had a lot of free time when I used to work nights, go figure.

Amandarius, just let it go. This guy obviously has the universe figured out. It'll just take time for the guys with doctorates in science to catch up.

I have an idea, but I haven't thought of a testable hypothesis, but there in lies the catch. There's a few things about my idea that could possibly be tested.

Education is only as good as you put it to use.
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By Phoenix.Amandarius 2014-01-30 21:33:22
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Odin.Jassik said: »

Polls, and stop trying to be the victim, how many millenia have Christians been persecuting everyone else?

Ooh a taunt. Didn't see that coming. Easy fella, the real Christian hating Jassik is starting to emerge.
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By Phoenix.Amandarius 2014-01-30 21:34:34
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Jetackuu said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Jetackuu said: »
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
You cannot use logic to ponder the origins of the Universe because the origin of the universe; whatever it may be, by it's very definition will be illogical. It will be something created from nothing, an effect with no cause. It will include eternity which is also illogical, a "time" before time. A "bang" if you will from nowhere, not even a point because a point occupies space. And there was no space. A bang from nowhere and "no-when" that created all space and began time. Mind-blowing craziness the more you ponder it.
That is where you fail, as I found a logical way to observe it. I had a lot of free time when I used to work nights, go figure.

Amandarius, just let it go. This guy obviously has the universe figured out. It'll just take time for the guys with doctorates in science to catch up.

I have an idea, but I haven't thought of a testable hypothesis, but there in lies the catch. There's a few things about my idea that could possibly be tested.

Education is only as good as you put it to use.


If you aren't gonna share stfu about it? I'd be interested to hear something as it's something I ponder often.
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-01-30 21:35:43
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Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »

Polls, and stop trying to be the victim, how many millenia have Christians been persecuting everyone else?

Ooh a taunt. Didn't see that coming. Easy fella, the real Christian hating Jassik is starting to emerge.

THAT wasn't a taunt, it was a question, and I have no issue with Christians who don't try to dictate how I live my life.
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By Lye 2014-01-30 21:35:49
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Awesome!

A) "Kumbaya: Are you singing it loudly enough?"

B) "Seriously? (skeptical)"

A) "I didn't want this to become what it has. I'll sing (pray) for you!"
 
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By Jetackuu 2014-01-30 21:37:02
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Phoenix.Amandarius said: »


If you aren't gonna share stfu about it? I'd be interested to hear something as it's something I ponder often.

You brought it up, not me. Start with thinking of gravity and an ever expanding vacuum, with finite material.
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2014-01-30 21:37:17
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Can I sign up for a Crusade here, I'd love to kill some people that don't see things my way and shrug it off with shouts of "in the name of God!"
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By Phoenix.Amandarius 2014-01-30 21:38:45
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Jetackuu said: »
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »


If you aren't gonna share stfu about it? I'd be interested to hear something as it's something I ponder often.

You brought it up, not me. Start with thinking of gravity and an ever expanding vacuum, with finite material.

I can but that doesn't take me to an origin.
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By Jetackuu 2014-01-30 21:39:10
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Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
Jetackuu said: »
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »


If you aren't gonna share stfu about it? I'd be interested to hear something as it's something I ponder often.

You brought it up, not me. Start with thinking of gravity and an ever expanding vacuum, with finite material.

I can but that doesn't take me to an origin.
ponder on it for 3 months and get back to me
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By Phoenix.Amandarius 2014-01-30 21:39:53
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ehh OK buddy
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-01-30 21:40:37
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Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
You cannot use logic to ponder the origins of the Universe because the origin of the universe; whatever it may be, by it's very definition will be illogical. It will be something created from nothing, an effect with no cause. It will include eternity which is also illogical, a "time" before time. A "bang" if you will from nowhere, not even a point because a point occupies space. And there was no space. A bang from nowhere and "no-when" that created all space and began time. Mind-blowing craziness the more you ponder it.
Illogical isn't a synonym for something we don't understand.
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By Lye 2014-01-30 21:40:48
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Shiva.Viciousss said: »
Can I sign up for a Crusade here, I'd love to kill some people that don't see things my way and shrug it off with shouts of "in the name of God!"


You should also be "supported" as a "troop" for your heroism!

(Hopefully that strikes a bit closer to home)
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-01-30 21:42:03
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Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
You cannot use logic to ponder the origins of the Universe because the origin of the universe; whatever it may be, by it's very definition will be illogical. It will be something created from nothing, an effect with no cause. It will include eternity which is also illogical, a "time" before time. A "bang" if you will from nowhere, not even a point because a point occupies space. And there was no space. A bang from nowhere and "no-when" that created all space and began time. Mind-blowing craziness the more you ponder it.
Illogical isn't a synonym for something we don't understand.

Perfectly stated. Something outside of our current understanding of time isn't inherently illogical.
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2014-01-30 21:42:07
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Bismarck.Josiahkf said: »
I guess it's true with all the murdering Christianity has done in the last couple millennium but more recently? Can't think of any real illegal prosecutions hmm

Christianity is far more understanding and tolerant today than it's ever been. We've been moving closer and closer to understanding undeniably

Maybe in the US, but the rest of the world? Lol?
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-01-30 21:42:15
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I'm laughing so hard....
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-01-30 21:42:30
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Bismarck.Josiahkf said: »
I guess it's true with all the murdering Christianity has done in the last couple millennium but more recently? Can't think of any real illegal prosecutions hmm

Christianity is far more understanding and tolerant today than it's ever been. We've been moving closer and closer to understanding undeniably.

And it only got to be peaceful when challenged by secular thought and its iron grip loosened with the blood of every individual who challenged the canon of the day. Christianity at one time was no different than today's radical Islam where insulting the prophet means you're gonna get killed and drawing a cartoon means you should be decapitated. So thank lukewarm Christianity for existing or we'd probably be watched by neo-inquistors.

Christianity has been forced to evolve into it's more peaceful forms, that much is evident and we're all influenced by this chain of events weather we want to accept it or not.
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-01-30 21:45:44
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Without secular thought, there would be no America. God Bless that.
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-01-30 21:46:34
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Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
Without secular thought, there would be no America. God Bless that.

Without religious thought, there would be no America. God bless that too.
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By Phoenix.Amandarius 2014-01-30 21:47:01
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Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
You cannot use logic to ponder the origins of the Universe because the origin of the universe; whatever it may be, by it's very definition will be illogical. It will be something created from nothing, an effect with no cause. It will include eternity which is also illogical, a "time" before time. A "bang" if you will from nowhere, not even a point because a point occupies space. And there was no space. A bang from nowhere and "no-when" that created all space and began time. Mind-blowing craziness the more you ponder it.
Illogical isn't a synonym for something we don't understand.

Even if we understood it, it would be an illogical conclusion. Something(everything) from nothing, which is illogical.
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-01-30 21:51:31
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Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
You cannot use logic to ponder the origins of the Universe because the origin of the universe; whatever it may be, by it's very definition will be illogical. It will be something created from nothing, an effect with no cause. It will include eternity which is also illogical, a "time" before time. A "bang" if you will from nowhere, not even a point because a point occupies space. And there was no space. A bang from nowhere and "no-when" that created all space and began time. Mind-blowing craziness the more you ponder it.
Illogical isn't a synonym for something we don't understand.

Even if we understood it, it would be an illogical conclusion. Something(everything) from nothing, which is illogical.

"Something from nothing" is a substitute for a process we don't yet understand. Negative time holds further laws and mechanics of physics that we may never reveal, that doesn't make it illogical.
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By Phoenix.Amandarius 2014-01-30 21:53:48
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No. The beginning will always be something from nothing which is illogical by it's definition. Incoming 3 pages where you try to redefine "logic"?
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-01-30 21:56:42
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Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
Without secular thought, there would be no America. God Bless that.

Without religious thought, there would be no America. God bless that too.

You mean deism? A belief in a God without the trappings of Christianity which most of the founders subscribed to?

Christianity influenced the thoughts of the founders as it does every single one of us but religious thought =/= christianity. Also, Quakers were pretty radical for their day (and still are). The founders would have been killed by the idiotic fundamentalists of our day who trumpet American freedom while wanting to adhere to draconian belief systems.

Thomas Jefferson and Thomas Paine alone dropped enough bombs on organized religion in their day to still be considered radicals. I recall these two being pretty big ***in the formation of America.
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-01-30 21:57:45
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Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
No. The beginning will always be something from nothing which is illogical by it's definition. Incoming 3 pages where you try to redefine "logic"?

The idea of time having a starting point is illogical by any measure. What evidence is there that time ever didn't exist? Nobody here is an astrophysicist, this conversation will serve only to further pollute this thread.
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-01-30 21:58:51
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Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
Without secular thought, there would be no America. God Bless that.
Without religious thought, there would be no America. God bless that too.
You mean deism? A belief in a God without the trappings of Christianity which most of the founders subscribed to? Christianity influenced the thoughts of the founders as it does every single one of us but religious thought =/= christianity. Also, Quakers were pretty radical for their day (and still are).

You seem to be arguing against things I didn't even say. I'm so confused. =(
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By Phoenix.Amandarius 2014-01-30 22:06:59
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Odin.Jassik said: »
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
No. The beginning will always be something from nothing which is illogical by it's definition. Incoming 3 pages where you try to redefine "logic"?

The idea of time having a starting point is illogical by any measure. What evidence is there that time ever didn't exist? Nobody here is an astrophysicist, this conversation will serve only to further pollute this thread.

Well there is either a beginning or there is no beginning. Is it logical to have no beginning? Nope. So a begininning would also be the birth of time. So yeah again we are at a creative force that occupied no space and transcended time to 'splode out everything in the Universe including space and time. Not logical.
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By Phoenix.Amandarius 2014-01-30 22:08:57
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It's fun to think about anyway.
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