Are You A Lukewarm Christian?

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Are You A Lukewarm Christian?
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 Valefor.Endoq
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By Valefor.Endoq 2014-01-30 17:03:14
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Please note that I posted this in the "Politics and Religion" topic, so please no hateful or anti religion remarks or flame-wars.

This post is for my fellow Christians, but I welcome all who are not, but do have a genuine interest in Jesus Christ and his teachings.

I spent many years being a lukewarm Christian after I first accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and savior, and in the last year or so I have devoted myself to him and my life has changed for the better in ways I never imagined possible. and today in my studies I came across some informative websites that touched on some issues that have bothered me for some time now.

Here is the info from those websites.

Are You A Lukewarm Christian?

Bible Verses about lukewarm Christians:

Another thing that seems to be left out these days is the teaching of what repentance is. Is asking for forgiveness without repenting really meaningful? To truly mean it is to repent from that sin, to repent is to turn away from it, not because of the consequences but because of a genuine disdain for sin. To repent and then turn back to the same sin again is like a dog eating its own vomit just to become sick all over again...
 
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 Carbuncle.Anesthesia
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By Carbuncle.Anesthesia 2014-01-30 17:12:07
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7.5/10

See you on page thirty.
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 Bismarck.Leneth
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By Bismarck.Leneth 2014-01-30 17:14:06
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Boo, disappointed that the thread is not about gay Christians too afraid for a coming out in their communities with that title and we will discuss the whys.
 Valefor.Endoq
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By Valefor.Endoq 2014-01-30 17:14:13
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Bismarck.Josiahkf said: »
I know for sure I'm not a lukewarm Christian, but I do know quite a few family members that are and it's very detrimental to the happiness of the whole family sadly.
I know exactly what you mean, I am also dealing with the same issue with my family members.
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By ScaevolaBahamut 2014-01-30 17:14:48
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I was to understand the entire point of Christian Apologetics was there is no way for a human being to NOT be "lukewarm", by this standard, but Jesus died to make all that okay and all that was really needed for a Christian to be good in the eyes of God was to repent and try to do better, y/n?

Christian Apologetics: Checking Your Privilege Since 325 AD
 Valefor.Endoq
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By Valefor.Endoq 2014-01-30 17:24:41
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ScaevolaBahamut said: »
I was to understand the entire point of Christian Apologetics was there is no way for a human being to NOT be "lukewarm", by this standard, but Jesus died to make all that okay and all that was really needed for a Christian to be good in the eyes of God was to repent and try to do better, y/n?

Christian Apologetics: Checking Your Privilege Since 325 AD
Yes all that is required it to repent and accept Jesus Christ as your only savior and Lord. This post was more to help further that relationship with god and to live our full potential as we try our best to walk in his foot steps, yes it is impossible to reach perfection but that is part of the test to, in life we learn how much we need his guidance and how short we fall compared to him, but we must all try our best no matter how many times we inevitably fail and in all this is learn things like humility and compassion and the realization that no one is in any position to pass judgement and look down onto any other person
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By fonewear 2014-01-30 18:11:03
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Interesting topic shocked it hasn't been filled up with anti Christian/religion rants yet. But for now it was worth reading.
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 Valefor.Applebottoms
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By Valefor.Applebottoms 2014-01-30 18:18:08
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It's an interesting topic to read about, and I find it funny how many people wouldn't even be considered "lukewarm" in this day and age.

I myself believe in a higher power, but not necessarily in a particular god/religion. This is a decision I have come to make myself, and as I have respect for other people and their religions, I expect people to respect my beliefs as well. Sadly, this is not the case all the time.

Thanks for sharing this, although I give it until page 2 until it gets derailed horribly. -.-
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By fonewear 2014-01-30 18:25:22
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That is the thing people that believe or don't believe tend to just disregard religion without ever actually learning anything about it. Anyone can come in and say I don't believe that requires next to no effort. I'm not saying being a "non believer" is wrong by any means but at least learn something before you bash it.
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 Valefor.Applebottoms
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By Valefor.Applebottoms 2014-01-30 18:28:33
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It's like saying that "ALL MUSLIMS ARE TERRORISTS." Like a lot of "'murica" does.

Or saying that all Christians are gay-hating, bible preachers that condemn you to hell for not following the baby Jesus.

:|

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 Alexander.Carrelo
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By Alexander.Carrelo 2014-01-30 18:35:08
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A lot of the things in that first spoilered list can be used to both criticize and justify the actions or opinions of any particular Christian.

This one for instance, which I'll apply to the example of LGBT issues:
Quote:
3. Lukewarm people tend to choose what is popular over what is right when they are in conflict. They desire to fit in both at church and outside of church; they care more about what people think of their actions (like church attendance and giving) than what God thinks of their hearts and lives. Luke 6:26, Revelation 3:1, Matthew 23:5-7 4.
A lot of Christians have turned away from the anti-gay elements of their community. They feel that such people are "lukewarm Christians" who, rather than think about why they should (protip: shouldn't) focus on something so inconsequential and harmless, simply choose their antagonistic stance on homosexuality just to fit in with the conservative majority.

On the other hand, more and more of the radical anti-gay Christians who still remain are starting to accuse the pro-gay Christians of the same thing: siding with the LGBT community because it's become "popular" to do so.

So in the end, it can go both ways. Both sides (on any issue, not just this one) claim that they are less "lukewarm" and more "Christian" than the other, but there's still no measure of "Christian-ness." It ends up being kind of moot as a result.
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 Valefor.Endoq
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By Valefor.Endoq 2014-01-30 19:43:00
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I'm happy to see so many positive responses! I hope this will stay on topic. So please I don't want this to become a thread about how people pass judgement onto other people and arrogantly look down on others so they can point at the shortcomings of others while trying to hide their own. The people who truly follow and know and LOVE Christ cannot in good conscious put them self above another person and look down them and judge them unworthy. Only God can do this and it's thanks to his compassion and mercy and grace that we can be forgiven and given new hope in him.
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 Lakshmi.Sparthosx
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-01-30 20:19:43
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Alexander.Carrelo said: »
So in the end, it can go both ways. Both sides (on any issue, not just this one) claim that they are less "lukewarm" and more "Christian" than the other, but there's still no measure of "Christian-ness." It ends up being kind of moot as a result.

Otherwise known as a no true scotsman. There is no right way to do Christianity or any other religion for that matter because the minute you put a group of people in a room and ask them to interpret anything (*insert holy text here*) you're going to get a barrage of different answers. I need not mention the countless wars waged over interpretation on what God *really* meant.

We're all products of our environments and while one person can see fire 'n brimstone as being central to Christianity, another can see planting trees and saving the world as integral to Christ.

The genesis of the problem lay in attempting to extend influence upon others which lends itself to violence. It isn't enough to believe whatever you want to believe, you must force or convince others to do so in order to propagate your beliefs.

At the end of the day, it's best to judge people on their actions. Labels are meaningless. I've met enough Muslims/Jews who ignore dietary restrictions, Christians who haven't read text or Atheists who are complete shitbags to know.
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 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-01-30 20:33:14
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The only things I have to say on the subject are:

1. If you're going to believe and practice a religion, you should actually do it. There is no nobility in half-assing anything in your life.

2. Believe whatever you want to believe, but don't ask the rest of society to slow down for you. I don't want to live in 1st century Arabia. I want my gene therapy, cloned organs, freedom to marry or screw whomever I please, and I don't want to have to fight against zealots to retain them.
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 Valefor.Endoq
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By Valefor.Endoq 2014-01-30 20:35:50
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The topic isn't about which religion is right or wrong or how to practice. I'm talking about the teachings of Jesus Christ and choosing to make him the focal point of everything I do and to stop living half-heartedly and to conduct myself as he would have done, he never persecuted or harmed people or said anything hateful and even when he was entitled to use his wrath he still felt compassion and showed mercy and taught people in a gentle manner with love and truth.

I just wanted to share something with those who are interested the info I found today with everyone since there is this religion section of ffxiah
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-01-30 20:39:37
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Odin.Jassik said: »
The only things I have to say on the subject are: 1. If you're going to believe and practice a religion, you should actually do it. There is no nobility in half-assing anything in your life. 2. Believe whatever you want to believe, but don't ask the rest of society to slow down for you. I don't want to live in 1st century Arabia. I want my gene therapy, cloned organs, freedom to marry or screw whomever I please, and I don't want to have to fight against zealots to retain them.

I mostly agree, but you can't exclude religious people from being a part of the democratic process. They have just as much right to shape the country based upon their beliefs as any atheist does.
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-01-30 20:40:41
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Odin.Jassik said: »
The only things I have to say on the subject are:

1. If you're going to believe and practice a religion, you should actually do it. There is no nobility in half-assing anything in your life.

2. Believe whatever you want to believe, but don't ask the rest of society to slow down for you. I don't want to live in 1st century Arabia. I want my gene therapy, cloned organs, freedom to marry or screw whomever I please, and I don't want to have to fight against zealots to retain them.

These two positions are incompatible unless you "lukewarm" your religion. Anyone who really word-for-words the monotheistic holy text has no choice but to destroy others that oppose their way of life because the text itself commands adherents to commit atrocities and justifies genocide through divine mandate. We already saw this play out for centuries across Europe before reason prevailed and religion became more warm 'n fuzzy in order to accomodate opposing beliefs.

Anyone who peddles fundamentalism has no choice but to either wholesale ignore large amounts of text, lukewarm their religion or to engage in the type of behavior that is wholly incompatible with 21st century western secularism.
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By Jetackuu 2014-01-30 20:42:16
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Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
The only things I have to say on the subject are: 1. If you're going to believe and practice a religion, you should actually do it. There is no nobility in half-assing anything in your life. 2. Believe whatever you want to believe, but don't ask the rest of society to slow down for you. I don't want to live in 1st century Arabia. I want my gene therapy, cloned organs, freedom to marry or screw whomever I please, and I don't want to have to fight against zealots to retain them.

I mostly agree, but you can't exclude religious people from being a part of the democratic process. They have just as much right to shape the country based upon their beliefs as any atheist does.

No, they don't...

We're a republic, not a democracy, and that's one of the reasons for it.

Not to mention that you just insinuated that atheists have a set of beliefs as a group, they don't.
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 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-01-30 20:43:42
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Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
The only things I have to say on the subject are: 1. If you're going to believe and practice a religion, you should actually do it. There is no nobility in half-assing anything in your life. 2. Believe whatever you want to believe, but don't ask the rest of society to slow down for you. I don't want to live in 1st century Arabia. I want my gene therapy, cloned organs, freedom to marry or screw whomever I please, and I don't want to have to fight against zealots to retain them.
These two positions are incompatible unless you "lukewarm" your religion. Anyone who really word-for-words the monotheistic holy text has no choice but to destroy others that oppose their way of life because the text itself commands adherents to commit atrocities and justifies genocide through divine mandate. We already saw this play out for centuries across Europe before reason prevailed and religion became more warm 'n fuzzy in order to accomodate opposing beliefs. Anyone who peddles fundamentalism has no choice but to either wholesale ignore large amounts of text, lukewarm their religion or to engage in the type of behavior that is wholly incompatible with 21st century western secularism.

I have no idea what text you're referring to. Please give exact references.
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-01-30 20:44:27
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Jetackuu said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
The only things I have to say on the subject are: 1. If you're going to believe and practice a religion, you should actually do it. There is no nobility in half-assing anything in your life. 2. Believe whatever you want to believe, but don't ask the rest of society to slow down for you. I don't want to live in 1st century Arabia. I want my gene therapy, cloned organs, freedom to marry or screw whomever I please, and I don't want to have to fight against zealots to retain them.
I mostly agree, but you can't exclude religious people from being a part of the democratic process. They have just as much right to shape the country based upon their beliefs as any atheist does.
No, they don't... We're a republic, not a democracy, and that's one of the reasons for it. Not to mention that you just insinuated that atheists have a set of beliefs as a group, they don't.

Wait, so only atheists can vote? What country do you live in?
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-01-30 20:44:28
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Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
The only things I have to say on the subject are: 1. If you're going to believe and practice a religion, you should actually do it. There is no nobility in half-assing anything in your life. 2. Believe whatever you want to believe, but don't ask the rest of society to slow down for you. I don't want to live in 1st century Arabia. I want my gene therapy, cloned organs, freedom to marry or screw whomever I please, and I don't want to have to fight against zealots to retain them.

I mostly agree, but you can't exclude religious people from being a part of the democratic process. They have just as much right to shape the country based upon their beliefs as any atheist does.

I wouldn't have them out of the democratic process, I would have them keep bibliocentric legislation out of national affairs. Most debates should be settled exclusively based on reality. A 2000 year old book has nothing to say about gene-therapy, Jesus had nothing to say about organ transplant, etc. Extend the same credibility to all manner of irrational thought and we'd have laws requiring parents to check under the bed and in the closet for the boogyman before putting a child to bed.
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By Jetackuu 2014-01-30 20:45:04
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Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Jetackuu said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
The only things I have to say on the subject are: 1. If you're going to believe and practice a religion, you should actually do it. There is no nobility in half-assing anything in your life. 2. Believe whatever you want to believe, but don't ask the rest of society to slow down for you. I don't want to live in 1st century Arabia. I want my gene therapy, cloned organs, freedom to marry or screw whomever I please, and I don't want to have to fight against zealots to retain them.
I mostly agree, but you can't exclude religious people from being a part of the democratic process. They have just as much right to shape the country based upon their beliefs as any atheist does.
No, they don't... We're a republic, not a democracy, and that's one of the reasons for it. Not to mention that you just insinuated that atheists have a set of beliefs as a group, they don't.

Wait, so only atheists can vote? What country do you live in?

Don't be obtuse.
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 Valefor.Endoq
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By Valefor.Endoq 2014-01-30 20:47:36
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Jesus never said to kill the sinners and nonbelievers, he said the opposite of that.
He said to hate sin and to love the sinner and to show nonbelievers by living as Jesus did and in this way the Holy Spirit can touch them when they see his life in your works/fruits.
 
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By Jetackuu 2014-01-30 20:50:17
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Valefor.Endoq said: »
Jesus never said to kill the sinners and nonbelievers, he said the opposite of that.
He said to hate sin and to love the sinner and to show nonbelievers by living as Jesus did and in this way the Holy Spirit can touch them when they see his life in your works/fruits.

Depends, do you believe in the triad?

Personally I'm all for trying to live a better life, but what one dude possibly said thousands of years ago, I take with a bag of salt.
 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-01-30 20:56:10
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Jetackuu, just leave the discussion to Jassik. He does a way better job of presenting an argument, even if I disagree with him most of the time.

Anyway, back on topic, I think a lot of Christians end up becoming luke-warm because they're afraid of persecution. There comes a point where "secular" is taken to mean "anti-religion".
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