[dev1151] Job Adjustments: Rune Fencer

No one wants that, but if you try to tank the moment battuta is down(and it only lasts a whole 90 bloody seconds), you're either face down or standing with your gs up in the sky for 20 minutes between swings...which sucks either way.

Seigan most certainly has the same penalty as hasso with regards to recast/cast time.
Unless it was sarcasm at using seigan over hasso and i missed it? (probable i'm prety tired :D)

>< they better not! I've killed for less.

Minor note:
If Valiance is up, Vallation will have "No Effect" on you. (I'm sure most have already noticed this anyway) The opposite is not true (Valiance will overwrite Vallation)
The "Fast Cast" buff from both abilities will overwrite itself so you only need to cancel Valliance.

If you use spellcast + cancel:
<if spell="Valiance" buffactive="Vallation">
<castdelay delay=".2" />
<action type="Command" when="precast">cancel 531</action>
</if>
<if spell="Vallation" buffactive="Valiance">
<cancelspell />
<return />
</if>

What else could you be doing in those 20 seconds? dont give me "JA Delay makes me sads" either cause you can cast partway through an attack/WS animation.

You can fulltime it alternating them(pending dispels), why overwrite?

Enuyasha I have no idea what you're talking about, you even refuse /nin I don't know what you plan on tanking with this job.

So the best way to sove a job "burdened" with animation delay is to add more of it? Mkay. Utsusemi is not the best for all situations, specifically if you are just standing around waiting to swing for 20 seconds. How do YOU plan on tanking with this job is the question really.

Gonna repost here since maybe not everyone read bg:

Did some Inspiration testing, and if we ignore the optimal dmg part and go /nin, RUN seems pretty much invincible!

With inspiration/double march/haste/(only fast cast gear I have for run is acp body/athos hat/thaumas hands/loq earring) and 25% gear haste.

Recast were:

foil: 8sec
ni/flash: 7sec
ichi: 6sec

I'm not sure if it's possible to lower those but, rotating foil/flash, keeping run up, carol II/ barspell; vallation it seems really hard to let a run die, I know the game doesn't need Tank atm, but I can slowly see run fitting tank role!

As for dmg, on spreadsheet, run/sam isn't that far behind drk(no souleater!) for ally event and offer more survivability!

Was /drk JA haste ever tested ? And What would be the optimal run fast cast gear ? Anything better than this ?

JA 50%
Mirke wardecore 5%
Chelo feet 5%
Orvail pant 5%
Neck 5%(anything else in that slot w/o enmity -?)
Thaumas glove 4%
Athos hat 2%
Loq ear 2%
prolix 2%
Would prolly use haste 9% belt/ 3% thaumas/5% hat/ and some haste feet or legs to cap gear haste.

Feel free to share any idea to improve recast/enmity!

And this set for enmity/recast spell:

ItemSet 307472

Derp, you don't have to turtle if you're nin. Won't make it a good dd, but at least it lets you tank with a very short recast and high enmity flow.

They need to add this stuff fast, because right now on the newer stuff even THF doesn't matter with a hybrid evasion set, let alone a NIN and let's not even mention RUN.

Also making these gear mutually exclusive with key melee gear (Manibozho) is a horrible idea and they should feel bad for doing it.

with more animation delay and casting delay than flash and foil (probably combined). You limit part of your hate gathering abilities for "Surviveability" just like a DD will limit their DPS for the same. What we need is better mitigation without a subjob that will rape DPS like how PLD got Ochain so shield switching isnt astronomically bad.(incoming "Lol shield switching?")

/nin is not the ultimate sub for everything (if anything really) for tanking. Its great for mitigation, but you lose a lot (like less/no enmity from Ninjutsu [after that fix] and then shedding hate from Utsusemi [its intended and actual function].
You DO have to turtle at some point. With the way everything fukspams AoEs you arent going to be doing much if you are constantly spamming :Ni -> Ichi -> :Ni (With Flash and Foil wherever applicable). Its moree detrimental when applied than in theory.

Also, have they tested that Inspiration stacks with the recast reduction cap + magical haste reduction? If they did and it does, great!


I know that RUN has a few pieces (that i've seen) with lots of evasion and lots of haste. Manibozho (EVA path [which you need as attack path for Reso]), Bendi's/Mani, Phasmida (Not ALOT of EVA but meh),Ballerines (has atk-, but only shews i can think of with eva+haste in a quantity)Athos' Boots [derp i found these]. Im sure theres more but i'd have to look kinda hard for it >_>' unless BLUs hybrid EVA sets can be used for RUN :<

While not being amazing, run hybrid set if you're doing an event where you go /sam for the damage and need to swap to it, best I could find atm is:

ItemSet 296131

pdt/haste on legs put this at capped haste/40pdt/capped mdt.

Can even make some easy swap if needed for accuracy while not losing much dt/gaining hp! Honed tath/Mani body/Mani feet and so on!

And unlike some other dd, if everything start going bad and you can't sleep it cause you yell at your corsair if they don't dia II=>light shot full time, run can hold hate better than most dd!

you've also got 36~ MDT- in that set too :<

But yea, if the quality of hybrid pieces for light DD/RUN was better it'd be so much nicer :<

RUN isn't really starving for gear, the problem is that the existing gear doesn't work. They need to add really, really potent hybrid gear if they want RUNs to be dodging anything worth a damn while still keeping up other stats because right now even THFs have a hard time dodging stuff unless you're giving them stuff like Ninja's Roll or Mambo or whatever, and if you have to do that for it to be viable you might as well not even bother.

Or change how accuracy and evasion checks work like they did with attack and defense :<

I could see Pianissimo Mambo with a foursong BRD working out, but Ninja's Roll is a total waste :<

They have to make the job worth taking over others spot. There's a reason if ninja aren't invited to anything ever. Run does ok damage, but why would you take it over drk?(unless you're Ccl and can *** around with jobs cause you're the leader). Does above average hate generation, but no one cares. And so on.

Magic tanking, great...we've been over it already though, nothing casts only, aegis, no more 0 recast on runes, blablabla.

If we QQ as much as R/E/M they will make the AF give 0 recast on rune!

I think the only way people would start using RUN would be mob that can be shadow tanked and do huge magic dmg of one element or every mob need to be like Zapdos and do that new debuff that stop shield block!

You're comparing a job that has to be behind the mob for ungodly multiattacks and crit rate to a job that was not meant to be a DD and then add onto the fact that this job "tanks" with utsusemi and its only real survivable way without shadows is parrying/evasion/migawari neither of any of which are adequate enough in endgame where you just want to throw DD at the MB and the tank jobs just hold the adds or twilight zombie in the corner. Then compare it to the job that has abilities to sacrifice itself for better DD performance and is,in fact, an all around DD intentionally.

RUN has a hybrid DT-/Haset set, but the quality of that set is lackluster. Its possible for RUN to tank WAR/SCH mobs but expecting it to tank MNK/SCH mobs is asking for disappointment. RUN also has the same hate generation capabilities as PLD but it lacks mitigation from abilities or equipment. Without a shield PLD only has its abilities,traits,spells,and potency in DT- equipment to look to which without a shield you are adding atleast 30%~ damage to unblocked physical hits and 50% DT to high tier nukes and magic damage based TP Moves. Then again, you are also comparing a job that is emant to take massive damage in the face and live, to a job that is meant to survive the damage AND resists effects.

RUN IS worth taking in certain situations, theres just not a situation yet thats "worth it" [aka: everythings not a Zergfest where getting every DRK or MNK in every DD spot is important].

Maybe they are planning to put that on the "Enhances Rune Enchantment" ;) Or more resistance...and job traits that lower recast on relic/+2/Auged :<

You dont need to shadow tank at all is the point. Otherwise people would bring NIN and RUN would become the "poor mans DRK" just as NIN is the "Poor mans WAR" now. It'd be great if you could just use one element magic damage but thats what vallation/valliance are for now, the runes are mainly for max resistance not max damage- which is the most common misconception that is holding the job back. Even if they created some new debuff RUN would be there to resist it.

In fights with time limit(or even a stun roof like delve nm) survivability is strictly related to killspeed, therefore a dd run is not worth taking over drk(sacrifices too much for said survivability which will become naught when 40 minutes later stuns resist/time out).

It works great for uhh..wildskeepers! Yay...if only people did that with any kind of consistency and at a colonization rate of at least 70%.

You know, I actually thought after they removed it that maybe it was meant to be an extra effect from af(like relic enhancements), giving 2 seconds per merit, making it then a 0 recast at 5/5. We'll have to wait august...though I wouldn't keep hopes up at all.

JA's get reset occasionally, so you can reapply Vallation for the party and get the duration buff yourself too.
You may be also be holding something using Valiance and saving Vallation for when the rest get there etc.
Don't need it often but it's handy when those situations pop up.

Recast reduction caps at 80%. I remember reading that at some point i'm sure, Alacrity/Celerity bypasses it though i think?

This is what I was thinking for recast:
ItemSet 307508
Maybe swap the neck to 3%FC jeweled collar for 1% recast reduction less (pretty minimal loss)
74% recast reduction with just haste spell + Inspiration.

Exactly, the situation is not correct for its use. And again, you are comparing a job where its DD part is only meant for hate generation compared to a job where every fiber of its being is DD and getting more DPS [funny thing too, is DRK sacrifices its survivability to get more damage].


Might wanna remove Novia :< ENM-7 on Flash and foil hurrts more than ENM-3 on the fast cast torque. Can also put in orvails for FC and put up haste somewhere else.

I def agree, the job need awesome AF to have a spot in most ally, I'm sure the AF were horrible and after the merit complain they decided to delay the update to rethink the stat and make them somewhat usefull!

Do you possess lateral thinking Enuyasha? I feel like I have to spell out everything in my posts for you to understand my point. Drk will do more damage than run with LR down too. I say run over drk because the other spots are a different roles, if you want you can say run over sam too for Hennetiel delve, same result(worse actually).

I don't know why you think run is not correct to use in WK reives, that's the only thing it's good at.

Sleight of sword..I swear...

I didnt say that, and you are STILL comparing a full DD to a part DD. I feel like i have to spell everything out for you instead of the other way around. You dont see the intricacies in RUN and hybrid classes like it and then spam "So you want it to take the spot of a DD to DD inside a DD inside a useless whut!?!?!" You dont understand the point and then try to make me understand your misunderstanding. Comparing two DD's to a Non-DD is easy but it doesnt mean that RUN is not good for a specific purpose in a group setting and only shows that you wish it were a DD to put it in a DD slot.

I do agree, Sleight of Sword was a "WTF!?" >_>'

There are only dd to substitute...certainly you don't want it to go there over buffers and mages. Drk and sam are the slashing jobs, so that's why I don't say monk. But even then no, monk survives A LOT better than run. Like I said at least 20 times, run would work if we didn't have time and stun restrictions(hello WK)cause otherwise being a hybrid is absolutely worthless. Cause others either do a lot more damage or do a lot more damage while switching to survive mode. Run is behind in every case.
Not worth over drk, sam, drg and monk. And the rest of the alli is made of sch, cor, brd, whm, geo and sometimes rdm. All of which you can't drop.

Ya, durp moment there ^^.

would need to find another 4% haste in other slots (2% under gear cap at the least) to see any benefit from orvail. You keep the 10 evasion too.
Zelus Tiara would net you 2% (effective 6% on Athos's), can't see any other slots you could change without simply replacing 5% FC with 5% fc.

How about run in the sch instead of the pld! Inspiration is better than anything pld give to that pt :P

But yeah if it can survive them, run best use def seems those <25% colonization rate WKR since I believe they hold hate better than pld with spell/ja!



edit: so zelus+orvail > athos +w/e legs ? Also I can't get that 10% haste legs yet D:

Thing people seem to be forgetting is run can use other weapons beside gs. It has good skill in both sword and axe (it even gets the pld only sword ws). With sword it can do decent dmg with merit ws and gets added benefit of Sanguine Blade where can heal it self. Axe is supposedly good dmg output though I haven't messed with this much. These single hand weapons both benefit from new one handed buffs and let it hold a couple shields maybe best being flame shield that gives +30 fire resist(shield description is wrong) though the job still needs shield skill. Both war and rdm make good subs this way and maybe pld for jas/shield skills.

Oh and when run first came out I tried soloing shin and was winning. Only reason didn't was no macros so couldn't turn fast enough while hitting spells and jas when needed so kept rehealing his hp back up. Ended up fighting to a stalemate against him. It also did good against behemoth tanking him when a mistake in einjahar agroed all corse spawned and him causing a near party wipe.

I really want to try a low man shin with a run/nin and whm for fun.

People need high acc builds to have capped acc in delve even with all the acc buffs they're given, axe is out by default. Sword works, but I wouldn't sacrifice the lost damage for a shield considering there's 0 skill involved(can you even block with 0?).

Pld sub just sounds terrible.

But you STILL imply it as a DD in those situations and then compare invalid situations as valid ones. RUN will never be used in Delve boss runs and i accept that. BUT, it has certain criteria that will make it useful in other spots where you dont need 16 DRKs 1 PLD and fill the rest in with support/"stun walls"/"40 minute or time out" events. SCH is a hybrid job, GEO is a hybrid job, RDM is a hybrid job RUN is just the "useless" hybrid job because it doesnt fit into the nice prepackaged DD box it was assigned into the moment people saw the flashy Reso animations in the screenshots. ***, SAM is intended as a hybrid DDTank but its all nice and packaged as a DD, so thats how the playerbase goes with it.

The point being this: If you throw RUN into a situation it is not adequate enough in of course its going to fail. If you set up RUN as something its not of course its going to fail. The thing we need to look at is how to use it in situations it is actually good at.

Which is:

Tanking
Damage [Lunge+Resolution(even if at "less than DRKlol")],"Mitigation"[Parrying,Stoneskin,Phalanx,Evasion,etc.],Abilities[Spamming Runes, Lunge,Gambit,Battuta,Pflug Vallation Valliance Liement One For All (when needed)],Spells[Flash+Foil].

-Resistance
You can gain up to or OVER 300 resistance with Runes + 500 Enhancing Bar Spells + Pflug.

Fit it into situations that this can be exploited very well, and there you have it. DO NOT try to make it into DRK,SAM,MNK,and DRG because it is NOT DRK,SAM,MNK,and DRG and it will never be.