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[dev1151] Job Adjustments: Rune Fencer
By Kalila 2013-06-12 14:26:42
| 06-12-2013 02:19 PM | | Slycer | | BG Translator |  |
| | Mocchi: Rune Fencer Merits
Hello!
This post is to inform you about the merits for Rune Fencer.
The current plan is to introduce the following items as "Group 1" and "Group 2" merits.
Regarding the exact values, since adjustments are ongoing, there is a possibility that they may change prior to implementation.
Additionally, as long as we do not run into any major problems, these will be implemented on the test server update which will take place on Friday, June 14.
Rune Fencer Merits
Group 1 - Rune Enchantment Effect
Elemental resistance of rune enchantment increases by +2 per merit.
- Vallation Effect
Magic defense increases by +1 per rune per merit.
- Lunge Effect
Lunge accuracy increases by +3 per rune per merit.
- Pflug Effect
Resist rate increases by +1 per rune per merit.
- Gambit Recast
Recast is reduced by 10 seconds per merit.
Group 2 - Job Trait: Inspire
Enhances Vallation and Valiance with casting speed reduction.
Additional merits decrease casting speed by 10%.
- Job Trait: Sword Sleight
Enhances Swordplay with a Subtle Blow effect.
Additional merits increases the Subtle Blow effect by +5.
- Job Ability: Battuta
Recast Time: 5 minutes, Duration: 90 seconds
While in effect, grants a bonus to parry rate. Additionally, upon parrying, attacks will be countered with damage dependent on the enchanted runes present when the parry was activated.
Additional merits increase the parry activation rate by 4% per merit and the counterattack damage by +4 per rune per merit.
- Job Ability: Rake
Recast Time: 5 minutes, Duration: 30 seconds
Consume active runes to reduce the elemental resistance of the target.
Additional merits extend the effect duration by 3 seconds per merit.
Translated by: Slycer | |
| 06-14-2013 03:56 AM | | Gildrein | | Community Rep |  |
| | [dev1151] Job Adjustments: Rune Fencer
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| 06-17-2013 11:37 AM | | Slycer | | BG Translator | |
| | Mocchi: About Rune Fencer
From the list of problems with Rune Fencer playing an active part as a tank, the first thing that comes to mind is physical attacks. As of right now, its ability to counter against physical attacks is too low. Even if you eliminate this problem to some extent, many paladins have Aegis or Ochain, and because of their existence, its very difficult to expect another job to play the role of a tank in the same way. I think monk would be more qualified as a tank.
Thanks for your feedback.
Ability to counter against physical attacks
This will not be unique to rune fencer, but we plan to add equipment which reduces the amount of physical damage taken for all jobs.
As you have said, the ability to counter against physical attacks is best done by Paladin, and this superiority is intentional.
Rune fencers were not intended to be strong against physical attacks, so there are no plans to make additional adjustments specific to rune fencer to allow them to excel at this as much as Paladins.
Comparison against Paladin with Aegis/Ochain
We have previously discussed this in interviews and on the forums. If you compare on terms of magic defense alone, there is an advantage for Paladins with Aegis as it can evenly reduce the damage taken of all elements. However, rune fencer excels at reducing not only the damage taken from specific elements, but can also frequently resist abnormal status effects.
Additionally, while Aegis applies only to the Paladin itself, Rune fencer can also cut elemental damage taken by party members within the area of effect, so in this respect, the contribution to reducing overall damage taken by the party can be higher than that of an Aegis Paladin.
Also, from a more fundamental sense, it's spurious to compare an Ochain or Aegis Paladin to Rune Fencer in its current state. Once job-specific equipment corresponding to mythic and relic has been added for Rune Fencer, we can reassess whether the balance is appropriate and make any additional needed changes at that time.
Regarding the performance of Rune Fencer
In some respects, it is difficult actively fighting and tanking at the same time, and we do understand this.
With the addition of the merit points previously discussed as well as artifact armor, we believe that it will help improve the simultaneous fighting and tanking ability of rune fencer.
Since these will be the only adjustments at this time, we do not expect it to immediately be at its strongest level, but we will continue to make any adjustments necessary to improve the playability of Rune Fencer.
Translated by: Slycer | |
| 06-17-2013 02:09 PM | | Camate | | Community Rep |  |
| | Greetings,
Physical damage mitigation
Moving forward we plan on adding more equipment that reduces physical damage taken for all jobs, not only rune fencer.
The fact that paladin is the job that is most apt to deal with physical damage will not change; however, our goal is to bring other jobs closer to where paladin is currently.
Rune fencers are not supposed to be strong defenders against physical damage, and as such we have no plans to add stats that will make them like a paladin.
Comparisons to paladins with Aegis/Ochain
When comparing magic defense between the current rune fencer and equipment to a paladin that is completely decked out, a paladin with Aegis will be better at reducing the magic damage of all elements. However, since rune fencer excels at elemental defense, they are also extremely strong towards status ailments in addition to elemental damage.
Also, the effects of Aegis only apply toward the paladin, while rune fencers are able to spread the elemental damage reduction effect to party members making them extremely beneficial in party situations. When adding job-specific equipment to rune fencer moving forward, we will be paying careful attention to the balance between them and Aegis/Ochain and be making necessary adjustments.
Rune fencer stats
We understand that there are aspects that make it difficult for rune fencer to act as a tank and players often see them as being in a support role instead.
With the addition of the rune fencer merit point category as well as artifact equipment, we plan on making adjustments to make it more possible for rune fencers to tank and shine even more on the support front.
These are not the only adjustments that will be made, so rest assured that we will continue to adjust this job.
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| 06-17-2013 04:14 PM | | Slycer | | BG Translator | |
| | Mocchi: Follow-up Frenzy
Rune Fencer
I'm not particularly familiar with Paladin, but doesn't the effect of Iron Will together with Rampart also apply to party members?
Am I misunderstanding this?
Yeah, I'm very sorry about that. The effect of Iron Will does extend to party members.
[[I think they're talking about the Inspiration trait here, but I don't see it mentioned directly.]]
For Valiance, while the adjustment may be difficult, we would like to work out the effect so that it can be granted to party members as well.
Mocchi and everyone else, thanks for your good work over the holiday.
A while back, the development team talked about giving more meaning to defense, along with improving the defense of individual pieces of equipment to reduce damage taken further. If you're planning to continue adding equipment which directly cuts damage taken, are you still considering adjustments to the enemy attack/defense ratio and the mechanism for how defense reduces damage taken?
Eventually, we do plan to implement an adjustment which allows defense to be utilized better to cut damage taken; however, this may take a considerable amount of time to develop.
Since there are a lot of higher level monsters being added, and new content still to be implemented, while we work to balance the defense mechanism, we want to prioritize bridging the gap temporarily by adding equipment with which all jobs can cut damage taken.
Translated by: Slycer | |
 Valefor.Sehachan
Serveur: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2013-06-12 14:29:59
Probably
G1: 5/5 Rune, 5/5 Gambit
G2: 5/5 Inspire, 4/5 Battuta, 1/5 Rake(or maybe 0..not sure what's the difference with Gambit..)
 Leviathan.Kincard
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1442
By Leviathan.Kincard 2013-06-12 14:32:47
I'll quote the very first JP that responded to the dev post for my reaction:
Quote: ･･･
･･････Subtle Blow?
 Phoenix.KojoForum Moderator
Serveur: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 12308
By Phoenix.Kojo 2013-06-12 14:38:46
Probably
G1: 5/5 Rune, 5/5 Gambit
G2: 5/5 Inspire, 4/5 Battuta, 1/5 Rake(or maybe 0..not sure what's the difference with Gambit..) Seconded, but excluding Rake unless it's seriously useful.
Serveur: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2767
By Odin.Tsuneo 2013-06-12 14:40:05
These merits are kind of disappointing.
Valefor.Sehachan
Serveur: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2013-06-12 14:50:39
Only thing I'm disappointed to not see is a ja that puts up multiple runes at once.
[+]
Leviathan.Mckeag
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 204
By Leviathan.Mckeag 2013-06-12 15:08:14
[+]
By fillerbunny9 2013-06-12 15:12:27
proving that SE still really has no idea where RUN is supposed to fit in the game.
all of this should just have been given to RDM, because then they'd at least have some fun toys to play with solo because almost no one brings either to anything.
[+]
Valefor.Sehachan
Serveur: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2013-06-12 15:14:08
Tbh I don't know why anyone expected that 2 new ja and 2 traits would suddenly change run's world.
[+]
By Creecreelo 2013-06-12 15:17:33
Was really expecting to see some merits to enhance Embolden, perhaps 5/5 meaning that the enhancing spell casted on you would last for its entire duration.
Nope!! >.<
Phoenix.Kojo
Forum Moderator
Serveur: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 12308
By Phoenix.Kojo 2013-06-12 15:21:51
Tbh I don't know why anyone expected that 2 new ja and 2 traits would suddenly change run's world. Some expected Barlight and Bardark to be merits, too.
[+]
Leviathan.Kincard
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1442
By Leviathan.Kincard 2013-06-12 15:38:29
all of this should just have been given to RDM
RUN's Parrying/evasion boosts should've been applied to Ninja. Instead of adding in cool things for RDM and NIN they decided to take a lot of those ideas and mix them into a new job called RUN, which had a faulty premise to start with (A magic tank in a game where magic is rarely an isolated threat and there already exists a shield to reduce magic damage to less than a fifth of its normal damage).
SE needs to get a clue and stop making tiny tweaks to RUN and NIN because they're not competing against PLD- they're competing against Aegis and Ochain. If Ochain can reduce damage by like 90% the only choices are:
1. Make Kannagi (or insert your favorite katana) give a large (+50% straight?) evasion boost that has an amount that can surpass the 80% cap and introduce a RUN Mythic that gives a full-time Liement Effect and +50% parry rate.
or
2. Nerf Ochain/Aegis
Pick your poison. Note that I'm not talking about enmity issues here because that's pretty much universal for all 3 "tank" jobs rather than an actual balance problem between the 3.
[+]
By Quetzacoatl 2013-06-12 15:44:33
Quote: introduce a RUN Mythic that gives a full-time Liement Effect and +50% parry rate.
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaand this was what I was worried about
[+]
Leviathan.Kincard
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1442
By Leviathan.Kincard 2013-06-12 15:47:46
I'm not at all in favor of making it so that you have to own an REM just so I can play a damn job but at this point option 2 isn't going to happen, so the only way they'll fix RUN&NIN is by adding something that allows them to match Aegischain's nigh-invincibility. It doesn't have to be a Mythic but odds are that's the only place it'd make sense coming from.
Ragnarok.Alahra
Serveur: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 296
By Ragnarok.Alahra 2013-06-12 16:00:25
Leviathan.Kincard said: »1. Make Kannagi (or insert your favorite katana) give a large (+50% straight?) evasion boost that has an amount that can surpass the 80% cap and introduce a RUN Mythic that gives a full-time Liement Effect and +50% parry rate.
It'd probably be Nagi. -.-
By Vintehin 2013-06-12 16:03:48
Quote: Job Trait: Inspire
Enhances Vallation and Valiance with casting speed reduction.
Additional merits decrease casting speed by 10%.
Oh ! Exactly what I wanted, that great, and it will really change lot of things !
I don't think Run are made to tank like a PLD, but more like a support DD job.
A thaumas/delve RUN can do some nice damage, and Valiance is just completly amazing. Against mono-elemental mob like Khimera or Warmoura it's like a Aegis-Ga for all PT. That huge.
Cerberus.Pukushu
Serveur: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 331
By Cerberus.Pukushu 2013-06-12 16:07:21
Leviathan.Kincard
Serveur: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1442
By Leviathan.Kincard 2013-06-12 16:07:29
I don't think Run are made to tank like a PLD, but more like a support DD job. Playonline Vana'Fest 2012 Website said: Their exceptional magic defense and elemental resistance put them squarely in the tank category, along with paladins and ninjas
Creator incompetence and the playerbase making do are two very different things.
[+]
Kujata.Omnys
Serveur: Kujata
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6
By Kujata.Omnys 2013-06-12 16:14:33
I was certain RUN would see enhancing magic duration as a group 1 merit.
SE also has never ever ever balanced tanks well.. they don't even try.
By Quetzacoatl 2013-06-12 16:21:23
Leviathan.Kincard said: »I'm not at all in favor of making it so that you have to own an REM just so I can play a damn job but at this point option 2 isn't going to happen, so the only way they'll fix RUN&NIN is by adding something that allows them to match Aegischain's nigh-invincibility. It doesn't have to be a Mythic but odds are that's the only place it'd make sense coming from. I hear ya, I hate these types of extremes SE has to implement to make a tank job "usable"
Serveur: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4415
By Cerberus.Senkyuutai 2013-06-12 16:22:10
Subtle blow 5/5 is a given.
They outdid themselves, probably the best Job specific merit category.
[+]
Valefor.Sehachan
Serveur: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2013-06-12 16:26:18
They probably did it cause it's a popular choice in ninja merits!
Siren.Kyte
Serveur: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3332
By Siren.Kyte 2013-06-12 16:33:02
Rake might be useful for helping Stuns land if the effect is fairly potent.
Gilgamesh.Tenshibaby
Serveur: Gilgamesh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 971
By Gilgamesh.Tenshibaby 2013-06-12 16:42:19
proving that SE still really has no idea where RUN is supposed to fit in the game.
all of this should just have been given to RDM, because then they'd at least have some fun toys to play with solo because almost no one brings either to anything. Should double or triple the number of active 99RUN's running around... This means an increase of 0-2 active 99RUN's per server.
Serveur: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2013-06-12 17:02:02
impressively poor. only 2 or 3 of these are remotely useful and wont do anything to increase RUN's standing :\
Serveur: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1375
By Bismarck.Ruizutatakau 2013-06-12 17:05:13
Only thing I'm disappointed to not see is a ja that puts up multiple runes at once. If PUP never got a JA like that for Maneuvers I don't see why RUN would.
Valefor.Sehachan
Serveur: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2013-06-12 17:07:31
Bismarck.Ruizutatakau said: »Only thing I'm disappointed to not see is a ja that puts up multiple runes at once. If PUP never got a JA like that for Maneuvers I don't see why RUN would. Dancer did.
[+]
Serveur: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1375
By Bismarck.Ruizutatakau 2013-06-12 17:48:14
Bismarck.Ruizutatakau said: »Only thing I'm disappointed to not see is a ja that puts up multiple runes at once. If PUP never got a JA like that for Maneuvers I don't see why RUN would. Dancer did.
Why does RUN need it the way DNC does?
By Enuyasha 2013-06-12 20:16:31
Probably
G1: 5/5 Rune, 5/5 Gambit
G2: 5/5 Inspire, 4/5 Battuta, 1/5 Rake(or maybe 0..not sure what's the difference with Gambit..) 4/5 Inspire 5/5 batutta and 1/5 Rake would be better for parrying like a boss :< G1's yea...thats better :<
also:
Rake might be useful for helping Stuns land if the effect is fairly potent.
MOARE LUNGE DAMAGE GOGOGO!
By Enuyasha 2013-06-12 20:55:54
Anyway, now to speculate on the Relic+2 augments for these traits and JAs.....cause you know they are either going to be broken as *** or weak as ***.
| 06-12-2013 02:19 PM | | Slycer | | BG Translator | |
| | Mocchi: Rune Fencer Merits
Hello!
This post is to inform you about the merits for Rune Fencer.
The current plan is to introduce the following items as "Group 1" and "Group 2" merits.
Regarding the exact values, since adjustments are ongoing, there is a possibility that they may change prior to implementation.
Additionally, as long as we do not run into any major problems, these will be implemented on the test server update which will take place on Friday, June 14.
Rune Fencer Merits
Group 1 - Rune Enchantment Effect
Elemental resistance of rune enchantment increases by +2 per merit.
- Vallation Effect
Magic defense increases by +1 per rune per merit.
- Lunge Effect
Lunge accuracy increases by +3 per rune per merit.
- Pflug Effect
Resist rate increases by +1 per rune per merit.
- Gambit Recast
Recast is reduced by 10 seconds per merit.
Group 2 - Job Trait: Inspire
Enhances Vallation and Valiance with casting speed reduction.
Additional merits decrease casting speed by 10%.
- Job Trait: Sword Sleight
Enhances Swordplay with a Subtle Blow effect.
Additional merits increases the Subtle Blow effect by +5.
- Job Ability: Battuta
Recast Time: 5 minutes, Duration: 90 seconds
While in effect, grants a bonus to parry rate. Additionally, upon parrying, attacks will be countered with damage dependent on the enchanted runes present when the parry was activated.
Additional merits increase the parry activation rate by 4% per merit and the counterattack damage by +4 per rune per merit.
- Job Ability: Rake
Recast Time: 5 minutes, Duration: 30 seconds
Consume active runes to reduce the elemental resistance of the target.
Additional merits extend the effect duration by 3 seconds per merit.
Translated by: Slycer | |
| 06-14-2013 03:56 AM | | Gildrein | | Community Rep | |
| | [dev1151] Job Adjustments: Rune Fencer
| |
| 06-17-2013 11:37 AM | | Slycer | | BG Translator | |
| | Mocchi: About Rune Fencer
From the list of problems with Rune Fencer playing an active part as a tank, the first thing that comes to mind is physical attacks. As of right now, its ability to counter against physical attacks is too low. Even if you eliminate this problem to some extent, many paladins have Aegis or Ochain, and because of their existence, its very difficult to expect another job to play the role of a tank in the same way. I think monk would be more qualified as a tank.
Thanks for your feedback.
Ability to counter against physical attacks
This will not be unique to rune fencer, but we plan to add equipment which reduces the amount of physical damage taken for all jobs.
As you have said, the ability to counter against physical attacks is best done by Paladin, and this superiority is intentional.
Rune fencers were not intended to be strong against physical attacks, so there are no plans to make additional adjustments specific to rune fencer to allow them to excel at this as much as Paladins.
Comparison against Paladin with Aegis/Ochain
We have previously discussed this in interviews and on the forums. If you compare on terms of magic defense alone, there is an advantage for Paladins with Aegis as it can evenly reduce the damage taken of all elements. However, rune fencer excels at reducing not only the damage taken from specific elements, but can also frequently resist abnormal status effects.
Additionally, while Aegis applies only to the Paladin itself, Rune fencer can also cut elemental damage taken by party members within the area of effect, so in this respect, the contribution to reducing overall damage taken by the party can be higher than that of an Aegis Paladin.
Also, from a more fundamental sense, it's spurious to compare an Ochain or Aegis Paladin to Rune Fencer in its current state. Once job-specific equipment corresponding to mythic and relic has been added for Rune Fencer, we can reassess whether the balance is appropriate and make any additional needed changes at that time.
Regarding the performance of Rune Fencer
In some respects, it is difficult actively fighting and tanking at the same time, and we do understand this.
With the addition of the merit points previously discussed as well as artifact armor, we believe that it will help improve the simultaneous fighting and tanking ability of rune fencer.
Since these will be the only adjustments at this time, we do not expect it to immediately be at its strongest level, but we will continue to make any adjustments necessary to improve the playability of Rune Fencer.
Translated by: Slycer | |
| 06-17-2013 02:09 PM | | Camate | | Community Rep | |
| | Greetings,
Physical damage mitigation
Moving forward we plan on adding more equipment that reduces physical damage taken for all jobs, not only rune fencer.
The fact that paladin is the job that is most apt to deal with physical damage will not change; however, our goal is to bring other jobs closer to where paladin is currently.
Rune fencers are not supposed to be strong defenders against physical damage, and as such we have no plans to add stats that will make them like a paladin.
Comparisons to paladins with Aegis/Ochain
When comparing magic defense between the current rune fencer and equipment to a paladin that is completely decked out, a paladin with Aegis will be better at reducing the magic damage of all elements. However, since rune fencer excels at elemental defense, they are also extremely strong towards status ailments in addition to elemental damage.
Also, the effects of Aegis only apply toward the paladin, while rune fencers are able to spread the elemental damage reduction effect to party members making them extremely beneficial in party situations. When adding job-specific equipment to rune fencer moving forward, we will be paying careful attention to the balance between them and Aegis/Ochain and be making necessary adjustments.
Rune fencer stats
We understand that there are aspects that make it difficult for rune fencer to act as a tank and players often see them as being in a support role instead.
With the addition of the rune fencer merit point category as well as artifact equipment, we plan on making adjustments to make it more possible for rune fencers to tank and shine even more on the support front.
These are not the only adjustments that will be made, so rest assured that we will continue to adjust this job.
| |
| 06-17-2013 04:14 PM | | Slycer | | BG Translator | |
| | Mocchi: Follow-up Frenzy
Rune Fencer
I'm not particularly familiar with Paladin, but doesn't the effect of Iron Will together with Rampart also apply to party members?
Am I misunderstanding this?
Yeah, I'm very sorry about that. The effect of Iron Will does extend to party members.
[[I think they're talking about the Inspiration trait here, but I don't see it mentioned directly.]]
For Valiance, while the adjustment may be difficult, we would like to work out the effect so that it can be granted to party members as well.
Mocchi and everyone else, thanks for your good work over the holiday.
A while back, the development team talked about giving more meaning to defense, along with improving the defense of individual pieces of equipment to reduce damage taken further. If you're planning to continue adding equipment which directly cuts damage taken, are you still considering adjustments to the enemy attack/defense ratio and the mechanism for how defense reduces damage taken?
Eventually, we do plan to implement an adjustment which allows defense to be utilized better to cut damage taken; however, this may take a considerable amount of time to develop.
Since there are a lot of higher level monsters being added, and new content still to be implemented, while we work to balance the defense mechanism, we want to prioritize bridging the gap temporarily by adding equipment with which all jobs can cut damage taken.
Translated by: Slycer | |
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