Nin Finally Gets An Update!

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Nin finally gets an update!
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 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2009-07-03 18:58:22
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Heimdall said:
hmmm nin/dnc actually does have a voke so if the new ja adds enough enmity it could be a feasible new tanking sub not just for solo

Animated Flourish is all VE and only works if you can melee. Curing Waltz won't make up the difference in have generation vs /DRK either.
 Caitsith.Heimdall
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By Caitsith.Heimdall 2009-07-03 19:03:29
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nightfyre im starting think u arguing with anything i say just for the point of arguing with me
 Hades.Medjai
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By Hades.Medjai 2009-07-03 19:07:07
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well the think about nin/drk is you rely on a refresher more then anything in a pt outside of gods and such where as a PLD can keep going longer since it has items that give refresh which gives them 2 to 3 or 4 mp refresh so it can last a bit longer then nin/drk but course who goes nin/drk to lvl lol so idk guess im just talking now lol
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2009-07-03 19:55:36
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Heimdall said:
nightfyre im starting think u arguing with anything i say just for the point of arguing with me

Not really... For what it's worth, I'm sorry about earlier. I was in a bad mood and probably wasn't thinking clearly.

This time, however, is a different story. Animated Flourish generates 1500 VE once every 30 seconds. That's 300 less than Provoke and a net loss of 300 VE every 30 seconds. You're essentially reliant on Curing Waltz and the enfeebling Ninjutsu for hate, which is a pretty slow gain over time and again, relies on you being able to TP on the mob.
 Diabolos.Chupacabra
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By Diabolos.Chupacabra 2009-07-03 20:39:27
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I'm not sure... I've been able to hold hate as NIN pretty reliably by "only" spamming the elemental wheel and the occasional enfeeb. If the hate boost is decent, I'd feel comfortable enough to at least make an attempt to tank an XP party as NIN/DNC. The Waltzes and Sambas do add up hate incredibly fast, and they offset the weaker animated flourish (when compared directly to provoke) over time. But I'm sure it's like everything else, and purely situational. It might be nice if it gives NIN another viable subjob than "/WAR ONRY!". Although I will miss those extra double attacks. All in all, I think we'll have to wait and see how these new abilities work.

And WOOT! I can explode more often without having people *** as much! :D
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2009-07-03 20:45:09
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I was referring to events at 75, rather than EXP. It's potentially viable in EXP, but as I'm not a NIN I wouldn't really know.
 Ifrit.Kungfuhustle
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By Ifrit.Kungfuhustle 2009-07-03 20:47:00
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NIN/DNC tank in an exp party?

BLASPHEMY!!!
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2009-07-03 20:49:45
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lol

On further consideration, it does mean you'd need less support than /DRK but I'm still not sure how it sets up as far as enmity generation goes. And as I mentioned before, if you can't TP on the mob at hand it's useless.
 Ifrit.Kungfuhustle
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By Ifrit.Kungfuhustle 2009-07-03 21:00:23
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only way a NIN/DNC could generate any sort of enmity is through that new JA, CUring Waltz, and Animated Flourish, one of which needs TP while the other needs Steps from that tp.

that's just too much...

Just stick to NIN/WAR and I won't lol
 Odin.Blazza
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By Odin.Blazza 2009-07-03 21:03:33
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Are we done with the pld vs nin debate yet? There was a whole thread on this and it's a completely pointless argument. They are both very strong tanks in CERTAIN SITUATIONS! Some people prefer pld/nin more often than nin/drk, some prefer the other way around. I've seen both jobs tank ***that people thought wasn't possible.

There are 20 different jobs in this game, all with the option of having any of the other 19 jobs as a SJ, that's 380 job combinations, so guess what? There are always going to be people trying job combinations above and beyond the "approved" 50 or 60 combinations we know of, and occasionally they're going to work a lot better than imagined.

You all need to learn that there are people that can, and will play this game in entirely different ways than you might, but that doesn't make it the wrong way.

Seriously, pld vs nin? Use whichever works for you and stop trying to convert the rest of the world to your preference. ie: Get over it.
[+]
 Diabolos.Chupacabra
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By Diabolos.Chupacabra 2009-07-03 21:40:52
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If being able to hit a mob, and hitting 2-3 macros is too much every few seconds... umm... well, yeah. I don't know what to tell you. TP gain is never really an issue on NIN for XP parties. Endgame is a whole different bag of cheetos though... /WAR is simple because it's basically "Provoke" spam. /DNC might just need a bit more of an attentive player is all. We really won't know til we see these new abilities in action though.

Oh, and what Blazza said. EVERYTHING in this game is situational. EVERYTHING. It's the reason we still carry some of our random level 50ish AF armor around with us at 75 (Like my awesome BLM AF feet... those are teh bombzorz -.-). It is SITUATIONAL.

Ninja Edit: Our WSs suck donkey nuts anyways most of the time, so what the hell else would we be using our TP for?

<Ninja> "W00T! I just did a Blade: Jin for 500 damage!" <Dark Knight> "I just pulled off a 2k Guillotine..." <Ninja> "/wrist". ;.;
 
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 Asura.Ludoggy
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By Asura.Ludoggy 2009-07-03 21:56:50
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Bartimaeus said:
Combo Breaker.

Grats NINs on your soon-to-be update. Long time coming, but there it is. ^^

rofl.
Sarcasm...right?
 Ramuh.Alphir
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By Ramuh.Alphir 2009-07-03 22:00:55
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Blazza said:
Are we done with the pld vs nin debate yet? There was a whole thread on this and it's a completely pointless argument. They are both very strong tanks in CERTAIN SITUATIONS! Some people prefer pld/nin more often than nin/drk, some prefer the other way around. I've seen both jobs tank ***that people thought wasn't possible.

There are 20 different jobs in this game, all with the option of having any of the other 19 jobs as a SJ, that's 380 job combinations, so guess what? There are always going to be people trying job combinations above and beyond the "approved" 50 or 60 combinations we know of, and occasionally they're going to work a lot better than imagined.

You all need to learn that there are people that can, and will play this game in entirely different ways than you might, but that doesn't make it the wrong way.

Seriously, pld vs nin? Use whichever works for you and stop trying to convert the rest of the world to your preference. ie: Get over it.


Very well put, and thanks for saying so. For awhile I thought I was in the Pld vs Nin forum for some reason ><
 Ramuh.Thunderz
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By Ramuh.Thunderz 2009-07-03 22:08:16
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o.o

ok

why does updates always end up in HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE debates

woooo new update

/end

Its that simple people!
 Quetzalcoatl.Wilfightforbeer
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By Quetzalcoatl.Wilfightforbeer 2009-07-03 23:16:41
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Heimdall said:
Wilfightforbeer said:
I really like this update for NIN been soooo long and finally i has JA~!!!!!!!!! no more opening my JA menu's and staring at the useless mijin gakure @-@. Oh also love the update to the 2hr.


i see a new lolcat coming..


cool someone gave me a compliment ^^
 Caitsith.Heimdall
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By Caitsith.Heimdall 2009-07-04 00:38:38
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playign mnk/dnc right now and had side thought /dnc has the steps to lower mob eva to offset the lost off acc form the ja depending how much it is and /dnc has bonus acc job trait

hell maybe u'll see a increase in I wings sales for nins carrying them around to get started otu at beginign of fights
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By Fairy.Xxnumbertwoxx 2009-07-04 00:44:16
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Chupacabra said:
The Waltzes and Sambas do add up hate incredibly fast, and they offset the weaker animated flourish (when compared directly to provoke) over time.


Yeah, while I've personally never partied with a NIN/DNC before (except for one attempt that didn't work out very well due to it being a lower level party), my experiences with DNC you can pull a LOT of hate with the cures and drain. It was everything I could do to NOT take hate, and coupled with enmity gear and such I can't imagine it being that hard to hold hate as a NIN/DNC.

Of course, I've never tried it myself so I don't know for sure. I would like to see a 75 NIN/DNC honestly...
 Fairy.Azulmagia
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By Fairy.Azulmagia 2009-07-04 00:45:25
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Well, from what I understand for BLU tanking, the main issue with /DNC is, indeed, hate control. I can't imagine it being terribly different for NIN.
 Asura.Hiidan
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By Asura.Hiidan 2009-07-04 00:58:28
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Xxnumbertwoxx said:
Chupacabra said:
The Waltzes and Sambas do add up hate incredibly fast, and they offset the weaker animated flourish (when compared directly to provoke) over time.


Yeah, while I've personally never partied with a NIN/DNC before (except for one attempt that didn't work out very well due to it being a lower level party), my experiences with DNC you can pull a LOT of hate with the cures and drain. It was everything I could do to NOT take hate, and coupled with enmity gear and such I can't imagine it being that hard to hold hate as a NIN/DNC.

Of course, I've never tried it myself so I don't know for sure. I would like to see a 75 NIN/DNC honestly...

I use it all the time for soloing around and in campaign battle. I still dont see it as a feasible option even after the update in parties though.
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2009-07-04 01:00:09
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Azulmagia said:
Well, from what I understand for BLU tanking, the main issue with /DNC is, indeed, hate control. I can't imagine it being terribly different for NIN.

That surprises me a little bit, given the amount of hate tools we have natively. I would have thought the problem was with TP generation. We don't generate TP terribly quickly to begin with and then tanking as BLU I'd assume you're generally wearing an Earth/Terra's Staff, swapping to swords for a quick CA VCleave to SC or something.
 Odin.Ahligieri
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By Odin.Ahligieri 2009-07-04 01:02:29
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Yonin looks delicious. It might hurt dmg a little during the exp phase of NIN because of acc down (if you decide to use it) especially with Jin, but crits might help that out...a little bit, idk. But for endgame, I'm sure earth/terra staff using NIN/DRKs are going to love this ***up.

I don't like the behind-the-enemy thing on Innin, but this is better than no update at all lol.
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2009-07-04 01:04:20
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Supposedly the crit thing translates differently from French or something. Says it's a reduction in crit% taken, not crit+ for the NIN.
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By Shiva.Artemicion 2009-07-04 01:36:28
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I'm sure if done in the right time and situation both abilities will prove awesome and incredibly useful. I look forward to seeing what they're both capable of and potential updates to them.
 Asura.Sharpe
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By Asura.Sharpe 2009-07-04 02:47:32
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Kungfuhustle said:

like I said, at least now NIN can actually hold hate


A good NIN can anyway.
 Leviathan.Antonioklaus
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By Leviathan.Antonioklaus 2009-07-04 02:50:35
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You know what this is going to accomplish most? Mijkin NM claiming. Remember when RMT would do that to claim despot in sky? Imagine if they had this ability under their belt.
 Garuda.Wooooodum
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By Garuda.Wooooodum 2009-07-04 03:53:41
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Well, as somebody who lives on NIN for a variety of purposes, this update's fantastic. Enmity when tanking in Dynamis or Limbus, increased evasion when in front of monsters when soloing, etc... Why are people complaining? I can't fathom why any NIN would be unhappy with these updates. This is exactly what the job's in need of.

The Mijin Gakure boost is just a bit of fun, that won't affect much with regards to everyday playing of the job.

Antonioklaus said:
You know what this is going to accomplish most? Mijkin NM claiming. Remember when RMT would do that to claim despot in sky? Imagine if they had this ability under their belt.


There's the small problem of the monster going unclaimed when you die. If you were the person who claimed, chances are most of your alliance got blocked. If somebody would try to claim with Mijin Gakure, then they're pretty stupid, to be honest. That's probably why RMT used it.

Nightfyre said:
Supposedly the crit thing translates differently from French or something. Says it's a reduction in crit% taken, not crit+ for the NIN.


That would suck, but I'd like to see some sourcing for that claim if you have it.
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By Leviathan.Antonioklaus 2009-07-04 05:13:47
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Wooooodum said:

There's the small problem of the monster going unclaimed when you die. If you were the person who claimed, chances are most of your alliance got blocked. If somebody would try to claim with Mijin Gakure, then they're pretty stupid, to be honest. That's probably why RMT used it.

No, Mij is stunless. It doesn't get interrupted like the other stuff does with claiming. You insta claim the mob and all your buddies trying to claim it, get their dia, stun, etc off. RMT on leviathan used it to outclaim everyone with it. I've had guys in my shell claim KA with it. It works pretty well.
 Garuda.Wooooodum
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By Garuda.Wooooodum 2009-07-04 05:19:38
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No, you misunderstand my point. If you claim with Mijin Gakure, and you are the specific, first claimer (so the first person to avoid the block timer), there is a chance that your alliance members were blocked and stunned from the block; which means you are on the ground and your alliance can't act on the monster for a couple of seconds.

This means somebody else will claim it, because it will go yellow. The chances of you being the last person in your alliance to attempt a claim and having everyone else in your alliance blocked are quite low, but the chance is there, so the fact remains that you're stupid to try it.

Congratulations to those who claimed King Arthro with it, but they're still stupid not to use provoke. One day they'll lose a claim and learn their lesson though. I've seen it happen many times with Ninjas who think they're badass for Mijin Gakure claiming!
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