Endeavoring To Awaken --A Guide To Rune Fencer

I got lucky on first kill, too bad I was after the torque. Took me 4 kills for torque and body.

Just as additional data point, it ended up taking 5 kills with TH10 or so on each.

What is the current consensus on the Lionheart these days? I just got 50k beads for the first time and I am wondering if it would be worth making a Lionheart if I plan on making an epeo when I finally get to legend in 2 months?

geomancy being nerfed on a lot of stuff kind of ruins it in comparison. it's still potentially your best dd weapon when you can reach the require ratios, but nyame b is really strong with dimi.

From my experience, Lionheart has fallen off quite a bit ever since the introduction of Nyame. If you've got high rank Nyame (not necessarily capped, but maybe R15+), my experience is that Epeo + Dimi almost always beats Lionheart + Reso, all while having 25% native PDTII and 23 enmity as a bonus (even when DDing, it's better for a mob to be on the RUN than a DRK or WAR). We can get up to about 80% WSDMG now without sacrificing attack, which boosts Dimi significantly (as long as you save TP to 1750+) and Reso not very much.

At capped attack Lionheart basically closes the gap (though Epeo still has its other benefits), but RUN gets very little PDL gear, so we can't fully exploit it like DRK or WAR can.

I noticed Vivacious Pulse didn't have the formula in bg wiki for where job point bonuses occur so I tested where it gets floored. I didn't search very hard to see if anyone had actually checked it either...

Setup:
Divine Skill = 439
STR = 142
1 Ignis rune
20/20 Vivacious Pulse job points


two guessed formulae:
10 + FLOOR(439 / 2 * 1.2) + FLOOR(142/2) = 344
10 + FLOOR(FLOOR(439 / 2) * 1.2) + FLOOR(142/2) = 343

in-game result: 344 HP healed. Looks like it's the first formula, marginally in our favor.

I also tested Tenebrae for MP healing:

Setup:
Divine Skill = 439
1 Tenebrae rune
20/20 Vivacious Pulse job points

two guessed formulae:
FLOOR(439 / 10 * 1.2) * 2 = 104
FLOOR(FLOOR(439 / 10) * 1.2) * 2 = 102

in-game result: 104 MP restored. Again, marginally in our favor. The description of the job points only indicates "HP healed", interestingly. I wonder if the JP client also shows that?

EDIT:
does anyone have Futhark Claymore/Peord Claymore/Morgelai to test if the bonus % is additive or multiplicative to this job point bonus?

Setup:
Divine Skill = 437
STR = 136
1 Ignis rune
20/20 Vivacious Pulse job points


two guessed formulae:
Formula A:
10 + FLOOR(437 / 2 * 1.2) + FLOOR(136/2) = 340
*This is the one I viewed in game

Formula B:
10 + FLOOR(FLOOR(437 / 2) * 1.2) + FLOOR(136/2) = 339

Morgelai Result:
Formula A with R25 SU5:
10 + FLOOR(437 / 2 * 1.2) + FLOOR(136/2) = Floor(340x1.3) = 442
*This is the result viewed in game*

Formula B with R25 SU5:
10 + FLOOR(FLOOR(437 / 2) * 1.2) + FLOOR(136/2) = Floor(339x1.3) = 440

I would assume SU5 is a direct modifier to final result, math supports.

Edit: As an aside, I've had a bug post since August saying SU4/SU5 do not modify MP return from Tenebrae runes, I didn't feel it was necessary to retest.

Thanks! Added to the wiki and thanks for confirming my test as well.

BG wiki claims that Swordplay increases ACC/EVA by 6/tick for RUN main, but I am actually getting 3/tick. I am also getting 3/tick for /RUN. Can someone else verify?

The page for Futhark Mitons +3 also claims that it increases the base by 9 ticks, which is true by my test with the rate of 3/tick, not 6/tick.

Hey, is there a more up to date RUN spreadsheet? The one stickied is from 2019. I had a search but failed to find any posts with a more recent version.

What's everyone's thoughts on Rigorous Grip +1 vs Utu Grip for Reso?

Utu by a wide margin

I think he meant "Rigorous Grip +1 R15" and accidentally typed "Refined Grip +1".

Supposing I'm right I'm not sure what would win, depends on your gear to a certain extent.

Utu has more acc, but less attack and no STR. It has a powerful 10% DEX mod though.

Rigorous adds 19 STR, 45 base att (15 more than Utu) plus the att from STR.
In unbuffed att situations or low buff situations Rigorous might win.
Shouldn't you be using Dimidiation in those situations though?
Given RUN's severe lack of Attack, Resolution is not really that huge unless you're superbuffed or have some sort of additional TP bonus to counteract the Att penalty on the WS.

With Nyame I think Dimi would easily win between the two, not to mention it's 25% attack buff and RUN naturally having low attack to begin with. Utu kinda makes Dimi's 80% DEX worth even more as you don't have to split stat buffs like you would with Reso's 85% STR.

R25 Nyame you mean?
Probably.
R20 I'm not sure. Maybe? Possibly?
Nyame has alas very low DEX.

At value above R10~15 most likely.

I just had this conversation with someone about Nyame, it doesn't really have low DEX, or low STR, or low of any stat, but neither does it have high values of any stat. The way SE iLevel works is they assign each slot a base value of X for level Y, then individual pieces get boosted up / down based on armor type. I guess that since they made Nyame "all jobs" armor, it got plain stats without and type specific boosting.

Nyame Mail
DEF:189
HP+136
MP+88
STR+35
DEX+24
VIT+35
AGI+33
INT+42
MND+37
CHR+35

Sakpata's Breastplate
DEF:194
HP+136
MP+59
STR+42
DEX+25
VIT+42
AGI+25
INT+24
MND+28
CHR+26

Bunzi's Robe
DEF:159
HP+72
MP+59
STR+23
DEX+25
VIT+23
AGI+21
INT+48
MND+43
CHR+42

Agwu's Robe
DEF:154
HP+61
MP+88
STR+33
DEX+30
VIT+19
AGI+20
INT+47
MND+37
CHR+35

Gleti's Cuirass
DEF:184
HP+91
STR+39
DEX+34
VIT+39
AGI+26
INT+26
MND+26
CHR+26

Ikenga's Vest
DEF:164
HP+79
STR+33
DEX+43
VIT+28
AGI+39
INT+24
MND+25
CHR+26

Mpaca's Doublet
DEF:174
HP+84
STR+39
DEX+37
VIT+34
AGI+28
INT+28
MND+25
CHR+28

And yes Rune being on Agwu's is fcking criminal. It should of been on Gleti's or Mpaca's at least.

For general DT rings on RUN are BiS still defending and moonlight? Or something else?

moonlight, gelatinous ring+1 r15 are strong HP/pdt options

STR? Not at all, it has decent values of that.
But DEX?
Compare it to other pieces used for high-DEX mods, like Rudra's Storm for instance.
It's gonna lose on those jobs, or at least it was the case for R20 Nyame.
I performed the calculations myself because I was skeptic after reading results from other people, but alas I had to confirm that sometimes Nyame wasn't good enough for physical single hit high DEX based WSs.

Is this the case for dimidiation as well? I don't know, I was wondering about it myself in the previous post because I don't have the answer.
It's just that I wouldn't be surprised to see some nyame pieces beaten by other options, at R20.
R25 though I have very little doubts.


For reference, it's just a super generic value to make examples and as such it has to be taken with a grain of salt, but for a WS like Rudra, 1WSD is roughly equivalent to 5DEX.
That's certainly not the case for Dimidiation though... 2 hits, no ftp transfer, lower FTP but has an att multiplier.

Yes for decently high WSC WS's 4-5 state is about what 1WSD is worth, so it's always a slot by slot basis. That being said, RUN doesn't exactly have a ton of naturally high WSD stuff, it's going to all be DM augmented Herc. Nyame beats most of those now, more so if we actually start counting Atk / Acc differences.

Heya sorry noob question, been getting into run from pld and not sure how to handle these 2 things yet:

1) How do I RUN properly in crawler's nest aoe parties? With PLD I find it easy with just majesty cure spam, not sure how to get started on run. Trying to get to su3/master asap and it seems that's what would be the fastest, just don't want to make an arse out of myself
2)For ody segs farm evasion build, is it just the case to use a set like bgwiki +2 mambo (has to be SV or normal is fine? and play run normally I imagine? I pretty much got most of the set but not sure how to play it and would hate again to gank a pug without knowing how to best do it <.<

What do you mean with your first point? How to keep monsters on you? You have to be into their enmity list.
Normally you do that with AoE spells.
Sheep Song, Geist Wall? It's what I use most of the time.
Once they've been tagged you can keep enmity on yourself with keen usage of JAs (Vallation, Valiance, Liement with Epe and One For All generate lotsa enmity, but there's more) then spamming Foil whenever it's up, more Sheep Song/Geist Wall if need be, and so on.
Keep Cocoon/Phalanx up, that's it.

If you don't like /BLU you could AoE pull with /DRK and poisonga but I'm biased against it so I'm not the best people around to tell you how to use /DRK.


I'm not good with Eva builds on RUN but there was a very constructive discussion between me and Buukki several pages ago where I posted a couple of sets and Buukki told us how to do things there and the utility of Swordplay.
For Segments you usually tag monsters with shockblade, which is instant so you don't fall under the issues generated by precast/midcast sets, then SIRD builds and everything else.

Sorry didn't elaborate my point 1 much, iirc there's a cap on how many targets you can tag with offensive spells, which I guess pld can avoid by curing people with hate I'm lead to understand (say their AE tags a mob you didn't hit before with a spell, and then cure them)? Not super familiar with tanks mechanics as you can see, just learning pld and run due to LS needs. If this is nonsense sorry, learning still, pretty much never had to do big pulls :P

My understanding was that on pld you can pretty much pull half the zone and be fine while run might struggle? If that's not the case I'm a happy camper, because yeah I was planning to do what you wrote on /blu :P

for eva ty I'll go check the previous pages!

I died on a run today because of this. I pulled 3 groups on 4th floor, and i apparently missed a few while tagging? they woke up 1 shot the brd them whm. gotta pay extra attention during that, annoying tbh

Each shockwave has its own hit check, it can miss some mobs, you can always cast a regen on the brd (assuming he hit some mobs you missed with lullaby) then use foil/ja for hate on mobs you didn't actually tag tho.

Isn't there a maximum target hit cap? like X amount of mobs per one ability.

https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/55179/mass-pull-enmity-mechanics/1/#3534917

TLDR is that you can only add 15 mobs to the hate list in a given action. This works by mob ID, and if you cast a second AoE on the same set of mobs, it will affect the same mobs, enmity wise. Although the player's direct target is always included in the set of 15. So it's really direct target + the 14 mobs with the highest mob IDs.

So, on any pull with more than 15 mobs, you'd either have to tag them one by one, or move your AoE around the group in such a way as to hit only some of them each cast(Pretty much impossible to do when you're the tank. Jettatura, as a conal spell, will sometimes hit a smaller subset of the mobs in the wave, if they aren't too tightly clustered, so this can successfully tag a few more mobs depending on mob positions and IDs.)

Curing or otherwise acting on other players can get you on the hate list, but only specifically for the monsters those players have acted on. And if said players used an AoE that hit the entire group, then they'd be getting enmity on the same subset of mobs you already tagged successfully.

This causes unstable hate situations once either some mobs die, and AoE's start adding new mobs to the hate list. Or someone acts directly on a mob that was enmity excluded from the AoE, after with aoe buffs/cures can pull hate on that mob by hitting the actor.

You can mitigate this somewhat by using new AoEs as mobs die. With that mobs ID removed, a new mob will be added to the set of 15.
The WS hitting or missing is not relevant to adding them to the hate list. Any action successfully performed(as in it wasn't paralyzed or interrupted, not as in the action hit/landed) will add the actor to the mobs hate list. Except in the case that the mob was enmity excluded by the mechanic described above.

There is also a separate limit on how many mobs the action will affect at all. If you pull 100 mobs, and sleepga some mobs will not be slept at all. Same deal for damaging AoE actions. This is why with super huge pulls in Crawlers Nest[S] you'll kill a few mobs then suddenly see a bunch of mobs with full or almost full HP. the AoEs weren't hitting them until some of the other mobs died.

I currently estimate this limit to be around 64 targets, but have not verified that value.

64 including self and each person in party loads first then lowers it by 1 (I think) should be able to tell by the chain when PLD cleaving. Another odd thing that seems to happen is once next set of mobs loads in their HP % doesn't move much then goes from like 90 to 0% in 2 or 3 WS, maybe just the next autotarget one.

Is the limit "only" 15? I thought it was double the amount of that.
So you can damage more than 15 enemies with an AoE (or sleep them, debuff them, petrify them etc) but only 15 of those monsters will be considered "tagged" by you? As far as enmity is concerned.

So with the all said above on RUN to summarize in crawler aoe pulls:

1) spam shockwave trying to change targets around
2) Regen people like the brd that might take hate
3) Spam the usual hate blu or drk spells and foil/ja
4) Pray to SE that by all the effort above there's no strays going to the support?

I've re read the posts a few times and not sure if there's anything I missed, I kinda just want to try the aoe pulls but yeah, on pld I would not be scared with majesty, on run still feeling not very confident xD

edit: or I suppose I can do smaller pulls but do them more often?XD

I used to BLU cleave Apex Bats/Crabs in Dho Gates in the SE room and there would be a few mobs being unaffected by Malaise every time, and there are certainly not 30 mobs in there.