Endeavoring To Awaken --A Guide To Rune Fencer

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Endeavoring to Awaken --A Guide to Rune Fencer
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By geigei 2019-02-17 12:11:46
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I love how this turned into /drk vs /sam.
Am i the only one /war? Also i enjoy my ashera fulltime now.
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2019-02-17 12:12:30
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Once you're at capped enmity, it doesn't really matter. Unless the mob has frequent resets, /drks additional tools really don't matter.

/sam can quickly swap between hybrid dps and solid tanking, if /drk has to cancel last resort they lost their chance to dps for 5 minutes. There are a lot of moves that are slow enough to third eye reflexively and guarantee you won't eat a debuff/dispel/whatever, even if not using seigan.

The fast aoe tag is a significant benefit to using /drk. I'm not sold on the rest, you've obviously played the job, hate issues don't exist unless it's pre-ilevel content or DPS are reaching hate cap.

geigei said: »
Am i the only one /war? Also i enjoy my ashera fulltime now.
I use /war for bead spam to get an extra quick hate spike at the start of each fight, since they last less than 60s. I don't really think there's much argument by anyone for using it on serious content. You have worse long term hate generation than /blu, and you aren't putting up any real damage without hasso or last resort.
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By Asura.Shiraj 2019-02-17 12:13:41
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What do you like about /war, can i ask? any of the 3 main subs are just that much better at anything.

Also i wish i had ashera... i am very unlucky from aman, and went on a solo gin spree to try get it and had ***luck as well... i just am not meant to have it.
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By Afania 2019-02-17 12:56:47
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Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
Once you're at capped enmity, it doesn't really matter. Unless the mob has frequent resets, /drks additional tools really don't matter.

/sam can quickly swap between hybrid dps and solid tanking, if /drk has to cancel last resort they lost their chance to dps for 5 minutes. There are a lot of moves that are slow enough to third eye reflexively and guarantee you won't eat a debuff/dispel/whatever, even if not using seigan.

The fast aoe tag is a significant benefit to using /drk. I'm not sold on the rest, you've obviously played the job, hate issues don't exist unless it's pre-ilevel content or DPS are reaching hate cap.

geigei said: »
Am i the only one /war? Also i enjoy my ashera fulltime now.
I use /war for bead spam to get an extra quick hate spike at the start of each fight, since they last less than 60s. I don't really think there's much argument by anyone for using it on serious content. You have worse long term hate generation than /blu, and you aren't putting up any real damage without hasso or last resort.


This, I don't understand why certain group of people put /drk on such a high pedestal either, while bashing /SAM for being useless.

If I'm DD or DD tanking, I really really rarely cast any spell unless I need to refresh temper. Cast spells lower DPS, it's better not to cast any if you are DDing. I don't even see foil worth it for DD unless the TP move really cripples dps or something. So the casting disadvantage of /SAM is minimial.

I personally find last resort extremely dangerous for DD tank against any NM with strong physical TP move. Perhaps the pov difference came from having an epeo?

Since I don't have epeo, if I "DD tank" I do it in lionheart and just gain TP via parry and hitting. If Battuta is up I don't even use hybrid set. I guess for epeo users last resort is not dangerous since they have 25% -35% pdt full time even in max tp set. But without these free pdt last resort can be deadly. Hence I prefer to DD tank /SAM.

That being said, since Physical limit + update I think /DRK gains some extra advantage for dps. So the only real disadvantage now is probably just defense penalty.
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By Afania 2019-02-17 13:04:37
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Asura.Elazar said: »
For me the biggest benefit of going /drk is your still able to tank pretty well, if things go south, due to poisonga. Hasso is nice yes, then your just a flat out melee, and not going to compete with a drk or sam anyway, it’s about being able to help out dps wise and if the omg ***button happens you can switch to tank mode in a heart beat

And here is the thing....I think me/Comeatmebros opinion on what "DD tank" is different from yours/Shirajs.

When I said "DD tank", I mean RUN would sit in the tank slot, but attempt to do as much DPS as possible. In terms of playstyle it's not much different from a War or DRK. We just buff then spam WS at 1000 tp, TP in lowest DT set unless it's oh ***moment in red HP. And we also mean 6 man party like ambu, not alliance party like dyna/omen.

I feel that when Shiraj talked about DD tank, he seems to meant RUN plays mostly like tank, aka pulling in omen/dyna, tank all mobs, and use WS whenever TP hits 1000.

In that case, casting and aoe will play the bigger role. But IMO that's more of a pure tank and not so much DD tank if they sit in tank pt instead of DD pt.
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By Asura.Shiraj 2019-02-17 13:19:00
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Me and comeatmebro definitely have way different playstyles no doubt. Neither is right or wrong, or better than the other, but it's just how i play is all.
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By Taint 2019-02-17 14:02:23
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Definitely prefer /drk. Stun, bash, LR are all great hate forms. LR can cap haste with zero casting penalty.

Battuta, LR, sword play all share the same timer.

DRk has ga spells to tag mobs then can focus hate with flash/stun/foil rotation. Pretty much perfect for dynamis groups that call/assist mobs.

With RUN tagging mobs takes more thought than actually keeping hate. JAs for days and foils low recast are great for keeping hate.

Epeo,cape,moonlight ringx2,Ashera is a great first hybrid toggle depending on how many hybrid sets you use.
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By Afania 2019-02-17 15:43:13
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Taint said: »
Definitely prefer /drk. Stun, bash, LR are all great hate forms. LR can cap haste with zero casting penalty.

Battuta, LR, sword play all share the same timer.

Battuta has 1.5 min duration, LR is 3 min. So there's 1.5min window that LR will be up but not battuta.

If LR and battuta can be stacked full time then half the issue with defense drop can be solved. It isn't so that 1.5 min LR without battuta is still very dangerous.

You have epeo, Shiraj has too. I think that's probably the key that gives people different opinion.
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2019-02-17 15:45:09
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I have 6 epeos and I still wouldn't use last resort vs w3 boss or specific w2s because we don't run barrier. RUN damage isn't great enough in an alliance to really be worth it, imo. If the only reason barrier is being used is so RUN can ride last resort safely, then better off using fury and hasso.

I'm not saying /drk is useless and never have, but to write /sam off as useless is equally silly. RUN doesn't need sub to tank, and /SAM provides safer and more consistant hybrid.
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 Asura.Shiraj
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By Asura.Shiraj 2019-02-17 16:26:23
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I wrote /sam as useless as my playstyle has no place for it.
when we do/done wave 3 clears we had 3 geos, if i am hybrid DD, i am a back up tank as /drk and there is room for barrier in the tank party.

The /drk is for possible AoE hate IF needed, LR is for when i want to output as much dps as i can and if the mob turns to me, barrier will reduce the damage i take during LR.
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By Asura.Byrne 2019-02-17 23:04:59
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/DRK makes sense if you are the only tank, and the party still needs damage from you. If the party doesn't need damage from you then /BLU, if the party has another tank that can get AoE hate but needs your damage, /SAM. It's your experience that makes your biases here, all 3 are good in certain circumstances.
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By Afania 2019-02-17 23:22:36
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Asura.Byrne said: »
all 3 are good in certain circumstances.

This.....+111

Im totally ok with people preferring certain SJ. However Im not ok if as soon as people pick certain useful SJ its being bashed as "do it wrong" in the community.

Ive heard certain people in game claimed "if you dont /drk you are doing it wrong", and I think that doesnt help inexperienced people learn the pros and cons of different SJ.
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By Asura.Ladyofhonor 2019-02-17 23:46:29
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Personally I'm not a fan of anything but /BLU if in Dynamis. But that's because my usual setup involves two parties of DD, so we don't need any damage from the tank, just them to not take damage. I swap between DRK and SAM subs based on the fight and my mood for most other content.
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By geigei 2019-02-18 06:33:22
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You guys should try /dnc with waltz set.
 Asura.Shiraj
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By Asura.Shiraj 2019-02-18 06:53:33
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Used /dnc for Sealed Fate, was baller for main curing.
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By Asura.Fondue 2019-02-18 07:15:46
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forgive my ignorance- I'm very new to rune fencer, if people are going /sam are you stacking so much FC gear that the hasso casting penalty doesnt matter or what?
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By Leviathan.Kingkitt 2019-02-18 07:24:09
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Asura.Fondue said: »
forgive my ignorance- I'm very new to rune fencer, if people are going /sam are you stacking so much FC gear that the hasso casting penalty doesnt matter or what?

Rune can cap FC without a problem? But hasso is a ja, it's instant regardless
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By Asura.Fondue 2019-02-18 07:25:52
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wat
While Hasso is active, a 50% increase in casting and recast time will be applied to any and all magic, songs and Ninjutsu.
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By Asura.Kusaregedo 2019-02-18 07:39:06
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oversimplified, but /sam holds hate primarily through damage dealt (or is an outright dd), /blu holds hate primarily through enmity spells, and /drk is somewhere in between.

so for /sam you shouldn't be casting as much anyway.
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By Asura.Fondue 2019-02-18 07:45:21
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but still casting foil/temper/phalanx/crusade?

I'm just wondering what people wear or do for casting as /sam with either hasso or seigan up, I dont really know how the inspiration merits work with that either
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By Asura.Kusaregedo 2019-02-18 07:47:27
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yes. the last 3 are often pre-fight spells anyway, flash and foil once for short duration fights, as needed for longer ones.
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By Leviathan.Kingkitt 2019-02-18 09:11:42
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Asura.Fondue said: »
wat
While Hasso is active, a 50% increase in casting and recast time will be applied to any and all magic, songs and Ninjutsu.

Completely misread your post, my bad!
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By Taint 2019-02-18 10:17:28
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/DRK has some advantages not being discussed.

Stun is 1280v 180c enmity, instant cast. For single target it’s an incredible tool. For multi target <4 mobs I prefer it over /blu.

Tag all the mobs if needed. Foil, flash, stun rotation.

Smite II. (/Sam gets non)
Damage limit II. (/Sam is I)


/blu is very limited on single or even low target with long spells (3sec, 320/320 emnity) in a Interrupt set you are pretty much spam castling.
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By Asura.Shiraj 2019-02-18 11:53:41
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Has anyone on this thread appreciated rune? i feel like no one says it lol. It's such a good job.
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By Afania 2019-02-18 11:59:48
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Asura.Fondue said: »
but still casting foil/temper/phalanx/crusade?

I'm just wondering what people wear or do for casting as /sam with either hasso or seigan up, I dont really know how the inspiration merits work with that either

We were talking about DD tanking, not just tanking. When you tank instead of DD tank, the playstyle is different.

As a DD tank, Casting spell should be limited to temper only, because anything else doesnt worth the dps sacrifice.

"DD tanking" on RUN is pretty much identical to how you play war and sam, WSWSWSWSWS. Your hate will be capped just by doing big fat resolutions.

I dont cast foil when I DD tank unless tp move has additional effect that lowers dps so much. Resolution is a strong WS, but foil delay takes 3 sec and it needs too much recast. So its losing 0.5 ws everytime its used.

Phalanx is a great spell for pulling in omen, less useful against single NM because majority of death risk came from high dmg tp moves. I dont feel the dps sacrifice is worth it too.

Crusade is useless once your hate is capped with dmg dealt.

I generally only cast spells before engage and only ever refresh temper, unless situation change and it demands tank to play more defensively.

Many people has the mind set of "tank" when they discuss DD tank, but in fact this term frequently refer to playstyle similar to ninja.

Foil/phalanx/crusade is more of a spell used for tanking when your goal is to reduce dmg taken and gain enmity through JA/spells, not so much for DD tanking when your goal is to deal as much dmg as possible.

Taint said: »
/DRK has some advantages not being discussed.

We are aware and it was discussed.

Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
Once you're at capped enmity, it doesn't really matter. Unless the mob has frequent resets, /drks additional tools really don't matter.

Stun is useful for hate reset, but for enmity generation it doesnt seem great if RUN is buffed. Its only 1280 VE and it has 3 sec delay. So anytime I cast it I lose 0.5 resolution which can generate more enmity no? Its a 30k to 50k ws.

I dont think we are talking about the same scenerio anyways. We are talking about DD tanking in ambu or 6 man pt, not tanking in dyna.


Taint said: »
Smite II. (/Sam gets non)
Damage limit II. (/Sam is I)

We are aware. Thats why I prefer /drk more than /sam if Im pure DDing and not getting hit at all.

But if Im sitting on the tank slot, and NM has strong physical tp move, Im not gonna risk my life with last resort def-, not with a lionheart at least.

All of the benefit that you listed comes with 30 def- cost, thats the biggest reason why I dont prefer it. Id absolutely prefer /drk if LR doesnt attach to 30% def-.
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By Asura.Fondue 2019-02-18 12:32:25
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Right I see what you mean, so there is no utility to a full-fc-every-slot to overcome the hasso delay and still cast because thats not what you'd be doing /sam?

Just trying to get an idea- I dont play with crazy strong dd so anything we fight takes a little bit of time to kill and I feel like I'd still need foil/flash/etc and whatever to live

I'm certainly not doing 50k resos ;;
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By Asura.Saevel 2019-02-18 12:56:52
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RUN DD strength isn't in pure damage, it's a middle DD in that aspect. Instead RUN resists debuffs that would cripple other DDs and shrugs off magic damage like it didn't happen. Makes it a really unique DD style to play.
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By Asura.Shiraj 2019-02-18 13:02:22
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Fondue, Rune Fencer is a wide variety of a job, by that I mean it can be played in many ways, you should definitely try many different approaches to the job and see which playstyle suits you best.

And one very important thing to note, If you are slightly newer to the job I would holy endorse that you get a good/decent understanding of the tanking mechanics before you try put together any form of DD aspect of the job.

The reason for this is that Rune has a high demand of attention, from personal experience and seeing it to others, if you stop paying attention for a short time you can often be killed faster than you realise. Once you learn the job's capabilities, and more important, your capabilities, then i'd say put together a good DD build and dish out them high number resos.

The hybrid side of the rune is the top side of the job. Watching some people hit them high numbers while tanking is satisfying, but even though your numbers aren't that high, don't be discouraged - it can easily be changed with a bit of help.

If you're on Asura i'm more than willing to help you grasp the tanking side of the job. Although I can DD very well on the job, it's not my strong point in all honesty. There are many people who can do the DD side of rune much better than me who would be more of a help than me, but i'm here anyway.
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By Siren.Kyte 2019-02-18 13:40:21
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Afania said:
Crusade is useless once your hate is capped with dmg dealt.

Not entirely- having some extra enmity on you is useful for reducing enmity loss via taking damage so that you can more easily maintain said capped enmity.
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