For The Shinies! A Guide For Thief

Only thing that changes from unstack to stack really is Herc to Meg Body/Relic+3 Body

(*)footnote for Kareiyah and Epimoninda's being better stacked and unstacked (attack dependent)

stacked:

ammo -> yetshila +1 *


body -> relic+3 (unless the enmity+30 is that bad for your SA)

in theory with att cap I think af+3 beats meg body too but the att isn't practical that often.


(I'm sure that if you're using relic legs now for rudra, for TA rudra a perfect herc might beat out lust? it's really nitpicking tho)

I don't SA in the relic+3 body because then I'm tanking more. I guess technically I could make some toggle for it for when I want to be tanking, but that also kind of defeats the concept behind getting a sneak attack off if I'm tanking. But yeah other people are right, Yetshila+1 for ammo, Meghanada body for when you swap to SA WS.

Also it's come to my attention "someone" has criticized my usage of Moonlight rings in a TP set over Chirich+1. So let's go over it:

Moonlight: HP+110, att+8, DT-5
Chirich+1: Acc+2, stp+1, subtle blow+10, regen+2

Now, if I'm making a subtle blow set and don't have a WHM, then there's absolutely room for chirich+1 in a TP set. But the other day someone mentioned THF being a squishy DD, and I guess the person choosing to use chirich+1 over moonlight would be why they think that.

huh.. that's odd because I literally see no situation where Chirich x2 would be more desirable than Moonlight x2. Just like you said:

Chirich +1 x2 = Acc 20, STP 12, Subtle Blow 20, Regen 4
Moonlight x2 = HP 220, Acc 16, Atk 16, STP 10, DT -10%

I have very little faith in Subtle Blow so I see no reason for Chirich to even exist when Moonlights are available(just my opinion, I know SB CAN work)

I'm not sure who started it exactly but I did add to saying THF is kinda squishy. When I play WAR, BLU, RDM I can usually use my normal Melee sets without needing to use DT or Hybrids unless something happens. But on THF, I pretty much have to use the Hybrid full time or else I get swept by random AoEs and such and I'm a Galka :< Not knocking it at all, THF loses very little DPS riding Hybrid but the simple truth is that at stock value it IS squishy. Not quite as bad as a BLM but not too far from it either lol.

I just think it comes with the territory; any aspiring THFs should recognize that they'll need extra defense in their normal sets for this job.

When you're soloing that SB+ is "noticeable", but also you're probably not giving a ***about it and going full dd rings.

Any rings are only going to shift it like 10 dps anyway, silly to say moonlights are "worse" than chirich. They will give your whm a heart attack though. losing 220 hp every 10 seconds will really screw with a trusts AI and lesser players.

How is Vajra with the augments?

I swing about 700-800 max HP from idle to TP sets. CurePlease loves me.

Same place as it used to be, great if you're in a low buff situation, as the only way mandalic competes is if you're starved for attack. The OAT part of AM3 isn't nearly as good as it used to be since you'll be sitting at almost 50% TA with some DA, which effectively halves the impact of the AM3. But it will still do some.

Generally buffed vs unbuffed is a toggle

state.WeaponskillMode:options('Normal', 'Acc', 'Mod')

I'm not sure your assessment is correct. Aeneas wasn't *that* far ahead of Vajra before hand, but Vajra got +15 damage to Aeneas's +6, and Vajra got another +15 WSD on Mandalic, while Aeneas got nothing on Rudra's. And while the AM3 is of diminished value, you're talking going from 30% base multi-attack (60% on one dagger), to 15%... which isn't bad at all. And Vajra Mandalic at 1k base TP beats Aeneas Rudra's at 1k base TP, even after accounting for TP bonuses (though Aeneas will come ahead with more than 1250 base TP). Though, of course, Vajra has 20% more WS under perfect play, plus the SA/TA bonuses.

At this point, it seems that Aeneas will come ahead not when you're spamming WS, but when you're making use of its aftermath and skillchaining, but Mandalic will come ahead when you're just spamming WS.

Moreover, when you're in a set that *isn't* your full DPS, the loss of TA hurts Aeneas a lot more than it hurts Vajra. In something like Turms, for example, Vajra should come way ahead.

Unfortunately every part of Vajra is a disappointment

Except the part where you don't have to use exenterator

All the melee mythics just get worse and worse (*)PK is really good though as an outlier

Vajhra is good for when Mandalic is needed for light sc.

How is that So? Here's dps comparsion of a none terp mythic using same gear and ws:




Not thf I know, but it's the spreadshet I have with augment update and more importantly, it's comparing with a very strong empy with one of the biggest boost and still won. Assuming augments are implemented correctly.

Seems to me that mythic is still pretty damn strong.

Edit: Just noticed there's a new version came out and almace augment did win in the update......RIP Tizona.

Sword is more about how bad sequence is than how usable zona is

Nvm, reading the other thread the cdc augment wasnt implemented correctly. In new version almace did win by about 200 dps.

Still, almace is probably a weapon that benefits the most from augments because how wsd applies to all hits. And tiz probably wins if user isn't spamming cdc. I wouldn't say all melee mythic are bad.

Tizona has benefit that Expiacion is good and the mp thing is extremely useful.

Unless there's a crit gimmick or I know I need the light sc prop I usually use expi

Sup

Skinflayer offhand augs: Damage +20 Dex+1 Accuracy+11 Attack +18 Store TP +3

Should I keep going? Seems like a decent aug but I am worried about losing it unless the stats already on it get better or some triple instead of store tp. Working on a well augmented Taming currently.

thx

Im pretty sure triple attack is considerably better than stp. Last i checked stp was about the same of double attack.

Eh, to some degree it's a balancing act. The more TA you get, the more value STP has. THF normally has a ton of TA because of it natively and that's what light armor tends to favor, so STP in big chunks is very nice. The issue is that on augments you usually see TA in much more favorable quantities than STP. So I usually stick to STP in slots which don't offer me any/much TA.

I think 1:1 ta still wins by a rather large margin.

TA also beats qa 1:1 (on thf, probably blu and rdm too)



-also of note don't forget trait/hetaroi/relic feet dmg bonus

I don't stream often, but decided just now to stream a THF cleave video, take a look if you'd like: THF cleaving Omen

How exactly does TA beat QA in equal quantities on THF?

Easily. Triple attack damage.

1:1 is going to be so god damn close it's completely irrelevant anyway.

Changed Herc boots from 6TA to 6QA dps dropped by 10.
Changed Adhemar gloves from 4TA to 4QA dps drops by 8.
"But it overvalues white damage" > no ***, it overvalues everything.

(just for giggles you'd have to triple the STP to maintain same DPS)

Assuming you are making the choice between equal amounts for the same equipment slot, TA>QA because every point of QA reduces the value of each point of TA due to standard proc order.

EX: Let's say I have a grand total of TA+40% currently (none in ammo slot,) and they release two new ammos: one with TA+5% and one with QA+5%. The TA+5% would win.
100 swings
TA+45% = 135+55 = 190 swings
QA+5%/TA+40% = 20+108+59 = 187 swings 20+114+57 = 191
20+85+66=171

So, we end up with a grand total of 1x extra swing, and 21x swings which lost out on dmg+11%~21% bonus..

Average attacks per hand for 40% TA would be 1.8, 1.9 for 45%, and 1.91 for 40% TA/5% QA.

You don't really get into scenarios where 1 TA adds more hits per round than 1 QA until after 50% TA- though the DPS advantage for 1 TA will occur sooner.

Odd question.

When closing Darkness sc with Rudras, would it ever be worthwhile to swap in affinity pieces like Pixie Hairpin +1 / Archon Ring / Orpheus's Sash for the buff to sc damage or would the loss of ws damage make it moot?

Those don't work.

Only sc bonus stuff like Mujin band would

They actually do work.

However, due to how skillchain elements work, items like Pixie Hairpin will only have an effect on Darkness SCs if the SC picks the darkness element to hit, making it incredibly unreliable unless you REALLY micromanage your sets.

Orpheus Sash is more reliable, but will ultimately depend on how much of a benefit your normal belt gives, how much damage your target takes from Darkness SCs, and how often you're closing Darkness SCs compared to not (unless you have sets for both closing and not closing).

Wait, forgive me for asking but where was it ever established that QA lessens the likelihood of TA/DA? It's been my understanding that the order is set in priority to prevent values from clashing whilst removing the Single-Attack probability. For example, WAR can hit 100% DA and never Single Attack, or Gain 5% QA, 10% TA, 85% DA and when attack rounds are observed over time should see those same values reflected. I'm pulling this from memory from lots and lots of Multi-Attack testing over the years due to Ridill, Ganesha's Mala, Twilight Knife, and Windbuffet Belt. It's my understanding that the rates should not interfere with each other unless your value crosses over the 100% cap.
IE: QA > TA > DA > Single.
Your Attack round is set at 100% (100% that you will swing) so your QA model should look like 5% QA > 40% TA > 0% DA > 55% SA

5 QA > 20
40 TA > 120
55 SA > 55
So should be 195 Swings vs 190 unless there's testing done elsewhere to prove that the rates interfere with each other prior to fully depleting Single-Attack chance.

Not saying either of you are wrong about the Value of TA in this case, especially with Triple Attack Damage in the mix. It just seems strange to think that the rates are skewed is all.

So if there's a link somewhere, I'd love to read