The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos |
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The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos
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In that WAR TP set Flamma ring > Moonlight.
I like petrov a lot, i don't know why people prefer flamma.
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Asura.Korgull said: » I like petrov a lot, i don't know why people prefer flamma. You’d have to post your full set. Petrov’s DA+1 is wasted in the standard chango TP set. So flamma wins because of the set bonus. Asura.Korgull said: » I like petrov a lot, i don't know why people prefer flamma. 1% DA does nothing when you're already at 100%. I'll have to make some numbers then, idk how much DA i have.
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Taint said: » In that WAR TP set Flamma ring > Moonlight. Offline
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Asura.Cladbolg said: » Spaitin said: » that new epa ring is pretty meh. . regular karieyh works just fine. if not niqmaddu is great Everything i have seen as far as testing and theorycrafting has it behind niq and nq kari. that -10 STP is pretty bad. Brutal edges out ishvara. Ishvara is perfectly fine though. So if i already have the Epa ring would it be better off than Karieyh NQ? Epa + Niq vs. Kareiyh + Niq? Thank you Offline
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I think the bigger problem is having Karieyh. It's one of the SoA rings that after they introduced Epa is not that obvious choice even for DDs, unless you are hardcore WAR and it really messes up that 3 hit build.
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I am coming from a hardcore DD standpoint. in which case basically none of the other rings are much to look at. if you have kari, then use that over epa. if you dont have kari then epa is "okay" with stuff like regal being a bit preferable imo. In all honesty, very few scenario where epa is best option imo. it tends to ad a hit to your xhit.
The next best adoulin rings for DD are probably the movement ring (replace with skadi) which is meh and then the voccane which is unneeded with all of wars new DT gear. Offline
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Spaitin said: » I am coming from a hardcore DD standpoint. in which case basically none of the other rings are much to look at. if you have kari, then use that over epa. if you dont have kari then epa is "okay" with stuff like regal being a bit preferable imo. In all honesty, very few scenario where epa is best option imo. it tends to ad a hit to your xhit. The next best adoulin rings for DD are probably the movement ring (replace with skadi) which is meh and then the voccane which is unneeded with all of wars new DT gear. I disagree completely. Epa is usually as strong or stronger than Kari for many DDs. Kari+1 is only basically 1-1.5%% stronger than Epa only on something like Upheaval, Insurgency and Impulse Drive (so WSs with very low fTP on first hit, that scales very well with TP and are multihit on top of that) and that 1% advantage is on first hit only, not entire WS. On entire WS it's less than a 1% increase in WS. For example for Torcleaver, which is only 1 hit and has better fTP from boot, Epa is marginalyl better than HQ Kari and unless it messes up your xhit (probably not), you should use Epa. Same for Tachi: Fudo and many many other WSs. So TL;DR Kari (including HQ) is only better for few WSs and usually by 1% increased damage on first hit only. Now movement speed ring is the only way to get 18% movement and stay at ilvl119 for some jobs. 11 light affinity is massive WS damage ring for RNGs and RDMs. Pet ring is great for pet jobs. Craft ring is a must have for people who have serious craft on their mains. All 4 adds something unique in a ring slot, while Kari being very marginal improvement for few WSs on few DD jobs. What good does 18% run speed accomplish. You book/hp/mount/U-warp/VW warp everywhere. If your party all tako then you're slower than they are even with 18%.
If you refuse to tako get hermes and run 12%, there's no difference between 18% and 12% and you get a useful ring out of it. Offline
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Asura.Eiryl said: » What good does 18% run speed accomplish. You book/hp/mount/U-warp/VW warp everywhere. If your party all tako then you're slower than they are even with 18%. If you refuse to tako get hermes and run 12%, there's no difference between 18% and 12% and you get a useful ring out of it. I know kiting might be an old thing, but I still find it very useful for some oh ***moments and having movement speed and your regular ilvl119 idle armor pieces is very useful then. Still I don't have that ring too, I have craft ring currently, but if I would change it to anything, it would be Light Affinity ring or pet ring, because they actually have a big impact for their niche. Kari has almost no impact when I have Epa already. Offline
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SimonSes said: » Kari+1 is only basically 1-1.5%% stronger than Epa only on something like Upheaval, Insurgency and Impulse Drive (so WSs with very low fTP on first hit, that scales very well with TP and are multihit on top of that) and that 1% advantage is on first hit only, not entire WS. SimonSes said: » messes up your xhit (probably not) DirectX said: » I took movement speed ring on all my chars and have never regretted it. Offline
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Spaitin said: » since this is the war thread This is true, but % people playing only WAR even in WAR thread is probably very low. Spaitin said: » I am going by austars numbers who came to the conclusion that the epa is a pretty marginal improvement at BEST from options that already existed (my own agree with him). I'm 99.9% sure that Kari is also pretty marginal Improvement at BEST from options that already existed for Upheaval (Regal, Niqmaddu) even more for Impulse Drive. Spaitin said: » They have other gear you can get easily for movement speed. Again true, but if you play many jobs its inventory saver and it also allow you to keep strong defensive idle set with 18% movement. Also WAR has no option for 18% mvoement speed at all and I will risk an opinion that in something like Dynamis D, 6% more movement speed would result in more dps gain (from engaging faster by running faster between mobs) than from Kari+1 over Niqmaddu/Regal. Offline
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SimonSes said: » I will risk an opinion that in something like Dynamis D, 6% more movement speed would result in more dps gain (from engaging faster by running faster between mobs) than from Kari+1 over Niqmaddu/Regal. Offline
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Spaitin said: » It adds a hit to your xhit build pretty often What adds hit to xhit? Im talking about using Niq/Regal over Kari+1/Niq or Kari+1/Regal. Kari+1 is marginal improvement over both of them if its any improvement at all for Impulse. Offline
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im talking about what was originally discussed. wars most common ws using epa over kari. or going kari/epa. it adds a hit. i have already stated that impulse and epa is fine. although with 100% we found kari/niq to be ideal. and i guess to clarify. 3 hit as in 1 ws and 2 attacks (with war that is 1 attack round with sam/fighters). which war can do with 100% da. so yes i mean ws attack + atack for 1k+ tp. 344-364 tp return on upheaval with 333 tp per hit on each swing of chango for a total of 1010-1030 in 2 hits after 1 ws. with a rostam 11 fighters roll you can actually get that closer to 1050-1070. with new DD food might change things. This is just referring to the above buffs that were mentioned. saevel is just still pissy. you can actually see him referring to a 3 hit cycle with chango about 20 pages back.
Please remember he's using a bit weird definition of x-hit as the number of hits between WS's instead of the number of hits from 0 (actual definition). When going from WS to WS the TP return of the WS counts as the first hit. This get super important on one hit WS's as we tend not to WS in Store TP gear.
Typical Chango default build is 5-hit (WS +4), Samurai's roll reduces it to a 4-hit (WS +3). With WAR's 100% DA these look much shorter due to every attack round being two hits, and retaliation also comes into play causing invisible TP gain. For dynamis, most of the damage is being done (or should be done) by the BLU's who are AoE burning packs of mobs, the melee's are really just cleaning up a bit. The red statues champions on the other hand are were melee's like WAR shine because they can multi-step SC them into the ground. The Store TP -10 ring is pretty bad, but shouldn't have much difference on Upheaval because of it's multi-hit nature bringing in more TP then is necessary for the first hit of the 4-hit cycle. Offline
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Asura.Saevel said: » Spaitin said: » Was playing with a r15 conqueror war the other day. They geared their tp set with as much sTP as possible. I think we have been sleeping on that weapon. You can get a legit 3 hit build with an 80%+ chance of a MA proccing. It is actually super strong. Glad to see that weapon isn't worthless. Sam/Fighters roll was used and had 3k TP before every fight. Chango can already get that but with over 100% MA proc (2.10 average attacks per round). Conq's bonus to Berserk is worth more then it's AM effect for Warriors. The AM effect is only worthwhile if your starting with 3K and doing a quick KJ -> Upheaval -> KJ SC cause it's actually helpful for the WS's while being virtually useless for TP gain. Edit**** fixed the quote so Saevel can understand I am calling him a hypocrite. on page 148 if you care to look. Offline
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Asura.Saevel said: » Please remember he's using a bit weird definition of x-hit as the number No he is not. He actually means 2hit + WS. He has a set that mostly only he uses that is actually a 3hit build. When he is talking about standards, he actually means his standards, which are actually way above actual standards. He has sets for almost all buffs and scenarios when most WARs have like 3 sets and most of them dont have special sets for 11 sam rostam roll. Spaitin said: » im talking about what was originally discussed. You are discussing with only me I think and I wrote this SimonSes said: » Spaitin said: » since this is the war thread This is true, but % people playing only WAR even in WAR thread is probably very low. Spaitin said: » I am going by austars numbers who came to the conclusion that the epa is a pretty marginal improvement at BEST from options that already existed (my own agree with him). I'm 99.9% sure that Kari is also pretty marginal Improvement at BEST from options that already existed for Upheaval (Regal, Niqmaddu) even more for Impulse Drive. Spaitin said: » They have other gear you can get easily for movement speed. Again true, but if you play many jobs its inventory saver and it also allow you to keep strong defensive idle set with 18% movement. Also WAR has no option for 18% mvoement speed at all and I will risk an opinion that in something like Dynamis D, 6% more movement speed would result in more dps gain (from engaging faster by running faster between mobs) than from Kari+1 over Niqmaddu/Regal. If you need other ring from SoA, you are not forced to ruin your xhit build with Epa, you can still use Regal+Niqmaddu. Kari is marginal gain over both of them and sometimes its probably not even a gain. I have no time to actually calculate it now, because I have sick kid to take care of, but I will do it later. Offline
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SimonSes said: » If you need other ring from SoA, you are not forced to ruin your xhit build with Epa, you can still use Regal+Niqmaddu. Kari is marginal gain over both of them and sometimes its probably not even a gain. I have no time to actually calculate it now, because I have sick kid to take care of, but I will do it later. Offline
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DirectX said: » Well I have Epam anyway so the difference with Karyieh is negligible. I would swap speed ring for Kariyeh if Epam+Kariyeh was BiS for WS but I don't believe it is for anything? I think Epam + Kari is bis for at least Expiaction because that WS has big split on WSC and BLU has no access to Omen rings or Gere. For War its probably marginally better for Mistral and SB because they have rrally high ftp on main hit and less multihit hits and lower WSC from stats presented on Omen rings. All that makes Kari more marginally better than for Upheaval or Impulse. For Upheaval and Impulse Im not even sure if Kari beats Niq + Regal. 10 Vit is probably like 2-2.5% increase in total Upheaval damage and 10 Str is probably another 0.5-1% from fSTR. So around 3% overall. 3% to whole Upheaval should be at least on par with 4% to first hit especially with diminishing return on WSD. Niq is 100% better than Kari imo and Regal probably too. I would need to make better caculation. If Spaitin could provide numbers for Impulse and Upheaval sets without rings it would be faster. Offline
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ItemSet 367495
15 vit and 4 wsd on oddy hands and legs ItemSet 366516 this set changes a bit depending on if I have misers on or not. 15 str on ody hands and legs 4 wsd as well As far as modeling goes I am a bit wary because you are basically only going to get an accurate WS calc for 1 isolated WS since it has been confirmed that no spreadsheets for war are accurate atm. austar never completed the sim afaik. I mistrust spreadsheets. Every few months we find out there is a pretty big issue. Like the one on the sam thread a few months back. as far as exact numbers on each one, not really sure . ill leave that to you. if you run the number make sure sam/fighters. Regal is a perfectly fine sub for kari. I would be surprised if anyone even noticed the difference. Spaitin said: » Asura.Saevel said: » Spaitin said: » Was playing with a r15 conqueror war the other day. They geared their tp set with as much sTP as possible. I think we have been sleeping on that weapon. You can get a legit 3 hit build with an 80%+ chance of a MA proccing. It is actually super strong. Glad to see that weapon isn't worthless. Sam/Fighters roll was used and had 3k TP before every fight. Chango can already get that but with over 100% MA proc (2.10 average attacks per round). Conq's bonus to Berserk is worth more then it's AM effect for Warriors. The AM effect is only worthwhile if your starting with 3K and doing a quick KJ -> Upheaval -> KJ SC cause it's actually helpful for the WS's while being virtually useless for TP gain. That's you quoting yourself to try another personal attack per usual. Offline
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idk about cor, but for war i use the impulse set for SB and mistral. They dont have as sexy of a modifier as impulse does. Impulse is "probably" better off with niq/regal now that I look at it again. I dont use impulse too often.
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Asura.Saevel said: » Spaitin said: » Was playing with a r15 conqueror war the other day. They geared their tp set with as much sTP as possible. I think we have been sleeping on that weapon. You can get a legit 3 hit build with an 80%+ chance of a MA proccing. It is actually super strong. Glad to see that weapon isn't worthless. Sam/Fighters roll was used and had 3k TP before every fight. Chango can already get that but with over 100% MA proc (2.10 average attacks per round). Conq's bonus to Berserk is worth more then it's AM effect for Warriors. The AM effect is only worthwhile if your starting with 3K and doing a quick KJ -> Upheaval -> KJ SC cause it's actually helpful for the WS's while being virtually useless for TP gain. Not quite. i am surprised you didnt go back and read it. just quoted funny the first time. You dont recognize your own responses? It is on page 148 if you feel like deleting it. so in your last two posts you have been incorrect on how I am attacking you and incorrect on what I mean by xhit. Simon understood it immediately. You are big on personal attacks, if they offend you then i recommend toughening up or stop doing it yourself. you seem way to sensitive to have people insult you, but you tend to do it all the time. Funny combo. personal attacks as per usual? you are basically the only person worthy of personal attacks in this thread. Your post before this was some weird narcissistic way of inserting yourself into the conversation and try and speak for me (which you did wrong). To make things worse you weren't even right. I screen shotted too it if you want me to post it that way? Offline
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Asura.Saevel said: » Cause it makes his epeen bigger, harder, stronger and better then all of you mere peasants. Seriously that's a big issue in online communities because it obscures real strategies and inhibits team growth with a giant penis sign masquerading as advice. |
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