The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide

Kannagi does not complete with Heishi in almost any circumstance. If you're attack capped, Ten is going to wreck Hi. It's 5 fTP that can sometimes crit versus 9.75~15.5 fTP (assuming you have Moonshade). If you're not attack capped, why are you even talking about Ten? Use Shun. It's more fTP than Hi and +75%~200% attack. Heishi also helps hybrid weaponskills, if you're using those. The mods on Hi are also the worst of all of the physical WS NIN has access to. AM3 is also very minute. It only applies to your mainhand, and your white damage is a very small fraction of your overall DPS (about 1/5). The Store TP +10 on Heishi is probably comparable to this.

ok I'll try to make this last question on topic:

this is my shun set:

I am wondering if the sup 3 set is all that much better than what I have. I am not sure where the crit hit rate falls into shun if it can even crit. I am guessing yes as its dex based but that's just an assumption. If I have something in there that is out of place don't hesitate to say lol.

Shun cannot crit. Its dex based, but tp modifies its attack. It has no critical properties. The DEX+Acc+TA from Su3 is what will make it decent. I don't have HQ su3, but you could probably get by with nq if you prefer to see the improvement.


You gotta stop looking at things in huge chunks. Gear progression is very small in terms of improvement. If it adds even 100 more damage overall, its a "better" set. What that cost vs dmg ratio is worth, only you can decide.

IMO, on a job like NIN, it can use all the help it can get. So I would view an "improvement" as an "improvement" and not as "its not all that much better".

I try to look at things like that but like the sup3, the 4 pieces total $148mil on my server. That for a jump in like less than 1% hurts my heart haha.

And how can you say you compared both when, AFAIK, you don't have a Kannagi ;) LOL I'm totally not doing the "no you" argument here though - don't worry! We both have a pretty decent understanding of the tools and benefits of weapons, I think it's reasonable that we can talk intelligently about this anyway without either player having both items.

When I say I have some practical experience comparing, I know it's super flawed to just compare to another person, but I've definitely seen my Kannagi with same buffs/target compared to other competent Ninjas using Heishi. In, say, Intense N-D Ambuscade with sorta-OK buffs. So there's at least some real world insight. And I know for a fact that in situations where you say Kikoku compares favorably to a Heishi, my Kannagi beats my Kikoku in real experience.


Why can't Innin be active 100% of the time? The recast is shorter than the JA duration, so there's no good reason it can't be.

As for enmity, with Innin/Yain, even August holds hate off me fine on ilevel content (different story for stuff that uses old enmity system, like high tiers) - and that's going all out with pretty high end gear. If you have a competent real player PLD or RUN, this should be a non-issue unless there's just some unusual reason that you can't position yourself behind a mob, or a fight with crazy hate reset.


Heishi is definitely the "easier" to use weapon due to not having to deal with aftermath, no debate there. That's one of its highlights, IMHO.

30% is a crazy low assumption for Empy AM though - no good empy user would allow it to be that low. Once you get first AM3 up, it should nearly always be up with maybe a few seconds delay to reapply. NIN also has some tricks to help gain TP very fast to minimize this "wasted" time - Sange is the big one (much like other jobs have tools of the trade for quickly gaining TP for AM - RNG Barrage, SAM Meditate, etc.). Also worth noting that when fights allow you to have TP before pop, this is much less of an issue since you can start with 3000tp. There is also some loss from not WSing and having to rebuild 3000tp to reapply AM3, even if you time it well and do the build to 3000 with most of that coming while AM is still up - that's a gap between spreadsheet values and reality.


You're overlooking that during the "over TP" phase, that is a huge boost to empy. All of those excess hits have the potential of high value triple damage procs (including tripled crits). This is the reason that if you're ever in a fight with a lengthy amnesia, you can actually watch the real time parse and see empy weapons with AM active start climbing in DPS percentage.

Over the course of a fight, that's potentially several WS worth of additional damage during the "over TP" hits - likely enough to outweigh the extra damage TP scaling on WS from another weapon/WS (and you're still getting something from TP scaling with Hi in higher WS crit rate). It's enough of an advantage for empy that you're also probably making up some of the "real world" difference of not having AM active all the time while building 3000tp.


Yeah, I'm not disagreeing with you here. I think I was pretty clear in multiple posts that I also wouldn't really recommend that most people who already have a Heishi need either Kannagi or Kikoku. Kannagi in particular can have the edge on Heishi in a non-trivial amount of situations, but it's not as if either one blows the other away on a regular basis.

On the flip side, if you don't have Heishi and it's more feasible for you to go make an Empy, you're also not going to fall far behind by "only" having a Kannagi, and in fact sometimes you'll have better DPS. That might cause people to prioritize a Heishi less - like for me, I think I'd gain more overall finishing up a Lionheart for my RUN (opening up a whole different offensive option than any existing weapon) or a Chango for my WAR than I would for the marginal increase in NIN damage by having Heishi available for the situations where it is best (when I know that even in those situations, I have the second best weapon).


Man, I WISH my NIN always had Frailty/Fury/Samurai/Chaos/Honor/Victory/Minuete/Madrigal! I don't find that to be my actual experience, and in these kinds of optimized highly buffed DD parties, I think most people are bringing jobs that aren't NIN for one of the two slots for DD/tank.

Realistically, NIN tends to be used in situations or parties where you probably aren't getting all of that, so it becomes more relevant to think about lower buffs.


So like... here's a real world example from this page of a NIN in a buff situation where Kannagi would beat the other alternatives.

BTW, Slore - NQ Kendatsuba legs are quite all right as a high acc TP choice. Obviously the HQ are a little better, but if you need acc that something like Samnuha can't provide, NQ Su3 is great.

Buy the NQ and wait for the price to drop then.

Should not forget that Innin decays, so you're not really getting the full use out of that 30% crit rate all of the time. Also, if you happen to cap hate, as Saevel pointed out, eventually you will turn the monster and the bonus doesn't apply until tank regains hate. I have been in a high-buffed scenario on NIN where I did strip hate from the tank several times (was an Omen boss), but that's anecdotal. I would agree that I don't really get to benefit from Innin 100% of the time when I use it, since it's position based. Just another reason why they need to remove that property


This is very true and I agree. More often than not (unless im in lowman or form my own group and put myself with the buffers), my NIN is on the outside of "good" buffs and is mostly getting songs/haste2 at most.

I've asked Santa for this for Christmas. :)

Oh, one more thing on the Kannagi stuff...


These are very good points.


This is just not right. Even for Ten with very high buffs, it sounds unrealistic for NIN to be hitting more than roughly a 30/70 split of white damage/WS damage (and that's high end buffs, which skew things more toward WS damage)

For Empy, it's a totally different story and becomes practically a 50/50 (or maybe 45/55) split between white damage and WS damage. That's kinda the point, and why Kannagi intrigued me in the first place (after playing around with Armageddon for a while and becoming a convert to the church of AM3 ranged crits). We all know Hi isn't the best damage WS, but (a) NIN gets a lot more out of white damage than most jobs (only MNK is similar I think), and (b) Hi isn't AS BAD as it used to be due to more modern gear, making it less of a liability.


IDK about that particular tank or fight, since most of the Omen bosses have some interesting hate mechanics (hate resets, long terrors, buncha enfeebles that might not be removed on the tank fast and causing them to lag on using their hate tools, Fu weirdness due to buff absorption, etc.)...

But it's seriously not that hard to stay on the opposite of a good tank and almost never pull hate on NIN. Even when you do, it's likely a few seconds of your Innin time wasted until the tank gets it back. Not that big of a problem in the grand scheme of things.

The harder part than YOU pulling hate is OTHER DDs who aren't NIN pulling hate and causing the mob to spin. That's a very real concern, and one of many reasons that the Innin positional requirement has got to go!

The last part is essentially the same thing as the Ninja pulling hate, as far as Innin is concerned. Point is, mob turns, bonus negated, regardless of which weapon you're using or who pulls the hate. Kannagi users just happens to suffer more from this if it happens. Don't think it's 50% like Saevel mentioned but a simulator can't recreate that scenario, so his point was it cannot reasonably be maintained full time. And that's not even factoring in the decay

Right, and that's annoying and a definite downside for Innin. But it's a situational thing, depends on whether you actually do have other DDs pulling hate, and where they're positioned, and whether you can move behind the mob. It shouldn't be YOU pulling hate often as a NIN, so you should be able to move - but it's definitely an irritating obstacle.

Innin decay is a thing, but even so, you can maintain 19~30 crit rate nearly fulltime (when you can be behind the mob) - still a huge benefit. It's only 1 point of decay every 15 seconds, so from the starting point of Crit Rate +30%, it will gradually drop down to 19 after 155 seconds, and then at 180 seconds you can use the JA again to refresh it.

Metsu is Bestu

Many argue that Kannagi is great in situations that involve Amnesia. In those same situations, it is unlikely a player would be able to reapply Innin again every 180 seconds.
That Amnesia may or may not impact who has enmity at any given time, putting Innin gains further into question.
Additionally, situations that involve Terror or Stun or Paralyze will hurt a Kannagi more than the other weapons. All of those will waste opportunities to pull ahead during an AM3 period.

If so buff-starved that Hi is a contender, as has been said above, hopefully the NIN is beating on low level content and destroying it easily regardless of weapon.
If not, it would be a better use of resources to simply use a different weapon skill or to join a larger group to receive better buffs than to build a Kannagi.
I would be interested to see a discussion comparing Kannagi/whatever with capped Haste buffs vs Heishi/Kujaku +1 with concessions on Haste in favor of Attack buffs.
I definitely feel that the effort to misalign the stars so aggressively to help Kannagi could be used for greater effect by tweaking the buffs/gear surrounding a Heishi.

Ha ha ha ha ha, I'm borrowing this to go along with my "NIN is win."

Even Heishi/Hi is better than Heishi/Ten, in the first Scenario Capuchin described.

Granted it's still behind Kannagi/Hi.

Granted Ten sucks at zero buffs (Capuchin's scenario 1), you don't need "capped att" for it to be better than Hi.
You need a lot of attack sure but don't have to be capped.


I mean check the data I posted on the previous page.
Just Frailty, Minuet5 and Honor march are enough to bring Heishi/Ten above Kannagi/Hi.
No BoG, No EA, No Idris, No Bolster involved.
Probably less than that is necessary actually, if we adjust the formula with 30% ODT instead of 50%, take into account over TP round and also assume a certain amount of reduce uptime for Innin.

These are weird arguments that are sort of grasping at straws, when there are much clearer arguments for Heishi if you want to push for it: stronger Ten/Shun, better ability to use hybrid WS, no AM requirement.

But these points are questionable...

1) Innin lasts for 5 minutes. OK, you might not be able to reapply it exactly at 3min timer, but you can pop it whenever you're un-Amnesiaed and OMG you might have had to deal with "only" crit rate 17-18% for the additional 30 seconds or whatever before Amnesia wears. That still benefits empy more than any other weapon. On average, you're still getting a fairly consistent mid-20s% crit rate averaged over the duration of Innin. Amnesia is clearly a bigger hit to jobs/weapons relying on WS damage for a higher proportion of their overall DPS than it is to someone taking advantage of Empy aftermath.

You actually didn't mention that the more serious threat for an Empy user isn't losing the ability to do an early refresh of Innin for a few seconds, it's amnesia at the wrong time when AM is *down* and not being able to reapply it instantly.

2) The Terror/Stun/Para argument I don't really get either. Terror/Stun/Para hurt everyone fairly equally. If anything, the negative impact on WS frequency is potentially more of a harm to Heishi - slower to WS means less opportunities to pull away with higher damaging Ten/Shun, Heishi's bread and butter. It's a somewhat different harm to Kannagi from some number of less total procs during your 3min AM3 duration, but either weapon has a loss.


I'm not trying to say Heishi isn't great, it is. Just trying to note that Kannagi gets a little overlooked when it's often like a couple percentage difference in overall DPS, or - sometimes - a BETTER option.

Seems like there might be lots of reasons, but there has a bit of a weird resistance to even looking at Kannagi in a reasonable way. I don't know exactly what's causing this:
Did people just get used to Hi being kinda bad post-Abyssea? Are they just used to assuming (or actually running with) heavy buffs on their NINs? Do they have misconceptions about things like white damage/WS splits being higher in favor of WS than they really are? Is it partly down to spreadsheets being an imperfect model that weights things based on assumptions of perfect WS timing? Maybe a combination of all these things and more.

When we're running around in TP sets that can realistically have 35-45% crit rate (in addition to lots of DEX), plus Innin allowing you to have another 20-something crit the vast majority of the time, there is more value than a lot of people realize to (a) Ninja white damage in general, and (b) Empy AM3 triple damage procs.

Plus, not everyone has easy access to Aeonics or wants to prioritize katana. It's pretty apparent that if Heishi is NOT an option, Kannagi is the next best choice from a DPS perspective in the overwhelming number of situations (Kikoku CAN get some wins, but it's pretty rare). There's nothing wrong with doing some more up-to-date discussion about one of the top two NIN weapons, is there? Seems like people would rather just stick their fingers in their ears and yell "BLAH BLAH BLAH AEONIC ONLY NO OTHER DISCUSSION". That doesn't really help NIN overall, does it?

The 80/20 split is not an exaggeration. I think the highest ratio I've ever parsed is 23/77. Go parse some unity NMs or whatever if you're not convinced.

I have both Heishi and Kannagi and found myself pulling out Kannagi as I primarily play by myself. Have any of you made Umbra on Nin or is that not exclusive to Heishi(main)/Kannagi(offhand)?

The "use Empy vs Amnesia" line of thought has always been questionable. Arguing the value of full-timing a JA that diminishes over time regardless of anything else and is dependent on positioning is a few steps beyond questionable.

That most serious of threats is brought up and then unsuccessfully side-stepped when Kannagi defenders try to line up behind content that allows 3k prior to engaging. It could happen during the battle, as well, but, most assume a fight will be over by the time AM wears. In content like the new Dynamis, trying to maintain AM will slow DPS down.

As far as Terror/Stun/Paralysis, sure, they may proc equally across all weapons but they do not hurt them equally. If banking on catching up to a superior weapon during an AM3 phase, every swing not taken hurts Kannagi up to three times more than other options. Consider the example made earlier of being behind until Amnesia occurs preventing all from weapon skilling... Well, if that Kannagi is locked up due to Terror/Stun/Paralysis, it may never even catch up to the other options.

There is resistance to pro-Kannagi talk because few have seen evidence of and are therefore not ready to consider it the next best choice from a DPS perspective.
There is also resistance to the belief that an Aeonic could be out of reach, yet an individual might have enough supply (of gil or raw materials) to build an Empy. Even the less populated, back water servers are flush with groups capable of obtaining Aeonics--with or without SMNs.

I think there's a misunderstanding here!
When I said "both" I was referring to the question "did you parse or did you just use spreadsheet?" to which you answered "both" I think?
I don't think I've ever claimed to have been done both things, if I did it was clearly a mistake on my side for which I apologize but please believe me it was a typing error or me writing while thinkin bout somethin else °-°
I only ever tested Kannagi in spreadsheet and similar scenarios.
Sorry if that came out wrong ><
When I asked about parse vs Spreadsheet it wasn't because I was trying to pull out the "not u" argument, but because parses offer sometimes surprising results compared to spreadsheet, for many reasons. So I find them interesting but have none of them for NIN since I don't own a Kannagi.

I've parsed against other Kannagi owners of course but that's kinda irrelevant for what I was trying to say.


Reapplying it is a small dps loss (JA delay), granted it's only once every X minutes.
That's not the point anyway, it's more about monster turning.
In your scenario with August etc sure! Works perfectly, I've soloed stuff myself, August never lost hate even once.
But I don't really consider that a "real" application. C'mon, soloing stuff with trusts? Who cares, no?

If we're talking about more serious applications I'm sure you can reach even high uptimes of Innin but noway it's gonna be 100% up.



I agree but that's not what I was trying to say.
I more meant that AM3 is a DPS loss, excluding very specific situations.
AM1 can be refreshed more easily so I consider a very likely and realistic scenario to keep AM1 up.
Considering 50% is gonna created a scenario that's biased towards Kannagi/Hi in the Spreadsheet, is what I was trying to say.
(as I mentioned before, Kannagi/Hi still wins even with "only" AM1, in scenario1, but the difference is of course smaller)


You're making it a matter of usage over time, the Spreadsheet cannot measure these things.
As I said before to apply AM3 you need to "sacrifice" 2x WSs.
That will grant you AM3 for 180 seconds, which will require you "waste" 2 more WSs when time is about to expire, and probably a couple of seconds with AM down as you try to reapply it with 3k TP.
This a DPS loss, which is probably compensated by the additional melee damage granted by AM3, I don't know but it's not what I'm saying.
What I'm trying to say is that the spreadsheet does measures the pros of this (50% OTD, 100% of the time up) but it doesn't measure the amount of loss you need to give in to generate those pros (sacrificing 2+ WSs every 180 seconds).
So, again, this creates a bias towards Kannagi/Hi if we use a measurement instrument like Spreadsheet.

Not sure if I'm managing to convey through words what I wanted to say, getting late and my brain is slowly turning off lol



I thought AM could proc only once per round, and only on main weapon? That's how it works for H2H at least but maybe H2H is special.
It's not "all" anyway, because Daken procs and OH procs, to say the least, do not benefit from that of course. So <50% of hits max?

I think you're overestimating AM relevance, especially on a 1h weapon, guess it's different on 2H maybe.
The damage these days is greatly spread in favor of WS damage. Those Triple Damage melee hits are surely hot but, I dunno, I think you're overestimating them.


Of course! And this is exactely one of the (few) situations where Kannagi clearly outpowers other weapons.
I never said there are none, just that they're a minority of situations.


Like Snapps said, I think they're pretty close to each other regardless.


No I don't agree here, unless you're on a very unlucky small server, maybe?
With the currently ongoing prices with the amount of gil a full Kannagi costs, you can probably pay a merc group to get you a Heishi.
So, imo, you really need to be *wanting* a Kannagi.
The Excuse "I can farm mats solo!" is not a valid excuse imho, because you could be selling those mats and use the gil to pay a merc group.


With this said, sorry people if I gave the impression I have a personal hate on Kannagi, I actually like the weapon itself!

Innin is only active when your behind the monster, the buff icon may be present but like Sneak Attack it only applies if your facing the monsters *** end. If you suck *** then yes Innin can be contributing to your damage 100% of the time, if you are mediocre or better then you should be pulling hate, and when that happens Innin's usefulness vanish's. The more amazing you are, which all DD's should aspire to, the less Innin contributes. Saying a trust tank holds hate off you isn't a good thing, it's like saying you almost made the finals in your towns' Special Olympics. It means you dealt so little damage that a half brain head minimally geared derpy tank still held hate.




So you admit to only using NIN to do ***nobody really cares about. Nobody cares about the short-bus party, nobody cares about soloing stuff or messing with your friends, it's fun but not really relative to the greater discussion about melee.

That buff setup is STANDARD for all melee orientated content. It's 2.5~2.8 DD's, cause COR is a beast now, with aoe heals, capped haste, capped attack, capped accuracy and a giant boost to WS frequency. That is the bar to which you gear yourself around, and that setup is stupid easy to get with minimal effort.

900 Skill Dunna GEO, these now grow on tree's, you can't walk through town without tripping over a few of them.

COR with +5 ring, these also grow on tree's, everyone using them to "gear their real job"

BRD, every other BRD on my server has HM, on a less populated server it may be rarer but you can still get by. Four songs just means VM + AM + Mad II + Marcato Min V. Hell I recently had a three song BRD and we made that work.

WHM, more common then BRD, less then COR and GEO's. Least gear dependent job in the game, unfortunately it has a high skill curve so newly returned players frequently struggle.

So tell everyone how getting basic support is difficult again.

So the highest ratio you've ever parsed wasn't quite to 80/20, and that likely means it was in a pretty ideal buff scenario and more often it's some degree lower. And that's definitely going to be a Heishi-specific split - ANY other weapon will be less weighted toward WS, and especially Empy where AM3 skews things much further toward white damage. I regularly see splits approaching 50/50, and rarely see anything above 60/40 on Kannagi. It's a different approach.

Since people always love to complain about KATANA WS TOO WEAK, Ninja is a job that has some reasonable chance of going harder after white damage - where Empy shines.


Really, it's questionable to maintain Innin and the roughly mid-20s% crit rate (accounting for decay averaged over time by simple using Innin when it's up), enmity down, and accuracy?

Every DD NIN should be fulltiming Innin ANYWAY, regardless of weapon, and trying to be in position (which is less difficult than people are making it out to be). Otherwise, you're kind of a gimp DD anyway, and you might as well be on a different job unless you're only on NIN for shadows or something.

Just so happens that, while Innin is a gain for everyone, it's more of a gain for Kannagi. When you're already doing the thing that all DD NIN should be doing regardless of weapon.


Nobody is really pushing this hard, you're making up these "Kannagi defenders" arguments. I noted that for content that allows for TP before pop, getting intial AM3 is not a major concern. I also noted you'll eventually need to reapply AM3 on longer fights or built initial 3k TP in some fights - and that's some DPS loss for empy, which can be somewhat mitigated by Sange for a quick TP burst and good timing to redo 3000tp WS to reapply. Nothing very controversial there.

For your Dynamis example:

You're also talking about mobs that die quite fast and also cause some "lost" DPS for a weapon more focused on WS damage (like Heishi) when you overkill a mob. But whatever, neither the wasted WS damage from Aeonic or maintaining AM3 on Empy are really a serious issue for either weapon when we're talking about farming relatively quick-dying Divergence mobs. Hell, I often intentionally save 3000tp on ANY weapon for something like fighting a Ninja mob and holding TP to ~50% for a quick kill to avoid it using Mijin.

For Dyna NMs, Empy also has little issue since you can generally ride a single AM3 on an NM and prepare for it by having 3000tp in advance with minimal impact to the run (OMG the a fodder mob before the NM pull died 3 seconds slower because I held TP...). This is frankly not a significant issue, and in fact it's probably better for most any Dynamis DD to build some TP on fodder and be ready for the harder NM.

Situational, but Kannagi/Hi can also have some advantage from a SC perspective (easy Hi>Hi darkness self SCs are nice in perma double darkness weather) - hell, even Heishi users might want a Hi>Hi in that scenario (for less damage than a Kannagi Hi). To be fair, Ten also chains well with many other DDs to make darkness - so this may be somewhat of a non-issue if you are coordinating well with someone else using CdC/Rudra/Fudo/etc.


Are you serious? Is there really any legitimate debate that if you remove Heishi from the equation, Kannagi is clearly the DPS winner in the vast majority of scenarios? There is no reasonable resistance to that position. Kikoku wins are few and far between (though it's still a solid weapon, and cheaper to make).


Anyone can solo a RME weapon. Aeonics require a skilled group. It's not that inconceivable that people might have an easier time making an empy. Or, just that people might not prioritize Heishi even if they do have the ability to get Aeonics - perfectly reasonable possibility.

I'm not going to get into mercs other than to note that there are servers without widespread Aeonic mercs, and there are plenty of people who aren't interesting in using that kind of service anyway.

How the hell is anyone doing reasonable damage not pulling hate? I pull hate on every DD job without even trying, it's just how CE/VE scales with damage. 50K WS's pull hate, hell even lots of 20K WS's will pull just not as fast. Doesn't matter how godly any tank is, any competent melee is going to launch themselves right past the tank and into co-tank territory, it's why -DT sets exist. Now you probably won't keep it the entire time, monster taking swings at you and doing damage with TP moves will eventually lower your CE (though not your VE) to the point that the tank, if you even have one, will catch back up. But then moments later you WS again and launch right past the previous mark.

It's the dance all melee's do, do damage, get hate, get hit, lose hate, do damage, get hate, and repeat. The only way to avoid that is to ... not do much damage. Now NIN's -25~35 enmity means they take a little longer to hit that threshold, but they will hit it and once their there it won't go away. Ninja doesn't have any abilities, outside of Mijin Gakure, to dump their enmity.

Innin's nice and all, but lets not kid ourselves. It's best use is when you are co-tanking with another DD and can orientate yourselves on either side of the mob. At that point the more bad *** the other DD is, the more potential NIN can get out of Innin.

Had something like 90/10 or 95/5 the other night, but I was breaking the game on purpose.


Who the F*ck would say that... Katana WS's most certainly are not weak. They aren't as easily exploitable as Resolution and Stardiver, but I've successfully exploited several of them already. Shun is powerful but doesn't scale with TP so it needs to be spammed. Ten is ridiculously powerful but has two lowest mods that makes it difficult to jack the BDMG up on. Ku is pretty powerful but lands in the same category as Shun and has lower mods. Hi is situationally good, it's basically cram as much WSD and CHD/CHR and suffer through the shitty mod.

And then we have the holy triumvirate of Tekki, To and Chi, which employed correctly destroy every other Katana WS and most other WS's in the game. How often do you deal 50k WS's? The other night I was doing that damn near every WS, in fact 50K was near the low end for Chi with the higher side being around 70K.

You guys have the tools, just use them.

If you're seeing splits that low than it speaks volumes about how bad Kannagi truly is. Ideal buffs don't favor Heishi either. Blade: Shun is my go-to when attack is not capped because it performs so much better than Ten in those circumstances.

I get it, you have a Kannagi and you like it. Play the game however you want. Nobody really cares. It's not a competitive weapon though.

K, the only way Ninja is useful for anything but fodder is Heishi with 3 buffers. Got it.

Nobody cares about you soloing random NM's. Players don't want to spend millions of gil just to "solo harder". Ninja is a melee, any group that use's melees quickly realizes that it's a waste of time not to buff them. That is FFXI, if you don't like then you can go solo in another less-buff orientated game like FFXIV. This is also why both COR and occasionally BRD sport DPS sets. With the Magian TP +1000 GUN COR can do silly Savage Blades and combined with a BRD will count for an entire DD by themselves. GEO's now should be playing as a mini-RDM and WHM's as usual are the babysitter for the whole group.

You know how you make four people fight better then six? Bring a BRD.

Buffs are good, everyone knows that. It's also not like you can't successfully clear most content in the game with less than your perfect 6 person Tank/DD DD WHM COR BRD GEO party (where, let's be honest, NIN is by design never going to match up to other heavier DDs for those two flexible slots).

I'm sorry I failed to realize there is no room for using a melee in situations that fall between that ideal party setup and soloing random NMs. Glad that everyone here will now be a little more enlightened and will not leave their mog house on NIN unless they're going to join a party with such a setup.

This place is so toxic sometimes... Taking a break, see you guys later.

Nobody cares about random ***, that's what people are trying to tell you. You can go NIN/SAM with a Beryllium Tachi and actually do decent and clear content under CL135 without much difficulty. Gekko, Koki, Kagero and Jinpu can be plenty strong.

And nobody would care that you did that.

In situations where people actually care, you will have appropriate buffs. Anything else would be a ***show worthy of youtube hall of shame. Hey guys look at us fail and take 10 minutes to clear 2 minute content cause we wanted to be special and refused to bring appropriate buffs. *golf clap* the rest of the game community will just grab the various NQ support jobs laying around. I mean your acting like NQ support are rare and mysterious instead of a dime a dozen.

General rule is one support for every melee, you have 3 melee you need 3 support. A tank counts as a melee and a COR counts as half and half. Capped haste is the absolute minimum that's acceptable, otherwise your wasting everyone's time. Then it's attack buffs, and hopefully Store TP if you can get it.