A Scholar's Education (Guide)

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A Scholar's Education (Guide)
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By Antisense 2014-03-26 14:02:02
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Sample damage calculations on mob with dINT >> 100 (e.g. Tiny Mandragora)

Umbani Boots (MAB+20, MDMG+10, INT+22, but INT offers nothing for damage in this case):
Hagondes Sabots +1 (MAB+30, INT+17):
Hagondes Sabots +1 with MAB+30 is better across the board. However:

Thunder V damage is better by 6907 - 6778 = 129 damage
Stone V damage is better by 6710 - 6590 = 120 damage

Thunder I damage is better by 1402 - 1393 = 9 damage
Stone I damage is better by 1319 - 1312 = 7 damage

Helix damage is better by 1615 - 1603 = 12 damage.

These gaps close and the direction even reverses (for low-tier spells) with increasing mob INT.

I would just go with Umbani if you haven't already gotten a good augment on Hagondes. With NQ stones you are limited to 19 MAB at most, I think, so you would have to spam +1 or +2 stones to get 20 MAB or above AND get lucky with respect to the large pool of potential augments for Hagondes, or sink a ***-ton of gil for a highly questionable "investment." (Who thinks the equivalent of Umbani for the other gear slots won't show up in later updates?)


Please spare irrelevant comments about obi and Twilight cape. This is just an example. (Also I meant to re-label Wizzan Grip to Zuuxowu Grip but I had already uploaded the SS)
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By Quetzalcoatl.Waffless 2014-03-26 14:45:45
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Pantafernando said: »
Quetzalcoatl.Waffless said: »
Pantafernando said: »
Quetzalcoatl.Waffless said: »
If I made a gimp stun sch to take the place of a real one(instead of watiing 2-4 hours for one) could I just full time a stun set and still have decent stun recast times?

If you have enough macc and experience, you can deal with recast selecting just lahar to stun (for tojil), guillotine (for shark) and aphoteosis (for bee) and slowga, meteor. This way you wont ran out alacrity, but will put a heavy burden to whm. Tabula rasa if you ran out alacrity.

Also, players must be able to survive one or 2 of those moves to go off. Dont really feel guilty if you lose a run because of stunning. If losing a move result in wipe, that mean the DDs/healers werent at the level to require a perfect stun also, so NO RIGHT to blame the SCH.

Would I need the Apjamas staff? By gimp I don't mean strictly AH gear, I would get most of the gear listed for the stun set except things like meebles neck ect.

It was extensivelly discussed apajamas ii or macc staff, and seems like the macc staff are the way to go, because the gap on macc is a lot compared to any ilv staff (apajamas is 70 macc and most staves will gives 180+macc) for a recast reduction, that most set really dont require. Sch nowaday have access to a shitload of fast cast and haste gear, added with marches and haste, they seems to be hitting the 8 secs that is around the time between mega boss tp moves without alacrity, so any fast cast wont help. But macc and recast are 2 things that will affect more or less your work depending your style and/or yours dds. Supose your dds are top notch, that can finish all mega boss in 5- mins. In this case, you will stun everything with alacrity, and wont hit the resist. But if your dds are too slow, you will both ran put alacrity and/or hit stun wall. In the case of stun wall, the extra macc could give you some extra mins, thats why most prefer the macc staves than apajamas ii. Also worth mention in lowman situation you wont have geo magic, but also theoretically nms wont do tp move so fast due to low rate of tp generated, so even more reason to go to macc way. Lehbraigh +2 augmented with fast cast, though, could reduce a bit the gap to apajamas ii and still have respectable macc.

I'd probably use Venabulum. Also, besides morta body or vanir what would be a good choice?
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By Pantafernando 2014-03-26 14:57:20
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Quetzalcoatl.Waffless said: »
Pantafernando said: »
Quetzalcoatl.Waffless said: »
Pantafernando said: »
Quetzalcoatl.Waffless said: »
If I made a gimp stun sch to take the place of a real one(instead of watiing 2-4 hours for one) could I just full time a stun set and still have decent stun recast times?

If you have enough macc and experience, you can deal with recast selecting just lahar to stun (for tojil), guillotine (for shark) and aphoteosis (for bee) and slowga, meteor. This way you wont ran out alacrity, but will put a heavy burden to whm. Tabula rasa if you ran out alacrity.

Also, players must be able to survive one or 2 of those moves to go off. Dont really feel guilty if you lose a run because of stunning. If losing a move result in wipe, that mean the DDs/healers werent at the level to require a perfect stun also, so NO RIGHT to blame the SCH.

Would I need the Apjamas staff? By gimp I don't mean strictly AH gear, I would get most of the gear listed for the stun set except things like meebles neck ect.

It was extensivelly discussed apajamas ii or macc staff, and seems like the macc staff are the way to go, because the gap on macc is a lot compared to any ilv staff (apajamas is 70 macc and most staves will gives 180+macc) for a recast reduction, that most set really dont require. Sch nowaday have access to a shitload of fast cast and haste gear, added with marches and haste, they seems to be hitting the 8 secs that is around the time between mega boss tp moves without alacrity, so any fast cast wont help. But macc and recast are 2 things that will affect more or less your work depending your style and/or yours dds. Supose your dds are top notch, that can finish all mega boss in 5- mins. In this case, you will stun everything with alacrity, and wont hit the resist. But if your dds are too slow, you will both ran put alacrity and/or hit stun wall. In the case of stun wall, the extra macc could give you some extra mins, thats why most prefer the macc staves than apajamas ii. Also worth mention in lowman situation you wont have geo magic, but also theoretically nms wont do tp move so fast due to low rate of tp generated, so even more reason to go to macc way. Lehbraigh +2 augmented with fast cast, though, could reduce a bit the gap to apajamas ii and still have respectable macc.

I'd probably use Venabulum. Also, besides morta body or vanir what would be a good choice?

I use Hagondes with macc augments.
 
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By 2014-03-26 15:14:40
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By Quetzalcoatl.Waffless 2014-03-26 15:16:27
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Hmm, Artsieq body path B seems sexy for stun too, 3 haste and 30 macc.

Maybe not, saw the path on the last page and it is for the hat.

Edit 2, just saw this on BG:

Artiseq:

Path A: Static on all 5: MP +30 MAB +20 Int +7
Path B Static on all 5: MP +30 MAC +20 MND +7
Path C: Head Posted a little further up on this page MAC +25 Magic Evas +10 MDT -5%
Path C: Body Best Guesses from lower rank is finish at MP +60 MAC +12-15 MAB 12-15
Path C Legs: MAB 25 Magic Evas 10 PDT -5%

Ok so I have a preliminary stun setup in mind, please point out if I"m completely wrong somewhere.

Head: Artiseq (C)
Body: Artiseq (B)
Hands: Hagondes nq (have mab augs)
Legs: Artiseq (B)
Feet: ?
Rings: Sangoma/Mediator
Waist: Goading
Earrings: Lifestorm/Psystorm
Back: Swith
Weapon: Venabulum

As you can see I'm not sure about feet. I can buy the 8 macc earring but not sure what would pair with it. Also, I could redo hagondes hands and get macc aug on it if it is necessary.
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By Antisense 2014-03-26 16:40:24
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Seraph.Legendia said: »
Antisense where did you come up with that gearset? It seems random in some slots

Inventory + I don't gear for dINT >> 100 for low-tier nukes (although if nuking I may find myself dINT >> 150 the vast majority of the time even on post-Adoulin 'content').

For dINT < 100 and low-tier nukes there is the theoretical possibility that INT may contribute magic accuracy along with damage.

  • Waist: obi first; if not obi, it's a wash between Maniacus Sash (which I don't have) and Cognition Belt with high levels of MAB, but MAB does not provide magic accuracy

  • Back: I don't use Bookworm's Cape on BLM (shared Toro Cape between SCH and BLM, if Twilight cape doesn't apply)

  • Rings: How many have MAB or magic damage? (1; Strendu is inventory +1 for dINT >> 100 cases)

  • Earrings: How many have magic damage? (1; I don't have Crematio Earring)

  • Hands: Yaoyotl is shared with WHM although I could easily substitute newer gear (Otomi or Delve 2.0) and I didn't want to get on the random augmentation treadmill for this slot



Quetzalcoatl.Waffless said: »
Head: Artiseq (C)
Body: Artiseq (B)
Hands: Hagondes nq (have mab augs)
Legs: Artiseq (B)
Feet: ?
Rings: Sangoma/Mediator
Waist: Goading
Earrings: Lifestorm/Psystorm
Back: Swith
Weapon: Venabulum

As you can see I'm not sure about feet. I can buy the 8 macc earring but not sure what would pair with it. Also, I could redo hagondes hands and get macc aug on it if it is necessary.

Hands: Artsieq Cuffs - easy magic accuracy +25 (Type B path) and can be used on WHM and BRD (if you have those jobs)
Head: Nahtirah Hat - where you can get relatively large amounts of recast reduction, take it over magic accuracy. Nahtirah Hat is a compromise between recast and macc considerations. I personally use reforged head as it offers more efficient recast reduction.
Feet:Relic feet are Alacrity only; without strat use reforged artifact feet are better at recast reduction
Earrings: You answered your own question
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By Pantafernando 2014-03-26 16:55:56
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Quetzalcoatl.Waffless said: »
Hmm, Artsieq body path B seems sexy for stun too, 3 haste and 30 macc.

Maybe not, saw the path on the last page and it is for the hat.

Edit 2, just saw this on BG:

Artiseq:

Path A: Static on all 5: MP +30 MAB +20 Int +7
Path B Static on all 5: MP +30 MAC +20 MND +7
Path C: Head Posted a little further up on this page MAC +25 Magic Evas +10 MDT -5%
Path C: Body Best Guesses from lower rank is finish at MP +60 MAC +12-15 MAB 12-15
Path C Legs: MAB 25 Magic Evas 10 PDT -5%

Ok so I have a preliminary stun setup in mind, please point out if I"m completely wrong somewhere.

Head: Artiseq (C)
Body: Artiseq (B)
Hands: Hagondes nq (have mab augs)
Legs: Artiseq (B)
Feet: ?
Rings: Sangoma/Mediator
Waist: Goading
Earrings: Lifestorm/Psystorm
Back: Swith
Weapon: Venabulum

As you can see I'm not sure about feet. I can buy the 8 macc earring but not sure what would pair with it. Also, I could redo hagondes hands and get macc aug on it if it is necessary.

Feets are reforged relic, even the 109 version, no better piece other than that.
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By Quetzalcoatl.Waffless 2014-03-26 17:04:13
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Ok, thanks guys. What about merits? Right now I have:

T1
5/5 Helix magic acc/att
5/5 Sublimation

T2

5/5 Enlightenment (needed to cap enhancing way back with relic +2 body aug)

5/5 Stormsurge
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By Pantafernando 2014-03-26 17:38:51
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Quetzalcoatl.Waffless said: »
Ok, thanks guys. What about merits? Right now I have:

T1
5/5 Helix magic acc/att
5/5 Sublimation

T2

5/5 Enlightenment (needed to cap enhancing way back with relic +2 body aug)

5/5 Stormsurge

They are saying that focalization can give some extra stuns when the fight take so long, i guess its a good idea, gonna put some merits in that. I had merits in enlghtment and stormsurge, guess stormsurge can still be keep as an extra buff for party. DEX is always welcomed.
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By Asura.Chefm 2014-03-27 00:36:43
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Airwave said: »
Ok thanks for the fast replys guys.

So Hagondes Coat +1 with a Augment of MAB+20/21 or high beats Artsieq Jubbah?

And I'm still not clear about the Hagondes +1 feet though. Was the answer that even with a amazing MAB augment on Hagondes +1 feet even if they did pull ahead of Umbani Boots it wouldn't be by much? So not really worth /tossing a lot of +2 stones at those probably huh?

Cerberus.Shadowmeld said: »
I forgot to factor in the extra int on Umbani, you are correct in that regard that I didn't factor that value in. It only changes the outcome though on T5 nukes by 1 to 2 mab.

Assuming really good gear all around and a dINT of 100, base damage for a Stone V is 1200. Assuming as well that the other magic damage gear you are using is hag pants and skirmish staff, you have a base damage of 1425. Lets also assume that you have 100 MAB without your feet slot. Base damage for your nuke is going to be 2854.

Umbani feet give you a nuke value of 3205 where an augmented Hag feet give you 3210 at +25 mab on the augment. If you have a perfect augment, Hag feet get you all the way to 3267, that is +57 damage over Umbani.

If you are at 200 base MAB before feet. Hag feet still win at at least +27 mab, so we are getting closer to having Umbani win, but you would still need significantly more base mab before that is the case.

My set isn't that great to tell the truth, I probably don't quite hit the dINT 100+, which it is more favorable to Umbani (being under dINT 100) too due to how INT calculates to magic damage. Truth to tell, if you don't have money to have killer augs on the rest of your hag pieces, Umbani is better. But if you have great augs on your other stuff, and have anything over +25 on your Hag feet, you probably don't need Umbani

So Umbani Boots is better if you have them and don't want to spend the money aug Hag ft but

Edit: So to save invt +1~
Stun:
ItemSet 321504
arts body path C
arts legs path B

Nuke:
ItemSet 37666
same aug
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By Quetzalcoatl.Taberifx 2014-03-27 01:33:06
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still advocating recast reduction priority:
ItemSet 319889
magic acc earrings/rings might have been nice but dont think they're worth it anymore for current content
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By SeekerStar 2014-03-30 13:18:51
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Pantafernando said: »
Quetzalcoatl.Waffless said: »
If I made a gimp stun sch to take the place of a real one(instead of watiing 2-4 hours for one) could I just full time a stun set and still have decent stun recast times?

If you have enough macc and experience, you can deal with recast selecting just lahar to stun (for tojil), guillotine (for shark) and aphoteosis (for bee) and slowga, meteor. This way you wont ran out alacrity, but will put a heavy burden to whm. Tabula rasa if you ran out alacrity.

Also, players must be able to survive one or 2 of those moves to go off. Dont really feel guilty if you lose a run because of stunning. If losing a move result in wipe, that mean the DDs/healers werent at the level to require a perfect stun also, so NO RIGHT to blame the SCH.

I'm telling my ls this now. I am so sick of hearing "It's the SCH's fault!"
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By Quetzalcoatl.Taberifx 2014-03-30 14:20:39
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if you can get 11sec recast by magical haste w/e then youre fine on tojil to stun everything besides spells

101/105 of our four losses only 1 was dps the other 3 was because the sch wasnt hasted
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By SeekerStar 2014-03-30 14:31:05
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Quetzalcoatl.Taberifx said: »
if you can get 11sec recast by magical haste w/e then youre fine on tojil to stun everything besides spells

101/105 of our four losses only 1 was dps the other 3 was because the sch wasnt hasted


Can I ask exactly how this is accomplished? If I remember right, using my normal stun gear setup, I don't get that low without using alacrity.

Of course with storm/alacrity/double march the recast is disgustingly low....but you really don't want to run out of strats and have stun down when Toejam barfs a Lahar on your dds.

Edit: also screaming for haste and not getting it sucks. I used to be the stunsch's hastebitch on RDM, those six min hastes being quite useful.
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By Quetzalcoatl.Taberifx 2014-03-30 14:34:43
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are you dual stun or solo?
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By Pantafernando 2014-03-30 14:42:44
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SeekerStar said: »
Pantafernando said: »
Quetzalcoatl.Waffless said: »
If I made a gimp stun sch to take the place of a real one(instead of watiing 2-4 hours for one) could I just full time a stun set and still have decent stun recast times?

If you have enough macc and experience, you can deal with recast selecting just lahar to stun (for tojil), guillotine (for shark) and aphoteosis (for bee) and slowga, meteor. This way you wont ran out alacrity, but will put a heavy burden to whm. Tabula rasa if you ran out alacrity.

Also, players must be able to survive one or 2 of those moves to go off. Dont really feel guilty if you lose a run because of stunning. If losing a move result in wipe, that mean the DDs/healers werent at the level to require a perfect stun also, so NO RIGHT to blame the SCH.

I'm telling my ls this now. I am so sick of hearing "It's the SCH's fault!"

Back when I was still learning and still running tojil runs everyday, I can clearly say all the reasons I failed so much. First, of course, as a person learning, some stuns normally missed at pull, generally the most critical moment, because you arent positioned and you dont know where damn dds will zerg the nm. Sometimes they are so dumb that they zerg right at the entrance, near to all adds and also, near one zone where normally is more sucetible to lags, after all, in a short space, there are 18 players, NM and 5+ mobs wandering. Just compare how hard is to walk in the guidestone in port jeuno, and you will see its not the smartest idea fighting near to the main room, still, dds dont really care and just zerg where there will be a damn lag and you will lose a stun.

Also, sometimes tojil decide to cast a troublesome spell like sleep or breakga when hes outside stun range, resulting another critical moment that could be avoided with a silence pull.

I can say, due to those situations, plus acumulated stress as the fight last longer than 10 mins, and more likely you will miss a stun. So i can admit 50% of the fails were due to those mistakes when I was still learning, and could not alert the members about those problems. Add this I was always leader and stun sch, and trying to type an order between tp moves also contribuited, and a lot, to misses, also to add more stress as the fight normally lasted longer.

But the others 50% i dont assume, i will let it to dds. When I had do a good job, good pull, good sequence of stuns, stupid dds insisted to enter stun wall when tojil still in first 25%. Yeah, it was almost rule those days, or fail stuns, or *** barrier of 25% that never ended, even with 10 mins fight, when tojil start resisting stuns, so naturally you wont land any stun starting that point, then someone stupid will say "No stuns?", you will fail, and still be blamed...
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By Antisense 2014-03-30 16:43:27
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I don't care if I'm blamed for missing a Batholithic Shell. I can't be blamed however for not turning the *** around if Spikes get put up and Dispel has yet to take them off.
[+]
 
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By Quetzalcoatl.Taberifx 2014-03-30 17:39:10
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Stun
ItemSet 321639
ItemSet 321911
Embrava(502 enhance)
ItemSet 321641
Enhancing
ItemSet 321640
Precast set
ItemSet 321629
SCH PDTIdle
ItemSet 321636
SCH RefreshIdle
ItemSet 321633
SCH RefreshIdle SUBLIMATION ACTIVE (Using RefreshIdle as a Base Set)
ItemSet 321638
HealPrecast (Using Precast as a Base Set)
ItemSet 321645
Heal(52% potency/ sacrilege-non weather setup I know...)
ItemSet 321632
Enfeeble
ItemSet 321659
will update this post with others later
still hashing out other sets for new 80/80 inventory
priority:stun>enhance/embrava>precast>nuke1-3>helix>heal>Enfeeble>nuke4-5>MDT/PDT

****let me know if you have any ideas to bounce back****
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By Bismarck.Snprphnx 2014-03-30 18:43:23
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There is a new earring, Andoaa Earring, with Enhancing Skill +5. Drops off the Bird Delve boss, so should be fairly easy to obtain.
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By Quetzalcoatl.Taberifx 2014-03-30 18:57:58
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I thought about that, absolutely would allow more of a less perfect augmented kirin's pole
I just already have the pole and ammo lol

*updated that set to reflect better possibility
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By Cerberus.Shadowmeld 2014-03-31 11:43:37
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Taberifx:

On stun set, wouldn't Nahtirah Hat be better on Alacrity and Academic's Feet without alacrity?

On enhancing set, would you prioritize Colossus Torque/Savant's Treatise over Kirin pole due to ease of obtaining (no gil investment) or the inventory +1 of Kirin Pole
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By Asura.Chefm 2014-03-31 19:23:33
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Anyone know a good Gearswap .lua or spellcast .xml ?
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By Quetzalcoatl.Taberifx 2014-03-31 21:50:10
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Cerberus.Shadowmeld said: »
Taberifx:

On stun set, wouldn't Nahtirah Hat be better on Alacrity and Academic's Feet without alacrity?

On enhancing set, would you prioritize Colossus Torque/Savant's Treatise over Kirin pole due to ease of obtaining (no gil investment) or the inventory +1 of Kirin Pole

Yes. and No on the Enhancing(You're using 2 pieces to replace 1 piece, but theres more than one way to skin a cat =/)
set's updated to reflect changes
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By Asura.Railbender 2014-04-01 09:32:23
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ItemSet 280256



Would Twebuliij or Ngqoqwanb beat out Apamajas II for stun set ?
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By Ragnarok.Jukiro 2014-04-01 09:39:18
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what about this Lehbrailg +2?
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By Pantafernando 2014-04-01 13:41:21
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Asura.Railbender said: »
ItemSet 280256



Would Twebuliij or Ngqoqwanb beat out Apamajas II for stun set ?

Youre comparing diferent kind of staves.

Apajamas ii is a speed staff. All the rest are macc staves.

Apajamas ii just has 70 macc. Its no match to every new staff pos adoulin.

But iirc apajamas ii is -16% recast time. That just would be achieved if you have 32% fast cast in a staff, what none have, and most likely never will.

So, when macc isnt an issue, but speed, no staff will beat apajamas. But when macc is an issue, and its for majority of situations, even a ilv105 staff should beat apajamas.
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By Asura.Railbender 2014-04-01 14:00:04
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Pantafernando said: »
Asura.Railbender said: »
ItemSet 280256



Would Twebuliij or Ngqoqwanb beat out Apamajas II for stun set ?

Youre comparing diferent kind of staves.

Apajamas ii is a speed staff. All the rest are macc staves.

Apajamas ii just has 70 macc. Its no match to every new staff pos adoulin.

But iirc apajamas ii is -16% recast time. That just would be achieved if you have 32% fast cast in a staff, what none have, and most likely never will.

So, when macc isnt an issue, but speed, no staff will beat apajamas. But when macc is an issue, and its for majority of situations, even a ilv105 staff should beat apajamas.

Thanks i'm just trying to gear sch for literally stun gun to help out ls with some things. So pretty much if i'm going for this set to be max -recast time i want to use Apajamas II ?
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By Pantafernando 2014-04-01 14:33:13
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Asura.Railbender said: »
Pantafernando said: »
Asura.Railbender said: »
ItemSet 280256



Would Twebuliij or Ngqoqwanb beat out Apamajas II for stun set ?

Youre comparing diferent kind of staves.

Apajamas ii is a speed staff. All the rest are macc staves.

Apajamas ii just has 70 macc. Its no match to every new staff pos adoulin.

But iirc apajamas ii is -16% recast time. That just would be achieved if you have 32% fast cast in a staff, what none have, and most likely never will.

So, when macc isnt an issue, but speed, no staff will beat apajamas. But when macc is an issue, and its for majority of situations, even a ilv105 staff should beat apajamas.

Thanks i'm just trying to gear sch for literally stun gun to help out ls with some things. So pretty much if i'm going for this set to be max -recast time i want to use Apajamas II ?

Well the set you posted is outdated. Taberifx posted some more updated ones.

About what you need, you must do some questions:

1. Are you in alliance or party situation? More specifically, do you have a second stunner, a geo and a mage brd? If you have those 3, you need very low recast, so i would just use a full macc set. A second sch mean an overall fast cast 100% if properly coordinated.

2. If youre in party situation with no geo, your dds are good enough? How long would take for then to beat the nm? If they can finish in 5 mins, i would emphatize fast cast and some macc. If they take 10 mins, i would have a macc set and high macc staff to swap after some time.

3. How is your recast? Test in a situation buffed. If your recast hit 8 secs, you can possible stun everything. If its higher, at some point your stun will be down when the nm uses a tp move, resulting in an tp move landed in dds. If thats the case, emphatize fast cast gear. If you hit 8 secs, just stack macc.

Remeber alacrity halves recast time, you have 5, plus some you will get till you use all, plus tabula rasa, 3 mins with infinite alacrities, and finally plus 5 stratagems plus an amount you will get in mean time. How long it last? That interval is the one you can possibly stun everything even with recast in gear above 8 secs. In that case, if your dd can finish in that interval, macc will do better to you than fast cast.

Finally, if nothing works, selecting tp moves is your only alternative to do a good job. Battlemod is your tool.
 Asura.Railbender
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By Asura.Railbender 2014-04-01 14:40:57
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I would be in a party situation, 2x march from brd and whm haste prob only. No second stunner, No GEO. DD's would be good enough. At least all 119 but for example, 2x Yoichi SAM, BLU, WHM, RDM, SCH, BRD for the Delve Bee say.

Would you have a set to suggest in that situation? I pretty much just posted the OP there on the main page, but im looking pretty much for advice here, never really played SCH. I will remember the key points though that if i'm at 8 sec to stack Macc, still be nice for the best one to shoot for though, if you don't mind.
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