[MATH] OAX, Multi-Attack, And You

NORMAL TP + Tizz 119:
QA 2
TA 29
DA 14


1 +3*(0.02) + 2*(1-0.02)*0.29 + (1-(0.02+0.29-(0.02*0.29))*0.14 + (1-0.02)*(1-0.29)*(1-0.14)*( 2*(0.4) + 2*(0.2))


3.3038776

for my Tizona BLU with QA / TA / DA set TP:D

^^/



(1 + 3*(0) + 2*(1-0)*0.12 + (1-(0+0.12-0*0.12))0.14) + (1-0)*(1-0.12)*(1-0.14)*( 2*(0.4) + 2*(0.2))

2.28816

With my Store TP set

A thread with such a title should intend to start a discussion.

Don't you mean "-and Kuro"?

Using yourself as an example is fine but you should explain the particular numbers you're using and why.

You're not in a position to be bragging considering you wanted to TP-AM3 in a level 85 body piece just yesterday.


Edit: hahaha @me not realizing this thread is 3 pages deep. Other points stand.

I skip everything Kuro write by default.

Guyz very serious question: is math real or is it just pretending?

Any math that involves cake as the example unit is always pretend.

Is your math accurate. In the case of DA 14 amd TA 29, are the 2 numbers mutually exclusive?

(Does 14% DA actually prevent TA from occurring 14% of the time?)

Should have cake for the five year necro.

No.

Other way around.

Which the actual OP covers, and though I've long forgotten I've read it specifically, is a good read.

Once I saw the uh, units of measure, I remembered reading it.

Disappointed I failed maths in college so I could understand this better. I got the basic gist though .. so thanks for taking the time and effort!

What's interesting to me is that in some cases OAX weapons can be made better or worse with multi-attacks, and I think if we could figure this out on weapons people are more likely to use it would really help.

What about Mythics? When do multi-attacks become a hindrance to Aftermath 3? Is it possible to increase the average attacks with multi-attacks? Obviously you want to stack Store TP at this point, but some pieces naturally get multi-attacks with the STP and there's no way around it .. so should we be aiming for a certain amount? Or none at all?

I only ask because I been told before (with no calculated information) that aftermaths are not so great due to diminishing returns.

I got what you mean but it took me a few readthroughs, and a pretty good laugh along the way.

"I wanna be an Architect!"
"I'm gonna be an accountant!"
"There's this post for a video game I play.."

As an accountant, I want to say that we rely more on calculators than math.

#10keyproblems

Do both numbers include AM3? You'll now have to figure in how much TP per hit and determine the benefits of not feeding enemy TP vs. the extra hits and white damage.

Mythic AM3 is 40% OA2 (hits+1) and 20% OA3 (hits+2). From this, you can say that AM3 adds an average +0.8 hits per round (1*0.4+2*0.2).

When QA/TA/DA conflict with AM3 (ie they did proc, while you're still rolling against AM3's chance to proc to determine whether or not they conflict), you can compare their gains in additional hits:

-QA is hits+3 to AM3's hits+0.8
-TA is hits+2 to AM3's hits+0.8
-DA is hits+1 to AM3's hits+0.8

So in all cases adding multiattack is beneficial for average hits/round even with mythic AM3, but they add comparatively less than they would to a weapon with a lower baseline multiattack rate.

Oftentimes the best gear is BIS regardless of mythic AM3 or no (or the difference in gearing is slight and potentially subject to variance based on buffs/other gear), plus there's traits, gifts, and buffs to consider, so that gets turned around and we end up with this:

Because the real question is now how much mythic aftermath can contribute in a meta where most DD jobs have very high baseline multihit rates.

For perspective, Tizona and Epeolatry AM3 boost BLU and RUN's respective average hits/round by roughly 20% in typical DD gear (net DPS gains are lower). Their multihits are distributed across a few different stats though (moderate levels of both TA and DA, perhaps a little QA), rather than having a very high level of just one stat. If you look at say, WAR... >75% DA unbuffed isn't uncommon now, meaning that AM3 only has the chance to proc on <25% of your swings. Conqueror's impact on your hits/round is very low in such a build, under 12%. Add in Fighter's Roll and/or a few extra pieces of DA gear and you could conceivably hit 100% DA, in which case AM3 adds precisely nothing during TP phase. DRK on the other hand has a relatively low multiattack rate, so Liberator's AM3 has a bit more appeal once it's up and running.

What the heck did I just start

MATH WIZARDS!

LOL

Was looking for Options and Sides, was thinking of Trials XD

Kill shot x400 is alot to do in 1 hr

Tizona is 90 (Arrapago 1/3 beat) gotta wait RL day before doing it again -.- unfair !

I see you keep saying AM3 but what about AM1 and AM2 ? (Not worth doing those?) just curious AM2 has longest Duration of all 3 and AM1 is odd......

Punched in some #s for AM1 AM3 (some reason Spreadsheet has no AM2)

here is the results:
AM 1
Set (QA TA DA) = 509,948
Set (Store TP) = 644,132

AM 3
Set (QA TA DA) = 549,025
Set (Store TP) = 538,120

NO AM
Set (QA TA DA) = 492.413
Set (Store TP) = 466,602

So right now more confused than before about AM1 AM2 AM3 ><

Mythics (and ergons) have different effects for each Aftermath tier and they aren't cummulative. Your Tizona, for example, has Accuracy+ for AM1, Magic Accuracy+ for AM2 and OAT(T) for AM3. Your spreadsheet has no AM2 because MAcc is irrelevant to melee damage.

Ok, now I understand why some don't appreciate Vajra and Conqueror as much for their respective jobs as they're loaded with DA and TA. Usually I'm DRK/SAM so there's no issues.

/WAR I only used in high buff content (like Voidwatch back in the day), and in such situations it's nice to have AM3 but it's not going to add as many overall hits due to the DA increase and lack of OAX return. I can see how having a main job Warrior with too much Double Attack could stop the Occasionally Attacks Thrice from happening due to how multi-attacks are calculated beforehand.

Sorry for all the questions but I'm curious. DRK/SAM with just a GEO (perhaps vorseals too) could stack as much DA/TA/QA (without sacrificing the hit build of course!) and it would help AM3 TP flow? Whereas if my friend .. who has a Conqueror, if he scaled back on multi-attacks would it help overall?

Edit: When I think about this more, I think about Double Attack and how detrimental it can be. Quad attack is fine as you're always going to get that extra hit and sometimes two. Triple Attack isn't too bad as it stops Occassionally Attacks Twice .. but Double Attack is stopping thrice.

On jobs like Warrior and Thief who specifically get boosts from DA and TA find they lose out during aftermath as OAX do not count as DA or TA. As for other jobs like DRK I still think having any DA during AM3 is a bad idea, but TA and QA should be encouraged. Is that right? Please correct me if I'm not.

100% DA = swings+1 every time = 2 swings/round

AM3 = 40% OA2 20% OA3 = swings+0.8 average = 1.8 swings/round

These numbers should look familiar from the top of my previous post. You would be be correct if AM3 procced on every swing (or at least often enough to increase average swings/round by >1), but that's not how mythic AM3 works.

I really should leave this thread as it makes me feel dumb lol .. I get it now and won't be too worried about having multi-attack even if it's DA. Thanks.

oh :O wow that is something good to know

so
AM 1 = ACC+
AM 2 = M.ACC+
AM 3 = OAT(T)

in other words OAT only active during AM 3 ? (that explains alot then, would make sense too)

I thought they all had OAT just at shorter amounts of time........ >.< Ouch.

Kuro it is explained here with all the varying stats >> Mythic Aftermath

This has been a productive FFXI class .. we should hold these more often!

Is there anything useful we can get out of the spreadsheet other than testing formulas? Perhaps to see if different variations of multi-attack (as part of a gear set) end with more/less average hits per round?

HIPSTER DOGGO HAS GONE MISSING

WHERE IS HE D:

what?

The hipster dog images in the theorems are broken.