[MATH] OAX, Multi-Attack, And You

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[MATH] OAX, Multi-Attack, and You
 Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-06-26 17:03:40
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Quetzalcoatl.Diasetsu said: »
Not to be nit-picky over such a small number difference, but your kraken club dual wielding numbers are slighty off. No other multi-attack involved should be 4.8 not 4.82, and with 5% DA should be 4.758(4.757625), not 4.779. You are not accounting for the 8 attacks per round limit.
It's never nitpicking when it comes to math. Will adjust in a bit.
 Phoenix.Kirana
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By Phoenix.Kirana 2012-06-26 17:13:21
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When are we going to start doing calculus?
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 Cerberus.Detzu
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By Cerberus.Detzu 2012-06-26 17:24:36
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Wow i'm gonna study math again... and in english you really hate me!!

Great work though.
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By Solrain 2012-06-26 18:09:10
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This is awesome. The only thing I don't really like about this is that hipster dogs are way too mainstream - I'd use flamingos or Argentinian Water Chinchilla next time.
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 Bismarck.Highlordkitiara
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By Bismarck.Highlordkitiara 2012-06-26 18:36:49
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This is really great work Sylow, it's good to know my estimates weren't that far off ^.^;

Asura.Josiahfk said: »
So right now if I'm on thief Sylow and I use assassin's charge on a justice sword + dual wielding I can get triple attack proc + double attack proc in the main hand, triple attack proc in the offhand ?

and swing 7 times in that round with no quad attack gear?

Yes. Well, if it works like Faith Baghnakhs. Each attack from a sea weapon is calculated as an individual attack, so effectively a monk with Faith Baghnakhs could have a natural 4atk/round and each attack can DA/TA/QA. There is still an 8 attack/round cap, though.
 
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By 2012-06-26 18:47:23
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 Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-06-26 21:26:14
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Jesus christ, the formulas when dual-wielding with kclub and multi-atack are difficult to conceptualize '~'

Just a lot of exclusion x_x
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 Quetzalcoatl.Diasetsu
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By Quetzalcoatl.Diasetsu 2012-06-26 22:27:00
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Yeah, fortunately the only time the formula you posted doesn't work is when you would surpass 8 attacks. As far as I know this only can occur as of now when dual wielding Kraken Club, limited H2H situations, some virtue weapon instances, and perhaps some NIN Empyrian set bonus situations. I just math them all out the long way using a spread sheet with 1attack+1attack, 1attack+2attacks, etc, etc. If you manage to come up with a nice plug and play formula to do otherwise, it would be sweet though.
 
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 Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-06-26 23:06:57
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Well, I more mean like
It's just a pain to write an explicit formula.
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 Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-06-26 23:55:28
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Quetzalcoatl.Diasetsu said: »
Yeah, fortunately the only time the formula you posted doesn't work is when you would surpass 8 attacks. As far as I know this only can occur as of now when dual wielding Kraken Club, limited H2H situations, some virtue weapon instances, and perhaps some NIN Empyrian set bonus situations. I just math them all out the long way using a spread sheet with 1attack+1attack, 1attack+2attacks, etc, etc. If you manage to come up with a nice plug and play formula to do otherwise, it would be sweet though.

I will come up with the formula, it just won't be nice.
 Shiva.Keyera
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By Shiva.Keyera 2012-06-26 23:56:55
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Will read over this again tomorrow, saw this as I was browsing the interwebz while trying to get sleepy and your math did just the trick!(I love math, but not at 1 AM)

Thanks for this awesome post!!!
 Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-06-27 00:05:23
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A_d = A - Q(4R(8) + 3R(7) + 2R(6) + R(5)) - T( 3R(8) + 2R(7) + R(6)) - D(2R(8) + R(7)) - R(8)

R(8) = 0.02
R(7) = 0.03
R(6) = 0.1
R(5) = 0.15


A_d = A - (0.52Q + 0.22T + 0.07D + 0.02)
 Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-06-27 00:11:04
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Average Attacks per Round when Dual Wielding with Kraken Club

A = 2(1 + 3Q + 2(1-Q)T + (1-(Q+T-QT))D) + (A_k-1)(1-Q)(1-T)(1-D) - (0.52Q + 0.22T + 0.07D + 0.02)

So for no multi-attack we get

A = 4.82 - 0.02 = 4.8

Adding in only Double Attack 5% from Brutal Earring:

2(1 + 0.05) + (2.82)(0.95) - 0.07*0.05 - 0.02 = 4.7555

Unless I've done arithmetic wrong somewhere, which is possible.
 Quetzalcoatl.Diasetsu
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By Quetzalcoatl.Diasetsu 2012-06-27 03:25:21
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I believe it's actually
A= 2(1 + 3Q + 2(1-Q)T + (1-(Q+T-QT))D) + (A_k-1)(1-Q)(1-T)(1-D) - (1-Q)(1-T)(1-D)(0.52Q + 0.22(1-Q)T + 0.07(1-(Q+T-QT))D + 0.02(1-Q)(1-T)(1-D))

No multi= 4.82 - 0.02= 4.8

5% DA= 2(1 + 0.05) + (2.82)((0.95) - (0.95)((0.07)(0.05)+(0.02)(0.95))
= (2 + 0.1) + (2.679) - (0.95)(0.0035 + .019)= 4.779 - (0.95)(0.0225)
= 4.779 - 0.021375= 4.757625
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 Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-06-27 11:22:38
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Of course, look at me making the mistakes I told people not to make! :D

This is why you don't derive mathematical formulas while doing Voidwatch on a sleep deficit.
 Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-06-27 13:45:29
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Yeah, I get the same when I simplify everything :)

Quote:
Formula 5.2 Average Attacks Per Round when Dual Wielding with a Kraken Club Offhand

A = 2(1 + 3Q + 2(1-Q)T + (1-(Q+T-QT))D) + (1-Q)(1-T)(1-D)[2.82 - (0.52Q + 0.22(1-Q)T + 0.07(1-(Q+T-QT))D + 0.02(1-Q)(1-T)(1-D))]

It's a little terrifying.
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 Bismarck.Cicada
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By Bismarck.Cicada 2012-06-27 13:46:00
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Link doesn't work Sybear :(

Never mind!
 Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-06-27 13:46:23
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It's because it had a ] in it.
 Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-06-27 13:59:51
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It doesn't matter though, wolfram alpha isn't handling the full brunt of the formula, so I'm going to have to find a way around that for the next section of the thread~
 Lakshmi.Chirajito
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By Lakshmi.Chirajito 2012-06-27 14:03:16
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Lol nice
 Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-06-28 15:53:41
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Spreadsheet incorporating all the formulae in this thread.
 Phoenix.Sehachan
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By Phoenix.Sehachan 2012-07-01 08:31:51
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Should request a sticky or this guide will end up being lost in the pages!
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 Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-07-18 12:48:43
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Phoenix.Sehachan said: »
Should request a sticky or this guide will end up being lost in the pages!

I have no idea how to do that!
 Siren.Kalilla
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By Siren.Kalilla 2012-07-18 12:50:08
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Send a PM to a mod, so Alyria when she is online.
necroskull Necro Bump Detected! [52 days between previous and next post]
 Phoenix.Sehachan
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By Phoenix.Sehachan 2012-09-08 06:25:48
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Can we sticky? I wanted to link this to someone and it took me a while to find it! x_x

Actually we should make a whole new section for guides. But I digress.
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 Siren.Kalilla
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By Siren.Kalilla 2012-09-08 08:20:12
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Phoenix.Sehachan said: »
Can we sticky? I wanted to link this to someone and it took me a while to find it! x_x

Actually we should make a whole new section for guides. But I digress.
I've asked Scragg about a section for guides before actually since there have been a lot more popping up lately.

I agree this should be stickied though.
 Caitsith.Heimdall
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By Caitsith.Heimdall 2012-09-08 09:26:22
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A way to bookmark favorite threads on site would actually be a nice feature. Maybe even a way to save specific post that have information you want to access repeatedly. I know When I save to my computer I tend lose track of them specially when start getting multiple ones.
 Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-10-05 19:19:44
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Added ... Mythics to the spreadsheet.
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 Asura.Bitesized
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By Asura.Bitesized 2012-10-05 20:49:05
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[MATH][READING] OAX, Multi-Attack, and You.

Thread name needs changed. I'm way to drunk to read all this.
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