[Dev] Final Limit Break Quest

Replace "Maat" with "G5" and the point carries, your pedantry adds nothing to this discussion.

I would love to have the chance to beat the absolute ***out of mayakov, he was so annoying and I could not understand a single sentence that spoke out of his mouth :\

<thigh>... tho mithguided. Everyone ith alwayth picking on me. I thwear to the Goddeth I wath born thith way!

why is the dichotomy between what's easy and what's hard decided by whether or not it's possible? doesn't that really mean everything is either easy or impossible?

that's always struck me as odd. I mean, anything that's possible can with enough preparation and practice be performed with a consistency that makes it look astoundingly easy, like, let's say juggling. I don't really know how to do it. if I throw 3 balls up in the air, one time in 20 I might be able to get a rotation going for a split second before it all comes falling down, but that's hardly enough consistency to call it easy, at least not for me

when I think about everything I've ever done in this game, I can only think of one single thing that I think was hard and the only reason for thinking so is because, despite trying some 20 times I never managed to pull it off (for the record, I was trying to solo the rank 5-1 bones BC as WHM), though I got close enough that I believed it was possible. everything else, mostly things I've done, I look back and say "that was easy" simply because I did them

this game, after all, just isn't of the difficult variety. it doesn't require honing motor skills, hand-eye coordination, precision or timing of say, something in the FPS genre. the biggest challenge in this game really comes from knowing your opponent, and if you know every trick up his sleeve, there's really nothing left but following through with the motions

in that sense, I don't think it's possible for them to create an experience that anyone will regard as challenging. you'd have to handicap yourself by not going to wikipedia. Dare I say, enter the BC without knowing what's in there. blasphemy, I know. I'm done.

Prossescar, is that you?

I too, would love to beat the ***out of Mayakov. :|

simply for me

we fight the true legends at our particular job

rdm ; bad luck you fight avesta :P
blm : you fight shantotto
sam : you fight tenzen
dnc : you fight the dude with the lishp

all i can think of atm lol but to me its better than a party fight tbh a party fight seems weird and restrictive it should be more what you have learned/need to know how to do this well before you can pass kinda fight instead of get some buds go smash it.

or possibly a real doppledanger with full subjob skills and double hp

"not as tough as the maat fight"....samurai maat fight was my 1st maat fight, took like 60 seconds....any easier than that and they may as well give it away

I'm cool with Avesta coming out of retirement to pvp him... that would be epic...

this time the fight would be another thing than sleep 300 tp full ws and skillchain

for example some directions it could take for sam versus tenzen or noillurie

- had to use the good ws and the proper additional effet of gekko / kasha / yuki or ageha at a proper timing
- had to switch beetween hasso and seigan and use third eye to anticipate a certain attack
- had to blade bash a certain attack
- had to do a specific skillchain on a certain condition
- counter a certain ws by another ws
- use of massive medecines and food stock to survive
etc etc
- maybe had to use a bow or polearm at a certain point in the fight
- need of well geared character and full skill ( g-katana / evasion / parryng etc ...) to survive the fight

in fact a scripted fight where u have to use your tp and ja wisely
and to prepare your job at his maximum potential : the true last and individual fight of your FFXI carrieer

what the *** avesta is a chick?

Unfortunatly when I did my Maat fight I was axe/axe warrior onry. Didn't even have GAXE leveled.

Went 1/3 axe/shield though.

sam's never had to sleep tp, meditate>food>run in, couple its for 200 tp, sekkanoki, 2x ws, 2hr, 3x ws...if he's not dead by then u prolly have meditate up to do again...fyi at lvl 69 with uncapped skills, but with highest dmg GK for the lvl, and premo gear for the lvl(namioyogi) maat went down with the dmg from the 3rd ws and skillchain, sam's have it easy...thf is even easier if you have great steal gear and a lot of luck, successful steal =autowin, just like 2 step tier 3 sc is a autowin (for all jobs??)...even rdm wasn't a hard maat fight if you know how to play the job well and had capped skills for the level...

anyway, 99cap>maat fight or I think a lot of players will straight up lose interest in the game, used to be hard to do some stuff, now (and over the last 2-3 years)everything is lowman or can be zombied by army of nooblets controlled and/or directed by a couple good players...SE needs to cater to the expereienced, highly skilled players in the game, because those are the only people that will be left when all the new folks go away, honestly if you haven't been playing this game for at least a year or 2 by now, i don't see you playing it until the servers are dumped by SE...I personally would like to see the 99 cap be so hard that it takes good players with relics/emps/mythics a few tries to do it, so that the other players that haven't really earned much in the game have to really put some work into it.

Um so you want to say that the current fight is too easy and people will quit because the reach lvl 99 by a too easy fight and you want the battle to be so hard that you need a perfect job setup with all maxed gear with relic etc to win?
I think people would lose interest and quit if the fight is so hard that you need relic/empy etc to win instead of quit because the fight is "too easy"

i know all of this well i did maat cap in 2007 @ lvl 66 and it was easy as hell. when i said : " sleep 300 tp full ws and skillchain " i mean the main strategy for DDs not specially for sam ( by the way dont forget when maat fight was released sam didnt have sekkanoki nor acces to hasso or the update on 2 hands dmg, nor merit nor great gears : but anyway it was one of easiest fight)

we have the same opinion when you said the game need challenge. thats the reason why i suggest this final job fight versus a hero @ lvl 99. i agree this fight would need skill of your job ( thats the reason why i put a list and example with sam of what the fight could be)
my view on this kind of fight :

1) you'll need good gears, medecines and skill maxed out : so only hardcore gamers and guys who have "pushed to the edge job" ( as relic/mythic/empy and collector of good gears) will have an advantage : but it's ok they devoted their play time on this job

2) you'll need to perfectly play your job cause the fight would be scripted and forced you to do ja / spell / ws /skillchain with perfect timing and knowledge of your job ( so also good players will have a edge on this fight not only based on "gear" : i know a lot of relic/empi/mythic owners who doesnt know a ***of their job): only skilled people will manage this fight

so a mix of 1) and 2) would be a pure win and bring some challenge and true achievement for everyone on their favourite job

the greatest achievement would be to finish this task with the 20 jobs !


that's the reason why i think they should stay on a easy last genkai for the "mass" as they intend to do
but add this last battle i suggested for 99 and hardcores gamers who want to test their limit of their favorite job ( with great job reward at the end of course : new ja or job specific piece of gear)and a kind of mega achievement : maat cap II if you manage to do the 20 jobs fights

[quote='Leviathan.Thania]
that's the reason why i think they should stay on a easy last genkai for the "mass"
but add this last battle i suggested for 99 and harcores gamers who want to test their limit of their favorite job ( with great job reward at the end of course : new ja or job specific piece of gear)[/quote]

I think you have to do a quest before you can unlock the new ws merits, maybe they make a maat v2 quest for each job to unlock the new merits for the job

actually on the test server you only need to give 15 merit points to the mog nomad and he will give you heart of bushin KI and unlock the merit menu to buy ws

My point was that the people that would quit from the fight being too hard, will quit anyway at some point, whereas the people with relics/mythics/emps, or with a buttload of time invested into the game already, e.g. 100 days+ of play time, or something like that, are never going to quit lol, those people don't cancel accounts because of game changes, they cancel accounts because they get canceled, or some major life change happens where they can't afford to play. So you may cater to those people from the start, hell SE has said they know the hardcore gamers are the core player base for ffxi, they ppl that never quit, even when they can't beat AV or PW for a year... and yet they still make new content that is almost 100% based on pissing off old players...granted I've been a lot happier with some of the changes they've made recently vs a year or 2 ago, but still, easier lb99 vs harder lb99 will really piss the hardcore gamers off at the game in general, and you would think they would be the ones you want to keep...o well i guess, everyone can just play wow 2.0, aka ffxi and solo/duo everything, burn all jobs to 99, spam emps and relics in 2 weeks, and not have to party at all...the reason I play ffxi is because it forces (or used to) people to work together for nearly 100% of the game, whereas WoW you could lvl to 70 or w/e the cap was in like a week from starting the game, and have baller a$$ gear to boot...good luck doing that in ffxi without a pl team and a pre-existing char.

LoL at S-E development actually caring about congestion in a zone.

Where was that when you opened up Whitegate?
Where is that now with regard to Port Jeuno?
Where was that when you introduced "adventuring fellows" in Upper Jeuno?
Where was that when you opened up Fiat Lux and only allowed 3(I think?) parties to enter the arena at once?
Where is that while you *still* have not made Limbus into an instanced event?

Laughable.

Here's S-E's grand solution!!: Make everyone farm an otherwise useless item from otherwise useless mobs to be able to enter the battlefield for level 96 limit break.

Brilliant!!

So, instead of congestion in Qu'Bia Arena, we can have congestion in BOTH Qu'Bia Arena and whatever zone(s) house the mobs that drop the coveted otherwise-useless item!!

Here's a better alternative: divide the jobs classes into 4 groups of 5, and assign the level 96 break quest battle for each grouping to a different arena.

Examples (totally hypothetical): WAR, RDM, RNG, BLU, DNC @ Waughroon; MNK, BLM, PLD, DRK, COR @ Qu'Bia; THF, WHM, NIN, DRG, PUP @ Horlais; SAM, BST, BRD, SMN, SCH @ Giddeus.

That doesn't take into account that the battlefield is 6-man.

The issue with assigning jobs to specific BC zones for this, would be that this is a team battle.

So either people who can't get their LB clear in that zone have to go along so the group can actually win. Or you'd have to go with a poorly balanced group likely to fail.

I think it'd be best to just use multiple BC zones for the fight. Preferably lots of different zones. Sure, people will generally head for the closest zone first. But when they get there and see 40 people there, they have the Option to go elsewhere. And they may put a little more thought into which zones are likely to be less crowded at that point.

Run in, aggros with Stonega, 2500 damage.

GAME OVEN

Idk what a Game oven is but I sure as hell hope there's brownies in it. :D

Where did I say anything about those fights actually being hard? Raubahn can two-shot you if he's in a bad mood, and there's not much you can do about it if you opted to take the melee approach. If your strategy for Gunther involves nuking the Crimson Grimoire you are entirely at the mercy of the RNG, as an absorption of your first nuke pretty much guarantees a loss. There are alternative strategies with varying levels of success, but I think you get my point. Cheap shots don't make a fight hard, just frustrating.

Am I to understand that your perception of difficulty is based on your ability to accomplish a task? Interesting, and flawed... I've done things I consider difficult, and thought no less of the task for my success.

You lack creativity. Also, after one round you should have enough understanding of any of the fights to create a plan so wiki really isn't necessary. I never said you should be able to waltz in and 1/1 every fight.

Such anger :P

I don't think it's just my perception. The general "if you can't do it you suck" attitude seems to imply if it can be done, it's easy. I actually posed the same question to you, based on your comment on the ease of the Maat BCs:
I didn't say you said any of the fights were hard. My main issue with this thread is actually people complaining about things being too easy.

So I got to wondering if anything can even be hard if we assume adequate preparation, and write off any random nature/unpredictability of the fight as "frustrating cheap shots" instead of a measure of difficulty. In this scenario, what's "challenging", if it exists at all, is an extremely brief shade between "easy" and "impossible" which really functions as no more than a border between the two.

Like my juggling example, anything that's predictable, however difficult, can be mastered to a consistency that it would have to be called easy, at least for said person. As long as they "don't suck" anyway, right?

Surely after a round or two, a proper strategy can be determined even by someone who hasn't yet looked it up online, but if determining a strategy is the only remotely difficult part of the fight, why rob yourself of that and proceed to turn around and complain about how easy it is? I don't know.

As for really making things more difficult, I hadn't put much thought into it. Perhaps I'm not creative, or perhaps I just don't care. It was more a thought experiment that accepted the premise of the only challenging facet of the game being the unknown. I'd work with this and probably make fights that simply had unpredictable AI, but people like you would just call them cheap shots and frustrating instead of challenging. I'm not saying I disagree with you, in fact I agree, it's called a cheap shot for a reason.

I'm at a loss. I can only agree with everyone in this thread that this game is simply too easy; it's one of the reasons I quit. Not only, but it keeps getting even easier. What would you do to make it more challenging without simply being more time consuming/frustrating/cheap?

Reintroduce a competitive element to 99 End game. DI/SW type HNM that reduce the douchebagginess of bots, and 3rd party tools. Competing for those targets was fun. It gave players a purpose. Make the NM's extremely difficult once caught.

Revamp PvP in a central hub (White Gate) Nothing PvE will ever give you the thrill PvP will. Period. No program can think out of the box the way another live player can.

Continue the Easy mode as well for the people who want it. Abyssea, VW chapter 3,4, and beyond. There are two types of players. Hard core, and casual. There is no reason both should not be catered to. Revamping old content is cool. However it is far from difficult, and not satisfying the demand for people who want a challenge.

I agree to an extent. Making a pop "hard to get" doesn't make it hard. It's annoying. Even if the mob is actually hard you're talking about two different elements.

I'd like to see mobs that don't require sitting in an area for hours w/no fun but are really hard. I mean really hard. With great rewards. Something that, if you want it, you'll need to really work for.

The problem with that scenario is that anything that hard will require a PLD with Aegis/Ochain. Which is something that SE and players don't want: to limit a scenario to one tank, one healer, etc. While the current content has PREFERRED jobs it can be done with many job combinations.

/ramble I have no idea what I'm talking about.