Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »
i beg to differ, perhaps you dont idle in a DT- set or what have you
Of course he does, lol.
I'm going to say this depends on race/merits whether or not you survive. I usually do not unless it's a magical attack. :x
"BLM Frame Can't Out Nuke A Real BLM"
"BLM frame can't out nuke a real BLM"
Of course he does, lol.
I'm going to say this depends on race/merits whether or not you survive. I usually do not unless it's a magical attack. :x
sch category 2... 5/5 stormsurge and i did 5/5 focalization...it does help honestly with a lot of crap lol
Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »
Lakshmi.Emanuelle said: »
Leviathan.Dodu said: »
Enmity is the sole limiting factor when it comes to non-pet damage. As far as damage boosts go, Enmity Douse is an immense difference(~8,000 damage every 10 minutes that a SCH, for instance, couldn't have dealt). And tank CE is hardly ever capped in VW, so no, its not as simple as them swinging again to get hate back.
If you disagree with its benefits, explain why, but if you're just going to *** because I'm bringing it up as a benefit, then please, use the door.
Edit: If you need to look at it from a different angle to understand why its so powerful, consider the following. A SMN, who's primary benefit is controllable damage for virtually no enmity, is looking at ~13,000 damage/10 minutes against higher level targets. That's assuming capped BP reduction timers, absolutely no resists, and perfect BP initiation(anyone who's played SMN in VW has probably had their avatar killed during/right before they were about to BP, which delays the process by ~5-10 seconds, or resets the timer altogether). Enmity Douse alone provides an additional ~8,000 damage/minute from CE removal. That's in the neighborhood of 60% of a SMN's total damage output in addition to what they'd generally be capable of doing within the confines of their enmity threshold. If that's not significant enough for you, then you must think the entire summoner job is a complete joke for any and all fights.
Edit2.0: And your logic is pretty frail. Complaining about my being monomaniacal in regard to Douse is pretty silly based on how this game works. Its akin to complaining about someone continually using Ukonvasura as a means to justifying a statement about WAR's output. If its a major contributing factor, I'd be pretty foolish to not mention it when comparing jobs.
If you disagree with its benefits, explain why, but if you're just going to *** because I'm bringing it up as a benefit, then please, use the door.
Edit: If you need to look at it from a different angle to understand why its so powerful, consider the following. A SMN, who's primary benefit is controllable damage for virtually no enmity, is looking at ~13,000 damage/10 minutes against higher level targets. That's assuming capped BP reduction timers, absolutely no resists, and perfect BP initiation(anyone who's played SMN in VW has probably had their avatar killed during/right before they were about to BP, which delays the process by ~5-10 seconds, or resets the timer altogether). Enmity Douse alone provides an additional ~8,000 damage/minute from CE removal. That's in the neighborhood of 60% of a SMN's total damage output in addition to what they'd generally be capable of doing within the confines of their enmity threshold. If that's not significant enough for you, then you must think the entire summoner job is a complete joke for any and all fights.
Edit2.0: And your logic is pretty frail. Complaining about my being monomaniacal in regard to Douse is pretty silly based on how this game works. Its akin to complaining about someone continually using Ukonvasura as a means to justifying a statement about WAR's output. If its a major contributing factor, I'd be pretty foolish to not mention it when comparing jobs.
Odin.Eikechi said: »
sch category 2... 5/5 stormsurge and i did 5/5 focalization...it does help honestly with a lot of crap lol
Correct merits are 5/5 Stormsurge, 5/5 Enlightenment. :x
[+]
Higher tier VWNM output isn't black and white. Ballistic Kick will probably one-shot you, and even an Aeroja from Kaggen is still going to put a dent in a prepared mage. Coupled with a melee attack shortly after, and its not that far fetched to assume an imminent death. The damage sustained by even good quality tanks is a large contributing factor. Keeping people alive is fairly easy, but the fact that they're taking such large amounts of damage on a semi-regular basis does terrible things to their ability to maintain capped CE. That means that getting things' attention back immediately isn't always realistic, and 2-3 seconds of attention on a mage and/or group of mages can end badly, quickly.
Is that a MB'd helic? I may be out of the loop, but from what I remember they still aren't spectacular.
I don't think one's ability to self-remedy damage sustained is a relevant benefit. Even two WHM healing an entire alliance of melee getting the ***kicked out of them are going to be swimming in MP. I rarely use anything outside of Cure5/6 in large group settings, and never have sustenance issues.
And, alright, my apologies about that.
Is that a MB'd helic? I may be out of the loop, but from what I remember they still aren't spectacular.
I don't think one's ability to self-remedy damage sustained is a relevant benefit. Even two WHM healing an entire alliance of melee getting the ***kicked out of them are going to be swimming in MP. I rarely use anything outside of Cure5/6 in large group settings, and never have sustenance issues.
And, alright, my apologies about that.
Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »
emanuelle, you're ok and all sometimes, but there are times where you should not post.
[+]
Fenrir.Niniann said: »
Odin.Eikechi said: »
sch category 2... 5/5 stormsurge and i did 5/5 focalization...it does help honestly with a lot of crap lol
Correct merits are 5/5 Stormsurge, 5/5 Enlightenment. :x
shoot idk...i have the merits to change it over (i have like 18 or something) and merits aren't hard to get..but really? enlightenment?
Leviathan.Dodu said: »
I don't think one's ability to self-remedy damage sustained is a relevant benefit. Even two WHM healing an entire alliance of melee getting the ***kicked out of them are going to be swimming in MP. I rarely use anything outside of Cure5/6 in large group settings, and never have sustenance issues.
I still wouldn't exactly consider it a relevant benefit, but WHMs aren't going to be like ZOMG THE BLM/SCH IS DYING and immediately cure them(depending on what's going on). WHM is still limited by timers(even if they're not horrible timers), and tanks and DDs are constantly taking damage. Plus if the SCH pulls hate chances are it's hurting more people than just the SCH, so as a WHM I'd be like *** them let them die and cure other people first. Maybe I'm just an *** though. >____>;
They'd probably still die anyway, regardless of their ability to cure themselves. :(
[+]
Fenrir.Niniann said: »
Leviathan.Dodu said: »
I don't think one's ability to self-remedy damage sustained is a relevant benefit. Even two WHM healing an entire alliance of melee getting the ***kicked out of them are going to be swimming in MP. I rarely use anything outside of Cure5/6 in large group settings, and never have sustenance issues.
I still wouldn't exactly consider it a relevant benefit, but WHMs aren't going to be like ZOMG THE BLM/SCH IS DYING and immediately cure them(depending on what's going on). WHM is still limited by timers(even if they're not horrible timers), and tanks and DDs are constantly taking damage. Plus if the SCH pulls hate chances are it's hurting more people than just the SCH, so as a WHM I'd be like *** them let them die and cure other people first. Maybe I'm just an *** though. >____>;
They'd probably still die anyway, regardless of their ability to cure themselves. :(
I'd probably agree pre-Solace, but dropping a Cure6 on the tank gives ample time to patch up an entire party of mages in my experience. This becomes even truer if I ever decide to buy Curaga5.
Odin.Eikechi said: »
shoot idk...i have the merits to change it over (i have like 18 or something) and merits aren't hard to get..but really? enlightenment?
Yeah, it's like the single most useful thing ever really. In Light Arts/Addendum: White curing peoples and you need to sleep something? BAM. There's lots of these types of situations, and not having the ability means death.
what spell/situation do you most use with enlightenment? cuz i think tis only every 5m at max merits
This thread should be renamed to
SCH vs BLM - Yes, again.
SCH vs BLM - Yes, again.
Leviathan.Dodu said: »
I'd probably agree pre-Solace, but dropping a Cure6 on the tank gives ample time to patch up an entire party of mages in my experience. This becomes even truer if I ever decide to buy Curaga5.
I suppose, it depends on the situation. I hardly ever kill people but if they're getting knocked that fast, idk. CuragaV is *** and needs to not be so expensive. :|
perhaps ill look into it more then..idk.. /rdm gets dispel and sleep 1 so idk >_<
Fenrir.Niniann said: »
Odin.Eikechi said: »
shoot idk...i have the merits to change it over (i have like 18 or something) and merits aren't hard to get..but really? enlightenment?
Yeah, it's like the single most useful thing ever really. In Light Arts/Addendum: White curing peoples and you need to sleep something? BAM. There's lots of these types of situations, and not having the ability means death.
Aren't you usually /RDM though? Maybe I'm biased, but I don't feel like any SCH merit is defensively significant to ignore the only one that really has the potential to increase your global damage.
PUP obv.
Odin.Eikechi said: »
what spell/situation do you most use with enlightenment? cuz i think tis only every 5m at max merits
I gave a situational example, but Dispel, Sleep II, Break, -nas would be the most frequent uses. All of which are needed in a pinch.
Phoenix.Pooman said: »
This thread should be renamed to
SCH vs BLM - Yes, again.
SCH vs BLM - Yes, again.
I don't have the appendages required to count how many times I've seen someone complain about a completely useless thread developing into intelligent conversation.
in addmendum black for T4/5 spells and need to use some kind of light magic, reapply protect or cure or regen or w/e and are using all your strategems on nuking, in add light need to dispel or sleep etc etc etc there have been so many situations and 5 min cooldown isn't horribly bad, i wish it was shorter but that would prolly be very OP lol
you dont go /rdm on sch? (god massive derail sorry..maybe i'll take it to PMs when i get back from work lol gotta jet now though)
Leviathan.Dodu said: »
Aren't you usually /RDM though? Maybe I'm biased, but I don't feel like any SCH merit is defensively significant to ignore the only one that really has the potential to increase your global damage.
It'd depend on what you're doing. /WHM is nice for haste if you for some reason don't have a WHM or RDM. If you ONLY use it for nuking in Voidwatch, I guess you could merit Equanimity...? But I don't even think it's worth the strategems ever though, even in that situation. If you can somehow prove otherwise I'll take back what I said though, I just can't picture it.
Fenrir.Niniann said: »
Odin.Eikechi said: »
what spell/situation do you most use with enlightenment? cuz i think tis only every 5m at max merits
I gave a situational example, but Dispel, Sleep II, Break, -nas would be the most frequent uses. All of which are needed in a pinch.
Hate to be that guy, but if you're in any position where you foresee optimized curing and dispelling and/or crowd control being relevant, why not just go RDM? Its not as if RDM is in any way a bad magical DD right now. Hell, if it weren't for enmity douse, I would only go RDM/DRG for any lowman VWNM.
Leviathan.Dodu said: »
Fenrir.Niniann said: »
Odin.Eikechi said: »
shoot idk...i have the merits to change it over (i have like 18 or something) and merits aren't hard to get..but really? enlightenment?
Yeah, it's like the single most useful thing ever really. In Light Arts/Addendum: White curing peoples and you need to sleep something? BAM. There's lots of these types of situations, and not having the ability means death.
Aren't you usually /RDM though? Maybe I'm biased, but I don't feel like any SCH merit is defensively significant to ignore the only one that really has the potential to increase your global damage.
i'm not the one that gets topic banned daily for trolling/bashing and putting non-sense posts/putting everyone down on every single forum thread.
Fenrir.Niniann said: »
Leviathan.Dodu said: »
Aren't you usually /RDM though? Maybe I'm biased, but I don't feel like any SCH merit is defensively significant to ignore the only one that really has the potential to increase your global damage.
It'd depend on what you're doing. /WHM is nice for haste if you for some reason don't have a WHM or RDM. If you ONLY use it for nuking in Voidwatch, I guess you could merit Equanimity...? But I don't even think it's worth the strategems ever though, even in that situation. If you can somehow prove otherwise I'll take back what I said though, I just can't picture it.
You've nothing to prove. I haven't examined SCH's merit options nearly enough to be making definitive statements about them. Just briefly speculating based on a quick review of Wiki.
Leviathan.Dodu said: »
Hate to be that guy, but if you're in any position where you foresee optimized curing and dispelling and/or crowd control being relevant, why not just go RDM? Its not as if RDM is in any way a bad magical DD right now. Hell, if it weren't for enmity douse, I would only go RDM/DRG for any lowman VWNM.
Well... yes. This could be then expanded into why be SCH ever... which is one of the reasons why I haven't geared it. :x
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